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Although I'll never be able to afford one I can't help looking at automatic weapons for sale on the net. A MAC10 goes for around $5,000 and HK MP5s and Colt M16s are roughly $20,000. My question is how much did they cost before the ban and were they readily available? Also, if there was no ban and none on the horizon how much would they, and others,  cost today?

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IIRC M16s could be had for between 1 and 2K in 80'. Today if there were no restrictions of any kind on MGs and they were treated like any other firearm, M16s would cost the same as an AR.

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the jump in price has been relatively recent

in 86 they brought maybe  a 10% premium over their semi auto counterparts

pre internet 90s they still only brought 2x what a semi was worth

In my humble  opinion the internet really drove the  prices

it used to be you pretty much had to know someone to get started in the C3 stuff
the business was very cliquish and to outsiders the whole NFA process seemed like black magic

with the internet anyone could see what the process amounted to and could access sellers of weapons easily
which cause a  great increase in demand compared to years past

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And in that same breath, why would anyone even bother to buy a semi? Not I said the fly...

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nobody wanted to pay the stamp?  plus all the misinformation about NFA items at the time.

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Can't even have one here.

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I graduated high school in 1984. I could have bought a HK 94 had it converted to MP5 specs paid for the tax stamp and still not had 1200.00 in it.

But at that time I could not imagine spending that much on a firearm
Talk about missing out on a investment.

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Did the '86 MG law ONLY prohibit the manufacturing of new MGs or were other gun control laws added in there? I thought class 3 licenses and stuff were still required for MG ownership prior to '86?

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I know.. it is like the girl that got away.
 

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Did the '86 MG law ONLY prohibit the manufacturing of new MGs or were other gun control laws added in there? I thought class 3 licenses and stuff were still required for MG ownership prior to '86?

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Is there a legal way to have a semi-auto Mac-11 converted to full auto? I will admit that I know nothing when it comes to full auto stuff.

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Is there a legal way to have a semi-auto Mac-11 converted to full auto? I will admit that I know nothing when it comes to full auto stuff.

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NO, Had to be converted before Sept May of 86 to be owned / registered by a individual!

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Although I'll never be able to afford one I can't help looking at automatic weapons for sale on the net. A MAC10 goes for around $5,000 and HK MP5s and Colt M16s are roughly $20,000. My question is how much did they cost before the ban and were they readily available? Also, if there was no ban and none on the horizon how much would they, and others,  cost today?

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IIRC M16s could be had for between 1 and 2K in 80'. Today if there were no restrictions of any kind on MGs and they were treated like any other firearm, M16s would cost the same as an AR.

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I've got a Mac11 or M11/9 as they are called by SWD. New they sold for $150-200, and were marketed as a poor man's PDW. Going rates for an M11/9 are $2600 used to $3400 brand new in the box. There are tens of thousands of these guns in the registry, there's no need to pay a dealer for his line of salesmanship on a gun he has in inventory-just find one and have it transferred. I did it in-state and used Quicken Willmaker to create a trust when I couldn't get a CLEO sign off. Talk about dumb... Since I was forced to form a Trust, the only person that asked for any form of ID to establish my identity was the lady at my back who notarized the Trust.

Anyway, Deals are out there on used MACs. Don't be afraid to buy a beat up one, they are dead simple, parts are cheap and very available, and you can refinish them to like-new for very little $$. There are some really good conversions for the MAC these days that turn them into something worth having. I have a MAX-11 slow fire upper on mine and it's a GREAT weapon now. Very accurate and controllable. With the stock upper, it's only good for gunfighting in a bathroom stall.
Here's me squeezing off 3 round bursts at a bowling pin shoot the second time I had it out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lo_HvoZ_FU0

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Did the '86 MG law ONLY prohibit the manufacturing of new MGs or were other gun control laws added in there? I thought class 3 licenses and stuff were still required for MG ownership prior to '86?

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That's Good

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I have been collecting machineguns for about 8 or 9 years now and bought my first shortly after graduating from college for $900 (M11/9).  However, I was exposed to machineguns at a pretty early age sometime in the mid to late 80's though my dad's hunting buddies.

Back in the 80's there was not a lot of information on machinegun ownership and the legal process of how to legally obtain one.  The biggest hurdle on machinegun (or NFA ownership in general) was the CLEO (Chief Law Enforcement Office Signature) on the F1 or F4.

In the majority of urban populations most Sheriff's would not sign off on the forms (just like it is today) and that put an end to 99% of folks ambitions who wanted to purchase an NFA firearm.   My dad's hunting friend bought a couple machineguns and for years was unable to take possession of them because he could not get a signoff.   Eventually he became an FFL (since it was pretty easy to become an FFL in the 80's and early 90's) and paid his SOT status to transfer them without a signature.

Before 86 there were certain machineguns that you could not just order at your FFL and purchase.  Many of the large manufactures such as Colt and Ruger had LE and Mil only policies and would not sell an M16 to a civilian and their dealers had to prove that their prior inventory went to a PD for example before Colt would replenish a sample weapon.  Obviously, some dealers could be convinced to sell their sample via the right price with the knowledge that they themselves couldn't just order another from Colt.

There were civilian geared machinegun manufacturers such as SWD who primarily sold to civilian collectors in small numbers as well as the vast quantity of rewelds and conversion guns.

Prior to 86, depending upon the gun, some guns did command a premium over their semi counterparts and other say a Mac or conversion gun were valued lower in the same manner used suppressor are hard to sell today due to the double $200 tax stamp to sell them out of state.  For example why buy a used M11 for say $300 and pay $400 in NFA tax vs. just buying a new one from the manufacturer for $400 and paying one NFA tax of $200.

However, after the ban prices began to rise albeit slowly and there was a period of time around the Y2K scare that certain preban semi-auto Colt (say 6721s)  commanded a premium over a M16 conversion gun like a converted Sendra.  After 2000 the average gun owning public began to get online and started to realize that "hey, I never realized machineguns were legal" and the first great buying frenzy began.

One of the biggest drivers of price was the knowledge that the CLEO signature could be bypassed by forming a corporation or LLC.   This opened the doors to NFA ownership to all sorts of folks who never could or realized they could own a machinegun without their local CLEO implicit approval.  All of a sudden wealthy doctors, lawyers, all of whom live in large metro areas such as Houston and Dallas could now purchase NFA weapons without the impediment of the CLEO signature.

Machineguns in general doubled in price between about 2000 and 2002 as more folks got online and became educated.  For example when I first started looking at M16s after graduating in 99 they were running about $2500 and by the time I scraped the money together in 2002 I ended up paying about $4500.

At that point things seemed to have leveled off a bit until the next great surge in prices happened sometime in 2003/2004 with the great "belt-fed upper mania" that swept the NFA community with the official release of the Shrike and shortly thereafter the release of the SOCOM M11 SAW and RPD uppers.  I was guilty of feeding this and also bought a second M16 Sear for about $7500 halfway through the price run-up.

All of a sudden an expensive beltfed or unavailable beltfed (in the case of the SAW and RPD conversions) was now available for a couple thousand dollars and everybody had to get a second M16 for their shrike or a couple extra M11s for their SAW or RPD conversions.  There were also large dealers who were putting out want to buy ads with (at the time) ridiculous WTB prices, even above what the current market was.  In the case of the M11/9, Tactical Innovations was a common, over current market value purchaser of M11/9s, probably with the hope of reselling an at even higher price in the future.  Obviously , this became a sort of self fulfilling pattern with everybody thinking their M11 was now worth what Craig was willing to pay and adjusting their prices in line.   This repeated over the course of about a year or two and very quickly M16's went for the $4500 range to the $10000+ plus range and M11 went from $1200 to $3000+.

As a result of the M16 and M11 rising in price, everything else raised accordingly in comparison to its NFA collectibles pecking order.  Some raised more in the case of HK Sears and DIAS, and some rose less for the already large and impractical beltfeds like the M2HB.

Eventually all the hoopla died down when it became evident that everybody's second M16 was worthless to them from a beltfed perspective without an unobtainum Shrike and the SOCOM conversion turned into a eventual Federal conviction of the owner/inventor (Ernie Wrenn) and were all confiscated by the ATF at the end of the day as they were declared post-sample machineguns in an to themselves... and who needs three M11/9s in standard 9MM config.

Ever since about 2007, prices have been pretty stable or have fallen with the results of the economy and the price of ammo.  

Also most folks who were interested and had the means of purchase most likely already own their fill at this point and as an average have slowed down collecting (as I have) or returned to more normal purchasing patterns as the fear of prices continuing to skyrocket has abated for the past couple year.  In general the number of post in subguns stating "I predict M16 going for $25K next year" are pretty much non-existent today vs the heyday in 2005 and 2006.

From an investor standpoint, the "investor only purchaser" has also dried up as least from my small viewpoint of things.   During the massive run up my dealer had guns in his safe owned by folks who never planned to take ownership of them but that doesn't seem to happen anymore either, lessening the overall demand.

My personal take is that machineguns will continue to appreciate in value slowly without any new legislation.

Two big things that would end up really damaging value would be.

A. Closing of Corp or Trust ownership forcing everybody to get a CLEO sig.
B.  A new semi-auto ban that includes both the purchase of new or transfer of existing high cap mags like California has right now. Why buy a machinegun when you could only get a 5rd or 10rd mag unless you previously owned the mag for the MG before the ban.

Hope this helps fill in some gaps and if you want some specific details on price appreciation over the past 5 years to about 2004 look at the link below.

http://machinegunpriceguide.com

James
Austin, Texas