Posted: 9/16/2002 9:44:33 AM EDT
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In another thread it was stated by several that they would vote for a Liberal Liddy (No AK's for you) Dole even a John McCanngunshows BECAUSE they are Republican, in hopes of getting a Republican majority in the legislature. Yet Dole and McCain are known quantities. They and their ilk Repubs have shat on the First Amendment with recent CFR legislation, and have shat on the Second Amendment with gun show legislation, and a host of other anti gun rhetoric. When I intimated that my conscience would prohibit me from voting for such unConstitutional legisslators, someone even dared cite Shakesspeare against me - "Conscience doth make cowards of us all." I suppose he was trying to call me a coward or something for having firm principles that I dare not violate - NO MATTER the temporal political objective.(typical of those who are INCAPABLE of engaging in debate without attacking an insulting others) So, this raises a questions for the "vote R no matter what" crowd - [b] Would it take them (Dole, McAIN AND THEIR ILK) supporting a COMPLETE suspension of the Bill of Rights for you NOT to vote for them?[/b] Clearly, my conscience kicks in once they violate two or less amendments. What is required for the rest of you - something between 3 and 9 amendments, or a full suspension of the BoR?? Or more???? |
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Lots of people have bought into the hype dished out by the republican (or democrat, for that matter) PR machine. They do not act as they say they will. Respect for the Constitution? Riiiiiiight. Smaller government? Riiiiight... Fiscally responsible? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! |
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Quoted: Sorry... I have seen "btt" several times, but have no idea what it means... [>:/] BTT = Bump to Top Dole is a big government RINO. ETH posted her "new" position on Second Amendment freedoms, and it seems better than her previous one. The Senate race will come down to Dole, as a RINO, or a rabid anti-gun liberal. Those are your choices. [:(] It is up to you to decide if having GOP control of the Senate is worthwhile to you. Senate control is not just about which party has more votes, it is about controlling the debate, and introduction of legislation. I am not convinced I could force [puke] myself to vote for her. Your alternatives: 1. Vote for Dole, helps GOP, may help freedom, but don't get you hopes up... 2. Vote for the liberal, hurts freedom, and entrenches scum in the Senate. 3. Third party or write in vote. Meaningless gesture in this race. Emotionally satisfying, unless the liberal wins. Whatever you decide, make sure you get to the polls! [;)] |
| Christ, I get tired of this. There are political realities that can be faced, or we can die (sooner) by "standing on principal." Voting for the lesser of two evils does NOT mean abandoning principal. Rather, it means doing what is expedient, given the realities of the situation. Clinton, and the liberal left--read--DemocRAT majority in House/Senate/and President--gave us the huge ban in 1994. The Republicans, with all their flaws/shortcomings have given us what anti-gun legislation since they took power?? They have not repealed anything, though that was gaining momentum prior to the OKC incident, BUT THEY HAVE NOT ALLOWED [b]ANY[/b] ANTI-GUN BILLS TO LEAVE COMMITTEE, LET ALONE BE VOTED UPON. Those who spout crap, but don't know shit, don't realize there are still hundreds of gun control bills that have been introduced each year since 1995. Not a single one has seen the light of day. Take a guess who stopped every single one. From a politician's standpoint, with friends like some of us . . . who needs enemas? |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: btt for insufficient "always vote R" response. [}:D] I guess I would look at the alternative candidate and if no better vote "R" ??? Even tho that alleged "R" is KNOWN to support the violation of two amendments of the BoR???? g. man, the truth is that I wouldn't vote. |
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Quoted: From a politician's standpoint, with friends like some of us . . . who needs enemas? Its not my job to be the politicians friend, its HIS job to be MINE. Oddly, we continue offerring anti gun politicians our friendship, tho they CLEARLY and INDISPUTABLY are not our friends. |
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Quoted: Quoted: From a politician's standpoint, with friends like some of us . . . who needs enemas? Its not my job to be the politicians friend, its HIS job to be MINE. Oddly, we continue offerring anti gun politicians our friendship, tho they CLEARLY and INDISPUTABLY are not our friends. Personally, I don't look to politicians for my friends. Feel free to recruit and run the most ardent right-wing pro-RKBA candidate you wish--and watch him/her lose soundly. The fact is, [b]the ones we like won't get elected.[/b] Period. We have to "settle" on the lesser of two (or more) evils. That's reality--deal with it. |
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Quoted: We have to "settle" on the lesser of two (or more) evils. That's reality--deal with it. Funny. I hear people say we have to settle for the "You don't need an AK" types for BOTH our politicians AND our NRA presidents. You'll kindly excuse me if I balk at "dealing with that." |
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Quoted: Quoted: We have to "settle" on the lesser of two (or more) evils. That's reality--deal with it. Funny. I hear people say we have to settle for the "You don't need an AK" types for BOTH our politicians AND our NRA presidents. You'll kindly excuse me if I balk at "dealing with that." Excused. Now, if you will kindly excuse me, I'm going to go bash my head with a hammer for a while, because at least [b]that[/b] feels good when I stop. |
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G-Man... Dammit we've beaten this topic to utter death on two previous threads. Most of us agree with you in principle. The problem is, like theBeekeeper says, we simply can't get our guys and gals elected! It just ain't gonna happen! That's just how our democratic republic works...majority rules. If you don't like the fact that too many folks don't understand the importance of the 2nd Amendment and our precious RKBA...then get out there and win over their hearts and minds! Better yet, run for office! Now...you can stand in the woods alone and scream your rage about the unfairness of it all until you are blue in the face but listen carefully: Ain't nobody gonna hear your raging. You can stand in front of your mirror the morning after the general election and say to yourself, "Well...I guess I showed those damn Republicans who's the BOSS! I didn't vote for ANY of their canditates!" You can feel good that you kept your honor and didn't vote for someone who didn't fully agree with you on this one issue. There's just one thing: When the fucking liberals get back into power and bend us ALL over the table because you single issue guys sat on the sideline bitching, DON'T COME COMPLAINING! You don't get to bitch about how fucked up our government is in that case...'cause you're part of the problem. |
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You guys have NOT answered the question. CLEARLY, violation of TWO Amendments of the BoR ( 2 semi-important ones, mind you) does NOT dissuade you from voting for politicians in order to achieve your temporal political goals. So, how many is it gonna take before you WOULD NOT vote for them??? 4? 7? All 10??? Answer the durn question!!!!!!!!! Maybe the topics been beaten to death, but this question has NEVER been answered. |
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Quoted: There's just one thing: When the fucking liberals get back into power and bend us ALL over the table because you single issue guys sat on the sideline bitching, DON'T COME COMPLAINING! You don't get to bitch about how fucked up our government is in that case...'cause you're part of the problem. My sentiments exactly. You dont buy a ticket, cant watch the show. I have friends like that, they bitch bitch bitch yet, they never vote. They didnt take to kindly to me for what I had to say. |
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Quoted: You guys have NOT answered the question. CLEARLY, violation of TWO Amendments of the BoR ( 2 semi-important ones, mind you) does NOT dissuade you from voting for politicians in order to achieve your temporal political goals. So, how many is it gonna take before you WOULD NOT vote for them??? 4? 7? All 10??? Answer the durn question!!!!!!!!! Maybe the topics been beaten to death, but this question has NEVER been answered. Geez, sorry to overlook answering this profundity. The answer is: when the Repubs become the [b]greater[/b] of two evils, I will not vote for them. It happened here in Illinois during the last race for governor. Along with all my signs for various Repubs in my yard, I had one that read: "Republican for Poshard"--the DemocRAT. He is pro-gun (mostly), Ryan (who won, and will go down as the most corrupt Illinois Governor in history) is quite anti-gun as well as corrupt. I don't always vote Repub--I always vote, and for the lesser of two evils, for the most part. I have voted for a few "perfect" |
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Not many politicians these days are going to voice their unequivocal support for "gun rights" (whatever that means to each individual). Some are dickheads and some just want to get elected. You have to look at what will most likely happen after the election. Will the person actively attack your “rights” or just cruise along, talking about how the education system needs to be fixed? They all will want to get re-elected but they may have different ideas about whom their supporters were and are. We have an election for governor coming up in Illinois which the republican candidate won’t win (thanks to the previous republican governor) unless the democrap gets caught with a teenager under his desk. So, who do I vote for here? Maybe the Libertarian, pro-gun candidate? Perhaps the republicans will wake the hell up. But will we ever be able to repair the damage that the dummycrats are going to do? I hate to even think about it. Make your vote count, or you may find yourself in a situation where you essentially have no vote. |
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In your above mentioned scenario, I would definitely vote republican. The Republic has been dying a slow agonizing death and I would rather see it put out of it's misery than have to listen to decades more of political party sheeple "lesser of 2 evils" rationalizations. |
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Guys, I'm not looking for paragraphs of rationalizations. I simply want one of the following: 1. A [b]number[/b] from 3 to 10, of Amerndments violated that would cause you to lay aside the political objective of regaining the Senate and make you NOT vote for these Republicans in name (and to get the cash of the party) only. or 2. Simply tell me that regaining the Senate in this 104th - 105th whatever COngress is important enuf to endure the violation of the entire BoR. Its that simple. |
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G-Man, In answer to your question: None. I don't see the danger. You may...but I do not. Answer yourself these questions: 1. Can you still stand on a street corner and speak out loudly about damn near anything? Can you pamphleteer about anything short of kiddyporn? Can you still assemble outside the White House and bitch about how screwed up our country is? Can you still worship at the church of your choosing on the day and time of your choosing? Can you still write, call, fax, or e-mail your congressscritter, senator, or the pres? 2. Can you add to your arsenal? Can you buy ammo? Can you shoot, hunt and plink? Can you still defend your property and person with a firearm? 3. Has the Army recently quartered troops in your home? 4. Have the lawdogs busted into your home lately without a properly executed warrant? 5. Have you been given the rubber hose recently to compel you to give testimony or admit to a crime...been imprisoned without due process...been forced to testify against yourself...and has any of your property been swiped by the cops or courts without just compensation? 6. If you have ever been charged with any crime, has the government ever dragged their feet and extended your time in the slammer? Have you ever been prevented from confronting your accusers or been prevented from calling witnesses? Have you ever been refused the assistance of proper counsel for your defense? 7. Have you ever been refused the right of a trial by jury in a civil court? 8. Have the authorities ever racked you? How about the strapado...or been drawn and quartered? Were you ever compelled to pay $1,000,000.00 for a minor traffic fine? 9. Have other, not enumerated rights been denied you? 10. Can you name a particular case where the federal government overstepped its powers clarified in the Constitution and took back those rights from the states and the people, not "delegated" to the United States by the Constitution? I don't see the violations of the Bill of Rights. Please explain in more detail. |
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Replican vs. Democrat is not a possibility because it's the same animal. Just has two different heads that have slightly different tastes for eating up liberties. Can't count the times that this topic has been discussed. All I know to say is, that I believe it's well reconized that the Republicans just go about taking freedoms away slower than Democrats. Like having a terminal disease, I have to ask myself, "Do I go ahead and get it over with by taking my own life, i.e., vote for a democrat? Or do I hold out for hope for a cure and fight as much as possible although I know the chances of a cure being found is more or less nil, i.e., vote Republican? Then there is a third choice of not taking my own life or putting up a fight but just let things go and take their natural course, i.e., not voting or voting for someone that believes in the things I do." It's a choice each and everyone of us has to make individually. From all the threads I've seen in the past, no minds are going to be changed here. Although I do like seeing this topic from time to time. [:)] |
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Sweep, You're so upbeat about the situation. So how long until we freedom loving, free thinking folks need to get together and buy a small country in the tropics just to be free? I'm as frustrated with the political climate in the country as the rest of you. Garandman - get over it, I gotta agree with the crowd here I vote for the lesser of two evils. The more I can slow down the erosion of my rights and those that my children and grandchildren will retain, all the better. As a child I thought politicians (read the forefathers) were great men who established a great country. I believed that the current leaders were also great men who held the same beliefs as the forefathers. As an adult I understand that politics became the same game as aristocrasy, "blue blood" senators and representatives who do what is best for the sheep back home. Reminds me of lords and vassels. Anyone want to go in on that tropical island? Ryan |