Posted: 2/5/2010 11:01:15 PM EDT
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Well, I was thinking, about this big 'ole Toyota recall. I read a few threads the other day, where some members said - I'm not worried, mine was made in Japan. Much to the chagrin of the uaw types perusing the thread. Those statements got me thinking... and I guess, I missed the forest for the trees on this one... When one is a Japanese worker and the quality of life is a bit more, shall we say, dependent on the quality of your work.... You make a determined effort to do your job the right way. Where does that leave a unionized laborer in the US? When a job, wage, insurance and retirement is nearly guaranteed - and by the government no less.... where is the real incentive to do good and produce quality products? I have to say - I think it's absent. Anyone else wake up recently? I of course, can't entirely rid myself of their products... but, I think I'm going to make a conscious effort to NOT buy union whenever possible. |
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Quoted: Of course there are quite a few American workers who actually do take pride in their work, and regardless of being in a union, do a good job. But don't let that bit of information sway you. You have a stereotype to uphold. Not really a sterotype if you look at simple math... let's get past the easy, stereotyping explanation we often see. What is the cost overhead of that sweet package that a union member receives for relatively menial labor? I don't know, off hand, but I will see if I can dig it up. The same Japanese laborer, does not get any where near the benefits of his/ her US counterparts - but yet, their quality of work is superior (I state this due to years of statistical data from consumer reports and other production watchdog types). That overhead is passed on to the American consumer, for what is generally recognized, as inferior quality. I'm have no doubt, that there are many union laborers who take great pride in their work... my question is, why does it cost ME so much? ...and why am I expected to support it? |
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Quoted:
Of course there are quite a few American workers who actually do take pride in their work, and regardless of being in a union, do a good job. But don't let that bit of information sway you. You have a stereotype to uphold. This pretty much sums it up, carry on.... |
| I work for a union company although I'm not in the union myself. According to the contracts certain positions within the company are exempt from being unionized. I won't say it goes for every union member but for they most part they give us huge problems. They act like they should be able to do as they please and steal from the company. They walk around with union jackets and have bumper stickers all over the place and generally act as if it's the union signing their paychecks. Not to mention the labor costs are so high that we have to give price quotes with bare bones man hours calculated so we can get contracts and the guys end up killing themselves to keep from having cost overruns on the jobs.To top it all off they really aren't any better off than the guys at nonunion companies, and in some ways they are worse off. |
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Quoted:
Of course there are quite a few American workers who actually do take pride in their work, and regardless of being in a union, do a good job. But don't let that bit of information sway you. You have a stereotype to uphold. stereotypes exist because there is truth to them. I agree that there are some that are union and work hard nevertheless..... |
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I like when a particular Union member in my shop tells me that I need to slow down because she looks bad because it takes her 10x as long to do the same work.
"Oh, that's not me that is doing that, it's you" is my standard reply. She hasn't worked a complete 40hr week since November when I got there. She bitched the other day that our supervisor always comes over to the end of the shop where myself and 2 other guys work before going to her side. I yelled over: " because he knows someone is actually here every fucking day on this side." that shut her up. 
I love lazy fellow union members, they make me look like a god for simply doing what I'm supposed to be doing.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Of course there are quite a few American workers who actually do take pride in their work, and regardless of being in a union, do a good job. But don't let that bit of information sway you. You have a stereotype to uphold. Not really a sterotype if you look at simple math... let's get past the easy, stereotyping explanation we often see. What is the cost overhead of that sweet package that a union member receives for relatively menial labor? I don't know, off hand, but I will see if I can dig it up. The same Japanese laborer, does not get any where near the benefits of his/ her US counterparts - but yet, their quality of work is superior (I state this due to years of statistical data from consumer reports and other production watchdog types). That overhead is passed on to the American consumer, for what is generally recognized, as inferior quality. I'm have no doubt, that there are many union laborers who take great pride in their work... my question is, why does it cost ME so much? ...and why am I expected to support it? Go read a book by Karl Marx. He will answer all your questions. |
  Getting the UAW boys all riled up on a saturday, goodjob. Here let me summarize how this thread will go. 100 posts telling you unions suck and that they need to go eat a dick Chevyguy and the rest of the UAW gang coming in and saying they do their work well and to MYOFB 3 pages of rebuttals from everyone flaming the UAW boys... /thread You can thank me later |
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Quoted:
http://file:///C:/Users/Greg/AppData/Local/Temp/moz-screenshot.pnghttp://420.thrashbarg.net/i_see_what_you_fucking_did_there_bird.jpg Getting the UAW boys all riled up on a saturday, goodjob. Here let me summarize how this thread will go. 100 posts telling you unions suck and that they need to go eat a dick Chevyguy and the rest of the UAW gang coming in and saying they do their work well and to MYOFB 3 pages of rebuttals from everyone flaming the UAW boys... /thread You can thank me later I think Chevyguy actually has me on ignore these days. 
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Quoted: Quoted: http://file:///C:/Users/Greg/AppData/Local/Temp/moz-screenshot.pnghttp://420.thrashbarg.net/i_see_what_you_fucking_did_there_bird.jpg Getting the UAW boys all riled up on a saturday, goodjob. Here let me summarize how this thread will go. 100 posts telling you unions suck and that they need to go eat a dick Chevyguy and the rest of the UAW gang coming in and saying they do their work well and to MYOFB 3 pages of rebuttals from everyone flaming the UAW boys... /thread You can thank me later I think Chevyguy actually has me on ignore these days. I don't believe I have made enemies with anyone yet, but the incessant whining is getting a little obnoxious so you know what I have to say to that these days? a big fat MEH |
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Quoted:
Well, I was thinking, about this big 'ole Toyota recall. I read a few threads the other day, where some members said - I'm not worried, mine was made in Japan. Much to the chagrin of the uaw types perusing the thread. Those statements got me thinking... and I guess, I missed the forest for the trees on this one... When one is a Japanese worker and the quality of life is a bit more, shall we say, dependent on the quality of your work.... You make a determined effort to do your job the right way. Where does that leave a unionized laborer in the US? When a job, wage, insurance and retirement is nearly guaranteed - and by the government no less.... where is the real incentive to do good and produce quality products? I have to say - I think it's absent. Anyone else wake up recently? I of course, can't entirely rid myself of their products... but, I think I'm going to make a conscious effort to NOT buy union whenever possible. First,educate yourself. The recall has nothing to do with the"uinion built" end of the deal. The problem is the part that fails,and that piece made in Japan is good to go, the piece made in America is the part that fails,and it would not suprise me if that part is made in a very non-union shop,more than likely not even made in the U.S.A. EDIT spelling 
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Quoted:
Of course there are quite a few American workers who actually do take pride in their work, and regardless of being in a union, do a good job. But don't let that bit of information sway you. You have a stereotype to uphold. well said! 
op... trolling first thing in the morning 
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Off topic, but since we are bashing the UAW I will relay this story of mine from last week.
For the first time in since being married, I went to Florida in the winter. My wife booked tickets from Flint Michigan to Fort Myers. We are going to stay with her sisters, their husbands and kids at a condo and watch the Blue Hairs. We get in to the airport, I drop of bags, pass security and then I see it....... A UAW DISPLAY.......Celebrating a strike. How about a display reflecting quality, production or service? How about a display showing the UAW members giving back to the community? Nope, just unions advertising what they do best....find a way not to work. Sorry, just saying. BT |
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I'm not sure that I can agree that labor, union or non-union, can be blamed for design deficiencies of the sort that are giving Toyota grief these days. I just wonder how much a worker has to do with the manufacturing of cars anymore. I really don't know, but in true arfcom fashion, I did see some tv commercials that showed the process and it seemed more automated then anything. So shouldn't we be angry at design/implementation engineering? I would imagine cars are designed to go together as easily as possible right now, especially UAW ones, to keep the cost of labor as low as possible. |
You might want to know what your talking about before trolling (but nobody here seems concerned with facts and the auto industry), your Japanese assembled car.....done by union workers. Their gov't just happens to pay health care and retirement costs. But only the US helps their important industries.
Google is magic Seriously, every single post on here concerning cars brings the most ignorant comments imaginable out of the woodwork. |
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Quoted: I thought you were being snide ... so I was surprised, needless to say, when I realized you were helping me along. I took your advice, and while I didn't read entire works authored by him, I did pick out some key points:Quoted: Quoted: Of course there are quite a few American workers who actually do take pride in their work, and regardless of being in a union, do a good job. But don't let that bit of information sway you. You have a stereotype to uphold. Not really a sterotype if you look at simple math... let's get past the easy, stereotyping explanation we often see. What is the cost overhead of that sweet package that a union member receives for relatively menial labor? I don't know, off hand, but I will see if I can dig it up. The same Japanese laborer, does not get any where near the benefits of his/ her US counterparts - but yet, their quality of work is superior (I state this due to years of statistical data from consumer reports and other production watchdog types). That overhead is passed on to the American consumer, for what is generally recognized, as inferior quality. I'm have no doubt, that there are many union laborers who take great pride in their work... my question is, why does it cost ME so much? ...and why am I expected to support it? Go read a book by Karl Marx. He will answer all your questions. The aim of the International Working Men’s Association, in the eyes of Marx, was not only to unite the trade unions for daily struggles and international cooperation. The trade unions, of course, achieved primary importance because they represented the direct class activity of the working class. The real aim was to work for the political unification of the international working class movement in the struggle for social emancipation – political organisation of the working class. It was arrived at by focusing on organisation which, in the words of Engels, “would demonstrate bodily, so to speak, the international character of the socialist movement, both to the workers themselves and to the bourgeois and to the Governments-for the encouragement and strengthening of the proletariat, for striking fears into the hearts of its enemies.” (Selected Works, vol. 3, page 82). To achieve this purpose it was necessary to pay close attention to the trade union movement. Source=http://www.cpim.org/marxist/198401_marxist_marx&tus_btr.htm Large-scale industry concentrates in one place a crowd of people unknown to one another. Competition divides their interests. But the maintenance of wages, this common interest which they have against their boss, unites them in a common thought of resistance — combination. Thus combination always has a double aim, that of stopping competition among the workers, so that they can carry on general competition with the capitalist. If the first aim of resistance was merely the maintenance of wages, combinations, at first isolated, constitute themselves into groups as the capitalists in their turn unite for the purpose of repression, and in the face of always united capital, the maintenance of the association becomes more necessary to them than that of wages. This is so true that English economists are amazed to see the workers sacrifice a good part of their wages in favor of associations, which, in the eyes of these economists, are established solely in favor of wages. In this struggle — a veritable civil war — all the elements necessary for a coming battle unite and develop. Once it has reached this point, association takes on a political character. Source=http://www.workersliberty.org/node/5289 From The Poverty of Philosophy Kudos! |