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Link Posted: 6/29/2019 8:05:55 PM EDT
[#1]
"Oh man, shut up already; why do you sword guys always gotta talk about how cool your swords are?" --Brock Samson

Relevant article that came up in a Google search for that quote
Link Posted: 6/29/2019 8:11:22 PM EDT
[#2]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Surf:
Why do I feel this thread is going to cost me money?
View Quote
you know you want one

as do I so, I can legally hunt Canada Goose at the mall parking lot with it this fall
Link Posted: 6/29/2019 8:18:15 PM EDT
[#3]
They were probably less expensive than one would think at the time, since I imagine the majority of smiths making them were working for feudal lords at sustenance wages.

Still expensive given the amount of labor.

If I were contracted to make a nihonto style full length sword with full polish and fittings, it would be more than $1000 easily.
Link Posted: 6/29/2019 8:18:43 PM EDT
[#4]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Mach:

you know you want one

as do I so, I can legally hunt Canada Goose at the mall parking lot with it this fall
View Quote
Sand hill cranes
Link Posted: 6/29/2019 8:18:49 PM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Johnny_Reno:
Would you recommend 000 or 0000 steel wool when cleaning the blade?
View Quote
way too abrasive. Just use a tsuba toothpaste.
Link Posted: 6/29/2019 8:21:39 PM EDT
[#6]
I thought original remaining swords were all registered with the japanese govt and couldn't leave the country?
Link Posted: 6/29/2019 8:24:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: chango78] [#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Swoosh101:
I thought original remaining swords were all registered with the japanese govt and couldn't leave the country?
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There's a relatively small list of specific swords declared "national treasures" where that is the case but the vast majority of antique Japanese swords don't fall under that description and can be sold willy-nilly around the world.
Link Posted: 6/29/2019 8:24:24 PM EDT
[#8]
But how many two liters can it cut through?
Link Posted: 6/29/2019 8:25:29 PM EDT
[#9]
Great post. I enjoy NV too much to get a sword.
Link Posted: 6/29/2019 8:29:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: CTM1] [#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Swoosh101:
I thought original remaining swords were all registered with the japanese govt and couldn't leave the country?
View Quote
There is one sword listed on the site DK posted that seems to be over 1000 years old
Link Posted: 6/29/2019 8:36:20 PM EDT
[#11]
Tag for later
Link Posted: 6/29/2019 8:40:34 PM EDT
[#12]
I love you
Link Posted: 6/29/2019 8:40:55 PM EDT
[#13]
Awesome post and neat stuff.

As a collector:

How many swords like this are there estimated to be?

When you sell do you end up making, losing, or breaking even on average?
Link Posted: 6/29/2019 9:22:41 PM EDT
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By HDLS:
Can't have a sword thread without tape.

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/367483/984E9FFD-E322-4131-994D-362377888670-372843.gif
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Came here to post this.
Link Posted: 6/29/2019 9:28:01 PM EDT
[#15]
DK, can you take some close up pictures of the kashira and how it's knotted on your new waki?
Link Posted: 6/29/2019 9:31:59 PM EDT
[#16]
Link Posted: 6/29/2019 9:33:03 PM EDT
[#17]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
This way, when I see a good deal, I can post it in this thread, and hopefully an arfcommer will say "Hey, I want to buy that" - and then I would be obligated to NOT try to buy it for myself.

Win - win.  
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Oh, NOW I am Sofa King IN!!!!
Link Posted: 6/29/2019 9:35:59 PM EDT
[#18]
Beautiful sword almost hate to get blood on it.
Link Posted: 6/29/2019 9:37:29 PM EDT
[#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

There really isn't much to do.  Just keep them out of serious humidity, and occasionally clean and oil them.  Despite myths about choji oil and other things, any high quality gun oil can be used.
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Fireclean ftw!
Link Posted: 6/29/2019 9:38:56 PM EDT
[#20]
Link Posted: 6/29/2019 9:41:11 PM EDT
[#21]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

There really isn't much to do.  Just keep them out of serious humidity, and occasionally clean and oil them.  Despite myths about choji oil and other things, any high quality gun oil can be used.
View Quote
Too much choji (clove oil) can stain the blade.  It's used SPARINGLY.   Actually the clove oil is not used "straight".  Commercially prepared sword oil is a 99 percent fine mineral oil, 1 percent clove oil mix.  Really the purpose of the clove oil is to add a nice smell to the sword care experience.

If you don't have any,  any preservative oil that's good for metals will do.  Anything from light sewing machine oil to heavy gear oil.  You could even use axle grease.  It won't harm steel.

I'd say that if you planned to store a blade for an unknown period of time but probably many years, then applying a full coating of  axle grease or cosmoline and then wrapped in saturated paper and then bagged in plastic would probably be a very effective way to store a blade for years to maybe centuries or more.
Link Posted: 6/29/2019 9:41:40 PM EDT
[#22]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Johnny_Reno:
Would you recommend 000 or 0000 steel wool when cleaning the blade?
View Quote
Brillo pads .............. the soap helps.
Link Posted: 6/29/2019 9:41:43 PM EDT
[#23]
Link Posted: 6/29/2019 9:42:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: DK-Prof] [#24]
Link Posted: 6/29/2019 9:43:41 PM EDT
[#25]
Link Posted: 6/29/2019 9:44:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Him] [#26]
With the anount of horseshit that floats around here, it is refreshing (and delghtful) to see someone share real knowledge.

It is always fascinatimg to listen to a person who knows what he is talking about ,regardless of the subject.
Link Posted: 6/29/2019 9:56:48 PM EDT
[#27]
Link Posted: 6/29/2019 10:04:47 PM EDT
[#28]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 03PSD:
How do they figure out who made it if the tang was chopped at some point and the sig lost?
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Ah, a fine question.

The answer is "Experience.  Lots and lots of experience."  Swordsmiths nearly always work in a style that reflects local traditions and local styles that are "in" at the time that they were made.

The way that fighting changed affected the nuances of how the sword is constructed and shaped.   The advent of armor created the need for a thicker, stouter blade that was heavy enough to not only survive contact with an armored opponent, but defeat that armor.   So in general you can guess that blades that are heavier are from the armor period,  and blades that are lighter date from before when armor was in vogue.   Fighting styles determined the preferred blade curvature and where the curve would be strongest.   Some are much more strongly curved, others are almost straight.

So,  an experienced appraiser, collector, or polisher might look at a specific blade and make the following observations:
The sugata (shape) fits into the early Muromachi period, being of the Shinogi-zukuri type katana, ha-watari of less than 75 cm, chu-kissaki , (short tip), a deep torii-zori (curve)
with a tendenzy toward saki-zori, and a  narrow sakihaba.   This period dates from 1392 to 1428.

Additional observations about the blade, such as jihada which is mokume hada mixed with masame hada, a o-notare hamon, o-midare, yahazu midare, hitatsura, etc, and is of nioi deki,
might indicate an attribution to Takatenjin Kaneaki of Totomi province.

Every detail, every nuance, everything is a clue.  And you could read this and other books from cover to cover and memorize every word, picture, and drawing, and then use that
knowledge to be COMPLETELY wrong about a blade in every possible detail.   Japanese sword appraisal is among the most esoteric of arts.

The Japanese language lesson I just threw at you would give you the faintest clue of what's involved in becoming knowledgeable enough to make an attribution.

I ripped this out of a book, incidentally.  Kokan Nagayama's Connoiseur's Book of Japanese Swords.
Link Posted: 6/29/2019 10:05:23 PM EDT
[#29]
Link Posted: 6/29/2019 10:06:04 PM EDT
[#30]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By zebfishzap:
A buddy showed me a beat up WW2 sword sometime recently, I don’t think it was worth very much though. I used to know a chick who said her parents had a “valuable” Japanese sword at their other (local) house but I never got to see it.
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You don't know until it's been evaluated by someone who is qualified to figure out what it really is.

Under a layer of rust,  a national treasure worth millions looks exactly like a rusty WWII sword worth virtually nothing.
Link Posted: 6/29/2019 10:08:14 PM EDT
[#31]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By chango78:
The problem with me and nihonto is that you can't do much with antique blades besides look at them. I own a couple (Kanemoto 3 and Tadayuki 1) but once the novelty wears off... well let's just say this hobby isn't for everyone.

https://i.imgur.com/LlmOOpw.jpg
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That can be said of art as well.  So you have a picture hanging on the wall.  Great, what else are you going to do with it?  It doesn't even make a good saucer to slide down a snowy hill on in the winter.  Yet it might be considered to be valuable.

At least with a sword,  there are things you CAN do with it.  Cut yourself.  Cut something else.  Clean and oil it from time to time as well as appreciate its history and its beauty.
Link Posted: 6/29/2019 10:13:33 PM EDT
[#32]
Link Posted: 6/29/2019 10:14:03 PM EDT
[#33]
Link Posted: 6/29/2019 10:14:35 PM EDT
[#34]
One of the best threads. I’ve spent the last two hours looking at your links
Link Posted: 6/29/2019 10:15:43 PM EDT
[#35]
Link Posted: 6/29/2019 10:17:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: DK-Prof] [#36]
Link Posted: 6/29/2019 10:19:52 PM EDT
[#37]
Link Posted: 6/29/2019 10:20:59 PM EDT
[#38]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MirrorMirror:

That can be said of art as well.  So you have a picture hanging on the wall.  Great, what else are you going to do with it?  It doesn't even make a good saucer to slide down a snowy hill on in the winter.  Yet it might be considered to be valuable.

At least with a sword,  there are things you CAN do with it.  Cut yourself.  Cut something else.  Clean and oil it from time to time as well as appreciate its history and its beauty.
View Quote
It's just a "me" thing... at first it was pretty cool to have something 3-500 years old with so much history (and I'd still do unholy things to find out where my swords have been/used during all that time) but I'll never know and they end up just being expensive bars of steel that I keep oiled up and locked away.

Nihonto were made to be tools/weapons... seeing them as art objects is a relatively modern concept. For me, the reality outweighs the mystique I guess.
Link Posted: 6/29/2019 10:22:37 PM EDT
[#39]
My mom has a sword she got from her dad who was in Japan during the war. He glassed a jap officer and took it from him.
Link Posted: 6/29/2019 10:24:20 PM EDT
[#40]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

With a proper polish on them, they are very sharp.  All of mine are in good polish, so all are sharp.
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Sharp enough to effortlessly shave the hair off your arm.  That describes a well done fresh polish on a blade.

At the very least the monouchi area should be that sharp.  That's the "sweet spot", the outer third or so of the blade where you can expect most of the cutting will happen.
Link Posted: 6/29/2019 10:25:00 PM EDT
[#41]
Link Posted: 6/29/2019 10:27:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: j_hooker] [#42]
@DK-Prof
Let’s say a person wanted to find a “field grade” Wakizashi or a less than desirable short sword with furniture as a wall hanger (circa 1600) What’s the lowest you’ve seen?
Link Posted: 6/29/2019 10:27:59 PM EDT
[#43]
Link Posted: 6/29/2019 10:32:27 PM EDT
[#44]
A presentable wak with presentable full koshirae?  The koshirae will cost more than the blade.

I'd say that's a 500 dollar blade plus at LEAST that much for the koshirae.  So let's say I'd expect that to have a price tag starting around a thousand bucks.

That's my opinion.  Our resident psychopolitical Porsche GTS driver may have a slightly different experience.
Link Posted: 6/29/2019 10:32:31 PM EDT
[#45]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Josh:
That stuff is much too fine. Just get a good 150 grit sand paper and go to town.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Josh:
Originally Posted By Johnny_Reno:
Would you recommend 000 or 0000 steel wool when cleaning the blade?
That stuff is much too fine. Just get a good 150 grit sand paper and go to town.
Naw dawgz,  use a Dremel with the flapper wheel sander thingy.
Link Posted: 6/29/2019 10:37:05 PM EDT
[#46]
Link Posted: 6/29/2019 10:38:05 PM EDT
[#47]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MirrorMirror:
A presentable wak with presentable full koshirae?  The koshirae will cost more than the blade.

I'd say that's a 500 dollar blade plus at LEAST that much for the koshirae.  So let's say I'd expect that to have a price tag starting around a thousand bucks.

That's my opinion.  Our resident psychopolitical Porsche GTS driver may have a slightly different experience.
View Quote
Thanks MirrorMirror
Link Posted: 6/29/2019 10:38:15 PM EDT
[#48]
Link Posted: 6/29/2019 10:38:50 PM EDT
[#49]
Link Posted: 6/29/2019 10:40:29 PM EDT
[#50]
OST
Page / 30
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