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Posted: 11/13/2020 12:23:59 AM EDT
[#1]
Pi Speakers has some nice kits.
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Posted: 11/13/2020 12:51:51 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ULF driver. Ultra Low Frequency. Essentially a variable pitch flat bladed fan with the blades attached to a voice coil. Sub-Subwoofer ;) I'm using 2 dayton DCS450-4 18's in 13cf boxes, slot ported at 24hz. Driven off a 1500w Crown XLS class D with a VSX1024 pioneer rcvr and a Jamo home theater set in 5.2 config. The MCACC setup takes care of time and phase issues, and it sounds great. I picked those subs just to try, I hadn't used Dayton drivers before but they're pretty well made for basic budget 18's. They take a huge box ported, but sound awesome. One day when I get time and money to burn I'll get 4 of the reference HO's and re-face the boxes for 2 18's ea. As the HO model uses 7cf each, in a 13cf box, I can cheat with adding more polyfill and leave the tuning as is and double up drivers. I'll have to get a new amp though. Should be neat!  Do it and run them hard! Just keep eye on motor temps, find ya magic spot, they burn fast. |
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Posted: 11/13/2020 12:58:57 AM EDT
[#3]
Ultimax. They are fun. :)
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Posted: 11/13/2020 1:01:39 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Do it and run them hard! Just keep eye on motor temps, find ya magic spot, they burn fast. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: ULF driver. Ultra Low Frequency. Essentially a variable pitch flat bladed fan with the blades attached to a voice coil. Sub-Subwoofer ;) I'm using 2 dayton DCS450-4 18's in 13cf boxes, slot ported at 24hz. Driven off a 1500w Crown XLS class D with a VSX1024 pioneer rcvr and a Jamo home theater set in 5.2 config. The MCACC setup takes care of time and phase issues, and it sounds great. I picked those subs just to try, I hadn't used Dayton drivers before but they're pretty well made for basic budget 18's. They take a huge box ported, but sound awesome. One day when I get time and money to burn I'll get 4 of the reference HO's and re-face the boxes for 2 18's ea. As the HO model uses 7cf each, in a 13cf box, I can cheat with adding more polyfill and leave the tuning as is and double up drivers. I'll have to get a new amp though. Should be neat! Do it and run them hard! Just keep eye on motor temps, find ya magic spot, they burn fast. Have the same crowns and daytons, they beat the windows like a hurricane! Defifitly get the HO! |
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Posted: 11/13/2020 1:06:18 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Never been happy with 21” woofers. They are slow and unresponsive. They belong in clubs where people want brown note body shaking fart noises rather than punchy, tight, responsive low end. Why such a large woofer in such a small space? Why two subs? Having multiple low end sources are only going to cause phase issues, comb filtering issues and timing issues. Do you have the ability to measure, tune and align sources? You’ll get more out of your set up if you have the ability to optimize the system rather than just plugging it in and turning it on. What’s wrong with a 10-12”? Have you checked out any higher end decent subs like Focal or BW? Quote HistoryQuoted: Never been happy with 21” woofers. They are slow and unresponsive. They belong in clubs where people want brown note body shaking fart noises rather than punchy, tight, responsive low end. Why such a large woofer in such a small space? Why two subs? Having multiple low end sources are only going to cause phase issues, comb filtering issues and timing issues. Do you have the ability to measure, tune and align sources? You’ll get more out of your set up if you have the ability to optimize the system rather than just plugging it in and turning it on. What’s wrong with a 10-12”? Have you checked out any higher end decent subs like Focal or BW? I am convinced that many of the claims of "slow" woofers are poorly designed boxes Multiple subs work, but you had better understand cancellation and room nodes when placing them. 80 Hz is still a pretty long wavelength, so placing a pair within a quarter wavelength is pretty easy to do, while still smoothing out frequency response from room nodes. Depends on the room too. Quoted: Diysoundgeoup, 18” flat pack kits and some dayton subs from partsexpress. Berringer 1500wat amps to drive them. Wont break the bank and will piss ya neighbors pff very quickly. I have 4, yea its retarded. Do the subwoofer crawl, place them properly or they will suck. If you dont have gear yet, look to emotiva. Get REW software its free and a calibrated mic feom parts express The future is now old man jpg If you have REW and a mic, even a non calibrated one you can do so much better than the crawl with the mic. Realistically there are only so many locations to put a sub, so doing a measurement on 2 or 3 is likely better than the crawl unless you have really good ears. I have a Crown with something like 1000 watts rms and a pair of 12's, an 18" on 1500 watts rms should be more than enough for home theater with plenty of headroom left over |
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Posted: 11/13/2020 1:09:37 AM EDT
[#6]
I built a 4.5cuft ported box for a 12" Infinity Kappa Perfect with a 300watt plate amp.... it's pretty awesome
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Posted: 11/13/2020 1:10:31 AM EDT
[#7]
The high end JL powered subs are insane.
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Posted: 11/14/2020 4:34:13 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Paging @Robert_J Quote HistoryQuoted: Paging @Robert_J Quoted: Built a 15" tc sounds tc3k back in 2007..fed with 1200w from a crown amp. Dsp in front of it. It was awesome. Married and moved yeas later..sub sits in a box in storage, cabinet is a end table and sold the amp. Lol. Last year I built a sub for my offuce.. dayton ultimax 8" with a 200w plate amp. Tuned to 25hz. It rocks pretty hard. Quoted: Purchased drivers, but I assume some here are also designing and building boxes in addition to flatpacks. As others have mentioned, the DIY speaker and sub section at AVS has the most knowledgeable people. Home Theater Forum used to when guys Tom Vodhanel and Ron Stimpson (The S and the V from SVS subwoofers), Scott Atwood (Destijl Engineering, RE Audio, Fi Car Audio), and Dan Wiggins (Adire Audio and patent holder of the XBL^2 speaker technology) used to post. |
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Posted: 11/15/2020 12:54:16 PM EDT
[#9]
I know nearly nothing.
I’d like to have a better sub to listen to music, don’t really care about home theater. It will be in a living room with vaulted ceilings. I have the poors because of being furloughed so much this year. A budget of ~$700. I’d enjoy building one if it would deliver more bang for the buck. TIA |
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Posted: 11/15/2020 3:25:39 PM EDT
[#10]
I built one of these with 10's 20 years ago still going strong. I cant imagine one with 12's or 15's....... So I might just have to build one again, LOL.
wicked one folded horn |
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Posted: 11/16/2020 9:47:37 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I know nearly nothing. I’d like to have a better sub to listen to music, don’t really care about home theater. It will be in a living room with vaulted ceilings. I have the poors because of being furloughed so much this year. A budget of ~$700. I’d enjoy building one if it would deliver more bang for the buck. TIA How large can you build it? Anything from a medium sized moving box to a refrigerator in play. What are you goals? Do you want a little low end for music or realistic space cannons on sci-fi movies? You have to remember that a shoe box sized sub won't meet lofty goals. It's all part of Hoffman's Iron Law. But a $700 budget will get you a sub that will outperform most retail subs if you have the power tools already. |
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Posted: 11/16/2020 10:52:45 AM EDT
[#12]
I don't know how easy it is to get info on various subs, but when I did pro sound the good brands had available info so that you could build a box that performed as you wanted. meaning you know the internal cu ft of the box, port diameter and length. then assuming you started with a decent woofer, use void free birch plywood, cross brace with 1x2's, you get a nice box. But to build without known specs you get an underperforming box.
It depends on what you want, sounds like a lot of low-low rumble. Most factory boxes are tuned for that. what is hard to find is something with good punch for music. |
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Posted: 11/16/2020 12:01:30 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't know how easy it is to get info on various subs, but when I did pro sound the good brands had available info so that you could build a box that performed as you wanted. meaning you know the internal cu ft of the box, port diameter and length. then assuming you started with a decent woofer, use void free birch plywood, cross brace with 1x2's, you get a nice box. But to build without known specs you get an underperforming box. It depends on what you want, sounds like a lot of low-low rumble. Most factory boxes are tuned for that. what is hard to find is something with good punch for music. What do you define as "good punch for music"? After building my sub, I added a parametric EQ so that the in-room response was + or - 3db from 120hz to 17hz. That process took hours but Dayton Audio has a relatively inexpensive DSP device that will do this in minutes - https://www.daytonaudio.com/product/1664/dsp-lf-low-frequency-dsp-controller. There are even a few how-to videos on You Tube. |
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Posted: 11/22/2020 11:18:28 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How large can you build it? Anything from a medium sized moving box to a refrigerator in play. What are you goals? Do you want a little low end for music or realistic space cannons on sci-fi movies? You have to remember that a shoe box sized sub won't meet lofty goals. It's all part of Hoffman's Iron Law. But a $700 budget will get you a sub that will outperform most retail subs if you have the power tools already. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I know nearly nothing. I’d like to have a better sub to listen to music, don’t really care about home theater. It will be in a living room with vaulted ceilings. I have the poors because of being furloughed so much this year. A budget of ~$700. I’d enjoy building one if it would deliver more bang for the buck. TIA How large can you build it? Anything from a medium sized moving box to a refrigerator in play. What are you goals? Do you want a little low end for music or realistic space cannons on sci-fi movies? You have to remember that a shoe box sized sub won't meet lofty goals. It's all part of Hoffman's Iron Law. But a $700 budget will get you a sub that will outperform most retail subs if you have the power tools already. @Robert_J Sorry I missed your reply Size is not really an issue, up to about 20” on each side. I don’t really do home theater. I want the subs for music. Think Jamtronica an EDM like Tipper or Bassnectar I have access to a decent amount of wood working tools. Thank you for your time! |
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Posted: 11/22/2020 3:59:20 PM EDT
[#15]
@TZ250
I've listened to EDM to test systems and subs but I'm not a regular listener. So I looked up the frequency response of EDM and it goes down to about 20hz. It's like an action movie with a 60hz punch in the chest. I immediately thought of this sub https://www.avsforum.com/threads/the-v-b-s-s-diy-subwoofer-design-thread.2226642/. Scroll down a little to the dual model and click the link for more details. Pair it with a Behringer iNuke DSP 1000 it will rock a small to medium sized room. For a large room or open floor plan, you would want multiple boxes with a Behringer iNuke DSP 3000. |
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Posted: 11/22/2020 4:15:09 PM EDT
[#16]
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Posted: 11/22/2020 4:18:18 PM EDT
[#17]
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Posted: 11/22/2020 4:51:43 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:  No.12"s are GREAT for near field applications (bass rig for a bass player, subs in a car or small home theater. But when you are providing a PA for speech and music, in an outdoor space for > 4000 people, you are going to want a bunch of RCF 18"s or Meyer 700HPs, or EAW 1000's or L'Acoustics SB218s to replicate those frequencies at a level high enough for the entire audience to FEEL it. mmmmmm. hmmmmm! This is some good equipment. Playing on something like this is close to divine. Nothing quite feels the same afterward. |
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Posted: 11/22/2020 6:37:09 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @TZ250 I've listened to EDM to test systems and subs but I'm not a regular listener. So I looked up the frequency response of EDM and it goes down to about 20hz. It's like an action movie with a 60hz punch in the chest. I immediately thought of this sub https://www.avsforum.com/threads/the-v-b-s-s-diy-subwoofer-design-thread.2226642/. Scroll down a little to the dual model and click the link for more details. Pair it with a Behringer iNuke DSP 1000 it will rock a small to medium sized room. For a large room or open floor plan, you would want multiple boxes with a Behringer iNuke DSP 3000. That is exactly the kind of info I’m looking for. The Infinity sub I have only goes to 29hz IIRC. I’d like to get cleaner definition down low when the volume goes up. |
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Posted: 11/22/2020 7:16:32 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That is exactly the kind of info I’m looking for. The Infinity sub I have only goes to 29hz IIRC. I’d like to get cleaner definition down low when the volume goes up. You will get down low and punch you in the chest bass. 2 drivers - https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-pa460-8-18-pro-woofer--295-036 - $200 amp - iNuke 1000 - $250 That leaves you with a little left over for wood and misc parts like Speakon connectors and cables. Go nuts and add some EQ - Dayton DSP-LF You can tame most room peaks with that and it is super easy if you are an iPotato user. I've been running a Behringer EP-2500 amp in my home theater for 15 years with no issues. At 2 ohms per channel, it's sending about 800w to each of my 15's. I'm old-school and use a Behringer Feedback Destroyer as my DSP to EQ my response basically flat to 17hz. |
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Posted: 11/22/2020 7:41:26 PM EDT
[#21]
Years ago my dad and I build a bandpass enclosure with 4 kicker competition 8" subs for our home theater. Fucker shook a 5000 s.f. house running on 60 watts. It was great sub but it was fucking huge, Something like 40"x24"x12".
It was kind of like this but with two 8" on each side and round ports. |
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Posted: 11/22/2020 7:42:43 PM EDT
[#22]
"Anybody build subwoofers? "
Yeah, 6 year olds in bangladesh. Bangin! |
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