[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Anybody else that got in on the Sabre Defense/Cav Arms $20 lowers find them out of spec? (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 12/6/2017 9:39:06 PM EDT
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Got 5 of them after reading reviews that they're the only good plastic reciever out there, and also because at $20 a pop, why not? Of the 5 I have none will retain a magazine. The mag well is so wide that the bar that holds the mags won't even retain the mag at all on 4, and the one that kind of does, drops them out with light forward pressure on the mag release button. Width on Sabre's magwell is 1.0975, while on a Colt 6920, it measures .9245. That's a .173" difference. The guys at In Range TV said they had good luck with them, but mine are all not in spec. Maybe I should fire up the band saw  Update: Well obviously from everybody's response, the mag well is supposed to be wider on these in the location I was measuring. I called the guys at GWACS today and the guy who I talked to believes that the mag catch slot is shallow on them. He was really helpful and is confident they should work if a little material is removed to allow the catch to fully seat. He said to just go really slow and test fit until it works. I'm going to give it a shot as soon as I get a chance. These particular receivers by the way, were actually made by Cav Arms for Sabre several years ago prior to the Sabre Defense legal troubles that shut them down. Update 2: Got it working now, I had to remove quite a bit of material it was so out of spec. Approximately .030 was the number. Strange that all mine have this issue. Going to see if they're all consecutive serial numbers. Could have come from a bad batch I guess. Thanks for everybody's help here, especially freeride21a. Also the person at GWACS if you're reading this. Band saw receiver slaughter averted
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Try pushing forward on the mag release button and see what happens. I thought one was good to go until I did that. Quoted:
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The one I assembled is good to go. ETA: pmag and USGI work fine |
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Yup. I just double checked. Mine is nice and snug. Drops free with a solid push of the mag release. Quoted:
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The one I assembled is good to go. |
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The three I got were tight. I had to open them up a little for the mags to work. No different that some of the 80% lowers I have done. Try different mags to see if it makes a difference. All three would drop free with plastic mags, but hang with metal ones.
Another thing to check is see if there is flashing in the magazine release cutout where the mag release pin goes through. I had a similar problem with the mag release on one receiver not seating deep enough to hold the mag, and found that some casting flash was stopping it from seating properly. A minutes work with a pocket knife took care of the problem. Compare how far the mag release protrudes into the mag well versus a standard lower. |
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Got 5 of them after reading reviews that they're the only good plastic reciever out there, and also because at $20 a pop, why not? Of the 5 I have none will retain a magazine. The mag well is so wide that the bar that holds the mags won't even retain the mag at all on 4, and the one that kind of does, drops them out with light forward pressure on the mag release button. Width on Sabre's magwell is 1.0975, while on a Colt 6920, it measures .9245. That's a .173" difference. The guys at In Range TV said they had good luck with them, but mine are all garbage. Maybe I should fire up the band saw
Calling them tomorrow and asking for either replacement or refunds. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/20524/IMG_6624-383252.JPG https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/20524/IMG_6628-383253.JPG https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/20524/IMG_6633-383254.JPG |
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The area you are measuring is the area that allows the use of 45acp mags in these. Why no measure the thinner part? ETA, maybe your mag release is out of spec. |
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Quoted: Cav Arms lowers were as good as it gets for lightweight builds until they went to club Fed. No real experience with the GWACS or whatever but they should be using the Cav tooling. All my cav's are good to go...heck one is my desk rifle right now.. with pmag in it.. troys work fine too as well as usgi. Attached File |
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The Sabre lowers GWACS is selling were made by Cav iirc All my cav's are good to go...heck one is my desk rifle right now.. with pmag in it.. troys work fine too as well as usgi. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/21179/IMG_20171206_192515082_HDR~2-383302.JPG Quoted:
Quoted: Cav Arms lowers were as good as it gets for lightweight builds until they went to club Fed. No real experience with the GWACS or whatever but they should be using the Cav tooling. All my cav's are good to go...heck one is my desk rifle right now.. with pmag in it.. troys work fine too as well as usgi. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/21179/IMG_20171206_192515082_HDR~2-383302.JPG |
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Did you ever own one? They’re not “shitty” - actually pretty clever and quite durable. Quoted:
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Just say no to shitty plastic lower receivers  |
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Quoted: Pretty sure Cav hasn't made any since the Cav-Aid lowers. Saber bought the machines but may not be as on par as when Cav was doing it. The Cav lowers were legit. Quoted: Pretty sure Cav hasn't made any since the Cav-Aid lowers. Saber bought the machines but may not be as on par as when Cav was doing it. The Cav lowers were legit. The CAV-15 MKII was also produced under marking variances for Sabre Defence as the SR-15 “Light Sabre” and for Eagle Arms as the M15P. Both of these were only available in black. |
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Wespe, I'm not sure what issue you're having, but you're certainly measuring the wrong spot in the magwell. Cav Arms designed that section of the magwell wide for a reason - it's to fit M3 Grease Gun magazines so you could run an Olympic .45" ACP upper w/ a Hahn block. Cav Arms made all the Sabre Defense lowers before both companies went under; GWACS currently makes the Cav Arms Mk 2, and will warranty your lowers for $35 ea, + shipping to your FFL.
Trinity Ordnance has no replacements, so they won't be sending you any. They might offer you a refund, but based on the pics you've shown, you're measuring the wrong part - that's in spec for a Cav Arms Mk 2. What magazines are you trying, how many different bolt catches have you tried, and how deep have you screwed them in? The only 2 issues w/ mags I've had on a Sabre Defense/GWACS lowers is a Gen 1 RZE Unimag was too wide for the Sabre Defense magwells, but Gen 2 fixed that, and a GWACS lower w/ GWACS installed GWACS LPK failed to operate the LRBHO using Gen 2 Magpuls, but worked fine w/ a Gen 3. |
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Wespe, I'm not sure what issue you're having, but you're certainly measuring the wrong spot in the magwell. Cav Arms designed that section of the magwell wide for a reason - it's to fit M3 Grease Gun magazines so you could run an Olympic .45" ACP upper w/ a Hahn block. Cav Arms made all the Sabre Defense lowers before both companies went under; GWACS currently makes the Cav Arms Mk 2, and will warranty your lowers for $35 ea, + shipping to your FFL. Trinity Ordnance has no replacements, so they won't be sending you any. They might offer you a refund, but based on the pics you've shown, you're measuring the wrong part - that's in spec for a Cav Arms Mk 2. What magazines are you trying, how many different bolt catches have you tried, and how deep have you screwed them in? The only 2 issues w/ mags I've had on a Sabre Defense/GWACS lowers is a Gen 1 RZE Unimag was too wide for the Sabre Defense magwells, but Gen 2 fixed that, and a GWACS lower w/ GWACS installed GWACS LPK failed to operate the LRBHO using Gen 2 Magpuls, but worked fine w/ a Gen 3. |
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Quoted: I had gotten the impression from that thread that these things were "super blems" if you will, and very well could require tinkering to get them to work. It was part of the reason I stayed away. For cracked magwells, there are multiple possible solutions, which are detailed in the $300 AR thread here: http://www.ar15.com/forums/general/-200-uppers-300-AR-thread-in-time-for-Christmas-/5-2047298/?page=11#i69307160 OP, there were some folks in the thread who were looking for lowers b/c they missed the deal, so if you don't want 'em, post em in the EE and drop a line in the main thread. |
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Quoted: Understood on the magwell measurement being in the wrong location, however, the mag catch still won't go in far enough to retain a mag with it screwed in all the way. I've even screwed it in so far that the threads are are protruding out of th center of the button by approximately .050. I've tried two seperate mag catches from two different manufacturers. CMMG, and Anderson. Never had a problem before using these parts on aluminum lowers. Are any of your magwells cracked? I know you got $20 lowers and the fellas were gonna check em before they were sent out, but maybe yours slipped out & there's something caught between the halves. Why don't you post up in the main thread; there are a couple of Cav Arms experts there that can troubleshoot this. ETA: I've had a lower from em for a year or two now that is cracked completely through the front of the magwell - I've never had it drop a mag. |
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You got me, then. Have you chased the edges of the mag catch hole w/ the blade of Exact Zero? There may be some flashing holding it up - but you should notice the button not fully extended. What magazines are you using? Are any of your magwells cracked? I know you got $20 lowers and the fellas were gonna check em before they were sent out, but maybe yours slipped out & there's something caught between the halves. Why don't you post up in the main thread; there are a couple of Cav Arms experts there that can troubleshoot this. ETA: I've had a lower from em for a year or two now that is cracked completely through the front of the magwell - I've never had it drop a mag. Quoted:
Quoted: Understood on the magwell measurement being in the wrong location, however, the mag catch still won't go in far enough to retain a mag with it screwed in all the way. I've even screwed it in so far that the threads are are protruding out of th center of the button by approximately .050. I've tried two seperate mag catches from two different manufacturers. CMMG, and Anderson. Never had a problem before using these parts on aluminum lowers. Are any of your magwells cracked? I know you got $20 lowers and the fellas were gonna check em before they were sent out, but maybe yours slipped out & there's something caught between the halves. Why don't you post up in the main thread; there are a couple of Cav Arms experts there that can troubleshoot this. ETA: I've had a lower from em for a year or two now that is cracked completely through the front of the magwell - I've never had it drop a mag. |
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I just tried 9 different mags in my stepdaughter's incomplete Christmas build, and all 9 locked in, including the flush fit 5 round steel Pro-Mag that I had to pry out w/ a screwdriver. Even the pre-ban Ram-Line locked up, as well as straight 20 round Magpuls, 20 & 30 round Cammengas, and a 10 round Gen 3. And the Gen 2 Unimag.
ETA: Took one of my $5 blems to the Lewisville gunshow Sunday. M3 Grease Gun mags do fit. It does stop from overinsertion, however; I guess the mag body expands further down, so you just get the feed lips up top. |
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Quoted: Pretty sure Cav hasn't made any since the Cav-Aid lowers. Saber bought the machines but may not be as on par as when Cav was doing it. The Cav lowers were legit. Quoted: Pretty sure Cav hasn't made any since the Cav-Aid lowers. Saber bought the machines but may not be as on par as when Cav was doing it. The Cav lowers were legit. Quoted: Pretty sure Cav hasn't made any since the Cav-Aid lowers. Saber bought the machines but may not be as on par as when Cav was doing it. The Cav lowers were legit. Cav Arms Corp produced the CAV-15 MKII from 2003-2010. During that time frame they made receivers under variance for Eagle Arms and Sabre Defence. GWACS bought the molds and tooling from me after Cav Arms closed. They have been producing them since 2012. GWACS is not selling Sabre Defence receivers. GWACS has a policy of replacing other branded CAV-15 MKII type receivers for $35.00 Cav Arms produced about 2000 of these and they went up for a Auction after Sabre Defence closed. |
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If your mag catch isn't sitting deep enough you can remove material around the area the shaft goes through on the receiver or remove material from the mag catch itself. I've done it both ways. If the mag catch is binding on the slot chamfer the edge of the slot usually the lower lip. |
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Quoted: Understood on the magwell measurement being in the wrong location, however, the mag catch still won't go in far enough to retain a mag with it screwed in all the way. I've even screwed it in so far that the threads are are protruding out of th center of the button by approximately .050. I've tried two seperate mag catches from two different manufacturers. CMMG, and Anderson. Never had a problem before using these parts on aluminum lowers.  Failed To Load Title |
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Quoted: there's so much blatantly wrong information in these threads.
Cav Arms Corp produced the CAV-15 MKII from 2003-2010. During that time frame they made receivers under variance for Eagle Arms and Sabre Defence. GWACS bought the molds and tooling from me after Cav Arms closed. They have been producing them since 2012. GWACS is not selling Sabre Defence receivers. GWACS has a policy of replacing other branded CAV-15 MKII type receivers for $35.00 Cav Arms produced about 2000 of these and they went up for a Auction after Sabre Defence closed.  It was clear you were involved, but I didn't realize you are THE guy. It's a great product.
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Quoted: It was clear you were involved, but I didn't realize you are THE guy. It's a great product.The CAV-15 is the brain child of Shawn Nealon https://sinistralrifleman.com/2013/01/27/history-of-the-cav-15-polymer-receiver/ |
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Freaking Stag arms hasn't sent my black Friday LPKs yet, so I guess I'll go pull a mag catch from another rifle to see if I'm out of spec. One thing about mine and this goes for every plastic lower I've ever owned (Bushmaster carbon, Plumcrazy, Tegra Arms, New Frontier) is that the upper/lower fitment is way too tight. ETA: Just checked Pmag, Lancer Mag, Colt Mag, and Troy Mag in all three of my lowers. All three are GTG. I suspect the OP isn't screwing his mag catch far enough or the mag catch is out of spec. How many times you have it turned in? Mine starts to catch at 4-5 turns, but I have it cranked up to 8 because I use oversized mag release buttons. Maybe an oversized button would work for you? Attached File 2nd ETA: On mine, the take down pins go in from the left side only because the front one won't clear by entering from the right. Is it like that for everyone? |
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Freaking Stag arms hasn't sent my black Friday LPKs yet, so I guess I'll go pull a mag catch from another rifle to see if I'm out of spec. One thing about mine and this goes for every plastic lower I've ever owned (Bushmaster carbon, Plumcrazy, Tegra Arms, New Frontier) is that the upper/lower fitment is way too tight. |