Posted: 10/5/2008 6:46:37 PM EDT
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Hey guys I've spent a lot of time looking over the last year or 2 but never actually purchased an AR or anything else. I've been getting more and more serious about it lately, and with the election coming up that raises a few questions. I've heard a bit about the last assault weapons ban, but I'm just about to turn 20 so I wasn't really paying any attention when it was around the first time. From what I've heard and seen, I expect that if one particular candidate gets elected in November that it will be back in effect. I understand for the most part what the ban says as far as classifying a weapon with a pistol grip and a number of other things as an assault weapon, but what I was wondering was if I was planning on building an AR but don't want to do it before January (if that certain someone does get elected), would I be ok to buy the lower receiver before that and then all the rest of the parts I could purchase at a later date? Is it just the lower receiver that there are restrictions on? The other question is about different assault rifles. I want to get an AR for sure in the near future, but I was also looking at what else is good thats out there for something not too expensive but nice. I was looking at an SKS as well, I want to get one of those sometime soon, but what else would you recommend? I'm not too familiar with prices, is there anything I can get for under $350 or $400? I want something good but I'm a college student and don't want to spend a ton on one either. I appreciate the help |
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get a couple lowers. you can always build them later. SKS is fine as long as you don't bubba it with bolt on crap that make it a pos. "from factory" is fine. and I would not worry about them being banned too much, they are a Curio and Relic rifle so they will still be available. In your $400 or lower range get a low end AK or a Saiga and then convert it. |
My recommendation for lowers Couldn't be happier with mine. |
I want to get an AR for sure in the near future, but I was also looking at what else is good thats out there for something not too expensive but nice. I was looking at an SKS as well, I want to get one of those sometime soon, but what else would you recommend? I'm not too familiar with prices, is there anything I can get for under $350 or $400?With that budget you could afford an SKS and probably a case of ammo. Still, keep you long term goals in mind. I'd buy an AR lower, and then the SKS; the total should come in just under or just over $400, depending on how savvy a shopper you are. I want something good but I'm a college student and don't want to spend a ton on one either.You're setting yourself up to catch BRD (Black Rifle Disease). I just spent $1200 on an AR a few months ago, and I've still got upgrades I want to perform on it. There are several members here who have some rifles worth near or over $4000. It's not a wallet-friendly disease.
I appreciate the help|
The ban has been and gone. If, and I stress if, a new ban comes up there will be plenty of notice. It will most likely not be anything like the old ban as it was pretty well documented that it did nothing to deter crime. If a ban is going to come up they will surely make it even more restrictive than the last one. I agree with the high capacity magazines, but there is also nothing stopping them from banning high cap mags altogehter. Take ohio law for example. It is not illegal to buy, sell, or possess mags capable of holding more than 30 rounds, but the second you put them into a gun it makes said gun illegal unless it is covered under NFA title2. How much money could the feds pick up with tax stamps on every firearm. Who's to say they don't bump up the price on NFA tax stamps. Their whole purpose in the beginning was to make it financially impossible for evryone to own the "special" weapons. Anyway its impossible to predict the way they will try to attack your rights. I would just purchase what you want when you can afford it and wait to preempt any type of ban until it is more imenent |
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What in the world would make you think that a ban would go back into effect just because a particular candidate gets elected? Were you sound asleep through your ENTIRE civics class?  Do you have the FAINTEST idea how laws are enacted?  No new ban will happen unless it goes through the WHOLE PROCESS, from introduced bill to being passed in both the House and the Senate, and then on to the President for a no-sign, a sign, or a veto. (A no-sign still becomes law, 10 days after submittal to the President.) You seriously need to bone up on what you missed in your civics class. CJ |
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The '94-04 bill was all about configuration. The raw purchase date of a lower meant nothing, what was important was the configuration. The only guns grandfathered in were those meeting the definition of a 'Semi-Automatic Assault Weapon' as of Sept 13, 1994. If you had a stripped lower, it couldn't be 'built' as a 'Semi-Automatic Assault Weapon' during the ban. Many agreed that the way it was written, you had the burden of proof, not the state. I expect an attempt at gun control late in the 1st year of an Obama administration. However, Heller is on our side this time, and it has some teeth. Also remember that th '94 was passed in a pre-internet era, where the senators and reps could do things weeks before it made it to the press. |
OK - so let me ask this question : Is there any doubt that a Democrat controlled House and Senate would hesitate to push through another, stricter assault weapons ban? Its as good as done if the Dems take the White House IMO. Obama will push for it and will get what he wants. J223... |
Bad advice if the new ban is anything like the old one. According to the old ban the rifle had to be in it's preban condition before the ban was passed. I never heard of anyone popped for that, but if the feds came and said "Prove to us that your rifle was fully built before the ban was enacted", how would you prove it unless your receipt for the upper was before the ban date? |
Look at what California did and you will see one possibility. I for one, think that anything Obama passes will be worse than what California has. An Obama presidency with a Democrat congress will not be a pretty site for this country. You can expect more restrictions on everything from guns, to property rights. Taxes will be increased and lawyers will have free reign of the country. Businesses will move off shores in droves.
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Have a friend and a witness come to your home w/ his complete AR. Put his upper on each of your complete lowers. Take pictures w/ you holding them. All 3 sign affidavids of completion for each rifle in front of a Notary. Keep in a safe place (or 3) like your Atty's office. Then lose as many as you feel comfortable with in a tragic boating accident just in case. |
yeah he/she has not been back to this thread since they posted it. I doubt they have any interests in firearms. Another DU troll. |
Quite right. The second bailout bill was introduced passed and signed in what? Three days? If we end up with Obama and a democratically controlled House and Senate, you think a new AW Ban won't be on the fast track? |
Nobody here has a crystal ball to see into the future. The new AWB will not be a carbon copy of the last one. I think you'll be fine if you assemble your AR over a period of time so long as you have it complete before March or no later than fall of 2009. I don't expect an AWB within the first 100 days of the Obama administration, but than again I can't say for certain. You will most likely have at least until the end of January when Obama is sworn into office. |
This was started in AR Discussions and moved here. I hate trolls as much as the next guy but helping and educating people is what this site is about. Why the hell they moved this thread to GD and not General Firearms is beyond me; the GD antics are not what a potential firearms owner needs to see. |
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Quoted: get a couple lowers. you can always build them later. quote] Ya know, during the ban I built a couple pre-ban rifles outta post ban lowers. Hell, I'll do it again if theres a new AWB. Unless you do a serial # search nobody will know. Magazines would be a better buy IMO. |
No it will likely look like this! We need to be vigilant on this. AWB |
On the subject of learning he/she should start here. Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994. U.S. Department of Justice Fact Sheet The Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994 represents the bipartisan product of six years of hard work. It is the largest crime bill in the history of the country and will provide for 100,000 new police officers, $9.7 billion in funding for prisons and $6.1 billion in funding for prevention programs which were designed with significant input from experienced police officers. The Act also significantly expands the government's ability to deal with problems caused by criminal aliens. The Crime Bill provides $2.6 billion in additional funding for the FBI, DEA, INS, United States Attorneys, and other Justice Department components, as well as the Federal courts and the Treasury Department. Some of the most significant provisions of the bill are summarized below: Substantive Criminal Provisions Assault Weapons Bans the manufacture of 19 military-style assault weapons, assault weapons with specific combat features, "copy-cat" models, and certain high-capacity ammunition magazines of more than ten rounds. Death Penalty Expands the Federal death penalty to cover about 60 offenses, including terrorist homicides, murder of a Federal law enforcement officer, large-scale drug trafficking, drive-by-shootings resulting in death and carjackings resulting in death. Domestic Abusers and Firearms Prohibits firearms sales to and possession by persons subject to family violence restraining orders. Firearms Licensing Strengthens Federal licensing standards for firearms dealers. Fraud Creates new insurance and telemarketing fraud categories. Expands Federal jurisdiction to cases that do not involve the use of delivery services to commit a fraud. Provides special sentencing enhancements for fraud crimes committed against the elderly. Gang Crimes Provides new and stiffer penalties for violent and drug trafficking crimes committed by gang members. Immigration Provides for enhanced penalties for alien smuggling, illegal reentry after deportation and other immigration-related crimes. (See Part II). Juveniles Authorizes adult prosecution of those 13 and older charged with certain serious violent crimes. Prohibits the sale or transfer of a firearm to or possession of certain firearms by juveniles. Triples the maximum penalties for using children to distribute drugs in or near a protected zone, i.e., schools, playgrounds, video arcades and youth centers. Registration of Sexually Violent Offenders Requires states to enact statutes or regulations which require those determined to be sexually violent predators or who are convicted of sexually violent offenses to register with appropriate state law enforcement agencies for ten years after release from prison. Requires state prison officials to notify appropriate agencies of the release of such individuals. Requires states to criminally punish those who fail to register. States which fail to establish registration systems may have Federal grant money reduced. Repeat Sex Offenders Doubles the maximum term of imprisonment for repeat sex offenders convicted of Federal sex crimes. Three Strikes Mandatory life imprisonment without possibility of parole for Federal offenders with three or more convictions for serious violent felonies or drug trafficking crimes. Victims of Crime Allows victims of Federal violent and sex crimes to speak at the sentencing of their assailants. Strengthens requirements for sex offenders and child molesters to pay restitution to their victims. Improves the Federal Crime Victims' Fund and the victim-related programs it supports. Other Creates new crimes or enhances penalties for: drive-by-shootings, use of semi-automatic weapons, sex offenses, crimes against the elderly, interstate firearms trafficking, firearms theft and smuggling, arson, hate crimes and interstate domestic violence. Immigration Initiatives The Crime Bill contains specialized enforcement provisions respecting immigration and criminal aliens. Those programs are highlighted here: $1.2 billion for border control, criminal alien depor.tations, asylum reform and a criminal alien tracking center. $1.8 billion to reimburse states for incarceration of illegal criminal aliens. (See State Criminal Alien Assistance Program (SCAAP) Grants in Section III). Enhanced penalties for failure to depart the United States after a deportation order or reentry after deportation. Expedited deportation for aliens who are not lawful permanent residents and who are convicted of aggravated felonies. Statutory authority for abused spouses and spouses with abused children to petition for permanent residency or suspension of deportation. Grant Programs For 1995 Most of these programs are authorized for six years beginning October 1, 1994. Some are formula grants, awarded to states or localities based on population, crime rate or some other combination of factors. Many are competitive grants. All grants will require an application process and are administered by the Department of Justice unless otherwise noted. As always, all funds for the years 1996-2000 are subject to appropriation by the Congress. Brady Implementation Competitive grant program for states to upgrade criminal history records keeping so as to permit compliance with the Brady Act. $ 1 00 million appropriated in 1995. In addition, the Brady Act authorizes $1 00 million for FY 1996. $50 million of this amount is authorized to be expended from the Violent Crime Control Act Trust Fund. Byrne Grants Formula grant program for states for use in more than 20 law enforcement purposes, including state and local drug task force efforts. $450 million appropriated for the formula grant program in 1995. $550 million authorized in 1996-2000 for both formula and discretionary. Community Policing Competitive grant program (COPS Program) to put 100,000 police officers on the streets in community policing programs. $1.3 billion available in 1995. $7.5 billion authorized in 1996-2000. Community Schools Formula grant program administered by the Department of Health and Human Services for supervised afterschool, weekend, and summer programs for at-risk youth. $25.9 million available in 1995. $567 million authorized in 1995-2000. Correctional Facilities/Boot Camps Formula and competitive grant program for state corrections agencies to build and operate correctional facilities, including boot camps and other alternatives to incarceration, to insure that additional space will be available to put - and keep - violent offenders incarcerated. Fifty percent of money to be set aside for those states which adopt truth-in-sentencing laws (violent offenders must serve at least 85% of their sentence) or which meet other conditions. $24.5 million in competitive funds available for boot camps in 1995. $7.9 billion authorized in 1996.2000. Drug Courts Competitive grant program to support state and local drug courts which provide supervision and specialized services to offenders with rehabilitation potential. $29 million available in 1995. $971 million authorized in 1996-2000. Family and Community Endeavor Schools Competitive grants program administered by the Department of Education for localities and community organizations to help improve the overall development of at-risk youth living in poor and high-crime communities. This program is for both in-school and after-school activities. $11 million available in 1995. $232 million authorized in 1996-2000. Hotline Competitive grant program administered by the Department of Health and Human Services to establish a National Domestic Violence Hotline. $1 million authorized in 1995. $2 million authorized in 1996-2000. Prevention Council Provides funding for the President's Prevention Council to coordinate new and existing crime prevention programs. $1.5 million available in 1995. $88.5 million authorized for competitive grants in 1996-2000. SCAAP Grants Formula grant program to reimburse states for the cost of incarcerating criminal aliens. $130 million available in 1995. $1.67 billion authorized in 1996-2000. Violence Against Women Formula grant program to support police and prosecutor efforts and victims services in cases involving sexual violence or domestic abuse, and for other programs which strengthen enforcement and provide services to victims in such cases. $26 million available in 1995. $774 million for formula grants and over $200 million for competitive grants authorized in 1996-2000. Grant Programs For 1996-2000 All programs available in 1995 are continued. All programs are administered by the Department of Justice unless otherwise noted. Funding for 1996-2000 is, as always, subject to appropriation by the Congress. Battered Women's Shelters Competitive grant program administered by the Department of Health and Human Services for battered women's shelters and other domestic violence prevention activities. $325 million authorized. Capital Improvements to Prevent Crime in Public Parks Competitive grant program administered by the Department of Interior for states and localities for crime prevention programs in national and public parks. $15 million authorized. Community Economic Partnership Competitive program administered by the Department of Health and Human Services for lines of credit to community development corporations to stimulate business and employment opportunities for low-income, unemployed and underemployed individuals. $270 million authorized. Crime Prevention Block Grants $377 million authorized for a new Local Crime Prevention Block Grant program to be distributed to local governments to be used as local needs dictates. Authorized programs include: anti-gang programs, sports leagues, boys and girls clubs, partnerships (triads) between the elderly and law enforcement, police partnerships for children and youth skills programs. Delinquent and At-Risk-Youth Competitive grant program for public or private non profit organizations to support the development and operation of projects to provide residential services to youth, aged 11 to 19, who have dropped out of school, have come into contact with the juvenile justice system or are at risk of either. $36 million authorized. DNA Analysis Competitive grant program for states and localities to develop or improve DNA identification capabilities. $40 million authorized. An additional $25 million is authorized to the FBI for DNA identification programs. Drug Treatment $383 million for prison drug treatment programs, including $270 million in formula grants for states. Education and Prevention to Reduce Sexual Assaults Against Women Competitive grant program administered by the Department of Health and Human Services to fund rape prevention and education programs in the form of educational seminars, hotlines, training programs for professionals and the preparation of informational materials. $205 million authorized. Local Partnership Act Formula grant program administered by the Department of Housing and Urban Development for localities to enhance education, provide substance abuse treatment and fund job programs to prevent crimes. $1.6 billion authorized. Model Intensive Grants Competitive grant program for model crime prevention programs targeted at high-crime neighborhoods. Up to 15 cities will be selected. $625 million authorized. Police Corps Competitive funding for the Police Corps (college scholarships for students who agree to serve as police officers), and formula grants to states for scholarships to in-service law enforcement officers. $100 million authorized for Police Corps, and $ 1 00 million authorized for in-service law enforcement scholarships. Prosecutors Competitive grant program for state and local courts, prosecutors and public defenders. $150 million authorized. Rural Law Enforcement Formula grant program for rural anti-crime and drug enforcement efforts, including task forces. $240 million authorized. Technical Automation Competitive grant program to support technological improvements for law enforcement agencies and other activities to improve law enforcement training and information systems. $130 million authorized. Urban Recreation For At-Risk-youth Competitive grant program administered by the Department of Interior for localities to provide recreation facilities and services in areas with high crime rates and to provide such services in other areas to at-risk-youth. $4.5 million authorized. For More Information For further information about the Violent Crime and law Enforcement Act of 1994, contact the: Department of Justice Response Center 1-800-421-6770 In the Washington, DC metropolitan area: 202-307-1480 October 24,1994 NCJ FS000067 |
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Well I appreciate all the advice. I understand that if (and hopefully that stays an if and not a definite) there is another ban passed it won't be exactly like the old one, but my question was more just trying to get a feel for what it was like under the old ban. As far as the AR goes, it sounds like a pretty good idea to pick up a lower and a couple of magazines, although I get the feeling once those come in I won't be able to stop myself from buying the rest hinking.gif I saw the link that Gilenus posted and looked at some of the receivers, doesn't look too bad for the price. Does anyone know the quality of those lowers however? It doesn't say a brand and I just want to make sure that it's going to be good quality if/when I do order it. As far as magazines go, is there one in particular that's better than another? I was looking at this site and saw the Magpul 30rd for $14.99, I liked the price and the style. Is there anything that I should look for or stay away from? And for the last question, I saw the recommendations for the SKS, AK, and Saiga, is there anything else that isn't too horribly expensive that would be a nice rifle besides an AR? I saw an XCR which looked amazing but it's way out of my budget for now at least. I hate being the noob around here, but I guess I've gotta start somewhere. I plan on continuing to research everything relating to what I want, but I appreciate the help from you guys. Oh and I do agree with everybody who is frightened by the thought of what a Dem controlled Congess and Obama as president could do...I'll start buying up weapons and build an underground bunker and hope the time goes fast Feel free to join me if you're in the area. |
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What was it like during the ban era? Well, it inspired a great deal of creativity and diversity in the AR market. Giving credit where it's due. Let me see if I can remember the specifics of the ban in general terms. A banned assault rifle had: A detachable magazine and more than two of the following features: Collapsible or folding stock Pistol grip Bayonet lug Flash hider Threaded muzzle designed to accept a silencer or flash hider My favorite rifle TODAY is very nearly compliant with the terms of that ban, except that it does have a muzzle brake that is designed specifically to accept an Ops Inc. 12th Model silencer. But my "ban era" A2 near-clone rifle, with a plain non-threaded muzzle and no muzzle device, was frighteningly accurate, in part because of the lack of a muzzle device. A plain crowned muzzle is good for accuracy! To be honest about it, I've put a regular A2 flash hider on it since the ban ended, and I think accuracy has suffered very slightly. My groups aren't quite as tight. But I'm not shooting as much as I'd like to, as well. And I've change my target load specs. The ban wasn't so much a hardship as it was an inconvenient pain in the ass that kept us from building up new rifles that looked EXACTLY like we wanted them to. But it didn't keep us from having and shooting some VERY functional and good shooting rifles. CJ |