[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Autistic 15yo TASERed (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 9/20/2007 10:39:33 AM EDT
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Tuesday, September 18, 2007 Deputies hit autistic teen with stun gun 15-year-old boy hit with Taser after officers say he ran in and out of traffic in North Tustin. By GREH HARDESTY and RYAN HAMMILL The Orange County Register TUSTIN – Taylor Karras didn’t want to go home. The 15-year-old autistic boy didn’t want to deal with his parents, his case workers at the Regional Center of Orange County or anyone else. So Monday around 11:30 a.m., he bolted from the social services center in Westminster and started walking. He walked for 15 miles down a busy boulevard, picking up snacks he found on the ground. The sun turned his cheeks and forearms pink. Somewhere along the way, as Karras headed down 17th Street in the direction of his house in North Tustin, he found a shopping cart and fashioned himself as a homeless person. After going missing for 10 hours, Karras found himself, around 9:30 p.m., lying face down on Newport Avenue, across the street and within eyesight of his home. He was handcuffed from behind after being felled by a Taser gun, and surrounded by sheriff’s deputies. Tuesday, Karras was back home after being released to his parents with no charges filed and suffering no serious injuries. But Karras’ parents believe deputies overreacted when they responded to reports of a suspicious person near a bus stop – that they had no reason to fear the neatly dressed, unarmed teen who, at 5 feet, 11 inches and bearded, appears older. Karras’ parents say they are mystified that deputies did not seem aware that he was the focus of a missing-person’s report that day. “I was afraid of something,’’ Karras said Tuesday when asked why he ran from a deputy. A sheriff’s spokesman said deputies possibly saved Karras’ life by using nonlethal force to stop him from running into traffic. They said a deputy fired the Taser when Taylor ignored their orders and started running. A deputy sent a jolt of electricity into Taylor’s back a second time when the boy didn’t respond to orders to show his hands, They feared he might have been concealing a weapon. The incident underscores both the unpredictable nature of police work and the challenges people with mental disabilities like Karras face when caught in situations they cannot comprehend. Sheriff’s officials said, the moppy-haired teen with wire-frame glasses and a near-constant grin is lucky to be alive. “It (deputies’ action) was necessary,’’ sheriff’s spokesman Jim Amormino said. Karras was diagnosed with autism at 5½. Years of professional intervention have developed him into a high-functioning autistic teen. He just started classes as a sophomore at Foothill High School. Monday’s meeting was prompted by Karras’ refusal to stop harassing a person online, his parents said. His mother took him to the social services center to get an aide to monitor him at home when they were busy with work and their other children. At first, Doriss Karras thought her son had gone to the bathroom when he went missing at the Regional Center of Orange County, at 13950 Milton Ave. A missing person’s report was filed, Westminster police Lt. Bill Lewis said. Sheriff's deputies received a call around 9:30 p.m. about a suspicious person at Newport Avenue and La Loma Drive in unincorporated Santa Ana. A deputy saw Karras pushing around a shopping cart. The teen ran across Newport Avenue, and two cars swerved to avoid him, Amormino said. Asked Tuesday about what happened, Taylor Karras said he fell to the asphalt in the middle of Newport. A Sheriff’s Department official showed up later that night at Doriss and William Karras’ house to apologize. But the official told them the deputies had the right to subdue their son. His parents disagree. “They (deputies) should have been on alert that there was a missing autistic teenager in the area,’’ William Karras said. |
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Oh brother.... The deputies should have known there was a missing child who looked like an adult, and should have known that a soft word would stop the kid from running into traffic again....  "But...but....He's autistic!" Yes. So I guess what the deputies SHOULD have done was 1. Walk away and ASSUME everything was going to be fine, and that he wouldn't get run over by running into traffic again 2. Use batons instead 3. Attempt to go hands on and run more of a risk of hurting the kid |
The problem seems to be that his parents are too stupid to recognize that a runaway is not going to be a high priority for the police in the area, and that threatening behavior from suspects is met with defensive behavior from police officers. |
I have a son who is autistic, and if it was his life in danger vs. getting tased..I would choose tasered. But, I know where he is 24/7. |
I know very little about autism, but is this the way a typical "high functioning" autistic person acts? (Running away from loved ones without notice, eating stuff off the ground, acting homeless, running from police, etc.) |
No... it's the way a 15-year-old child with a behavior problem acts. |
They should have shot him, and saved the public from a kid thats not watched enough, has parents that say "my kids autistic, he doesn't know better" and make excuses for his behaivor, and a person that will probably grow up to be a criminal and hurt (finantually or physicaly) many people in his life!!!! Parents should be able to control their brats!!!! |
while some exhibit similar symptoms they all act differently. one might wet the bed, others won't. one might eat only one thing and others will eat everything. one will be scared of the wind while others are not. one might be violent and the other not. some never wnat to leave the house, but like most kids they want to see what the outside world is like. it is not simplistic like their thinking. depends on the person. |
High functioning means he is able to go places and accomplish small tasks but is still very out of it. He probably didnt understand a conflict with the police and may have been taught to avoid any situation he doesnt understand by walking or running away from it. Thats my experience from those i know with autism. |
Indeed. The parents bear most of the blame for this but the kid is also lucky that he doesn't have a medical condition that becomes fatal when tazed.
I've heard this statement a number of times when justifying use of the taser. Can you go into some detail? It seems that a couple of cops grabbing the arms of a suspect would be less risky to the suspect than having voltage course through his body. |
hands on is pc for physical force. |
When you grab a suspect by the arms they do not typically just stop all resistance and gently place their hands behind their back. Instead they try to pull away or otherwise struggle and the end result is usually falling face down on the pavement with two cops falling on top of you. shoulder and back injuries are common. As well as lessor bumps and abrasions. |
I'd be considered a high function autistic person and from my experiences, only a fucking moron does that. |
 WTF ? |
Deej, you are what I would consider "high functioning". I have a 14 year-old neighbor boy that is autistic. He is clearly NOT high functioning. |
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The things I'd love to tell you, but won't because of the CoC. If i was to speak my mind about your comment, you can guarantee I would be banned. Your talking about shooting a handicapped kid! Have you ever met a severely Autistic person? A person that is mentally detached from the world around them? My son is Autistic, there is a wide variety of disorders, some being more debilitating than others. Like the inability to talk, or a very limited vocabulary like my son. That aren't being brats, it is a mental handicap beyond their control! I don't blame the cops for this, they were doing what they were trained for and had no idea this kid was handicapped. How could they know? Your statement is so stupid, I seriously hope karma bites you on the ass for it. It's people like you that make it hard on parents like me, passing judgment on things you obviously don't understand. This particular situation is tragic, but there is no solution for it, be thankful our LEOs are properly equipped with such devices. |
Far to common. Its costs taxpayers a fortune in WC claims. You take a middle aged cop, wearing 20pounds of gear on a stiff leather belt and a tight wool uniform, he's probably not in great shape and just spent the last 7 hours sitting in a car. Then suddenly he goes from that sedentary seated position to a short foot chase that ends with tackle/push to the ground and a grappling match. Its a recipie for lower back injury. Good physical conditionaing helps. Being thin & flexible helps. Nylon duty gear helps. But people still get hurt. We had a Sgt who is an olympic class cyclist in amazing shape go out for 6 months with a shoulder injury that required surgery after struggling to cugff a 17yo kid. We had a young stud miss close to a year after a kneee injury requiring surgery after jumping over a block wall during as foot chase. So even being in shape doesnt always prevent injuries. But TASER use is proven to reduce both suspect and arresting officer injuries in my own agency. In fact the admin was reluctant to issue TASERs. After 6-months of use there was such a drop in injuries that now we are required to carry them. It went from You can carry it, but we dont like it. To, you shall carry it. All because of the decrease in injury to suspects and officers both. I wish we had the TASER option 15 years ago. I would'nt wake up every morning with back, neck, shoulder and wrist pain. The new guys dont know how good they have it and how much their quality of life is going to be preserved by that simple little tool. |
yeah. like we ever get that much info at briefing or during the middle of a shift. nice job, walk a mile in our shoes. |
There's your problem right there. He looks like a hippy! |
If that was the end of it, you might be right.... But what if the kid doesn't become compliant when the cops lay hands on him? What if they literally have to wrestle him under control? Doing that can lead to all sorts of injuries both to the suspect and the officers, and it can actually make the situation more dangerous. What if while you are trying to wrestle this kid he starts grabbing at an officer's pistol? The situation just escalated to lethal at that point, and the likely response would be stepping all the way up the UOF scale to the baton/ASP. Going hands on with somebody isn't as neat and clean as many people believe. In many cases the taser is the means of force that is least likely to result in injuries to officers and suspects. The taser isn't like being tickled with a feather, but it doesn't run the risks that having 400 pounds of cop trying to overpower someone with brute force does either. |
Not quite. "Hands on" means the officers attempting to use their bare hands to bring compliance and control to the suspect. Sometimes this is broken down further into "soft" and "hard" hands. Soft hands being restraint holds and possibly even joint locks....hard hands being strikes with fists, knees, elbows, etc. Hands on isn't always possible or preferable when dealing with the idea of trying to bring a suspect under control. |
And when you get a real gamer whom you have to really wrestle with you can end up breaking bones and dislocating shoulders in attempts to get them under control....or you can just let them ride the electric pony for a couple of seconds, cuff them while they are stunned, and then you have all sorts of better control options. |
He's got crazy eyes. 
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Exactly. People expect cops to be omniscient, or expect that because they told A person in the department that instantly everyone in that department knows whats up. Such people have no clue. |
I usually find these threads much more humorus, in this situation I don't think the kid deserved it, however, the cops had no other choice. It's nobody's fault, the kid didn't know better, and neither could the officers. (Know he was autistic) Even if they did, I'm not sure how it could have been handled any better. Everyone losses. As already mentioned, any other method of detainment would have been worse. I just worry the poor kid is going to have a fear of LEOs from now on, hopefully mom and dad wake up, and assure him that police officers are good, Maybe a local uniformed officer would be kind enough to have dinner with them and show the child he is no threat. Tragic on all counts. No real villains in this story, just a pair of upset and confused parents. |
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The sheer ignorance, callousness and all-around ass-hattery of some of your responses exposes a complete lack of understanding the autistic personality, and some very, very dark souls. You know who you are, and shame the fu** on you. I really wonder about some folks. |
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Tuesday, September 18, 2007 Taser facts often lost GORDON DILLOW Register columnist [email protected] The story on this page about sheriff's deputies using a Taser on a 15-year-old autistic youth as he darted into traffic will probably raise a lot of questions. Some people will say that it was excessive force, while others will argue that the deputies were only trying to prevent the young man from getting hurt. I don't know all the facts about that incident. But I do know that there are a lot of misconceptions out there about Tasers – and that too often, Tasers get a bum rap. Consider, for example, the reaction to the post-Taser death of a 25-year-old Anaheim man last week. According to police, the man was fighting with his wife -- apparently he had forgotten that there was a restraining order against him – and when officers arrived at the scene they found him choking her. During the confrontation an officer shot the man with a Taser, a battery-powered, pistol-like device that fires two small electrode-tipped darts that deliver a jolt of electricity designed to momentarily incapacitate a suspect so he can be handcuffed. Using a Taser against a violent or physically resisting suspect isn't at all unusual. In Anaheim, where almost all patrol officers are issued Tasers, it happens about once or twice a week. Throughout Orange County Tasers have been used by police officers hundreds and perhaps even thousands of times in recent years – and as in the case of the 15-year-old boy, almost always without any lasting ill effects. But what was unusual in the Anaheim case was that after being transported to a hospital for a routine post-Taser checkup, the man was pronounced dead. As you might expect, news stories about the man's death implied – without actually saying so – that it was the Taser that killed him. They pointed out that a Taser packs 50,000 volts – which sounds like it would completely fry a guy – and that there have been several other Taser-related deaths in Orange County in the past few years. All of which is accurate. But it's just not exactly true. Yes, the external voltage from the two Taser darts can range up to 50,000 volts, but the amperage that enters the body is extremely low – only a tiny, tiny fraction of the jolt you would get from a heart defibrillator. It's enough to cause a temporary loss of neuromuscular control, but while it's not at all pleasant, it's not enough to kill you. In fact, if it were enough to kill you, there would be hundreds of thousands of Taser-related dead people already. According to the manufacturer, Tasers have been used almost 600,000 times by law enforcement officers on suspects in the field and in "volunteer exposures," usually as part of police training. True, critics point out that about 200 people have died nationwide after being shot with Tasers by police in the past five years – again, this out of hundreds of thousands of Taser uses. But in virtually every case, medical examiners have ruled that the Taser wasn't the primary cause of death, that the deaths were caused by other factors – almost always drug use. The other Orange County post-Taser deaths followed that pattern. A burglar in Tustin who was cranked up on cocaine and heroin. A guy in Brea who was high on methamphetamine. A Laguna Beach jail inmate who was high on cocaine. A Santa Ana meth user who was Taser-ed after a half-mile foot pursuit. In every case, the deaths were caused by drugs, not Tasers. As far as the Anaheim Taser case goes, it's too early to say what killed the man; the District Attorney's office is still investigating. But I'm guessing that the death will come back as drug-related, just like the others. Meanwhile, you have to ask yourself, what if the cops didn't have Tasers? Pepper spray is often ineffective, batons can break bones, shotgun bean-bags can cause serious injuries, and of course bullets are usually lethal. While I can't imagine that I'm going to get drugged up and fight with the cops anytime soon, if I did I'd rather get zapped with a Taser than whacked with a baton any day – much less get shot. Although he can't comment on the recent Taser incidents, Anaheim Police Officer John Kirstenpfad, who trains other officers in the use of the Taser – and who has been voluntarily Taser-ed himself – puts it this way: "The Taser has decreased injuries to suspects, and to officers," he says. "It's a life saving device." Now, I'm not suggesting that Tasers be used on jaywalking grandmas or kids riding bikes without helmets – or perhaps even on an out-of-control autistic teenager who's running into traffic. Like any police use-of-force, each incident has to be judged on its own merits. Still, the statistics make it pretty clear that Tasers are not the instruments of death that they're often portrayed to be. And if you get high on dangerous drugs and get in a fight with the cops and get Taser-ed and then die, it almost certainly wasn't the Taser that killed you. Instead, through your own reckless behavior, you managed to kill yourself. |