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Posted: 12/3/2022 10:39:06 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: First payload data I've seen so far. I was surprised to see single axle main gear. Carpet bombing is clearly a way of the past. That's ok, knife bombs are pretty badass too. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: While the Raider may resemble the B-2, once you get inside, the similarities stop, said Kathy Warden, chief executive of Northrop, which is building the bomber. 'The way it operates internally is extremely advanced compared to the B-2, because the technology has evolved so much in terms of the computing capability that we can now embed in the software of the B-21,' Warden said. Northrop beat out a team comprised of Boeing and Lockheed Martin when it won the 2015 contract to make the bomber, alongside suppliers including engine maker Pratt & Whitney, Collins Aerospace, GKN Aerospace, BAE Systems and Spirit Aerosystems. The rollout at Northrop's Plant 42 in Palmdale provided the first photographs of the new bomber. So far, only artist renderings have been published. Six of the planes, which is to have its first flight in mid-2023, are in various stages of assembly. More than 8,000 people from Northrop Grumman, industry partners and the Air Force work on the program today which consists of more than 400 suppliers in 40 states. THE B-21'S NEWEST FEATURES FOR MODERN WARFARE The B-21's features groundbreaking stealth technology built on top of more than three decades and six generations of US bomber innovation. Northrop boasts that the new aircraft will included advance materials that will greatly reduced infrared, acoustic, electromagnetic, visual and radar signatures, making it virtually undetectable. The bomber's stealth tech is expected to counteract even the latest Russian and Chinese surface-to-air missiles, something '90 percent of the nation's current bomber fleet is incapable of doing,' the company said. The B-21 will also include a 'digital bomb bay', which will allow the aircraft to integrate new weapons faster than ever before. It ensures that the bomber can be readily and affordably upgraded. https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/12/02/16/65178107-11495107-image-a-28_1669999060614.jpg https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/12/02/16/65172995-11495107-image-a-20_1669998989835.jpg A FULLY REMOTE STEALTH BOMBER Unlike its predecessor, the B-2 Spirit, the B-21 Raider is expected to allow for unmanned missions. While the current plans for the Raider include a crew of two, the Air Force has said that future aircraft must be able to be completely remote. Representatives for Northrop called the B-21 'pioneering' and 'technological excellence.' 'The B-21 is the most advanced military aircraft ever built and is a product of pioneering innovation and technological excellence,' said Northrop sector vice president and general manager Dough Young. More I was interested in the huge tires necessary to keep the bearing loads low enough for most runways. (California Bearing Ratio, FAA Pavement Classification Ratio, and so on.) The B-2 easily carries more than 40000 pounds; this load is about 59000 pounds -  B-2 Stealth Bomber drops two GBU-57A/B Massive Ordnance Penetrator (MOP) bombs |
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Posted: 12/3/2022 11:55:13 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I hope they build more than 20 or so of them this time. A craft incorporating the lessons of decades of B2 and F22 service. It's going to be interesting... i'm going to put my money on probably even less.... |
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Posted: 12/3/2022 11:56:08 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They want 100 which means they'll probably build 10, while taking money for a 100 |
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Posted: 12/3/2022 12:07:49 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: which means they'll probably build 10, while taking money for a 100 Unless everyone is lying, B-21 development is on time and on budget. In addition, manufacturing will be a fixed price contract, which is why USAF and Northrop Grumman are tracking the agreed-to price against inflation. Boeing, for example, may be woefully underperforming on KC-46 and the new Air Force One, but they are eating the cost overruns. |
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Posted: 12/3/2022 1:37:22 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sad plane is sad Industrial design matters. Things with a face. Cat version has whiskers. |
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Posted: 12/3/2022 1:44:34 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I didn't say it was. |
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Posted: 12/3/2022 1:46:46 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Chinese version has same windows. But inverted. Industrial design matters. Things with a face. Cat version has whiskers. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Sad plane is sad Industrial design matters. Things with a face. Cat version has whiskers. |
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Posted: 12/3/2022 5:31:20 PM EDT
[#8]
New pic
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Posted: 12/3/2022 6:20:45 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: i'm going to put my money on probably even less.... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I hope they build more than 20 or so of them this time. A craft incorporating the lessons of decades of B2 and F22 service. It's going to be interesting... i'm going to put my money on probably even less.... We will end up with 200. Especially because most will arrive after a likely war with China and be needed to replace combat losses to the B-52 fleet. |
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Posted: 12/3/2022 6:28:23 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryLol! Bite your tongue… |
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Posted: 12/3/2022 6:29:34 PM EDT
[#11]
So we shall soon have a nuclear capable, heavy, stealth aircraft with a cute anime face.
I really couldn't have asked for more.  If the Japanese, Australians and British wind up buying their own, mores the better. |
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Posted: 12/3/2022 6:32:30 PM EDT
[#12]
The Buff could have been replaced long ago by developing weaponized variants of the C-17, C-130 and tankers. If you need a bomber to fire stand off weapons, which is what the B-52 is good for in major combat, you have to keep it ready at all times at enormous cost. Pushing those out the back of cargo aircraft would enable the savings to be repurposed to more cargo aircraft, which is far more useful.
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Posted: 12/3/2022 7:00:55 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Buff could have been replaced long ago by developing weaponized variants of the C-17, C-130 and tankers. If you need a bomber to fire stand off weapons, which is what the B-52 is good for in major combat, you have to keep it ready at all times at enormous cost. Pushing those out the back of cargo aircraft would enable the savings to be repurposed to more cargo aircraft, which is far more useful. The BUFFs have crazy amounts of airframe time left; they were super overbuilt and if we're not using them for low level penetration the actual loads on the aircraft are basically nothing (not actually nothing, I get it). The bomb bays are huge and are much more efficient at delivering payloads than dumping them out the back ramp of an airlifter. Plus, the amount of work required to weaponize an airlifter would be way more expensive than any of us can imagine. The BUFF is just the right platform for the mission. Besides, if Air Mobility Command has access to these weaponized airlifters as actual airlift assets, it will take an act of Congress to get them to give them up to Global Strike Command. Airlift assets are always in critically short supply and are task-saturated. |
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Posted: 12/3/2022 8:36:25 PM EDT
[#14]
Maintaining and upgrading a whole airframe basically for the off chance that you’ll need to use a very limited number of stand-off weapons isn’t a great deal for us. Roll that shit out of the back of cargo aircraft. If that could have gotten us an additional 100 C-17s we would be much better off.
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Posted: 12/3/2022 8:41:56 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Maintaining and upgrading a whole airframe basically for the off chance that you'll need to use a very limited number of stand-off weapons isn't a great deal for us. Roll that shit out of the back of cargo aircraft. If that could have gotten us an additional 100 C-17s we would be much better off. In the logic of using mobility aircraft to execute the nuclear mission, what then is the purpose of submarines? Should we scratch those and buy more Boston whalers? |
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Posted: 12/3/2022 8:56:28 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What problem does 100 C-17s solve? Quote HistoryQuoted: What problem does 100 C-17s solve? Shortage of mobility aircraft. In the logic of using mobility aircraft to execute the nuclear mission, what then is the purpose of submarines? Should we scratch those and buy more Boston whalers? Not a like comparison. The B-52 can do three things in a peer or near peer war. Fire stand off munitions against land targets, or against ships, or lay mines. You don’t need to operate the only 65ish aircraft of type to do that, and you can use mobility aircraft in peacetime also. Whereas submarines have a dozen uses and a whaler replaces none of them. |
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Posted: 12/3/2022 9:26:41 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Shortage of mobility aircraft. Not a like comparison. The B-52 can do three things in a peer or near peer war. Fire stand off munitions against land targets, or against ships, or lay mines. You don’t need to operate the only 65ish aircraft of type to do that, and you can use mobility aircraft in peacetime also. Whereas submarines have a dozen uses and a whaler replaces none of them. Naval mining is gonna be a hot ticket soon. |
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Posted: 12/3/2022 9:27:04 PM EDT
[#18]
Did they build in a cot for crew naps?
I remember reading B2 didn't have anything so the crews started shoe horning a cot in the cockpit somehow so they could do those 20 hour missions |
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Posted: 12/3/2022 9:31:06 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Naval mining is gonna be a hot ticket soon. Yup and the C-17 can do it. |
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Posted: 12/3/2022 9:44:56 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Did they build in a cot for crew naps? I remember reading B2 didn't have anything so the crews started shoe horning a cot in the cockpit somehow so they could do those 20 hour missions I believe not only does the B2 have a cot, it also has a small shitter 
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Posted: 12/3/2022 9:48:32 PM EDT
[#21]
My proposed B-52 replacement aircraft would have as many crew comforts as possible.
Bunk beds, big ones and a really nice bathroom. Perhaps even a shower. It probably wouldn't fly too often but when it did, it would be a loooong flight. |
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Posted: 12/3/2022 9:49:38 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've always told my wife, if I have to take business trips to Las Vegas, don't ask questions but be happy for me. I don't think that's exactly going to happen however... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I don't believe that it hasn't flown yet. When can we see the Aurora, Dark Star and Brilliant Buzzard? We the people paid for them so give us a look. I've always told my wife, if I have to take business trips to Las Vegas, don't ask questions but be happy for me. I don't think that's exactly going to happen however... I would love to go to Vegas too! The speculation is that the program refereed to as "Brilliant Buzzard" may have been the the X37 space plane. I would be thrilled to see a a Sr-71 successor or rumored Aurora type aircraft. |
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Posted: 12/3/2022 9:59:02 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryMaybe now, but not always. Was at Edwards in the 80’s when F117 and B2 were being developed. Seems like we kept those secrets well. |
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Posted: 12/3/2022 10:07:19 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I believe not only does the B2 have a cot, it also has a small shitter Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Did they build in a cot for crew naps? I remember reading B2 didn't have anything so the crews started shoe horning a cot in the cockpit somehow so they could do those 20 hour missions I believe not only does the B2 have a cot, it also has a small shitter To me that was a given. If I can't pee or take dump while eating cheetos on a 20 hour mission to bomb Tehran I ain't going |
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Posted: 12/3/2022 10:08:20 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The BUFFs have crazy amounts of airframe time left; they were super overbuilt and if we're not using them for low level penetration the actual loads on the aircraft are basically nothing (not actually nothing, I get it). The bomb bays are huge and are much more efficient at delivering payloads than dumping them out the back ramp of an airlifter. Plus, the amount of work required to weaponize an airlifter would be way more expensive than any of us can imagine. The BUFF is just the right platform for the mission. Besides, if Air Mobility Command has access to these weaponized airlifters as actual airlift assets, it will take an act of Congress to get them to give them up to Global Strike Command. Airlift assets are always in critically short supply and are task-saturated. We have a rack that parachutes out the back of a C17 and launches cruise missiles out the bottom as it floats down under the canopy. |
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Posted: 12/3/2022 10:15:28 PM EDT
[#26]
 Exclusive First Look: Step inside the cockpit of a B-2 stealth bomber |
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Posted: 12/3/2022 10:15:36 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: To me that was a given. If I can't pee or take dump while eating cheetos on a 20 hour mission to bomb Tehran I ain't going Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Did they build in a cot for crew naps? I remember reading B2 didn't have anything so the crews started shoe horning a cot in the cockpit somehow so they could do those 20 hour missions I believe not only does the B2 have a cot, it also has a small shitter To me that was a given. If I can't pee or take dump while eating cheetos on a 20 hour mission to bomb Tehran I ain't going The B2 and the United States military logistics to support it are just absolutely mind blowing. Imagine being a Warrior in 2022. You grab a cup of coffee and kiss your wife goodbye and drive 20 minutes to your base in Missouri. You get on your plane and just fly for like 12 hours, getting refueled along the way, halfway across the entire planet. You're not terribly worried about getting shot down because they can't target the plane you're flying. You bomb an enemy of your country. You then fly back for another 12 hours. You talk to some guys to debrief You go back home to your wife. |
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Posted: 12/3/2022 10:22:25 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The B2 and the United States military logistics to support it are just absolutely mind blowing. Imagine being a Warrior in 2022. You grab a cup of coffee and kiss your wife goodbye and drive 20 minutes to your base in Missouri. You get on your plane and just fly for like 12 hours, getting refueled along the way, halfway across the entire planet. You're not terribly worried about getting shot down because they can't target the plane you're flying. You bomb an enemy of your country. You then fly back for another 12 hours. You talk to some guys to debrief You go back home to your wife. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Did they build in a cot for crew naps? I remember reading B2 didn't have anything so the crews started shoe horning a cot in the cockpit somehow so they could do those 20 hour missions I believe not only does the B2 have a cot, it also has a small shitter To me that was a given. If I can't pee or take dump while eating cheetos on a 20 hour mission to bomb Tehran I ain't going The B2 and the United States military logistics to support it are just absolutely mind blowing. Imagine being a Warrior in 2022. You grab a cup of coffee and kiss your wife goodbye and drive 20 minutes to your base in Missouri. You get on your plane and just fly for like 12 hours, getting refueled along the way, halfway across the entire planet. You're not terribly worried about getting shot down because they can't target the plane you're flying. You bomb an enemy of your country. You then fly back for another 12 hours. You talk to some guys to debrief You go back home to your wife. Fuck the terrorists, then raw dog fuck the wife, all within 24 hrs..... god I love being an American........ |
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Posted: 12/3/2022 10:30:48 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Maintaining and upgrading a whole airframe basically for the off chance that you'll need to use a very limited number of stand-off weapons isn't a great deal for us. Roll that shit out of the back of cargo aircraft. If that could have gotten us an additional 100 C-17s we would be much better off. That's a ballpark number. The same holds if the weapon starts at 300 knots or 500 knots. Accelerating from zero speed requires tons of energy that isn't spent on range, and worse if the missile is vertical after the drop, tail up or down. |
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Posted: 12/3/2022 10:42:30 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Do you honestly think the DoD or the USAF would use anything 'incredibly vulnerable' on a nuclear capable bomber? Or that a Mac with a USB port can 'hack' into it? m Considering what I've seen the gov do in the past...yes. |
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Posted: 12/3/2022 10:51:07 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Do you understand the benefit of starting a launch with 400 knots heading in the right direction? That's a ballpark number. The same holds if the weapon starts at 300 knots or 500 knots. Accelerating from zero speed requires tons of energy that isn't spent on range, and worse if the missile is vertical after the drop, tail up or down. I do, but you’re talking about a technical and weaponeering challenge and I’m talking about operational and strategic level force structure issues. We’ve traded capacity for capability and something will have to give. |
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Posted: 12/3/2022 11:23:42 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryI like it but I would also like a different angle of the plane instead of different backgrounds. |
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Posted: 12/3/2022 11:25:17 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That sounds incredibly vulnerable… Quote HistoryQuoted: That sounds incredibly vulnerable… don't worry, it's only the shitheap that is kubernetes  DoD is trying to get onboard with "the devops", they call it DSOP ETA PDF from NIST because their website is down, lmao The AirForce implementation is DevStar, which the B21 implements and they're experimenting on other platforms such as the F16 too “Our B-21 team just ran containerized software with Kubernetes on flight-ready hardware! Another step towards ‘DevStar’: our initiative to bring radical autonomy to software development, partnering with Northrop Grumman. Owning the digital OODA [Observe, Orient, Decide, Act] loop or bust!” –Dr. Will Roper, Assistant Secretary of the Air Force for Acquisition, Technology and Logistics May 29, 2020 The DevStar program received heavy criticism from the Air Force’s chief software officer, who resigned last year |
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Posted: 12/4/2022 12:54:29 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryTellin ya, that body has lots of room for payload, fuel, or both. America owns the high ground. |
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Posted: 12/4/2022 1:32:56 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Tellin ya, that body has lots of room for payload, fuel, or both. America owns the high ground. Quote HistoryQuoted: Tellin ya, that body has lots of room for payload, fuel, or both. America owns the high ground. Hopefully both  I've only flown paper airplanes, so I'm not sure how payload works for these. Is the limitation overall weight, or is it more how many mounting points there are for weapons on the internal rotary launchers? IE if it has a 30,000lb payload, can it really hold 120x 250lb Small Diameter Bombs? Or it constrained by mounting points for the bombs? |
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Posted: 12/4/2022 1:34:31 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Industrial design matters. Things with a face. Cat version has whiskers. Its just a function of modern stealth design, where in a somewhat counter-intuitive way, stealth is improved by having various lines/edges be parallel. If you looked at a top view of the aircraft, I'll bet that the edges of the windshield are parallel with the leading edges or one of the trailing edges. Mapping those angles onto the curved shape of the fuselage makes for those shapes when viewed from the front. |
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Posted: 12/4/2022 1:42:08 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I believe not only does the B2 have a cot, it also has a small shitter Yes it does. The pilots take turns napping, etc. I've been in the cockpit of a B-2. It's rather unremarkable, much like the cockpit of an older commercial airliner. And it's pretty dang small. Of course it was also full of things I couldn't ask about...  |
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Posted: 12/4/2022 2:21:01 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: don't worry, it's only the shitheap that is kubernetes DoD is trying to get onboard with "the devops", they call it DSOP ETA PDF from NIST because their website is down, lmao The AirForce implementation is DevStar, which the B21 implements and they're experimenting on other platforms such as the F16 too The DevStar program received heavy criticism from the Air Force’s chief software officer, who resigned last year Holy fuck |
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Posted: 12/4/2022 2:36:43 AM EDT
[#39]
It was a cool event!
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Posted: 12/4/2022 9:44:12 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I do, but you’re talking about a technical and weaponeering challenge and I’m talking about operational and strategic level force structure issues. We’ve traded capacity for capability and something will have to give. We can give them nukes. |
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Posted: 12/4/2022 9:51:15 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hopefully both I've only flown paper airplanes, so I'm not sure how payload works for these. Is the limitation overall weight, or is it more how many mounting points there are for weapons on the internal rotary launchers? IE if it has a 30,000lb payload, can it really hold 120x 250lb Small Diameter Bombs? Or it constrained by mounting points for the bombs? It's both weight and mounting points. I'd be surprised if this thing ever carries SDB; a B61 Mod 12 at 800 pounds would be more realistic. |
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Posted: 12/4/2022 10:09:32 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah it’s really about what the back half looks like. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Looking at a front view it is and it kinda isn't. Yeah it’s really about what the back half looks like. And the sensor suite, the modular design of the avionics, the upgradability - a lot of lessons learned from the B2, the F22, and the F35. It’s supposed to be even more stealthy than any previous aircraft, with better sensors and battlefield awareness than the F35. |
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Posted: 12/4/2022 10:13:10 AM EDT
[#43]
I've seen a few people referring to this thing as "6th gen." Is it really 6th gen or 5th or 5.5?
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Posted: 12/4/2022 10:13:50 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's both weight and mounting points. I'd be surprised if this thing ever carries SDB; a B61 Mod 12 at 800 pounds would be more realistic. Meh. Most of the aircraft it’s replacing are tactical bombers, expect it to carry mostly conventional weapons. |
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Posted: 12/4/2022 10:15:17 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've seen a few people referring to this thing as "6th gen." Is it really 6th gen or 5th or 5.5? |
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Posted: 12/4/2022 11:14:06 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That sounds incredibly vulnerable… Quote HistoryQuoted: The Raider has been designed as an Open Architecture, so that new upgrades can be quickly installed (more or less like new Apps and Updates are made available to a smartphone) and leverages a Cloud infrastructure to more maintainable and sustainable aircraft with lower-cost infrastructure. That sounds incredibly vulnerable… Only a matter of time until someone installs TikTok on it, and the Chi-Coms proceed to land it at Lop Nor. |
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Posted: 12/4/2022 11:25:44 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've seen a few people referring to this thing as "6th gen." Is it really 6th gen or 5th or 5.5? Does it really matter what you call it when it's the most advanced bomber there is? Generations might be relevant when there's something roughly similar to compare it to. |
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Posted: 12/4/2022 11:46:04 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Maybe now, but not always. Was at Edwards in the 80's when F117 and B2 were being developed. Seems like we kept those secrets well. Quote HistoryQuoted: Maybe now, but not always. Was at Edwards in the 80's when F117 and B2 were being developed. Seems like we kept those secrets well. Also, we knew about the B-2 development at Boeing when the Boeing Development Center, south Boeing Field, went Black in late 1980 or early 1981. My cousin worked on the program at the time; I wish I still had the B-2 sweater she gave me.  In other words, it wasn't all that secret at the time. |
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Posted: 12/4/2022 11:48:36 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Its just a function of modern stealth design, where in a somewhat counter-intuitive way, stealth is improved by having various lines/edges be parallel. If you looked at a top view of the aircraft, I'll bet that the edges of the windshield are parallel with the leading edges or one of the trailing edges. Mapping those angles onto the curved shape of the fuselage makes for those shapes when viewed from the front. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Industrial design matters. Things with a face. Cat version has whiskers. Its just a function of modern stealth design, where in a somewhat counter-intuitive way, stealth is improved by having various lines/edges be parallel. If you looked at a top view of the aircraft, I'll bet that the edges of the windshield are parallel with the leading edges or one of the trailing edges. Mapping those angles onto the curved shape of the fuselage makes for those shapes when viewed from the front. If it's an arc, then that means applying the same strategy as the forward edge of the LM RQ-3 Darkstar. I'll leave it at that, and a photo -  We knew about B-2 from commencement of the program. What we didn't know was the flying wing configuration. I was recruited by Northrop to work at the plant in Pico Rivera. Northrop wouldn't pay enough to work in LA. Years later I went to Pico Rivera on a business trip and learned that I dodged a bullet, double the pay would not have been enough. |
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Posted: 12/4/2022 2:13:01 PM EDT
[#50]
probably an accurate 3D render. no surprises and safe guesses, but cool to see from different angles
 America's Invisible New Stealth Bomber - The B-21 Raider |
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