Posted: 3/29/2015 12:14:13 AM EDT
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I was looking at a Umarex Steel Storm bb machine gun for use as cheap backyard entertainment, and noted the complaints about the CO2 system, as well as the rather hefty consumption rate when running one with regular BB gun 12gm CO2 powerlets.
That caused me to wonder the following: Why has no one has adapted airsoft AEG (battery/motor/gears/mainspring/ram air piston) actions for use with regular .177 steel BBs? An AEG based BB machinegun that didn't require CO2 or any compressed gas source, running at low velocity (250-300fps), but with an airsoft AEG's rate of fire, would be hilarious. Steel .177 BBs are only somewhat heavier (5grs) than most higher quality 6mm airsoft pellets (about 4grs). Is there a great deal more backpressure from the smaller bore (.177" vs about .243") to cause a normal AEG gearbox system to not work for this use? Recharging a NiMH battery every 600-800 shots seems much easier than using CO2 that only handles 100 shots before replacement, or a bulk CO2 tank that freezes the gun up. |
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I've got the steel storm, had it a while. It doesn't go through co2 that bad really, and it's pretty fucking accurate too. Yeah, I have a 7 year old son with a nearly worn out Daisy Buck. I'll be neck deep in used CO2 powerlets inside of a week if I buy one of those. 
Buying 5000 packs of BBs and recharging a battery for pennies is what I'm after. 
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A .20 gram airsoft BB weighs 3 grains doesn't it or did I do the math backwards? No, that's right, but I was thinking more in the .25g+ range, which is about 4 grains. I shot .25g in my generic TM copy AEG, and IIRC that was running around 300-320fps, hence my guess at about 250fps for a steel BB. |
Belt fed pellet gun is the way to go. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPW1ufou3fs http://air-ordnance.com/smg-22-p-938.html |
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Airsoft BBs commonly weigh between 0.20g to 0.40g. If .177s weigh 5.of then it's possible the AEG air pressure isn't enough to move it effectively Airsoft BBs are measured in grams, not our firearms related "grains": .26grams=4 grains, meaning a 5grain BB at .32grams is about the weight of the airsoft BBs used for some of the premium AEG airsoft guns. So weight is comparable. I suspect it's the diameter of the bore, and having the piston forcing the same volume of air down a narrower tube that might be the deal breaker, rather than weight. Still, it's a tempting idea...combining the super low cost of AEGs battery run high rate of fire with a steel BB's superior sectional density. |
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Saw this in a gun magazine about 20 years ago, when I couldn't legally own shit. There was a high shutter speed picture. The BBs were spaced about 3 inches apart in a perfect line coming out of the thing. (It's a freon powered BB machine gun) http://quinxy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/larc.jpg They worked fine, right up till they froze solid. Edit: needed a comma for clarity. |
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Saw this in a gun magazine about 20 years ago, when I couldn't legally own shit. There was a high shutter speed picture. The BBs were spaced about 3 inches apart in a perfect line coming out of the thing. (It's a freon powered BB machine gun) http://quinxy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/larc.jpg Yeah, those are the classics. They'd freeze up like crazy though. Compressed gas is powerful, but somewhat limiting. They're up there with the compressed air carnival guns for sheer backyard plinking awesomeness. |
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They worked fine, right up till they froze solid. Edit: needed a comma for clarity. Quoted:
Quoted:
Saw this in a gun magazine about 20 years ago, when I couldn't legally own shit. There was a high shutter speed picture. The BBs were spaced about 3 inches apart in a perfect line coming out of the thing. (It's a freon powered BB machine gun) http://quinxy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/larc.jpg They worked fine, right up till they froze solid. Edit: needed a comma for clarity. Ever shoot one?? Forgive my nostalgia, but if memory serves, the article made it seem awesome. Mom bought me a marksman spring air pistol at this age (14) with my money with a ~3 inch smooth bore barrel. |
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Saw this in a gun magazine about 20 years ago, when I couldn't legally own shit. There was a high shutter speed picture. The BBs were spaced about 3 inches apart in a perfect line coming out of the thing. (It's a freon powered BB machine gun) http://quinxy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/larc.jpg I always wanted one of those, but about the time I was old enough to actually handle one they outlawed R12 Freon. 
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Quoted: Ever shoot one?? Forgive my nostalgia, but if memory serves, the article made it seem awesome. Mom bought me a marksman spring air pistol at this age (14) with my money with a ~3 inch smooth bore barrel. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Saw this in a gun magazine about 20 years ago, when I couldn't legally own shit. There was a high shutter speed picture. The BBs were spaced about 3 inches apart in a perfect line coming out of the thing. (It's a freon powered BB machine gun) http://quinxy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/larc.jpg They worked fine, right up till they froze solid. Edit: needed a comma for clarity. Ever shoot one?? Forgive my nostalgia, but if memory serves, the article made it seem awesome. Mom bought me a marksman spring air pistol at this age (14) with my money with a ~3 inch smooth bore barrel. My dad bought me one a year or 2 after my red ryder and got the compressed air hookup. It was a POS most of the time. There are instructions on the web on how to make one with PVC and bondo. |
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Quoted: Ever shoot one?? Forgive my nostalgia, but if memory serves, the article made it seem awesome. Mom bought me a marksman spring air pistol at this age (14) with my money with a ~3 inch smooth bore barrel. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Saw this in a gun magazine about 20 years ago, when I couldn't legally own shit. There was a high shutter speed picture. The BBs were spaced about 3 inches apart in a perfect line coming out of the thing. (It's a freon powered BB machine gun) http://quinxy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/larc.jpg They worked fine, right up till they froze solid. Edit: needed a comma for clarity. Ever shoot one?? Forgive my nostalgia, but if memory serves, the article made it seem awesome. Mom bought me a marksman spring air pistol at this age (14) with my money with a ~3 inch smooth bore barrel. |
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What would be the added benefits to a .177 BB gun vs an Airsoft? Still would not be powerful enough for small game. Vs. 6mm airsoft pellets: Increased sectional density/range at a given velocity, increased penetration, and mostly for better accuracy compared to molded plastic pellets that whiz all over the place after bouncing down a barrel past a hopup bucking. I don't think anyone buys BB machine guns for hunting. I have suppressed .22s for that. This is for the sheer joy of machine gunning plastic toy soldiers and soda cans.
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I looked at steel BB, full auto BB guns. Saw problems.
Got a JG A1 airsoft gun and installed a tight bore, 6.01 barrel and use .20 gm BBs. It works just great, has good sights and a good feel. The plastic BBs easily shoot through prickly pear cactus leaves, cardboard boxes and stuff like that. This A1 is far more accurate than the many Daisy BB guns I have. Hanging old pants make an excellent backstop and the plastic BBs can be reused 20 or more times...as long as they don't hit each other. Electric batteries are much easier to deal with than CO2 or HPA. Stuff in the recycle bin becomes a most excellent source of fun and joy. ETA, airsoft stuff is reliable and parts are easy to get and often available locally. |
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Saw this in a gun magazine about 20 years ago, when I couldn't legally own shit. There was a high shutter speed picture. The BBs were spaced about 3 inches apart in a perfect line coming out of the thing. (It's a freon powered BB machine gun) http://quinxy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/larc.jpg Blast from the past!! I had 2 of these in the early 80's. One identical to the one in the pic, and another shorty version. They took freon canisters if I remember correctly (whatever it took, I bought it from NAPA). They were fun as hell, but not particularly powerful. |
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They worked fine, right up till they froze solid. Edit: needed a comma for clarity. Quoted:
Quoted:
Saw this in a gun magazine about 20 years ago, when I couldn't legally own shit. There was a high shutter speed picture. The BBs were spaced about 3 inches apart in a perfect line coming out of the thing. (It's a freon powered BB machine gun) http://quinxy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/larc.jpg They worked fine, right up till they froze solid. Edit: needed a comma for clarity. Use R134 then. That stuff I'd nowhere near as cold as freon. |
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Saw this in a gun magazine about 20 years ago, when I couldn't legally own shit. There was a high shutter speed picture. The BBs were spaced about 3 inches apart in a perfect line coming out of the thing. (It's a freon powered BB machine gun) http://quinxy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/larc.jpg Ha! Had one of those in the early 80s as a kid. I think they were like $40 mail order from ad inthe popular gun magazines. Great for snakes and frog hunts. It worked OK but leaked on occassion so you had to shoot it up quick. Umarex makes some interesting full auto CO2 guns that are replicas of other guns. |
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Saw this in a gun magazine about 20 years ago, when I couldn't legally own shit. There was a high shutter speed picture. The BBs were spaced about 3 inches apart in a perfect line coming out of the thing. (It's a freon powered BB machine gun) http://quinxy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/larc.jpg Mine came with a fitting to run it with a regular shop air compressor. They eat lots of BBs.
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Saw this in a gun magazine about 20 years ago, when I couldn't legally own shit. There was a high shutter speed picture. The BBs were spaced about 3 inches apart in a perfect line coming out of the thing. (It's a freon powered BB machine gun) http://quinxy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/larc.jpg I bought one of those in 1988. It was totally worthless. 3 seconds spraying BB's and then you wait 10 minutes for the freon to warm up. Finally threw it away last week! |
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Use R134 then. That stuff I'd nowhere near as cold as freon. Quoted:
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Saw this in a gun magazine about 20 years ago, when I couldn't legally own shit. There was a high shutter speed picture. The BBs were spaced about 3 inches apart in a perfect line coming out of the thing. (It's a freon powered BB machine gun) http://quinxy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/larc.jpg They worked fine, right up till they froze solid. Edit: needed a comma for clarity. Use R134 then. That stuff I'd nowhere near as cold as freon. LOL.... |
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Saw this in a gun magazine about 20 years ago, when I couldn't legally own shit. There was a high shutter speed picture. The BBs were spaced about 3 inches apart in a perfect line coming out of the thing. (It's a freon powered BB machine gun) http://quinxy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/larc.jpg Had one of those in the early 80's and it was a BB hose. My dad purchased it from an ad in SOF magazine. |
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you do realize you can run the gun on compressed air? It's kinda like paintball.
Find a 12 gram to air adapter (they used to be commonish) and run a remote and a big co2 tank that you can get filled at paintball places, or a compressed air tank if you've got your own scuba tanks. http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2008/08/how-to-convert-from-co2-to-air/ Edit: Just watch this. 
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Saw this in a gun magazine about 20 years ago, when I couldn't legally own shit. There was a high shutter speed picture. The BBs were spaced about 3 inches apart in a perfect line coming out of the thing. (It's a freon powered BB machine gun) http://quinxy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/larc.jpg I remember that thing. Is it still around? Can I get one? |
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Saw this in a gun magazine about 20 years ago, when I couldn't legally own shit. There was a high shutter speed picture. The BBs were spaced about 3 inches apart in a perfect line coming out of the thing. (It's a freon powered BB machine gun) http://quinxy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/larc.jpg Back in the 70's when I was home on leave from the Sexual Revolution and consuming mass quantities of extremely refrigerated Budweiser's with a buddy of mine in his shop one day, we had one of these that kept freezing up using the freon R-12 as a power source. Perplexed by the number of failures to fire I spied his air compressor in the corner and surmised that it should work much better. We rummaged through his air fittings and found one that would allow us to hook an air hose in place of the freon can. Being that the Budweisers had elevated our collective IQ's into the quadruple digit range we employed inadequate safety measures with regards to the maximum air pressure to be used on this plastic BB Vulcan cannon. We were bright enough to use a regulator, but as we increased the pressure in small increments the laughter made us forget to stop at about 90 PSI. It was spitting out BB's at a phenomenal rate. After getting to about 110 PSI the little gun took on the visual characteristics of a copper wire dispenser because the BB's were exiting the barrel so rapidly and close together! The next increase in pressure plainly exceeded the structural design limits of the devise's plastic material on account of it blowing up in my hands and showering BB's in all directions like a low yield pipe bomb built by Omar the magnificent IED guru.
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Back in the 70's when I was home on leave from the Sexual Revolution and consuming mass quantities of extremely refrigerated Budweiser's with a buddy of mine in his shop one day, we had one of these that kept freezing up using the freon R-12 as a power source. Perplexed by the number of failures to fire I spied his air compressor in the corner and surmised that it should work much better. We rummaged through his air fittings and found one that would allow us to hook an air hose in place of the freon can. Being that the Budweisers had elevated our collective IQ's into the quadruple digit range we employed inadequate safety measures with regards to the maximum air pressure to be used on this plastic BB Vulcan cannon. We were bright enough to use a regulator, but as we increased the pressure in small increments the laughter made us forget to stop at about 90 PSI. It was spitting out BB's at a phenomenal rate. After getting to about 110 PSI the little gun took on the visual characteristics of a copper wire dispenser because the BB's were exiting the barrel so rapidly and close together! The next increase in pressure plainly exceeded the structural design limits of the devise's plastic material on account of it blowing up in my hands and showering BB's in all directions like a low yield pipe bomb built by Omar the magnificent IED guru.
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Saw this in a gun magazine about 20 years ago, when I couldn't legally own shit. There was a high shutter speed picture. The BBs were spaced about 3 inches apart in a perfect line coming out of the thing. (It's a freon powered BB machine gun) http://quinxy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/larc.jpg Back in the 70's when I was home on leave from the Sexual Revolution and consuming mass quantities of extremely refrigerated Budweiser's with a buddy of mine in his shop one day, we had one of these that kept freezing up using the freon R-12 as a power source. Perplexed by the number of failures to fire I spied his air compressor in the corner and surmised that it should work much better. We rummaged through his air fittings and found one that would allow us to hook an air hose in place of the freon can. Being that the Budweisers had elevated our collective IQ's into the quadruple digit range we employed inadequate safety measures with regards to the maximum air pressure to be used on this plastic BB Vulcan cannon. We were bright enough to use a regulator, but as we increased the pressure in small increments the laughter made us forget to stop at about 90 PSI. It was spitting out BB's at a phenomenal rate. After getting to about 110 PSI the little gun took on the visual characteristics of a copper wire dispenser because the BB's were exiting the barrel so rapidly and close together! The next increase in pressure plainly exceeded the structural design limits of the devise's plastic material on account of it blowing up in my hands and showering BB's in all directions like a low yield pipe bomb built by Omar the magnificent IED guru.
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I can run ~300 BB's through my Steel Storm before I have to swap out the Co2 powerlets.
Buy a box of 20 of them for 12 bucks or so at Princess Auto (Canada's version of Harbor Freight). Very accurate and the 6 round burst is tons of fun. Getting rid of it though, dog goes apeshit when I fire it. The only gun that drives her nuts. |
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Saw this in a gun magazine about 20 years ago, when I couldn't legally own shit. There was a high shutter speed picture. The BBs were spaced about 3 inches apart in a perfect line coming out of the thing. (It's a freon powered BB machine gun) http://quinxy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/larc.jpg I have one of those. I bought it in the early 80s and still have it. |
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Saw this in a gun magazine about 20 years ago, when I couldn't legally own shit. There was a high shutter speed picture. The BBs were spaced about 3 inches apart in a perfect line coming out of the thing. (It's a freon powered BB machine gun) http://quinxy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/larc.jpg My dad has one of those and about 15 years ago he made an adapter that hooked up to a standard air hose chuck. Its not quite as fast but for his purposes (running of stray cats and other small animals) it was perfect. It was also awesome. |
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I bought one of those in 1988. It was totally worthless. 3 seconds spraying BB's and then you wait 10 minutes for the freon to warm up. Finally threw it away last week! Quoted:
Quoted:
Saw this in a gun magazine about 20 years ago, when I couldn't legally own shit. There was a high shutter speed picture. The BBs were spaced about 3 inches apart in a perfect line coming out of the thing. (It's a freon powered BB machine gun) http://quinxy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/larc.jpg I bought one of those in 1988. It was totally worthless. 3 seconds spraying BB's and then you wait 10 minutes for the freon to warm up. Finally threw it away last week! Actually, I just dug it out of the trash after seeing this thread. Dammit, I thought it was gone! (Also, I bought it in 1989 according to the postmark on the box.)
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