Posted: 12/22/2001 5:27:43 PM EDT
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I admit this is my first time to read the book. It has been great so far, but a recurring theme is Howe's complaints about leadership, tactics, Rangers, and the 5.56. I am on page 284 and the guy is STILL griping about everything! I understood, prior to reading the book, that Howe was probably shooting a CAR with a very short barrel that might be causing the 5.56 green tip to not disintegrate when it hits a human, however, even shots that are reported by Howe to be under 20 yds he is still saying the rounds were not effective. Is this guy just a 'Luke Skywalker' always whining and moaning or is he reputable? He is whining so much it is becoming comic/ridiculous. TheRedGoat |
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I read the book not too long ago and though I remember him complaining about the SS109 rd, not the 5.56 in general, I think his complaints are valid. If the guy keeps running after you hit him, what good is it to have such a round? Maybe it would be a good idea to have a SS109 for punch through on body armor, but not for just general purpose like what they had to deal with in Somalia. Also, I believe it's a common theme in general for Delta Force/SEALs to complain about subordinate units. The tactics are different and the leadership is different. |
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Well, first of all, maybe Howe wasn't scoring any kill shots! I agree with the "Luke Skywalker" comment. Howe describes a scene in the book where he lets out a burst at four guys walking along a wall, and he gets pissed when only two go down. He then curses the weapon. Ya just ain't gonna kill it, if you don't get a kill shot. I dont care if it's a 5.56, 7.62 or a 50 cal. (well, OK, maybe a 50 cal!) |
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First off, I believe that Sgt. Howe was the ONLY Delta operator who had clearance to discuss the battle. So you're getting an overwhelming amount of information from Rangers and only a fraction of the available information from Delta. Second, I believe that the Delta operators were using what amounts to the precursor to the M4, a 14.5" A2 sighted carbine. See my thread here ([url]http://www.cinemayhem.com/Cineforum/Forum17/HTML/000220.html[/url]). I don't believe the 10-11.5" barrel rumor. |
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Quoted: Well, first of all, maybe Howe wasn't scoring any kill shots! I agree with the "Luke Skywalker" comment. Howe describes a scene in the book where he lets out a burst at four guys walking along a wall, and he gets pissed when only two go down. He then curses the weapon. Ya just ain't gonna kill it, if you don't get a kill shot. I dont care if it's a 5.56, 7.62 or a 50 cal. (well, OK, maybe a 50 cal!) Though none of us were there, I would tend to believe Howe was making kill shots. The reason I say this is due to the fact I shot a pig with a SS109 rd and it's passage through the pigs head was no larger than the size of a dime. I think the next time I go to the range I will test a SS109 rd against a 62gr ball with water melons at 100 yds abd see what the damage is. I'm betting the SS109 rd will pass right through without much damage to the water melon. Kind of hard to drop something when you're shooting needles at it. |
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Well, I am almost finished with the book. Howe is stil carping about the 5.56, not just the ss109. Funny thing...he alludes to having been on multiple other missions, and comments that Shugart had been teased for carrying the M-14. He continues by pointing out how much more effective the M-14 would probably be vs. the CAR-15. It makes it appear that Howe had never fired his weapon in anger (ie. at a live target) prior to Mogadishu. Odd. For all his whining it appears this is also his first time returning fire. The part about firing a burst at multiple Sammys just yds from his position is what I was referring to in my comment. Long/Short barrel the .223 should have retained Plenty-O speed at these range to fragment. Sweep, I have shot multiple items with my .223 using various rounds, ball, HP, soft point, ss109, Wolf, south African, etc. IMHO they all perform about the same on melons. Small entry, dynamic exit. Pumpkins tend to just allow the round to pass right through with little more than a .30 caliber exit hole. The only time I found the .223 to be amazing was when shooting a row of 55 gallon steel drums that I intended to use for burning trash. The Green tipped round 'sailed' through 2.5 cans, it stopped on the outer wal of the 3rd can. You could actually see the 'keyhole' on the exit of the first can. Perfect .223 shaped, with the nose pointing straight up! I had shot the same drums that day with .38 special, .357 mag, 9mm, 45 Long Colt, and a 12 guage. Only the .223 penetrated more than two walls. Most stopped on the second side of the first barrel (only went trhough one piece of steel.) TheRedGoat |