[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Better upper deck firepower! (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 11/23/2004 12:51:00 PM EDT
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The Royal Navy has taken steps to make sure an incident like the attack on the USS Cole does not happen to one of it's ships. They have replaced the GPMG's M240's, they normally fit with these… You can never have 'enough' firepower when you are upper deck watch …    This young lady's names Jess by the way…   ANdy |
20MM were mounted primarily as anti-aircraft guns, I believe. |
On gunmounts, as Vito, said. I can't remember where, but I thought I had seen a 20mm on a pintle mount. |
In the Navy, as a GMG, I worked on the 20mm and it's mount A LOT. Both were extremely unreliable. The 20mms would jam and misfire constantly and they were very heavy and unwieldy. You had to oil the crap out of the ammo or the links would bind. The mount bearings/rings would get ground to powder about once a year. Give me a .50 cal for the upper deck any day. |
I knew I wasn't crazy. How was it mounted? Do you recall the model number? |
Just about straight down… Ark Royal got 'buzzed' off the UAE by a speedboat at night a while back, ran in close across the stern, very close!… steps were taken to make sure the next 'univited guest' gets a nasty surprise. .  And Jess models the Gucci new Minigun again… ANdy |
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Those things are a bitch to maintain. I had two GAU-17s and two gunner's mates. Guess what they spend most of their time on? When they work, they work like a champ. However, I'd rather have the twin 240s we are playing with or the Mk95 twin .50cal mount. (I had 8 .50s on four mounts, not bad for a ship that's under 200 feet long.) Load those .50s with AA06 and go to town! |
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This is a typical late WWII twin 20mm Oerlikon mount as seen in use aboard a USN ship. Very reliable with great hitting power due to the exploding ammo. The problem with this mount is the large gun crew required. You needed a gunner, two loaders and a phone talker. Otherwise, a very effective weapon system. 
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Cool, and that's the same type of simple grey/blue shirt and dark blue trousers the USN should adopt as a working rig for ALL rates and officers. Soft shoulder boards for all. No more sewing shit on. God I'm still pissed by the stupid ass blue/grey cammo BDUs the Navy wants. 
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You read my mind, buddy.... |
Standard Duty Rig… everybody wears it… even Captain & Admirals on board ship. Seems crazy your Navy going to an Army type rig for shipboard use. The Royal Navy used to use Army Battledress up till 1945, but after working with the USN during the war and seeing how good and practical your khakis and denims were, our Navy adapted them as their rigs and ditched the Battledress…  ANdy |
Just curious, why not have BDU's? I always thought the Navy issued prison uniforms to enlisted personnel. Not trying to be disrespectful to the Navy here, I think the BDU's would be more like the other services and promote more of an interservice "team" type environment..... of course I could just be full of shit. 
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Because everybody has to have their own identity these days. 
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First of all, if a common uniform is needed to foster an interservice "team" environment, then we are well and truly fucked. Second, shipboard life is vastly different than life in garrison or in the field. BDUs are completely unnecessary on board ship. Third, yes, the Navy is a different service than the Army and Marines and it desrves to keep its distinctive uniforms for dress and work. Canada tried to make ALL its armed services wear the same green Army-looking dress uniform when all the separate services were combined into the Canadian Forces, and nothing has ever looked more stupid than the Maritime Command (former Royal Canadian Navy) crews manning the rail looking like soldiers on parade. Thankfully, even though the CF is one armed service, the three Commands (Land, Air, Maritime) all now have uniforms that look like what Army, Air Force, and Navy uniforms properly look like. Take a look at the RN's uniform: simple, nautical, practical. That is all that we need in the USN. |
Big problem as I see it with Army style rig on board ship… too many pockets and shit hanging out to snag on things. Just see it now… you're rushing to Actions Stations, you dive down a hatch and ……DAMN! The hem of the gay baggy Battledress jacket snaggs up on a hatch dog… Working rig on ships evolved into the way it was over many years because it 'worked' and was the best for the job. Just because some desk clown decides everybody will use the same gear don't mean it's a good idea. Pretty much every navy, both Merchant and Military, had decided that black leather ankle boots, non baggy dark blue/black trousers , and a tucked in blue shirt are both practical and efficient workwear on board ship…… can they all be wrong? ANdy |
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I've still got my No 8's from my time at sea… that's over 20 years ago now, the only difference between mine and the ones the Royal Navy issue now are mine are poly-cotton, and the current ones are all cotton. And they are the same cut and style as the No 8's my father wore in the 60's & 70's when he was in the Navy… The Royal Navy… "We Fear (clothing) Change" 
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Another vote for the British rig from another SWO. LWilde could make this unaninmous. |
There is little or no advantage to a BDU uniform on ship. If it was because of identity the Navy would have stuck with the old dungarees. |
You're right, I should've been more clear. I was thinking of the way the Air Force and Navy have gone with the different color patterns. The Marines and Army are understandable, but the other two services choices seem a bit odd. |
| Realistically the AF should stay standard with the Army. There are actually combat troops in the AF, Security Police (cant bring myself to say security forces) Combat controllers, PJ's, etc. If the AF goes to a goofy blueish camo they need to keep a seperate uniform for these and other forces that wont always stay on pavement! |
The 20 MM Oerklons that were all over RN ships in WWII- and were called out again in the Falklands War... |
| The multi-barrels are cool but the M2's on our patrol boats were the best. We could field strip them in the dark and they never let us down. The less maintenance, the better. I can understand the more rounds is better concept but they ain't worth a shit if they don't go bang when you hit the trigger. |
Why did they not turn the CWIS on it? Or do you not have yet the Block 1B versions with the IIR and manual controls that can engage boats? |
I think the Brits have limited numbers of our Mk15 Phalanx in service. I believe their primary Close In Weapons System is the Goalkeeper. I don't believe it comes with a thermal imager. |
Its a Mk15 behind the girl with the minigun in the photo, thats why I asked. Its got the barrel group supporting frame, that pyramid of tubes around the barrel cluster, like our upgraded units. Course it could still lack enough depression. |
Pretty much in agreement. I'm not all that concerned about the "style". What the Navy needs is a good common sense uniform for all hands. Inport, unless engaged in dirty work the crew including the officers should be in some form of dress uniform. Underway and inport when at work OR when assigned to a special team such as the security alert, the crew and the officers ought to be in a uniform that best meets the operational and safety needs of the men. The uniform ought to be some sort of coveralls. They should be fire retardent and easily donned in a hurry. There should be enough pockets and other doo-dads to accept the tools, weapons and magazines needed to the sailors to do their jobs. There are lots of great examples out there now in the world...the Navy just needs to get off their ass and make it happen. Oh...and FWIW...in my 28 years, I NEVER saw a more ridiculous scandal than the Navy Uniform Board. 
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I agree with that 100%. I also think we should get rid of the summer khaki and winter blue uniforms. They are redundant in the extreme. Officers and CPOs can easily replace those two with the summer white shirt and winter blue trousers for summer and with the long sleeve white shirt with tie and shoulder boards and winter blue trousers in winter/fall/spring. Give the CPOs soft shoulder boards with their chevron/eagle sleeve rank embroidered on. We can learn a LOT from these guys: Royal Navy uniforms See the RN's examples below: -08-07-2004]officergen1.jpg) -08-07-2004]officergen2.jpg) -08-07-2004]warrentgen1.jpg) -08-07-2004]warrentgen2.jpg) Summer khaki is simply not a nautical uniform. |
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The problem with the USS Cole wasn't with the amount of firepower - it was the application of it. My carrier was in the Persian Gulf standing watch. The USS Cole was on her way to join our battle group. After the attact I was the senior enlisted section leader on the first day the carrier was having a liberty call in Jebel Ali. Prior to the port visit the Officer of the Day called a meeting between him, me, and the ship's security forces. The ODD briefed that if a boat were to approach within our zone of control that we use water hoses sprayed in front of the boat to scare it away. After the ODD left I briefed that the 125 PSI water hoses were to be directed at the boat and anyone on deck and that the .50 BMG and .30 machine gun crews should lock and load and have their weapons directed at the pilot of the boat. If the boat was to come closer than 100 feet they were to open up. We had a SEAL team in the water along side us in a few heavily loaded zodak boats - each with a .30 and .50 in a mount. There were snipers up on our island structure making observations. Pier side we had our own men along with some of the U.A.E. solidiers who's enlisted were armed with night sticks and officers had 9mm machine pistols. |
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I agree with the whole uniform fiasco. I joined in 1980 just as the transition from the dark blue utilities BACK to seafarers was taking place. We were allowed to wear whatever we were issued in boot camp until they wore out. Being an engineer, we wore black or dark blue coveralls in the holes but couldn't wear them on the mess decks or off the ship. After I got out, coveralls were issued to everyone and had the name tapes and rank sewn on. Since I went back in the reserves the utility uniform has changed again back to dark blue and straight leg pants. NOW they want to do the blue/grey cammie BDU thing...I can't wait to retire just so I don't have to maintian a full seabag. Oh and BTW I'm with a SeaBea unit now, used to be in an IBU, and wear BDU/DCUs. ANOTHER 2 sets to keep on hand. Don't even get me started on the whole dress uniform BS...women in crackerjacks, uugh |
| Another deck gun question, I remember seeing a 3bbl .50cal that I think was a general dynamics gun. Any ships equipped with these? It would seem a big boat would be the ideal home for such a large piece of lovely firepower. I would also think a wire guided TOW would be a must have for defense against close in threats. |