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There's plenty of craftsmanship that still exists, but people get upset when they realize they have to pay for it.

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There’s plenty of craftsmanship that still exists, but people get upset when they realize they have to pay for it.

Sako still offers stuff that you’d likely be interested in.

Old cartridges are gay, come join us in the 21st century.

Stop using cartridges that were designed before we even put man on the moon.

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Shitty words show a lack of class indeed. I guess as long as you can open carry your Euro trash gun at Walmart and pretend soldier at your Emurange you're happy.

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Are you triggered by the term LARP?

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No it won’t.

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There’s plenty of craftsmanship that still exists, but people get upset when they realize they have to pay for it.

Sako still offers stuff that you’d likely be interested in.

Old cartridges are gay, come join us in the 21st century.

Stop using cartridges that were designed before we even put man on the moon.

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Disclaimer: Not officially a Boomer at 37 but I might be maturing into a Fudd.

New guns are plastic, uninspired, and repetitive. I theorize that the overabundance of sub $500 guns ultimately hurt shooters and the gun culture.

When I go to gun stores, shows, and peruse online traders, I have no interest in new guns much less the plethora of cheap and barely functional trash guns. There was a cultural shift after the AWB sunset of the early 2000s and to me, the Honeymoon is over and mainstream has turned the gun industry into a money-grubbing ugly environment for heritage. The emphasis on quantity over quality is really at this point repulsive. How many times have you known someone (including yourself) who buys guns in quantities disproportionate to what they shoot, hunt, or properly outfit with accessories? I totally get the argument of freedom of choice and so on. But I found myself doing this several times in my life and have minimized my collection to less than 20 guns (which is still a lot by global standards). I also know numerous people who own no functional capacity of mags, optics, ammunition, holsters, slings, and sights for many of their guns. These are not projects or anything like that. They're bought dysfunctional and stored dysfunctionally while more dysfunctional guns are added to the pile.

Although I've sold well over 100 guns throughout the years, I still maintain a battery for my growing family. The wife and I both hunt numerous species so there is logic in our variety. We both carry, and both enjoy shooting guns. We're both military and she's entering LE as a professional. In other words, our family has lots of legitimate use for firearms. However, I still don't understand the Buds Best Seller list-type guns that I see well-endowed gun enthusiasts buying. These lousy guns should be shunned by our community with greater emphasis. The deals are nice when they actually include quality like older Stoegers and CZs. But most times, they're modernized versions of Saturday Night Specials in gaudy colors and expanded to semi-auto and repeating shotgun form from places like Turkey and the Kel Tec factory. These guns really pollute the image of responsibility to the public's eye of gun owners overall and the point is driven home when they are used in so many of the more common violent crimes or pop up on Snapchat with in the hands of a bunch of posing thugs.

I used to scratch my head as to how Capitalism allowed lousy companies such as Pro-Mag and Taurus to exist. But those companies gained their foothold in the market back when information was less available to consumers. Today, you have more information and more spending power, and still, people impulse buy the equivalent of Target's Bargain Bin every time they get paid. Most of these guns will never be carried and oftentimes never be shot. They're bought both for the "someday" outing or neatness factor. That's it.

I appreciate historic guns as well as the next guy. But most importantly, I appreciate guns that are aesthetically and ergonomically pleasing as much as they are reliable and accurate. Classics like the Winchester 70 series, the Remington 700 BDLs, the S&W Pre-locks, Wingmasters, Mini 14s, M1As and so much more. These guns were made for everyday people and focused on quality rather than raw cheap "killing power" (i.e. 'tactical') as a selling point. The truth is most people look at their guns, hold them, admire them, curious about the engineering, processes, and materials used to make these works of functional art. They appreciate the human factors imbued into the piece. The new Kimber K6, Colt Pythons, the CZs, and the remaining 1911s on the market are nice, but their reception is poor or fading.

The bolt gun sector is the most disappointing place of all. Polished bolts, rich bluing, iron sights, lustrous wood, and metal engravings are gone. Everything is laser etched, matte blue, "optic ready", and metal on plastic zip-tie rough. Those that complain about finishes and wood. Well part of the fun used to be cleaning guns after using them. It came with the territory. I remember when I was young how cool it was to just work the action on older guns because they sounded all so unique, smooth, and serious. Today, the actions of all guns are obnoxious in feel and sound. The fact that I'm having a hell of a hard time finding a walnut-stocked bolt action with iron sights for my son is ridiculous. The fact that no one makes a left-handed wood stock bolt action in .270 is jaw-dropping to me. The fact that current market trends and the pitiful presentation of new S&W revolvers mean that eventually, they will be off the market as well is sad. I'm not even going to start on how ridiculous the 6.5 Creedmoor has impacted the bolt action market only for the 6.5 PRC to swan dive right behind for a measly 300 fps. It's laughable.

All so the gun corporations who are increasingly less American can sell more guns that do the same thing. It's not like the Whitetail deer species is evolving or wearing body armor. A .270 is just as deadly as it was nearly 100 years ago when it was designed. I suppose for self-defense guns people are getting fatter and using more stimulants so there's a bit of logic in the focus on 30rd AR pistols over a nice HiPower.

Gun owners are fickle hoarders and the free market is destroying a beautiful part of the human experience.

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I was drinking last night and would have chosen my words differently otherwise.

As it stands I meant everything I said.

I train and shoot for a reason. There is no pretending about it.   If you've ever been in a gun fight in front of your home, you'd take personal training seriously as well.

I am not who you hate, I guarantee my quality to quantity in firearm selection is a better ratio than yours, but I do support freedom and it is clear you don't.

ETA: the funniest thing about this whole premise is that the 2  shittiest guns I own, I bought for $25 each from a family friend. They were his grandfather's, and it was either that or be thrown away, so I bought them to sell back to him one day when he regretted it.  Each of them was made right around 1900 and they're absolute garbage. Sears unbranded junk.

My grandfather handed me down a handmade Parker shotgun, custom made for his grandfather around the same time. The Parker, I'd trust to shoot, but not the junk I bought from my friend.

Let's not pretend that there has and always will be variation in quality to meet the needs of the populace. It's clear you're afraid of that armed populace.

Now my only question is why?

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There are non boring options out there...

Takedown .338 Lapua
https://www.shootingillustrated.com/media/jwhnrkoc/put4.jpg

Ultra low bore axis, fixed barrel / sights, delayed blowback
https://lancer-systems.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/Full-kit-aerial-3-scaled.jpg

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Be honest. Most of your time in the military was spent LARPing.

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I read half of it.

Stopped reading at " we have legitimate use for the firearms we have, because blah blah blah, we sucked uncle sam's dick and now my wife is asking for more."

Craftsmanship still exists and IDGAF what qualifications individuals have. Free men deserve the right to bear arms. Period.

Go be a fudd elsewhere.

OP was *this close* to saying those guns shouldn't be allowed in dirty civilian hands. Admit it OP.

ETA: wrote this drunkenly last night and am here to say I truly have no issue with those that served. It is only when they pretend that they are somehow now more qualified to exercise their rights, or worse, deserving of those rights that I will speak out against.  I thought those that served, served to guarantee the freedoms our forefathers fought for, but it is clear OP and others like him served to feel superior to those  that he doesn't see as having "legitimate use" for capable firearms.  Remember his type still exists and actively serve today. Rights for me, not for thee.

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There are plenty of Sakos, Berettas, etc... being made today.

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Drunk or not, words matter. Fuck you in your ass. I hope your wife fucking cheats on you and I read about it in the MGTOW thread.

You're conviction is strong plebe. Consume, consume, and obey.

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I’ll be honest after more thought,  I miss a lot of the old days.  I’m 42 and I remember going into gun stores with tons of walnut stocked rifles and shotguns.
Old dudes drinking coffee and stacks of military surplus rifles and ammo.

Overall though it has to do with life being somewhat less complicated.

Heck my favorite AR is my first.  An old Eargle Arms A2 target.  My favorite EBR is an AK just reminds me of my youth.

OP,  maybe what you are looking for is the good old days more than anything.  I know I miss those days too.

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No, I'm saying, the emphasis on killing power has diminished the emphasis on true quality. The price point stayed the same.

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OP is getting shredded but he isn't exactly wrong.

Years ago a guy could own a Winchester Model 70, a Model 94, a Remington 870, a Colt 1911 and a S&W Model 19 and have all of his hunting and SD needs covered with awesome examples of craftsmanship. Go buy brand new examples of those same firearms now....not the same.

And before I am Fudd-attacked, I shoot an AR almost daily...certainly several times a week. I think and AR is the handiest, most ergonomic firearm available.

But then again I did just go down a Scout Rifle rabbit hole, and ordered a Ruger walnut and blued steel 450 Scout to replace my 450 AR as a deer rifle

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At what point in time did an 870 embody fine craftsmanship? As far back as I can recall that was always a utilitarian shotgun.

With 1911s, I know for certain you can get extremely fine examples now. Probably better than they've ever been, in fact. But they're expensive.

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Lol pathetic. You're addressing someone who has actually been in a gun fight to protect himself and his family on US soil.

"Legitimate" uses because you were in the mil and your wife is about to be profeshanul haha. From what I've seen lately I trust cops with guns less than I'd trust the average GDer.

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OP, as someone who has spent his whole career in the tooling side of manufacturing, you don’t know how wrong you are about quality. Yeah, you can lay Benjamin’s out on the table and get an old ‘Smith at a custom  to stone the perfect trigger on your century old handgun, but the truth is that a CNC will do the same job better in seconds, 24 hours a day and never calls in. You can hate on plastic frames, simply because you prefer steel, but there is nothing wrong with polymer framed handguns. If you ever had to actually Live with a gun daily on your hip, and deal with the weight and corrosion issues of a 100 year old legacy design, you’d change your mind.

A lot of things about guns become glaringly obvious to him when a guy actually uses a gun rather than pulls it out of his sock drawer for a yearly range session on a warm summer day to shoot at paper. I’ll never own a parkerized or blued gun again after dealing with guns sweating and rusting as they come in and out of the cold.

The old days were great, but today’s pretty good too.

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Amen, I miss old gun shops and what you MIGHT find.

Now you go to any gun store and it’s a plethora of Turkish and Phillipino no name SHIT made for poor people with poor aspirations.

I love the high post count chubs in here talking about guns “for the working man” LOL work harder. If I can’t afford what’s nice, I strive to. Settling is for a poor mindset.