Posted: 1/28/2009 5:16:31 PM EDT
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Couple of days ago I got tired of my '03 Tundra missing and running rough at low idle. Figured I'd check the easy stuff and went to pull the plugs in hopes they might be fouled. I put Bosch Platinums in last plug change and figured they'd be ok.
What I found was that 6 of the 8 plugs were so loose that there was VERY little if any 'breakaway' torque when loosening them up. Worse than that, I found that the top part of the plugs were all loose! (when I bought the plugs, they had 2 different 'tops' that you had to select and screw onto the top of the plug. Never encountered that type of plug setup before but figured it'd be ok. Going to be replacing them this weekend but NOT with Bosch. Just curious though, has anyone else encounted either of those problems? The plugs were installed by me, with a little anti-seize and correctly torqued with a torque wrench. Oh yeah, after cleaning and tightening the plugs up, motor's running smooth now. What a shocker huh? |
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Anti-Seize on the plugs is always a good idea. You'd be surprised how many folks ignore this easy preventative step.
When you do change your own plugs, you need to revisit them with your torque wrench after a dozen or so heat/cool cycles of the engine. The problem of the plugs backing out, especially when you use anti-seize, is the expansion and contraction rate of the plug threds is different than that of the head. It's especially bad on vehicles with Aluminum heads. I wouldn't change out those plugs, if it were me. They cost a small fortune, compared to conventional plugs, and platinum just doesn't wear out. |
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Use NGK or ND(Nippon Denso) spark plugs the next time you replace them. These are OEM for Toyotas.
You could spring for Laser Platinum or Iridium sparkplugs. They can be pricey but will last a long time. They could be considered lifetime service in some applications. Apply anti-seize sparingly on the threads and torque to specifications. It sounds like you did this correctly. The Bosch Platinums are not the greatest plug. They are a gimmick plug like Splitfires.The little speck of platinum doesn't last all that long. The four ground electrodes are supposed to wear evenly but usually one maybe two will wear and the others don't . If you get a chance look at a lifetime sparkplug and you will see the platinum attached to the ground electrode and the center electrode. I use a magnifying glass because I can't see shit like I used to 
One other thing to check if you have a running problem is the air flow senser wire. These get dirty and need to be cleaned with contact cleaner and gentle air flow. If you have a oiled gauze filter the excess oil from the filter can coat the senser. |
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I don't use anti seize on any plugs, except Ford 3Vs, and I've never had any problem with them loosening up or being difficult to remove later. If anything, I've ran into problems later on the one or two that I've used anti seize on, but those are kinda oddball specific applications, quirks of the manufacturer so to speak.
Bosch plugs are hit and miss in a lot of vehicles out there. I've chased more random misfire concerns on account of Bosch plugs than anything else. For best results on anything, regardless of who makes it, go with the OEM replacement plug IMO. That should be an NGK or Denso for your Tundra. |
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The PLUG coming loose doesn't have anything to do with the brand. However, the top cap of the plug coming lose I think is a direct problem with the Bosch plugs I bought. They're the only brand I've EVER had that came with a cap you put on yourself.
I had two problems that I found. Loose plugs, and loose plug caps (or whatever that piece is called) As far as not using anti-seize? These are Aluminum heads and I'd be scared to death not to use it, much to easy to strip out the threads and then life won't be fun for me. I'm going to pull the Bosch's and replace them with NGK's just becaues I don't want to have to worry about those darn little cap pieces any more. Yes it'll cost some money but who knows how much gas that little issue by itself cost me and for how long. Excellent tip about going back and rechecking the torque after a few heat/cool cycles. That never occured to me but I'll be sure to do that. After doing that retorque once, am I likely to have to continue doing it occasionally? |
| I installed thousands of Bosch plugs when I used to work @ Percision Tune many moons ago, they are good plugs. I usually tightened the little brass ends with needlenose before installing the plugs. Never ever had a prob w/ one like I did with Champion. Never put Stainless plugs in an alum cyl head!! |
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As far as not using anti-seize? These are Aluminum heads and I'd be scared to death not to use it, much to easy to strip out the threads and then life won't be fun for me. Anti seize or no anti seize, it's kinda like stainless versus chrome lined barrels, there's folks out there that'll tell you to use it or not to use it. I read a publication from AC Delco that says not to use anti seize on plug threads, with the reasoning that the anti seize lowers the friction of the threads so that when the plug is torqued to spec, the plug is actually overtightened potentially increasing the chances of stripping/damaging the threads. Conventional wisdom though says that with two dissimilar metals, anti seize would be well advised on something with aluminum cylinder heads. IME with the brands I deal with on a regular basis, Isuzu and Mitsubishi say no to anti seize on spark plug threads. Ford says to use it very sparingly in a very specific application, and not on the threads themselves but on a portion of the spark plug that extends into the cylinder head. For what it's worth, I install all plugs with the threads dry. I'll torque to spec with a torque wrench where room/clearance allows me to, otherwise I run the plug down by hand until it bottoms out, then go another 1/8 to 1/4 turn. I've never had a problem with one loosening, being difficult to remove later, or damaging the threads in the cylinder head with that method. |
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The PLUG coming loose doesn't have anything to do with the brand. However, the top cap of the plug coming lose I think is a direct problem with the Bosch plugs I bought. They're the only brand I've EVER had that came with a cap you put on yourself. I had two problems that I found. Loose plugs, and loose plug caps (or whatever that piece is called) As far as not using anti-seize? These are Aluminum heads and I'd be scared to death not to use it, much to easy to strip out the threads and then life won't be fun for me. It's possible that the sealing/crushrings on the Bosch caused a problem with proper torque. With NGK or ND plugs they have a nice sealing ring. I don't use a torque wrench because I have done a bazillion spark plugs. I anti-seize the threads and start the thread by hand or with a piece of vacumn tubing/plug starter tool by MAC TOOLS. Then I use a ratchet to run the plug in till it hits the ring and go another 1/8 turn. I do have a calibrated elbow that clicks when the proper torque is achieved  .
I had another tech tell me I needed to use a torque wrench on oil drain plugs. I tightened the plug and told him to get his torque wrench. His wrench clicked just as it started to turn the drain plug. I've done a bazillion oil changes too  .
I think that once you have rechecked the plug torque there would be no need to do it again. |
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I dunno about you guys, but I don't like those +2 or +4 bullshit plugs. I've always had to put OEM bosch ones in to fix the running problems they caused. Bosch definately makes a good plug though, so long as you don't get the gimmicky ones. I never understood the multiple electrode thing. More is better? Uh, no. |
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As far as not using anti-seize? These are Aluminum heads and I'd be scared to death not to use it, much to easy to strip out the threads and then life won't be fun for me. I read a publication from AC Delco that says not to use anti seize on plug threads, with the reasoning that the anti seize lowers the friction of the threads so that when the plug is torqued to spec, the plug is actually overtightened potentially increasing the chances of stripping/damaging the threads. Conventional wisdom though says that with two dissimilar metals, anti seize would be well advised on something with aluminum cylinder heads. I wonder if some of this goes back to the days when cast iron heads and or tapered seat spark plugs were more common. Cast Iron is self lubricating to an extent. I do know for sure you don't want to over torque a tapered seat plug. I have battle scars from trying to break them loose  .
I have had experiance with some Isuzu Rodeo V6 engines engines with getting the plugs out. A couple had to be Kroiled and worked in and out. They were groaning and popping all the way out. I thought the threads were galled but they did come out clean.I also had some black oxide coated Autolites come out terribly hard from a 3.0l Toyota. This is why I always anti-seize. I hate Autolites. The damn sealing rings fall off and have to be fished out of the spark plug holes  .
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I dunno about you guys, but I don't like those +2 or +4 bullshit plugs. I've always had to put OEM bosch ones in to fix the running problems they caused. Bosch definately makes a good plug though, so long as you don't get the gimmicky ones. I never understood the multiple electrode thing. More is better? Uh, no. Mazda used multiple ground electrode spark plugs for longer wear. The Rotary engine fires approximately 2.8 times per eccentric shaft revolution and they wear out a lot faster. The earlier RX7 used up the ignition points like crazy. They went to electronic ignition and cured that problem. They later went to a surface gap spark plug. If anyone is interested. Get a NGK Spark Plug Catalog. They have illustrations of all their spark plugs and their configurations. |
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I dunno about you guys, but I don't like those +2 or +4 bullshit plugs. I've always had to put OEM bosch ones in to fix the running problems they caused. Bosch definately makes a good plug though, so long as you don't get the gimmicky ones. I never understood the multiple electrode thing. More is better? Uh, no. How about ONE big one 
Made by NGK , btw . |
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The only reason that some spark plug manufacturers provide two different length terminal nuts is because at one time Japanese vehicles were manufactured with non-SAE standard sized spark plugs and all other cars made in the world used the SAE standard size. Instead of making the same spark plug in different lengths, they decided to supply both sized terminal nuts to cut down on SKUs. Besides that, if you changed the spark plug wires, you would no longer need the longer terminal nuts. If you get spark plugs where you have to install the terminal nuts, they need to be tightened with a pair of pliers. If you tighten them with your fingers, they will come loose and cause misfires.
Anti-seize...some spark plug manufacturers do not recommend the use of anti-seize. Bosch does not recommend the use of anti-seize. Bosch spark plugs have nickel plated steel shells on their spark plugs and they will not rust in the cylinder head. The use of anti-seize or other grease prohibits the transfer of the heat of combustion back to the cylinder head. A spark plug does not generate any heat. It spends its life getting rid of the heat of combustion. The heat is transferred in a few ways, but the majority of the heat is transferred through the spark plug threads to cylinder head threads and the contact of the spark plug seat and cylinder head. If any grease is present it interferes with the heat transfer and can cause the spark plugs to over heat. A spark plug can over heat for a couple reasons. If a spark plug is not tightened properly and it comes loose, it cannot transfer heat back to the cylinder head. If an engine over heats and the driver does not heed the warning lights, the spark plugs can over heat. There are other reasons but not enough space here to get into. Which brings us to heat range....while a spark plug does not generate heat; it absorbs the heat of combustion. It must get rid of some of that heat or the ceramic insulator, center electrode and ground electrode will become blistered and melted. On the other hand a spark plug needs to retain a certain amount of heat so that it can burn off deposits left from combustion. That temperature is called the burn off temperature. The heat range is determined by the amount of steel shell left exposed on the tip of the spark plug that is inside the combustion chamber. A cold spark plug will have more of the steel shell showing which allows more heat transfer. A hotter spark plug will have some of the steel shell covered with the ceramic insulator tip to prevent as much heat transfer. Spark plug torque can be very crucial, especially now days with aluminum cylinders heads. You do not need a torque wrench, but you do need to follow the directions that come with the spark plugs. If the plugs do not have installation instructions, follow the instruction given by the vehicle manufacturer. For a spark plug with a gasket, an example of the instructions would be finger tight and a quarter turn. Excessive torque on a gasket type plug will crush the steel spring washer and the spark plug will come loose. For a taper seat spark plug, an example would be finger tight and a eighth of a turn. Ford has been criticized for spark plugs coming loose in cylinder heads where their OE spark plugs and cylinder heads are only threaded on half of the steel shell of the spark plugs. Yes, because of having fewer threads, torque is more crucial. The OE plugs do not come loose. When someone replaces the plugs and does not torque them properly they will come loose and even fall out of the cylinder. The reason for different metals for center electrodes is that metals such as platinum or iridium wear much better and last much longer than traditional copper plugs. The reason for multiple ground electrodes is that spark plugs retain the correct gap for a much longer period than a single ground electrode plug. Electricity when jumping a gap will find the shortest path. When one ground electrode wears enough, the spark will use another path that is closer…thus keeping the optimal gap for a much longer time than a conventional spark plug. Splitfire plugs were a gimmick. These plugs were manufactured by Autolite during the 1990’s. The only difference between a Splitfire and an Autolite was that the ground electrode had a notch cut into the surface. Splitfire claimed better gas mileage and lower emissions. During testing they performed no better than any other spark plug, and in some cases they performed worse. In 1997, The Federal Trade Commission charged Splitfire with deceptive advertising. They are still around and sell other ignition products, but they no longer make the claims they did in the past. Your problems are not caused by the brand of spark plug you used. |
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Use NGK or ND(Nippon Denso) spark plugs the next time you replace them. These are OEM for Toyotas. Correct You could spring for Laser Platinum or Iridium sparkplugs. They can be pricey but will last a long time. Around here, another fella and I found we could buy the NGK Iridium cheaper than the NGK Platinums (at Pep-Boys), and the Iridium is a better plug (100,000 mile in Toyota) It is also told that voltage requirements are less to jump the gap with Iridium. Apply anti-seize sparingly on the threads and torque to specifications. It sounds like you did this correctly. I got away from anti-seize, as when the oily part goes away, you is left with a bunch of debris... I been using Mobil-1 synthetic grease. |
| Thanks roadhawk, I had no idea there were 2 different configurations of top. I hear what you're saying about the anti-seize interfering with heat transfer but I'm just worried with these aluminum heads about siezing up. I swapped out the plugs today and looked them over very closely. In most cases the center electrode was below the level of the ceramic and the ceramic tip (just the tip) was heavily blackened. Anyway, the NGK's are in and it's running well. |
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Use NGK or ND(Nippon Denso) spark plugs the next time you replace them. These are OEM for Toyotas. Correct You could spring for Laser Platinum or Iridium sparkplugs. They can be pricey but will last a long time. Around here, another fella and I found we could buy the NGK Iridium cheaper than the NGK Platinums (at Pep-Boys), and the Iridium is a better plug (100,000 mile in Toyota) It is also told that voltage requirements are less to jump the gap with Iridium. Apply anti-seize sparingly on the threads and torque to specifications. It sounds like you did this correctly. I got away from anti-seize, as when the oily part goes away, you is left with a bunch of debris... I been using Mobil-1 synthetic grease. I think the "debris" as you call it is a mixture of finely powdered metals that don't react with the metal plating on the spark plug or the aluminum in the cylinder head. There may be other stuff too, I don't know. I've seen regular and high temperature anti-seize. Both were silvery-grey. There is one that is copper colored. It stinks like hell when used on exhaust studs. NGK and ND seem to have a good quality of cadmium plating on the threads. I think this helps a lot with seizing. I've use molybdenum disulfide grease on plug threads too. I also have some Valvoline Hi-Temp synthetic that works too. The Valvoline works real good on guns too. 
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I left it @ "debris", and like you refer to, it 's the mix of fillers that leaves behind a dry caking-mud. I used to use the std silver anti-seize on caliper slide pins... no more of that, the debris cakes up and binds the slide pins after the oil bakes away from braking heat, calipers no longer float.
Mobil-1 makes for nice "trigger slick" on the AR trigger sear surface, along with a dab on the nose of my M11-9 SMG sear and bolt catch notch. I even use it on the barrel' cone of my 38 Super 1911 comp gun |
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