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Posted: 2/7/2022 12:48:45 PM EST
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I went on a relocation flight on the B24 Witchcraft over a decade ago. Got to crawl all over and go into the nose during flight. I thought it was part of the CAF but doesnt look like it? Collings Foundation eta: beat again... 
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Posted: 2/7/2022 12:51:35 PM EST
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I really liked how they used donations from the Midland area to get established, fleeced lifetime donors and support then slowly relocated all the more interesting planes out of Midland, so that fundraising would slowly dry up in order for the leadership to be able to move to Dallas and leave the Midland portion a shell of what it was. The CAF had three headquarters before they moved to Midland and were well established when they did. Corporations move their HQ. That isn’t uncommon and again, had happened a few times already with the CAF. The Dallas location has been very good for the CAF. |
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Posted: 2/7/2022 2:45:14 PM EST
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What is the CAF's succession plan? Seems like most of the guys I know (hung out with Pat Epps back in the day) working on these engines are vets that supported them when active; who is going to keep up this work when all the vets are gone? It is a constant effort to find and train volunteers. There are many programs, both locally and nationally, to do this. None of us popped out of our mothers with the ability to wrench on a V-12 or fly a big piston fighter, so training and mentorship remains the way to teach people these skills. There are lots of outreach programs to try and get people involved, and all of the CAF units that I'm associated with are always on the hunt for volunteers who are interested in learning how to take part. The core reason why I spent the better part of two decades as a "never CAF'er" was because of the old "good ol' boys club" mentality the organization previously had. A mentality that said, if you don't have skills or money, we're not interested in your participation. As a teenager, I didn't have either of those things, but I had tons of unbridled enthusiasm that could have been put to use; rather, I was basically told, "beat it, kid". This is what is different about the current incarnation of the CAF compared to the past -- there is an understanding that stewardship of these aircraft and the men who rode them into battle requires outreach to find and train the next generation to keep 'em flying. |
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Posted: 2/7/2022 2:53:00 PM EST
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Maybe you should have a book burning to rid the world of any publication that mentions the Confederate Air Force! And then there is the digital world. I’m sure you will figure out how to delete historic references there as well. All for the good of the people. I think we have heard that before.  Nobody is trying to erase the name from anyone's memory or forget it existed. If you think this is what's going on, then you're fighting imaginary battles in your head. You could even actually check this out for yourself before peeing your pants about "history being erased". Something as simple as checking out the CAF's youtube channel shows plenty of references to the old name. https://www.youtube.com/c/CAFMediaTV/videos Again, the people and the organization are focused on the mission to honor, educate, and inspire, and not waste the limited time, effort and money available on irrelevant shit like a name change that occurred literally a generation ago and has nothing whatsoever to do with WWII. |
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Posted: 2/7/2022 2:54:05 PM EST
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm sorry, but the B 24 is just plain ugly. I would rather have ridden a Boeing into battle any day. It flies as good as it looks, too. |
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Posted: 2/7/2022 2:56:58 PM EST
[#6]
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Posted: 2/7/2022 2:57:43 PM EST
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I really liked how they used donations from the Midland area to get established, fleeced lifetime donors and support then slowly relocated all the more interesting planes out of Midland, so that fundraising would slowly dry up in order for the leadership to be able to move to Dallas and leave the Midland portion a shell of what it was. Well, notwithstanding that the CAF was a large established museum well before it got to Midland, large organizations -- especially museums that rely on the ability of the public to visit -- have to make choices that benefit the reason for the organization's existence. Dallas is a substantially better location not only for the people who currently keep the organization running, but also for public access to the aircraft and facilities. None of that is "fleecing" anyone. None of that is done with malice or disingenuous purposes. Geography does matter. The original Mercedes and Harlingen locations had to do with where the original members lived. I'm sure the people at KHRL felt the same about the move to Midland as you feel about the move to Dallas. |
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Posted: 2/7/2022 3:02:33 PM EST
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well, notwithstanding that the CAF was a large established museum well before it got to Midland, large organizations -- especially museums that rely on the ability of the public to visit -- have to make choices that benefit the reason for the organization's existence. Dallas is a substantially better location not only for the people who currently keep the organization running, but also for public access to the aircraft and facilities. None of that is "fleecing" anyone. None of that is done with malice or disingenuous purposes. Geography does matter. The original Mercedes and Harlingen locations had to do with where the original members lived. I'm sure the people at KHRL felt the same about the move to Midland as you feel about the move to Dallas. I went to quite a few fundraisers soliciting oil men to donate and get Fifi back up and air worthy. Their money, their business, no guarantees, but a lot of people who gave money to the museum won't bother anymore from the feeling they took private and public money and ran. |
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Posted: 2/7/2022 3:11:35 PM EST
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I went to quite a few fundraisers soliciting oil men to donate and get Fifi back up and air worthy. Their money, their business, no guarantees, but a lot of people who gave money to the museum won't bother anymore from the feeling they took private and public money and ran. Certainly I'm sympathetic to that, that sucks. But it isn't personal or disingenuous. I don't know anything about the decisionmaking process to move HQ, but I'm sure it was not taken lightly. |
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Posted: 2/7/2022 3:14:00 PM EST
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No. And that is not helpful. The Commemorative Air Force would have not survived if they had not changed their name. The mission and the people are the same. The members take care of things but for the most part corporations and foundations fund it. They could have kept the old name (and I joined when they were) and died. Or they could be the exact same orginization with a more mission correct name and continue to be solvent. That is the choice. If keeping the old name and going out of business seems like a better idea to you, that is insane. I stopped supporting them when they did. Bunch of political kiss-asses. |
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Posted: 2/7/2022 3:21:47 PM EST
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Actually it just underlines how long the wokeism's been fermenting and it's commitment to the long game. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Same here, but that battle was lost a long time ago, well before the woke-ism of today. Yeah I was reading Jaws last month and the author talks about white privilege in chapter 1 maybe 2. |
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Posted: 2/7/2022 3:25:04 PM EST
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I stopped supporting them when they did. Bunch of political kiss-asses. Frankly, if you think that a name change is more important than the actual mission of the organization, then it isn't for you anyway. Thanks for your past support. |
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Posted: 2/7/2022 3:25:15 PM EST
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not a member, but the one in Houston had an Open Hanger thing so we went and shot some pictures while playing with the new camera. https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51821568637_035ca57182_b.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51822857949_6af8e51ee1_b.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51821568562_99c2537644_b.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51822627243_13a304f220_b.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51822857529_16100b0487_b.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51822626628_6a6f714e66_b.jpg Those are fantastic! |
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Posted: 2/7/2022 3:39:35 PM EST
[#14]
@MudEagle
Is that Brad M. in the lower left? |
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Posted: 2/7/2022 3:43:51 PM EST
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I stopped supporting them when they did. Bunch of political kiss-asses. Again, you would rather they fall upon their swords and die over something that is not a part of their mission? That is absurd. |
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Posted: 2/7/2022 3:55:05 PM EST
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @MudEagle Is that Brad M. in the lower left? In the '24 cockpit pic? Ryan Zimmerman. |
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Posted: 2/7/2022 4:43:10 PM EST
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Frankly, if you think that a name change is more important than the actual mission of the organization, then it isn't for you anyway. Thanks for your past support. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I stopped supporting them when they did. Bunch of political kiss-asses. Frankly, if you think that a name change is more important than the actual mission of the organization, then it isn't for you anyway. Thanks for your past support. "What you have to say doesn't count, I'm going to just dismiss you, now go stand in the corner."  If you're convinced what you did was for true and right reasons, you don't have to avoid discussing it like the plague, especially not with a brush-off. |
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Posted: 2/7/2022 5:05:34 PM EST
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "What you have to say doesn't count, I'm going to just dismiss you, now go stand in the corner." If you're convinced what you did was for true and right reasons, you don't have to avoid discussing it like the plague, especially not with a brush-off. I don't see anyone in this thread who actually wants to have a discussion about the name change. What I see are a number of declarations of disapproval of both the change and the reason for it. It would be different if the posts were, "I don't understand the name change, what were the factors involved in the decisionmaking?" Which, by the way, if they were actually interested in knowing, there have been reams of paper written on the topic that are easily accessible. It wasn't like this was a change that occurred in the dark of night by surprise. Nor was it "political kiss-ass" or "bowing to the woke mob." It would be different if they said, "I disagree with the name change, but I believe in the purpose of the organization," but that's not it either. Guess what -- there are a whole lot of people who have that opinion who are still members and still volunteers. But, alas, that's not what we see. Instead, it is "I stopped supporting them after that". So, these are people who have already made up their minds. They are not in this thread to discuss...they are virtue signaling their moral superiority by their disagreement with the decision. I find their "logic" in arriving at this opinion entirely unpersuasive ("giving in to wokeness" vs not having an organization to support this mission at all) and even worse see their prioritization of something completely irrelevant to the mission over that actual mission as silly and petty. So, I'm not inclined to waste my time on trying to convince them of something they already seem quite decided upon. If you find that dismissive, then so be it...but you must also recognize that the posters who I'm responding to are also being equally dismissive with their proclamations of disapproval and conviction in their understanding of why it occurred. I'm happy to welcome anyone who wants to participate in or contribute to the organization and the accomplishment of its purpose regardless of what they think of the name change...but if they think they are owed an explanation to their satisfaction, they're not going to get such a thing, as people are out trying to honor, educate, and inspire. |
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Posted: 2/7/2022 5:13:04 PM EST
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've noted a few times that I went from being a "never CAF'er" back in the 80s/90s/00s based on their gatekeeping and somewhat elitist attitude combined with a sketchy safety record, to today I am balls deep in sponsoring/flying a handful of CAF aircraft and am an officer with two different CAF units. Great organization with a very important mission that I deeply care about. Last year, in the right seat of Diamond Lil. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/470117/212073787_109179301431427_80918201783869-2267473.JPG Flying aboard “Diamond Lil” is on my bucket list. My Father served as a Tailgunner on a B24 so I would like to experience a tiny, little, piece of that just to add background to his stories. Cost isn’t the issue, I just need to make the time and place work out. |
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Posted: 2/7/2022 5:14:42 PM EST
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Cost isn’t the issue, I just need to make the time and place work out. The schedule for the late summer/fall is still being finalized, but here are the tour stops for 2022. Come out and say hello if you can! https://www.airpowersquadron.org/schedule |
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Posted: 2/7/2022 5:55:45 PM EST
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It flies as good as it looks, too. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I'm sorry, but the B 24 is just plain ugly. I would rather have ridden a Boeing into battle any day. It flies as good as it looks, too. How does it fly really? Is there any horizontal osculation? My grandfather was a navigator in the 15th AF. 
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Posted: 2/7/2022 6:12:30 PM EST
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't care about the name change. They're doing good work keeping old warbirds flying and the history alive. That's what counts IMHO. I don't have any cool stories about the organization, but have been lucky enough to see more than a few of their birds flying over the years. A few from the Thunder & Lightning Over AZ show at Davis-Monthan AFB this last November: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/113647/_XHA6641provia_-_Copy_jpg-2173598.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/113647/_XHA6471provia_-_Copy_jpg-2173607.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/113647/_XHA6329provia_-_Copy_jpg-2173604.JPG oh..loves me a Hellcat and a PBJ |
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Posted: 2/7/2022 6:20:54 PM EST
[#23]
Quote HistoryAwesome picture. |
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Posted: 2/7/2022 6:35:03 PM EST
[#24]
I worked the EOD several times at the houston airshow setting up and detonating the pyrotechnics. My cousin is a long time member.
WBSU http://www.caf-eod.org |
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Posted: 2/7/2022 6:36:57 PM EST
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: oh..loves me a Hellcat and a PBJ Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I don't care about the name change. They're doing good work keeping old warbirds flying and the history alive. That's what counts IMHO. I don't have any cool stories about the organization, but have been lucky enough to see more than a few of their birds flying over the years. A few from the Thunder & Lightning Over AZ show at Davis-Monthan AFB this last November: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/113647/_XHA6641provia_-_Copy_jpg-2173598.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/113647/_XHA6471provia_-_Copy_jpg-2173607.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/113647/_XHA6329provia_-_Copy_jpg-2173604.JPG oh..loves me a Hellcat and a PBJ Yes.  My first time seeing a Hellcat fly IRL. The formation was a nice surprise, I didn't know they were going to do one. A couple more from November.   And a shot of Devil Dog from 2016 IIRC.  |
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Posted: 2/7/2022 6:40:25 PM EST
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How does it fly really? Is there any horizontal osculation? My grandfather was a navigator in the 15th AF. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I'm sorry, but the B 24 is just plain ugly. I would rather have ridden a Boeing into battle any day. It flies as good as it looks, too. How does it fly really? Is there any horizontal osculation? My grandfather was a navigator in the 15th AF. I wasn't trying to kick your puppy. 
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Posted: 2/7/2022 6:47:08 PM EST
[#27]
I used to be a cadet with CAF with Texas Raiders B17 crew. My dad was in it since the 70s and used to be super involved with a lot of it. His wing had the B-23 Dragon (now gone) that was barely flying.
When I move back stateside I'd love to get involved again. |
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Posted: 2/7/2022 7:05:14 PM EST
[#28]
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Posted: 2/7/2022 7:11:11 PM EST
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't see anyone in this thread who actually wants to have a discussion about the name change. What I see are a number of declarations of disapproval of both the change and the reason for it. It would be different if the posts were, "I don't understand the name change, what were the factors involved in the decisionmaking?" Which, by the way, if they were actually interested in knowing, there have been reams of paper written on the topic that are easily accessible. It wasn't like this was a change that occurred in the dark of night by surprise. Nor was it "political kiss-ass" or "bowing to the woke mob." It would be different if they said, "I disagree with the name change, but I believe in the purpose of the organization," but that's not it either. Guess what -- there are a whole lot of people who have that opinion who are still members and still volunteers. But, alas, that's not what we see. Instead, it is "I stopped supporting them after that". So, these are people who have already made up their minds. They are not in this thread to discuss...they are virtue signaling their moral superiority by their disagreement with the decision. I find their "logic" in arriving at this opinion entirely unpersuasive ("giving in to wokeness" vs not having an organization to support this mission at all) and even worse see their prioritization of something completely irrelevant to the mission over that actual mission as silly and petty. So, I'm not inclined to waste my time on trying to convince them of something they already seem quite decided upon. If you find that dismissive, then so be it...but you must also recognize that the posters who I'm responding to are also being equally dismissive with their proclamations of disapproval and conviction in their understanding of why it occurred. I'm happy to welcome anyone who wants to participate in or contribute to the organization and the accomplishment of its purpose regardless of what they think of the name change...but if they think they are owed an explanation to their satisfaction, they're not going to get such a thing, as people are out trying to honor, educate, and inspire. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: "What you have to say doesn't count, I'm going to just dismiss you, now go stand in the corner." If you're convinced what you did was for true and right reasons, you don't have to avoid discussing it like the plague, especially not with a brush-off. I don't see anyone in this thread who actually wants to have a discussion about the name change. What I see are a number of declarations of disapproval of both the change and the reason for it. It would be different if the posts were, "I don't understand the name change, what were the factors involved in the decisionmaking?" Which, by the way, if they were actually interested in knowing, there have been reams of paper written on the topic that are easily accessible. It wasn't like this was a change that occurred in the dark of night by surprise. Nor was it "political kiss-ass" or "bowing to the woke mob." It would be different if they said, "I disagree with the name change, but I believe in the purpose of the organization," but that's not it either. Guess what -- there are a whole lot of people who have that opinion who are still members and still volunteers. But, alas, that's not what we see. Instead, it is "I stopped supporting them after that". So, these are people who have already made up their minds. They are not in this thread to discuss...they are virtue signaling their moral superiority by their disagreement with the decision. I find their "logic" in arriving at this opinion entirely unpersuasive ("giving in to wokeness" vs not having an organization to support this mission at all) and even worse see their prioritization of something completely irrelevant to the mission over that actual mission as silly and petty. So, I'm not inclined to waste my time on trying to convince them of something they already seem quite decided upon. If you find that dismissive, then so be it...but you must also recognize that the posters who I'm responding to are also being equally dismissive with their proclamations of disapproval and conviction in their understanding of why it occurred. I'm happy to welcome anyone who wants to participate in or contribute to the organization and the accomplishment of its purpose regardless of what they think of the name change...but if they think they are owed an explanation to their satisfaction, they're not going to get such a thing, as people are out trying to honor, educate, and inspire. I expect that if I went and got down in the mud with the details, it would come down to : "keep the name or the funding, but not both," which is what I though was probably the case when I initially heard of the change in the first place. As for the why: in an age when so-called enlightened harvard will honor nazi war dead, but not confederate soldiers ... that stands pretty much everywhere. It is the simple old as history reply: if those in power think your ancestors are trash, and say "Don't even talk about them, because they were in the wrong (and yes, they were)" ... well, that wins out. The irony is grinding as the people who fought to force centralized power in contravention of what the cotus meant and against federalism so that the central power could force more people to do what they wanted was wrong too. We are stuck and beholden to our national myths. The only good thing that came of that war was freeing the slaves. I don't for a second think the caf would ever have bothered to point this out at the time nor to have even really have ever said no. Humans follow the funding ... it's basic to our screwed up nature. I'm happy the hardware keeps going. I think they're neat artifacts. I am also discontent with the stupid hypocritical reasons why the funding would have dried up over ... of all things ... a name. Toss a history full of sacrifice and a great amount of worthwhile learning about the failures of human nature and the past out ... in order to preserve history. The CAF came through town here some years back, and I would love to have gotten to see them, unfortunately, life wouldn't let me at the time. Being pulled in opposing directions is just a wonderful part of life. |
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Posted: 2/7/2022 7:11:35 PM EST
[#30]
<---Life Member.
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Posted: 2/7/2022 7:12:59 PM EST
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My dad is in a group in Oklahoma. They just finished rebuilding an A-26. It ended up being a 15-20 year project. All volunteers working every Saturday more or less. Very proud of the group as it is an excellent plane. Here is a link to video of it's first takeoff. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJYBOtp4Aw4 And a link to the first landing https://www.youtube.com/shorts/4XFHGypcQBY Beautiful.
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Posted: 2/7/2022 7:14:04 PM EST
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I took this of the Yellow Rose a long time ago, very. I lived as a kid about 2 miles from the Harlingen airport. Prefer this picture to the new one, cough cough https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/207221/330668-R1-01-1a_JPG-2270365.JPG LOL! |
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Posted: 2/7/2022 7:17:12 PM EST
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It is a constant effort to find and train volunteers. There are many programs, both locally and nationally, to do this. None of us popped out of our mothers with the ability to wrench on a V-12 or fly a big piston fighter, so training and mentorship remains the way to teach people these skills. There are lots of outreach programs to try and get people involved, and all of the CAF units that I'm associated with are always on the hunt for volunteers who are interested in learning how to take part. The core reason why I spent the better part of two decades as a "never CAF'er" was because of the old "good ol' boys club" mentality the organization previously had. A mentality that said, if you don't have skills or money, we're not interested in your participation. As a teenager, I didn't have either of those things, but I had tons of unbridled enthusiasm that could have been put to use; rather, I was basically told, "beat it, kid". This is what is different about the current incarnation of the CAF compared to the past -- there is an understanding that stewardship of these aircraft and the men who rode them into battle requires outreach to find and train the next generation to keep 'em flying. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: What is the CAF's succession plan? Seems like most of the guys I know (hung out with Pat Epps back in the day) working on these engines are vets that supported them when active; who is going to keep up this work when all the vets are gone? It is a constant effort to find and train volunteers. There are many programs, both locally and nationally, to do this. None of us popped out of our mothers with the ability to wrench on a V-12 or fly a big piston fighter, so training and mentorship remains the way to teach people these skills. There are lots of outreach programs to try and get people involved, and all of the CAF units that I'm associated with are always on the hunt for volunteers who are interested in learning how to take part. The core reason why I spent the better part of two decades as a "never CAF'er" was because of the old "good ol' boys club" mentality the organization previously had. A mentality that said, if you don't have skills or money, we're not interested in your participation. As a teenager, I didn't have either of those things, but I had tons of unbridled enthusiasm that could have been put to use; rather, I was basically told, "beat it, kid". This is what is different about the current incarnation of the CAF compared to the past -- there is an understanding that stewardship of these aircraft and the men who rode them into battle requires outreach to find and train the next generation to keep 'em flying. I have worked for a living doing restoration on warbirds, I have offers from other major warbird owners to come work for them. I have tried numerous times to try to get straight answers on how to work with and help CAF with their aircraft. My inquiries have always been given vague answers. So.. On the rare occasion I am at the fly ins I will help as much as the crews will allow. |
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Posted: 2/7/2022 7:20:10 PM EST
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I stopped supporting them when they did. Bunch of political kiss-asses. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: No. And that is not helpful. The Commemorative Air Force would have not survived if they had not changed their name. The mission and the people are the same. The members take care of things but for the most part corporations and foundations fund it. They could have kept the old name (and I joined when they were) and died. Or they could be the exact same orginization with a more mission correct name and continue to be solvent. That is the choice. If keeping the old name and going out of business seems like a better idea to you, that is insane. I stopped supporting them when they did. Bunch of political kiss-asses. It wasn't a political kiss ass move. It is an optics move to appease the snowflakes and their donors. You really cannot blame them. Whether you agree with the name change or not.. Their mission is good, They are doing a damn good job at it. |
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Posted: 2/7/2022 7:26:03 PM EST
[#35]
I have a friend that owns an FM2 wildcat and a B25 among many other beautiful aircraft. He is a riot.
He and his son have given my kids some really cool experiences. He and his wife are genuinely good people. He and my oldest son.   My youngest in his hangar having a sit down with the P-38.  |
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Posted: 2/7/2022 7:31:21 PM EST
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have worked for a living doing restoration on warbirds, I have offers from other major warbird owners to come work for them. I have tried numerous times to try to get straight answers on how to work with and help CAF with their aircraft. My inquiries have always been given vague answers. So.. On the rare occasion I am at the fly ins I will help as much as the crews will allow. Sad that the good ole boy network still is impacting this effort |
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Posted: 2/7/2022 7:33:19 PM EST
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sad that the good ole boy network still is impacting this effort Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I have worked for a living doing restoration on warbirds, I have offers from other major warbird owners to come work for them. I have tried numerous times to try to get straight answers on how to work with and help CAF with their aircraft. My inquiries have always been given vague answers. So.. On the rare occasion I am at the fly ins I will help as much as the crews will allow. Sad that the good ole boy network still is impacting this effort  One of the most disappointing answers I got was.. This is a retired person and rich kids gig. If you aren't rich just go to work and let the retired and rich kids do the work. |
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Posted: 2/7/2022 7:40:33 PM EST
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I saw an L-5 flying the other day when I was out on our ramp, must be his. I guess I need to sneak down there on lunch and check it out. My Grandfather flew in the back of those sometimes during the Battle Of The Bulge. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I've noted a few times that I went from being a "never CAF'er" back in the 80s/90s/00s based on their gatekeeping and somewhat elitist attitude combined with a sketchy safety record, to today I am balls deep in sponsoring/flying a handful of CAF aircraft and am an officer with two different CAF units. Great organization with a very important mission that I deeply care about. Last year, in the right seat of Diamond Lil. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/470117/212073787_109179301431427_80918201783869-2267473.JPG Was that when Diamond Lil and Fifi were based out of the Vintage Flying Museum at Meacham? VFM's director of operations is a very good friend of mine. He recently bought a Stinson L-5 for himself. I saw an L-5 flying the other day when I was out on our ramp, must be his. I guess I need to sneak down there on lunch and check it out. My Grandfather flew in the back of those sometimes during the Battle Of The Bulge. His is the one in Marine markings. |
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Posted: 2/7/2022 7:41:40 PM EST
[#39]
When I was a kid growing up in Phoenix they flew in before the air show that weekend and did some dogfights over the city. It was very cool to see and the air show that weekend was awesome.
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Posted: 2/7/2022 7:48:48 PM EST
[#40]
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Posted: 2/7/2022 8:29:07 PM EST
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OD-lx95yewYWhat's interesting is how many people get bent out of shape when anyone mentions confederate airforce. It's like saying "Voldemort" or something. Man, I hadn't see that one in a very long time. I worked for Marvin "Lefty" Gardner for awhile when I was in HS and at the start of college, 1970 era. He was running the Brownwood, TX airport and his successful spray plane operation. Lefty was one of those five founding guys mentioned in the start of the CAF Ghost Squadron in that Lowell Thomas video. He's sitting at the head of the table in that scene. I had a blast as a HS kid working there and got to go up in some interesting planes. Those were the days when the organization was in Harlingen, TX. However, Lefty still kept his P38 at Brownwood most of the time I was working there. He also had a Cavalier version P51. We also housed an F8F Bearcat and an F4F Wildcat. We also had an A20 Havoc there for awhile. The Brownwood airport was an old bomber base and had a relatively large hanger to house the planes. It was neat job for a kid, and I got to see and participate in a lot of cool stuff while working there. I got to talk to and hear stories from some of these guys that ranged from them flying a lot of the planes in the movie "Battle of Britain" and some involvement in some scenario where they delivered aircraft parts to a certain South American country that turned some heads. Fun times. |
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Posted: 2/7/2022 8:37:58 PM EST
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: some involvement in some scenario where they delivered aircraft parts to a certain South American country that turned some heads. Fun times. El Salvador in 1969 during the war with Honduras. Not only did they deliver a couple of P-51s to the FAS against an embargo, but a little later Lefty was one of the guys caught flying a Constellation full of Mustang parts in. |
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Posted: 2/7/2022 9:02:26 PM EST
[#43]
Thanks OP for reminding me to visit the location in Addision TX
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Posted: 2/7/2022 9:02:35 PM EST
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: El Salvador in 1969 during the war with Honduras. Not only did they deliver a couple of P-51s to the FAS against an embargo, but a little later Lefty was one of the guys caught flying a Constellation full of Mustang parts in. Now you've done it. I'll have to kill you over letting that South American operation out of the bag. Yes...I knew the details of that deal but wasn't sure how much of it needed to be public...LOL! Lefty has passed, and I'm sure the details of those events aren't even on the history radar of most folks now. MudEagle, I haven't read every post in this thread at this point. Do you have a background with the CAF or some of the old founding heads? I was a kid back then working for Lefty, but I had always been an aviation aficionado growing up...San Antonio, TX air bases and parents working on them got me started early. So I paid close attention to everything. Something was always going on there at the Brownwood airport. Buddies of Lefty's would fly in on their warbirds, and occasionally there would be an impromtu air show. It was awesome. I worked hard there, and Lefty tried to talk me into continuing a career in aviation when I started college just to the north in Cisco, TX. I had already veered toward another career field, but I always wonder how that would have worked out. |
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Posted: 2/7/2022 10:29:45 PM EST
[#45]
The kids all chipped in and got my FIL a ride in the bombardiers seat for his 80th bday.
 Attached File |
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Posted: 2/7/2022 10:36:59 PM EST
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If the changing of the name two decades ago is more important than the mission to honor the sacrifices of WWII, educate Americans on those sacrifices, and inspire the next generation of patriots, then clearly the organization isn't for you. If you change history to appease the enemies of freedom, can you really claim you are honoring their sacrifice? It's the Confederate Air Force, always has been, always will be, and the people who are offended by it will NEVER love old planes, America, Freedom or anything else we value. Stop wrecking yourself trying to appease people who are always gonna hate you. Yes, it has the word Confederate, Yes, that is a Battle Flag of the Confederacy, one of many, Yes we like it, No we do not care what you think or feel. If you are offended, you can leave, because this isn't for you. You are not obligated to associate with people who hate you and will make your life worse. |
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Posted: 2/7/2022 10:38:50 PM EST
[#47]
What was the outcome of the P82 conflict with the Air Force?
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Posted: 2/7/2022 10:40:22 PM EST
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Went to a CAF show in Harlingen in the late 80s. Met Paul Tibbets. Saw a Harrier for the first time. Went across the border and drank beer. I'm pretty sure I still have pictures somewhere. Col Tibbets was a great man, always loved meeting people. I wonder if he and Chuck Yanger ever hung out. |
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Posted: 2/7/2022 10:44:04 PM EST
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Same here, but that battle was lost a long time ago, well before the woke-ism of today. "We should not honor losers!" "Losers do not deserve statues!" "They are just taking down statues that belong to Racist Democrats" Not how that fuckers are very silent lately, uh? The battle is never over. Its just beginning. I wish that Kaibird made it back from Greenland and was flying with Doc and FiFi. Hell I wish they got a B-36 flying, maybe use it to carry freight to pay for gas, or offer parachutists a change to drop from the Bomb bay |
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Posted: 2/7/2022 10:45:13 PM EST
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Actually it just underlines how long the wokeism's been fermenting and it's commitment to the long game. "Evil preaches tolerance until it is in a position of power, then it silences good. |
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