Posted: 3/16/2014 12:37:02 PM EDT
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Well, that's a shocker. I guess 5% will be getting midnight visits. |
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Quoted:
Yeah, which tells you it's total bullshit. You NEVER get 95% of the people to agree on anything in any democracy. Reporters were saying they saw people who put in two ballots instead of one and so forth. Well, that is with only 50% of the votes counted; however, RIA Novosti is claiming that exit polls show 93% for joining Russia. Which meant that Crimea went from wanting to be an independent state or an autonomous state still part of the Ukraine since 1992, to wanting to be a part of Russia - and went for it in such an overwhelming fashion that every single Russian and better than 90% of the ethnic Ukranians and Tatars agreed with them. I mean hell, the Tatars make up almost 11% of the Crimean population and are still kind of sore about that whole forced deportation and attempted genocide thing; but if you believe these numbers they are either A) too busy packing their shit to make it to the polls B) suddenly willing to forgive and forget despite the giant rally against this a few weeks ago. Subtlety.. if you are going to steal elections, do it the American way and keep the voting margin believable. |
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Quoted:
Well, that is with only 50% of the votes counted; however, RIA Novosti is claiming that exit polls show 93% for joining Russia. Which meant that Crimea went from wanting to be an independent state or an autonomous state still part of the Ukraine since 1992, to wanting to be a part of Russia - and went for it in such an overwhelming fashion that every single Russian and better than 90% of the ethnic Ukranians and Tatars agreed with them. I mean hell, the Tatars make up almost 11% of the Crimean population and are still kind of sore about that whole forced deportation and attempted genocide thing; but if you believe these numbers they are either A) too busy packing their shit to make it to the polls B) suddenly willing to forgive and forget despite the giant rally against this a few weeks ago. Subtlety.. if you are going to steal elections, do it the American way and keep the voting margin believable. Quoted:
Quoted:
Yeah, which tells you it's total bullshit. You NEVER get 95% of the people to agree on anything in any democracy. Reporters were saying they saw people who put in two ballots instead of one and so forth. Well, that is with only 50% of the votes counted; however, RIA Novosti is claiming that exit polls show 93% for joining Russia. Which meant that Crimea went from wanting to be an independent state or an autonomous state still part of the Ukraine since 1992, to wanting to be a part of Russia - and went for it in such an overwhelming fashion that every single Russian and better than 90% of the ethnic Ukranians and Tatars agreed with them. I mean hell, the Tatars make up almost 11% of the Crimean population and are still kind of sore about that whole forced deportation and attempted genocide thing; but if you believe these numbers they are either A) too busy packing their shit to make it to the polls B) suddenly willing to forgive and forget despite the giant rally against this a few weeks ago. Subtlety.. if you are going to steal elections, do it the American way and keep the voting margin believable. Exactly. |
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Quoted:
Was there even an option to vote "no", or just an option to "abstain." Yes, there was. IMO, however, the plan was flawed by not presenting three options: 1 - Stay in the Ukraine 2 - Join Russia 3 - Declare true independence Only the first two options were presented in the referendum. Realistically, I have a feeling that the actual sentiments in Crimea would tend towards the third option more than either of the other two positions. |
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Quoted:
Yes, there was. IMO, however, the plan was flawed by not presenting three options: 1 - Stay in the Ukraine 2 - Join Russia 3 - Declare true independence Only the first two options were presented in the referendum. Realistically, I have a feeling that the actual sentiments in Crimea would tend towards the third option more than either of the other two positions. Quoted:
Quoted:
Was there even an option to vote "no", or just an option to "abstain." Yes, there was. IMO, however, the plan was flawed by not presenting three options: 1 - Stay in the Ukraine 2 - Join Russia 3 - Declare true independence Only the first two options were presented in the referendum. Realistically, I have a feeling that the actual sentiments in Crimea would tend towards the third option more than either of the other two positions. Last I had seen the referendum question was going to be an independent Crimea or Crimea as a part of Russia. There wasn't any "remain part of the Ukraine" option; but that was the language for the March 10 referendum. They kept changing the referendum question language and date it would be held until I lost track of what was going on - first it was May 25, then March 30, then March 10, finally March 16. Interesting to see how they jumped that date forward once they saw what the response from the West was. |
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Quoted:
Russians don't give a shit about being politically correct or looking clean. They do exactly what needs to be done to achieve their goals. I wish the United States wouldn't pussy foot around with shit we need to get done as well. Something to be said here. |
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Absolute and utter bullshit. Pure bullshit. I hope the sanctions put a real hurt on them, and knowing Russia's economic situation it very well could. Disgusting to see Soviet flags flying with these same people, the "new" crimean military having troops that wear Che Guevara items, and the general Communist way of things making a massive resurgence. |
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Quoted: Something to be said here. Quoted: Quoted: Russians don't give a shit about being politically correct or looking clean. They do exactly what needs to be done to achieve their goals. I wish the United States wouldn't pussy foot around with shit we need to get done as well. Something to be said here.  What? That being lying pieces of communist shit that force your view on others is a good thing? |
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Quoted: What? That being lying pieces of communist shit that force your view on others is a good thing? Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Russians don't give a shit about being politically correct or looking clean. They do exactly what needs to be done to achieve their goals. I wish the United States wouldn't pussy foot around with shit we need to get done as well. Something to be said here. What? That being lying pieces of communist shit that force your view on others is a good thing? America sometimes worries too much about preserving some kind of pristine image and trying real hard to be liked. Well, we're the world's super power and no matter what we do, people won't like us. We'd of been better served by installing some kind of warlord in Iraq and Afghanistan, instead of democracy which, as you see fucked us. Iraq has been giving major oil contracts to countries other than the USA. And we're the ones that spent all the blood and money allowing that government to exist at all. |
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Quoted:
Yes, there was. IMO, however, the plan was flawed by not presenting three options: 1 - Stay in the Ukraine 2 - Join Russia 3 - Declare true independence Only the first two options were presented in the referendum. Realistically, I have a feeling that the actual sentiments in Crimea would tend towards the third option more than either of the other two positions. Quoted:
Quoted:
Was there even an option to vote "no", or just an option to "abstain." Yes, there was. IMO, however, the plan was flawed by not presenting three options: 1 - Stay in the Ukraine 2 - Join Russia 3 - Declare true independence Only the first two options were presented in the referendum. Realistically, I have a feeling that the actual sentiments in Crimea would tend towards the third option more than either of the other two positions. Wrong. The two options were actually a) join Russia, or b) become independent, and the new leaders of the Crimea said that they would just join Russia on their own if b) happened - apparently the constitution they would adopt would allow them to do that. There was literally no option on this ballot that would keep the Crimea from joining Russia. |
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Quoted:
Last I had seen the referendum question was going to be an independent Crimea or Crimea as a part of Russia. There wasn't any "remain part of the Ukraine" option; but that was the language for the March 10 referendum. They kept changing the referendum question language and date it would be held until I lost track of what was going on - first it was May 25, then March 30, then March 10, finally March 16. Interesting to see how they jumped that date forward once they saw what the response from the West was. Quoted:
Last I had seen the referendum question was going to be an independent Crimea or Crimea as a part of Russia. There wasn't any "remain part of the Ukraine" option; but that was the language for the March 10 referendum. They kept changing the referendum question language and date it would be held until I lost track of what was going on - first it was May 25, then March 30, then March 10, finally March 16. Interesting to see how they jumped that date forward once they saw what the response from the West was. Quoted:
Wrong. The two options were actually a) join Russia, or b) become independent, and the new leaders of the Crimea said that they would just join Russia on their own if b) happened - apparently the constitution they would adopt would allow them to do that. There was literally no option on this ballot that would keep the Crimea from joining Russia. Wasn't aware that it had been changed (again); the last I had read, the non-Russian option was more or less to roll back to a previous state of autonomy under Ukraine. |
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Quoted:
Wasn't aware that it had been changed (again); the last I had read, the non-Russian option was more or less to roll back to a previous state of autonomy under Ukraine. Quoted:
Quoted:
Last I had seen the referendum question was going to be an independent Crimea or Crimea as a part of Russia. There wasn't any "remain part of the Ukraine" option; but that was the language for the March 10 referendum. They kept changing the referendum question language and date it would be held until I lost track of what was going on - first it was May 25, then March 30, then March 10, finally March 16. Interesting to see how they jumped that date forward once they saw what the response from the West was. Quoted:
Wrong. The two options were actually a) join Russia, or b) become independent, and the new leaders of the Crimea said that they would just join Russia on their own if b) happened - apparently the constitution they would adopt would allow them to do that. There was literally no option on this ballot that would keep the Crimea from joining Russia. Wasn't aware that it had been changed (again); the last I had read, the non-Russian option was more or less to roll back to a previous state of autonomy under Ukraine. I think the confusion comes from the fact that the option on the referendum that doesn't instantly join with Russia has them going back to a 1992 constitution, but they don't specify which one - there were two of them, apparently. The way the Crimean leadership is talking, it's clear they meant the version that allows them to unilaterally break off and join up with Russia. |
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Quoted:
There were two options, one to join Russia, the other to remain in the Ukraine but with greater autonomy. The "greater autonomy" part gave the Crimean govt the option of unilaterally breaking off and joining Russia on their own, and the new Crimean leadership said they would do exactly that immediately if that option was chosen. Like I said, there was literally no option on the ballot that would have kept Crimea out of Russia. |