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AR15.COM
8/7/2008 6:36:02 PM EDT
So my wife works as a chiropractic assistant, and after listening to how much these people make for such a short amount of work I am impressed. Not to mention the guy owns his own practice and sets his own hours. To me this seems like an ideal job. Help people feel better, set your own hours and make good money doing it.

From what I have researched school is approximately four years. Which isn't too bad I am still kinda young.

Any advice, comments or concerns?
8/7/2008 6:37:40 PM EDT
[#1]
My uncle was one.  He had his own practice, my aunt did the secretarial/reception stuff, and they retired at 40.  Now all he does is live in his brand new house and immaculately restore antique cars.

Go for it.
8/7/2008 7:00:45 PM EDT
[#2]
I know that a lot of Doctors think of it as hocus pocus, and don't take chiropractors seriously.
8/7/2008 7:03:09 PM EDT
[#3]
The only time I have ever been to a chiropractor he cracked my neck and my face went numb on one side for at least an hour.  He was also smoking a cigarette in the office.  What a quack!  Not saying all are quacks, but this one was!

They scare me now because I have a rod in my spine and do not want my back popped, even though it would feel good.
8/7/2008 7:13:57 PM EDT
[#4]
Go to Physical Therapy school you will get waaaaaay more respect and make more money.
8/7/2008 8:36:53 PM EDT
[#5]
My dad is a Chiropractor, in practice for 35 years.  I'm 38, and aside from two large cuts that required stitches, and some dental work, I've never been to an MD for anything but a physical.  Good Chiropractic care is amazing for keeping you healthy.

Having said that, and I'll make this as short and concise as possible, very few Chiropractors know much about Chiropractic, because what has been taught in the schools for the last 40 years ranges from "close, but not quite right" to complete BS.  It isn't the fault of the doctors; they try to do what they were taught, and what nearly every other Chiropractor does, but only get limited success with it, so most start to "branch out" to other areas, like physical therapy, massage, to even things like herbal treatments.  Plus, the AMA has spent the last 30 years actively undermining Chiropractic, making it very difficult for most people to get their Chiro care covered by insurance.  These days, you almost have to have a referral from an MD, and few MDs are willing to stray from their "pill solutions."

Honestly, most Chiropractors are having a rough time, mostly due to the insurance issue, but also because what they are taught in school doesn't help them get many of their patients well.  It certainly does help some, but it could be vastly more effective than it is if only the right things were taught.  Unfortunately, it is a fairly small community, and extremely political, with a lot of people in high places who want to protect their pet method or instrument or technique.  Plus, you have to fight the perception of many people that Chiropractors are quacks, and unfortunately, many of them are.

Over the last 10 years, Chiropractic colleges have seen enrollment drop by half.

That's not to say that you can't have a successful practice, but IMO you would need to build an up-scale practice catering to well-off folks in order to do well, so you'd need a good chunk of money to get started.  You'd need to do this in an area where there is a large population of well-off people; you couldn't just do it anywhere.  For a new doctor who isn't an "expert" right out of the gate, that's a lot of risk.

I could go on at length, but you're probably bored already, so...  

-Troy
8/7/2008 8:40:17 PM EDT
[#6]

Quoted:
So my wife works as a chiropractic assistant, and after listening to how much these people make for such a short amount of work I am impressed. Not to mention the guy owns his own practice and sets his own hours. To me this seems like an ideal job. Help people feel better, set your own hours and make good money doing it.

From what I have researched school is approximately four years. Which isn't too bad I am still kinda young.

Any advice, comments or concerns?


What you make ain't so hot compared to what goes out for insurance. Look into that there.

You're basically fucking with people's necks and spines. People who already have problems. You're going at it blind. Easy to fuck that up.... real bad.
8/7/2008 9:04:40 PM EDT
[#7]

Quoted:
You're basically fucking with people's necks and spines. People who already have problems. You're going at it blind. Easy to fuck that up.... real bad.


I've never heard of a Chiropractor who doesn't start by taking a series of X-rays at the very least.  No one is "going at it blind"; if they did, they'd be sued into oblivion.

-Troy
8/7/2008 9:10:00 PM EDT
[#8]

Quoted:

Quoted:
You're basically fucking with people's necks and spines. People who already have problems. You're going at it blind. Easy to fuck that up.... real bad.


I've never heard of a Chiropractor who doesn't start by taking a series of X-rays at the very least.  No one is "going at it blind"; if they did, they'd be sued into oblivion.

-Troy


Really? I've been to three for extended periods, and never an x-ray.
I suppose two of the three practitioners it's understandable, but the third is a pretty highly regarded practice around here.

8/7/2008 9:26:54 PM EDT
[#9]
Witch doctors and a sham of a profession. Sorry, don't beat
me up because of my opinion. How many people that you know went
to a chiropractor quit going after a couple of sessions?

I don't think it natural to be "popping" things back in place.
Know why chiropractors stay in business?
Because you have to keep going back to get things "popped" back in.

Go to a regular doctor, and get some pharmaceuticals.
Then go to the liquor store.
Then take a hot bath.
Take a day off.

I have had many injuries, but a chiropractor would be my last choice of all doctors.
8/7/2008 9:29:16 PM EDT
[#10]
Wow.  I would be very afraid.

The biggest problem with Chiropractic is the lack of focus on scientific method and objective testing, both of which were integral to the foundation of Chiropractic and its early development.  Unfortunately, the brilliant doctor/scientist/inventor/businessman (B.J. Palmer) who developed Chiropractic was also a crappy father and husband, largely ignoring both his wife and son to focus on furthering Chiropractic.  When he died in 1961, his estranged son took over Palmer Chiropractic College, threw out most of the staff and virtually all of the techniques, instruments, and data that his father had developed, and invented his own "method", without the benefit of any actual scientific methodology to determine if it worked or not.

B.J. Palmer was on the cutting edge of instrumentation and sensor development, with many major breakthroughs in X-Ray technology, among many others, being financed and developed to meet his needs in furthering Chiropractic study.  He was a committed scientist, never afraid to discard an idea, instrument, or method that proved to be incorrect or inadequate.

His son, intensely bitter about his father, destroyed all that, and Chiropractic has never been the same.

-Troy

P.S., B.J. Palmer owned one of the first AM stations, WOC (Wonders Of Chiropractic) in Davenport, Iowa and gave Ronald Reagan his first "real" job as a sports broadcaster there.  He also owned one of the first electric typewriters in existance, an early prototype of the Northeast Electric Company, which eventually became Remington Rand.
8/7/2008 9:36:22 PM EDT
[#11]
Speaking out my a$$, with the limited exposure I have to chiropractors.
Chiropractors, and massage therapists seem like decent ways to help people get the range of motion, needed to do the the physical therapy that would really fix their back problems, in the long run.
8/7/2008 9:53:03 PM EDT
[#12]
The problem is that "real" Chiropractic is all about the central nervous system, not about massages or bad backs.

Your brain contains the information that your various cells and organs need to heal you when you are injured (obviously major trauma requires additional care) and keep you healthy.  A surgeon can patch you back together or replace a joint, but your body still has to do a lot of its own work to heal you.  Your skin, bones, and muscle tissue doesn't heal by magic, but by processes in your body that are controled by your brain, with messages sent via the CNS to the appropriate areas of your body.

Your brain is pretty well armored, and normally not subjected to a lot of physical stress.  Your spinal column, and your neck in particular, is much more exposed, and much more subject to "damage".  If the vertebre in your neck are pulled or injured out of alignment, you constrict your spinal column in that area, and message traffic from your brain to the rest of your body slows down/is impaired.  It's kind of like stepping on the garden hose; the water goes from a full stream down to a trickle.

The true (and largely lost) idea of Chiropractic is to remove those misalignments to restore full function of the nervous system, allowing the body to be able to heal itself at full efficiency.

That's a simplified overview, but you get the idea.

As I said earlier, most of what the average Chiropractor does today has very little, or nothing, to do with Chiropractic.  True Chiropractic *works*.  What most Chiropractors do doesn't.

-Troy
8/7/2008 9:53:22 PM EDT
[#13]

Quoted:
To me this seems like an ideal job. Help people feel better, set your own hours and make good money doing it.


The only problem is that chiropractic medicine is quackery, for the most part.  You give people an expensive massage, call it an 'adjustment' and claim it's scientifically based.  Reference this from the post above injured out of alignment, you constrict your spinal column in that area, and message traffic from your brain to the rest of your body slows down/is impaired. It's kind of like stepping on the garden hose; the water goes from a full stream down to a trickle.
 Clearly, it's not an empirical science.

Your best hope as a chiropractor is that they don't have a medical condition that you exacerbate, but do have a medical condition that you prevent them from getting a medical cure for, such as posture and lifestyle changes, or physical therapy.

If you have disc involvement in your back/neck injury STAY AWAY FROM A CHIROPRACTOR.  Go to a doctor, get an X-ray or MRI, and get physical therapy.  Otherwise, it's an expensive massage with some placebo effect.
8/7/2008 10:06:40 PM EDT
[#14]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
You're basically fucking with people's necks and spines. People who already have problems. You're going at it blind. Easy to fuck that up.... real bad.


I've never heard of a Chiropractor who doesn't start by taking a series of X-rays at the very least.  No one is "going at it blind"; if they did, they'd be sued into oblivion.

-Troy


Really? I've been to three for extended periods, and never an x-ray.
I suppose two of the three practitioners it's understandable, but the third is a pretty highly regarded practice around here.



My wife is getting certified as an Xray tech (paid for by the office she works for) so that she can start taking the Xrays instead of the doctor. It is something they do on every new patient.
8/7/2008 10:40:24 PM EDT
[#15]
If you go for it just be a good doctor.

The Chiropractor I see is also a Psychical therapist and he is very good. I heard all the horror stories but keep hearing one name coming up as good. So when I needed it I went to him it was like night and day & he has since treated at least 3 of my firefighters and probably half a dozen of my friends.
8/8/2008 12:35:26 AM EDT
[#16]
[
8/8/2008 4:46:12 AM EDT
[#17]

Today we're going to lay down on the table, hold tight and grit our teeth, and receive what a chiropractor once eloquently described to me as the "Whack & Crack," and have the flow of New Age energy improved through our bodies and spirits. For today's topic is chiropractic.

Like so many non-evidence based alternative medicine systems, chiropractic was established and defined by a non-scientist during a time when almost nothing useful or true was known about medicine. In this case, our inventor was Daniel D. Palmer, a practitioner of New Age healing with magnets, when medicine was in the Dark Ages of 1895. Palmer believed that his magnets could manipulate a type of immaterial spiritual essence which he believed exists in the body, and which he called "innate intelligence." Palmer reasoned that innate intelligence flows through the body through the nervous system, and that whenever an illness exists, it must be due to a nerve blockage preventing the flow of innate intelligence. It seemed reasonable to Palmer that straightening the spine through manual manipulation would relieve any crimps, thus curing virtually any disease and restoring health. Palmer called his new invention chiropractic, from the Greek for "done by hand."

Chiropractic's entire history has been quite stormy, and the early days were no exception. Palmer was soon arrested and convicted with practicing medicine without a license. His son, BJ Palmer, formed the first professional chiropractic association to cover legal expenses of the students he and his father trained.

Chiropractic is relatively unique among alternative medicine systems because, although it was originally developed based on the purely mythical and supernatural conjecture of innate intelligence, the profession as a whole has evolved and generally accepted most anatomical discoveries of modern medicine. Most (though certainly not all) modern chiropractors do accept many of the fundamentals of orthopedics and physical therapy. This has inevitably resulted in several different branches of chiropractic, with different sets of beliefs, and we'll talk more about those in a moment.

The cornerstone of chiropractic is something they call a subluxation. The first and most important thing to understand is that a chiropractic subluxation is a completely different phenomenon from an orthopedic subluxation, which is a real medical condition, and is unrelated. An orthopedic subluxation is a partial dislocation of a joint. They are significant physical displacements, and as such, they can and do appear on images such as X-rays, MRI's, and CAT scans. A chiropractic subluxation, on the other hand, is theoretic and is not visible on an imaging study or otherwise verifiable through conventional medicine. The chiropractic profession has repeatedly redefined a subluxation over the years, and the current definition is "a complex of functional and/or structural and/or pathological articular changes that compromise neural integrity and may influence organ system function and general health." As you can see, it's quite a vague definition and leaves plenty of room for individual interpretation. In practice, it usually refers to an alleged misalignment of adjacent vertebrae. According to the medical profession, such a misalignment would not have any of the detrimental effects on organs or general health claimed by chiropractors. Additionally, were there an actual nerve impingement in the spine, it would absolutely be visible on an imaging study and would absolutely not be treated through manipulation, which could easily result in irreparable injury. Therein lies the essential conflict between conventional medicine and chiropractic. Chiropractic treats imaginary conditions, that could not possibly cause the reported symptoms even if they did exist, using methods that would be highly detrimental on an actual impingement.

With such necessarily vague definitions, there are about as many different types of chiropractic as there are chiropractors; and indeed, most chiropractors do not belong to any sort of professional chiropractic association. However, most do fall into one of three main groups: Straights, Reforms, and Mixers. Straights are those who stick firmly with Palmer's original concepts of innate intelligence, tend to reject modern medicine, and honestly believe that spinal manipulation can cure most any disease. Significantly, no evidence has ever shown that straight chiropractors have a lower incidence of any given disease, or of disease in general, which kind of makes you wonder. Reforms are the opposite. They accept that innate intelligence is not a real phenomenon and tend to restrict their treatment to types of manipulation that correspond with conventional physical therapy. Those few chiropractors who are also MD's are usually Reforms. The largest group of chiropractors are the Mixers, who, as their name suggests, attempt to marry some of Palmer's original ideas of subluxations with modern anatomical knowledge and treatments. Mixers often offer various other alternative medicine systems and often take a holistic approach to health. After many decades of controversy and licensing debates, there are now accredited colleges through which chiropractors can become licensed to practice. A Doctor of Chiropractic is not a medical doctor, and is not licensed to prescribe drugs or to perform surgery in the United States. They can be listed as primary care providers, which seems surprising given they are not trained or allowed to do something as simple as prescribe an antibiotic or set a broken bone.

I have some volleyball friends who see chiropractors regularly, and swear by them. Like some other sports, volleyball is one that keeps its elder players fairly constantly in the offices of orthopedic surgeons and physical therapists. Athletic massage and physical therapy are often essential parts of injury recovery, but if improperly performed, they absolutely have potential to cause more damage and make a bad situation worse. That's why we have certification boards for massage therapists and Doctors of Physical Therapy — top physical therapists should have a DPT after their name on the door. Physical therapists who are not doctors still must have taken an accredited four-to-six-year college program and must pass a national physical therapy examination and an examination on the laws and regulations governing the practice of physical therapy. Physical therapy assistants must take an accredited two-year college program and must pass the national physical therapist assistant examination, and they may only work under the supervision of a licensed physical therapist. A physical therapy aide is not licensed and is not required to meet any education requirements and has no formal training. However, they are required to work only under the direct physical supervision of a licensed physical therapist. When my volleyball friends report back about what their chiropractor did for them today, guess what? It's often exactly the same treatment I've received from my DPT. Some of these chiropractors are doing conventional physical therapy but without having taken the training and passed the tests, and they're getting away with it because they're calling it chiropractic. Not only is that untrue, it's illegal, unless that chiropractor also happens to be a licensed physical therapist. If you have a painful sports injury, you should be going to an orthopedist anyway, who is licensed to provide medical care and can do things like order an MRI to properly assess an injury.

Many chiropractors are rational people and are knowledgeable about sports medicine or back pain, and do provide good physical therapy. The best will often be openly critical of Straight chiropractors and advise you to avoid any practitioner who follows the subluxation philosophy. This is good, but it's not as good as receiving the same advice from someone who went to medical school and whose practice is built on medical science. My question to these Reform chiropractors is: If you are so critical of the chiropractic arts, then why are you a chiropractor yourself? If you want to be a doctor and help people, fine; go to medical school, and become a doctor. Yes, it's easier, cheaper, and faster to go to chiropractor school, and there isn't so much pesky "anatomy" to learn, but if you believe medical services should be based on medical science, then you should go all the way. I'm tired of hearing chiropractors be critical of chiropractic. It's the pinnacle of hypocrisy.

There's one criticism of chiropractic that I'm not going to urge, and that's the fact that these spinal manipulations can be extremely dangerous and can cause spinal injuries that have resulted in paralysis and deaths. The most common injury is a stroke following neck manipulation. The reason I'm not going to urge this criticism is that mistakes can be made in every type of medicine, whether it's alternative or conventional. A pharmacist friend of a friend once made a mistake, filling a prescription with the wrong medication, and a child died as a result. During the ensuing lawsuit, the pharmacist took her own life. No type of treatment is free of the risk of accidental error. Fortunately, they're extremely rare.

If you have some medical condition that you've been treating with chiropractic, consider going to a medical doctor for a proper diagnosis. If an athletic massage or physical therapy are prescribed by your doctor, go to a proper physical therapist or licensed massage therapist, who are able to give you better treatment, legally and with the proper training under their belt, and who understand the medical basis for their treatment. You can only do better than with a chiropractor whose training is founded upon Palmer's 1895 conjecture of innate intelligence.


At best, a chiro is an unlicensed DPT. At worst, they are a nutjob who believes in something that has no medical basis.

Become a real healthcare professional and at least you can sleep at night knowing that you're not ripping people off.