Posted: 6/15/2017 11:16:09 AM EDT
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Does anyone have a website source that better describes how the two officers used their space and time in this shooting?
I know all the unarmed people there are praising these two officers following the shooting. Yes ok.. However ( and I would welcome anyone that can factually correct me ) it would appear that these two officers based on the video, took a position of cover for the better part of +/- 6 minutes while an active killer laid down a field of fire on their principal, which was wounded, as well as a group of other VIPs that were all pinned down in a dugout. And all of this in FRONT of them, with the shooter in the background of it all. They didn't appear to maneuver at all. In fact it appears like they didn't move from cover or try to engage the shooter at all, until the shooter advanced on THEM and flushed them from cover. Then in an exchange of fire, everyone got shot. I wouldn't be surprised if we learn someday that there was some friendly fire here but that's just conjecture. What is NOT conjecture is that two LEOs tasked with a protection detail allowed the principal to be shot and lay in an open field of fire, along with a dozen other VIPs, for +/- 6 long minutes while they hid. I'm not faulting them for using cover and concealment to their advantage. I am however questioning why they didn't press the fight. No use of the black SUV that was apparently theirs that could have been moved to protect the wounded principal or ram the entrenched position. No "you go left I'll go right" plan to trap the shooter in triangulating fire. No plan at all..... |
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Pistols vs scoped rifle at a distance of a few hundred feet across an open area doesn't leave many good options. |
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Does anyone have a website source that better describes how the two officers used their space and time in this shooting? I know all the unarmed people there are praising these two officers following the shooting. Yes ok.. However ( and I would welcome anyone that can factually correct me ) it would appear that these two officers based on the video, took a position of cover for the better part of +/- 6 minutes while an active killer laid down a field of fire on their principal, which was wounded, as well as a group of other VIPs that were all pinned down in a dugout. And all of this in FRONT of them, with the shooter in the background of it all. They didn't appear to maneuver at all. In fact it appears like they didn't move from cover or try to engage the shooter at all, until the shooter advanced on THEM and flushed them from cover. Then in an exchange of fire, everyone got shot. I wouldn't be surprised if we learn someday that there was some friendly fire here but that's just conjecture. What is NOT conjecture is that two LEOs tasked with a protection detail allowed the principal to be shot and lay in an open field of fire, along with a dozen other VIPs, for +/- 6 long minutes while they hid. I'm not faulting them for using cover and concealment to their advantage. I am however questioning why they didn't press the fight. No use of the black SUV that was apparently theirs that could have been moved to protect the wounded principal or ram the entrenched position. No "you go left I'll go right" plan to trap the shooter in triangulating fire. No plan at all..... Playing monday morning quarterback without the actual facts is like farting under your bed covers. You don't mind, but everyone else does. |
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Tag. I haven't watched the video but are you sure you've identified the guys and that they actually hid. |
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Sure. Im with you. But this was a very tight environment behind the backstop. Buildings and a car all in a confined area. Plenty of things that could have been done. Not just a frontal assault across open field. Quoted:
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Pistols vs scoped rifle at a distance of a few hundred feet across an open area doesn't leave many good options. No one died, seems like what they did was good enough. |
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Pistols vs scoped rifle at a distance of a few hundred feet across an open area doesn't leave many good options. A halfway competent person in those circumstances would very likely have killed both cops and every person at the field. 
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What is your background that allows you such an opinion on what they did? No one died, seems like what they did was good enough. |
One wounded (a woman even) and the other injured by something other than gunfire. But hey, I'm sure you have all the tactical expertise to critique them with no info. 
They were armed with a pistol and went against guy with a rifle, probably without the ability to communicate or coordinate. They did alright in my book. |
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So OP, guy has an AR15 and is under cover. You have maybe a 10mm pistol, ar you going to rush him and try to take him out or are you going to wait and try to make a plan and take him out?  Monday morning quarterbacking aside, training for such an event generally is going to dictate (1) maneuvering to protect the wounded principal even if your life is placed in danger to do so. Thats your job. And/or (2) maneuvering to an advantageous position to lay fire on the shooter. They did neither. ALL training for such an event is going to promote that you act, not hunker down. |
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My background is sufficient to know this is a failure. This is a film that is going to be shown in 1000 agencies to 10,000 officers as an example of what not to do. Attached File OP and what he really is. Attached File |
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One wounded (a woman even) and the other injured by something other than gunfire. But hey, I'm sure you have all the tactical expertise to critique them with no info.
They were armed with a pistol and went against guy with a rifle, probably without the ability to communicate or coordinate. They did alright in my book. They were standing next to one another the entire time |
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Typical GD bullshit by an OP who knows nothing.
I bet some of that time they were on comms with their superiors, who were trying to determine whether or not they had other alternatives they could employ; SWAT, SOU teams, etc...some of the time was probably spent developing a plan of attack. What is important is that they prevailed against what would arguably be superior firepower, with minimal collateral damage and with some harm to themselves. Should they have just ran at the perp Glocks blazing? |
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OP and what he thinks he is. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/175733/IMG-5253-231168.JPG OP and what he really is. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/175733/IMG-5255-231170.JPG |
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Couldnt communicate? They were standing next to one another the entire time Quoted:
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One wounded (a woman even) and the other injured by something other than gunfire. But hey, I'm sure you have all the tactical expertise to critique them with no info.
They were armed with a pistol and went against guy with a rifle, probably without the ability to communicate or coordinate. They did alright in my book. They were standing next to one another the entire time |
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Typical GD bullshit by an OP who knows nothing. I bet some of that time they were on comms with their superiors, who were trying to determine whether or not they had other alternatives they could employ; SWAT, SOU teams, etc...some of the time was probably spent developing a plan of attack. What is important is that they prevailed against what would arguably be superior firepower, with minimal collateral damage and with some harm to themselves. Should they have just ran at the perp Glocks blazing? Glad you're not running MY security detail.. And to be clear....they didnt "prevail against superior firepower". They defended themselves once the shooter advanced and overtook their position. Pretty much the same untrained kneejerk thing anyone with a gun and no training would do. |
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Before i deal with your horsecrap, shouldn't you man up and use your real account? |
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You gonna show it to your agency? But I can guarantee you it will happen. After the chest pounding stops about how these cops were such great defenders of freedom and all melts away, and supervisors everywhere start looking at this with their Lt., they are going to start using this as a "what not to do" video just like the Dinkheller video and a dozen others. |
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Does anyone have a website source that better describes how the two officers used their space and time in this shooting? I know all the unarmed people there are praising these two officers following the shooting. Yes ok.. However ( and I would welcome anyone that can factually correct me ) it would appear that these two officers based on the video, took a position of cover for the better part of +/- 6 minutes while an active killer laid down a field of fire on their principal, which was wounded, as well as a group of other VIPs that were all pinned down in a dugout. And all of this in FRONT of them, with the shooter in the background of it all. They didn't appear to maneuver at all. In fact it appears like they didn't move from cover or try to engage the shooter at all, until the shooter advanced on THEM and flushed them from cover. Then in an exchange of fire, everyone got shot. I wouldn't be surprised if we learn someday that there was some friendly fire here but that's just conjecture. What is NOT conjecture is that two LEOs tasked with a protection detail allowed the principal to be shot and lay in an open field of fire, along with a dozen other VIPs, for +/- 6 long minutes while they hid. I'm not faulting them for using cover and concealment to their advantage. I am however questioning why they didn't press the fight. No use of the black SUV that was apparently theirs that could have been moved to protect the wounded principal or ram the entrenched position. No "you go left I'll go right" plan to trap the shooter in triangulating fire. No plan at all..... What is your job? |
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My background is sufficient to know this is a failure. This is a film that is going to be shown in 1000 agencies to 10,000 officers as an example of what not to do. Quoted:
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What is your background that allows you such an opinion on what they did? No one died, seems like what they did was good enough.
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OP says they didn't maneuver.
OP says they didn't communicate. OP says they fucked it up. OP says they should have done better. Then OP asks for anyone with more information about what happened. OP acts like he has all the info, but in reality is full of shit. |
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To me the great failure is that the protection detail are tooling around in an SUV and they only have their sidearms? Why don't they have Ar-15's in the vehicle? Holy shit. 30-something responses before I start getting someone posting thats old enough to have a drivers license. |
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Thats not my job. But I can guarantee you it will happen. After the chest pounding stops about how these cops were such great defenders of freedom and all melts away, and supervisors everywhere start looking at this with their Lt., they are going to start using this as a "what not to do" video just like the Dinkheller video and a dozen others. Quoted:
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You gonna show it to your agency? But I can guarantee you it will happen. After the chest pounding stops about how these cops were such great defenders of freedom and all melts away, and supervisors everywhere start looking at this with their Lt., they are going to start using this as a "what not to do" video just like the Dinkheller video and a dozen others. His knowledge sound like it came from GTA and John Wick movies. We had a mall shooting here in WA that was SKS vs Pistol. Pistol shooter took rounds, SKS shooter was distracted for a bit. Yep, neutralizing a shooter during a shooting incident is definitely something you don't want to do. 
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Two Police with pistols versus a guy with a rifle and cover. OP we would ALL love to hear exactly what YOU would have done better than they did yesterday.
You are obviously an expert in this field of endeavor, please entertain us with your plethora of knowledge and expertise ! |
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OP says they didn't maneuver. OP says they didn't communicate. OP says they fucked it up. OP says they should have done better. Then OP asks for anyone with more information about what happened. OP acts like he has all the info, but in reality is full of shit. |
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Hey look. This is a reasonable question. I dont know why all the jr. high school caliber answers are coming out. I know its summer and everything but this is a reasonable question and I was soliciting reasonable answers as to someone that could produce a more detailed pseudo-AAR as to how they used space and time here. Quoted:
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Before i deal with your horsecrap, shouldn't you man up and use your real account? |
| They are just cops what do you expect? Seriously. They did great for what they are. They were not some tier 1 military unit or highly trained PSD element that actually has proper training and are skilled shooters. They should be commended for just shooting in the right direction and not shooting any civilians in the process. There is some pretty unrealistic monday morning quarter backing after police shoots as if they should be some high speed studs. Cops including swat are some of the most piss poorly trained individuals in this country. Their job is generally paperwork and collecting revenue not shooting let alone moving and shooting, despite how much some of their agencies spend at blackhawk.com. |
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EXACTLY. Holy shit. 30-something responses before I start getting someone posting thats old enough to have a drivers license. Quoted:
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To me the great failure is that the protection detail are tooling around in an SUV and they only have their sidearms? Why don't they have Ar-15's in the vehicle? Holy shit. 30-something responses before I start getting someone posting thats old enough to have a drivers license. OP has no idea about what happens in a dynamic, real world situation. |
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The guy had an SKS from what I have heard. Quoted:
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So OP, guy has an AR15 and is under cover. You have maybe a 10mm pistol, ar you going to rush him and try to take him out or are you going to wait and try to make a plan and take him out? |
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Hey look. This is a reasonable question. I dont know why all the jr. high school caliber answers are coming out. I know its summer and everything but this is a reasonable question and I was soliciting reasonable answers as to someone that could produce a more detailed pseudo-AAR as to how they used space and time here. I can assure you, I'm not in junior high. And it is hard to determine what transpired from that video. When was the last time you were under fire? Ever had to make the decision to leave cover to help someone down in the open? That was pinned down by a superior weapon? C'mon man, share your experiences and knowledge. The we can share ours with you. Because, I can assure you, I have more than you. |