[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Cattle farming (Page 1 of 3)
Posted: 8/6/2016 12:22:12 AM EDT
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Looking for input from livestock farmers.
I may have the ability to take over an abandoned 300+ acre beef cattle farm in Missouri. What would I be getting myself into? What kind of income, on average, can I expect? |
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Beef cattle are easy when it comes to raising livestock. Do you have your own beef cattle already or will you need to buy them? You will be in for sticker shock if you have to buy all the cattle yourself. Are you going to just let them eat grass or do you plan on feeding them to finish them faster and larger? Vet bills will also have take a nice chuck of money. You will want to get the herd checked every so often. |
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Quoted: Looking for input from livestock farmers. I may have the ability to take over an abandoned 300+ acre beef cattle farm in Missouri. What would I be getting myself into? What kind of income, on average, can I expect? 300 acre is pretty small. Why was it abandoned? Probably a terrible situation you are not prepared for. If you're asking ARFCOM these questions, it will be an expense |
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Quoted: Careful. Test tube meat is the future. Youre facing an army of snowflakes and a world where meat actually does come from the grocery store. Im not trying to disapoint you but I would think very hard about this. |
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Here is a good starter sheet from the University of Missouri Extension Office. It says $100 a head profit is the goal. If you do get into it the extension office will become your best friend for information. http://extension.missouri.edu/webster/documents/resources/agriculture/Raising_Cattle_on_a_Few_Acres-EldonCole.pdf Another article from them on Stocking rate, number of cows per acre of pasture. http://agebb.missouri.edu/news/ext/showall.asp?story_num=5292 Part of the article: A farm with good pasture, not great pasture, may grow 3 tons of forage per acre on an annual basis. That lightweight cow will need 5 tons of forage. But if the cow has a calf, as expected, that will increase the forage demand to raise the calf for six months to 7.5 tons. That shows a need for 2.5 acres per cow-calf pair. But wait, Kallenbach says. That assumes the cattle are totally efficient in harvesting forage, wasting none. At 300 acres with the 2.5 number you could have 120 cow-calf pairs. Assuming half are male that is 60 steers per year. At $100 profit that is $6,000 profit per year on 300 acres. Buying 120 pregnant cows will cost you $120,000 to $500,000 depending on breed, quality, and who they were mated too. |
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Lots of research for your area.
Water rights? Cattle per acre? Ability to work every day no matter what? Lay out expenses. Vet bills. Fencing in good repair? Going to buy or grow feed? Do you have the tools to do it? (ie truck, backhoe?) And most important, do you have the knowledge? It can be a real steep learning curve! |
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I grew up working on a ranch in N Central Texas, beef ranch, and it's a 24/7 365 job.
You need hired hands if you ever expect to take a vacation or even a weekend away. Vaccinations, castrations, eyeballs to spot any sickness, predator control,.running the fences and fixing them, feeding, moving them around, truck and trailer to take them to auction, branding.. though I suppose they are just chipped now, mostly. It never ends and you better be all in committed. |
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He said cattle, not sheep. Quoted:
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Hard work and plenty of it. And yes, it will take a few years. And it's ranching, not farming. Take an extension course in land management and animal husbandry before you do anything. He said cattle, not sheep. but he isn't in Utah, either. |
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Quoted:
I grew up working on a ranch in N Central Texas, beef ranch, and it's a 24/7 365 job. You need hired hands if you ever expect to take a vacation or even a weekend away. Vaccinations, castrations, eyeballs to spot any sickness, predator control,.running the fences and fixing them, feeding, moving them around, truck and trailer to take them to auction, branding.. though I suppose they are just chipped now, mostly. It never ends and you better be all in committed. My uncle is essentially a livestock farmer on a small scale. 500 chickens at a time, 20 pigs, and about 50 cows. The guy is brilliant, masters degree in chemistry from Notre Dame, learned to farm from the Amish. He works harder than any man I know. I know some very hard workers. Thankfully, his wife is a midwife, or he'd starve. |
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300 ac would just be a hobby. Not much money to be made. I have 160 ac, grow my own feed, and just about break even.
Run 20 mothers, 80ac pasture and 80ac cultivation. Winter wheat for grazing with summer cover crops help keep the pressure off the pasture. Rotational grazing, praying for rain all summer. Like I say, just a hobby...But I love it, that's why I do it. Also because the land is the farm my grandfather bought in 1914. |
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Feeding cattle is a break even business. Some years you make a ton, some you lose it. You are talking about a hobby farm, so don't quit the day job.
2014 was the most profitable period in the history of the beef industry (cattle feeders, and ranchers). Nobody ever expected to be profitable during this time frame, as the initial cost of acquisition was nearly record high for the inventory that became market ready during this timeframe. 2015 was the worst year in the history of the beef industry, erasing all gains made in 2014. 2016 is only slightly better, yet still unprofitable. The bloodletting the last 18 months has been nothing short of breathtaking. |
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Quoted:
I grew up working on a ranch in N Central Texas, beef ranch, and it's a 24/7 365 job. You need hired hands if you ever expect to take a vacation or even a weekend away. Vaccinations, castrations, eyeballs to spot any sickness, predator control,.running the fences and fixing them, feeding, moving them around, truck and trailer to take them to auction, branding.. though I suppose they are just chipped now, mostly. It never ends and you better be all in committed. I have a coworker who inherited a cattle ranch, the hired hand stayed on, and it's still a very time consuming job for him. I would buy an old tractor and hay baler, and sell hay to ranchers. Far easier, far less stress and pressure. Probably no money in it, but will keep the ag exemption. |
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Here is a good starter sheet from the University of Missouri Extension Office. It says $100 a head profit is the goal. If you do get into it the extension office will become your best friend for information. http://extension.missouri.edu/webster/documents/resources/agriculture/Raising_Cattle_on_a_Few_Acres-EldonCole.pdf Another article from them on Stocking rate, number of cows per acre of pasture. http://agebb.missouri.edu/news/ext/showall.asp?story_num=5292 Part of the article: A farm with good pasture, not great pasture, may grow 3 tons of forage per acre on an annual basis. That lightweight cow will need 5 tons of forage. But if the cow has a calf, as expected, that will increase the forage demand to raise the calf for six months to 7.5 tons. That shows a need for 2.5 acres per cow-calf pair. But wait, Kallenbach says. That assumes the cattle are totally efficient in harvesting forage, wasting none. At 300 acres with the 2.5 number you could have 120 cow-calf pairs. Assuming half are male that is 60 steers per year. At $100 profit that is $6,000 profit per year on 300 acres. Buying 120 pregnant cows will cost you $120,000 to $500,000 depending on breed, quality, and who they were mated too. I think you need to RE-read the links you posted the stocking rate of 2.5 was for cow/calf, the $100 per head was for backgrounding, - you can run waaaay more HPA that way WHAT were you figuring he would do with the OTHER 60 head ? ? ? Assuming a 100% calf crop. OP you're not going to get rich, most likely need another job. But if the land is free, and in reasonable condition(fencing, grass, buildings) you can make some $$ |
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I would buy an old tractor and hay baler, and sell hay to ranchers. Far easier, far less stress and pressure. Probably no money in it, but will keep the ag exemption. Selling hay is a LOSING proposition 8/10 years. If you figure the nutrients taken off by the hay and putting them back. Most times you will go backwards. Soil fertility is like $$ in the bank, you can only withdraw so much before you have to replace it. Selling hay is a continual withdrawal. |
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300 acres is nothing...
Cattle are a never ending job. The $ per hour in return is crap unless you are doing it at the commercial level/scale. If it is your back yard and you are doing it for fun...great...maybe even make a few K a year... If it isn't in your back yard...no way. |
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First- define take over. Inherit, buy, work and pay owner over time???
My wife and I have a little under 200 acres that we raise cattle, sheep, and poultry on in AL. We both work full time and I travel a lot for work. We make some money but it is a lot of work. 300 acres in that part of the country isn't too bad. Check stocking rates and fertility of the land. Cattle are high right now. This would put you in the Buy high Sell (low or high). If you don't have to borrow money to get it I might consider it. Don't buy cattle. Let someone els do that. Your investment is in making sure the fencing is up to par, seeding and fertilizing winter/summer grazing, water (supply, tanks, automatic waterers, ponds, etc...). If you have a good perimeter fence use portable electric to subdivide pastures in 10-20 acre paddocks and rotate the cattle around. Never let them take more than 1/3 of the height of the grass. Be in the grass business. If you have surplus grasses and forage, you can bring in light cattle and get paid on how much weight they gain. Or you could lease it out for 2-3 years and help oversee/manage the cattle. Learn about the business and gradually ease into it. Also, the leasee will do some fnce repair. Don't set your goals to raise a commodity where you are a price taker. Find specialty foods, meats, and things people want but can't find. |
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Ask the local Ag agent or ranchers what can you expect out of the land for supporting how many head on the acres. That will help you define the business plan. You may be able to go with a boutique business model and specialize in grass fed, organic or something like that. Check out expanding your acreage by looking to lease adjoining land.
Just a few ideas. Good luck! |
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It's all about saving on costs.
Brewers grain can be a low cost protein source. When preg checking don't throw away the glove, turn it inside out and it'll last twice as long :) eta: and check out Joel Solitan - I think he has a lot of stuff on making a smaller operation profitable. |
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This! If you are a true farmer... Cattle are raised on ranch, not grown on a farm. Quoted:
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As the son of a cotton farmer I can tell you to make sure you plant them hooves down East of the Missouri they are. |
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Just because you have land doesn't mean cattle are a good idea. Look at high dollar, trendy shit like organic turkeys or chinchillas.
Seriously, don't expect wealth. I worked for a man who got rich picking up dead stock from ranchers and feed lots. If you have a cow and 1/10th of it dies, all of it dies. When you have 100 chickens and 1/10th of them die, you still have 90 chickens. |
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Quoted:
I grew up working on a ranch in N Central Texas, beef ranch, and it's a 24/7 365 job. You need hired hands if you ever expect to take a vacation or even a weekend away. Vaccinations, castrations, eyeballs to spot any sickness, predator control,.running the fences and fixing them, feeding, moving them around, truck and trailer to take them to auction, branding.. though I suppose they are just chipped now, mostly. It never ends and you better be all in committed. this man knows. I grew up on a large operation in SE Ok. his words are true. 300 acres is not a large tract of land by any means and not what most would consider a sole money making venture. these are called hobby farms. divide it up into 100 acre plots and make sure you plant premium forage. a lot of cattlemen who run these types of operations have 9-5 jobs in another field or are retired and run cattle as a side venture. |
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First- define take over. Inherit, buy, work and pay owner over time??? My wife and I have a little under 200 acres that we raise cattle, sheep, and poultry on in AL. We both work full time and I travel a lot for work. We make some money but it is a lot of work. 300 acres in that part of the country isn't too bad. Check stocking rates and fertility of the land. Cattle are high right now. This would put you in the Buy high Sell (low or high). If you don't have to borrow money to get it I might consider it. Don't buy cattle. Let someone els do that. Your investment is in making sure the fencing is up to par, seeding and fertilizing winter/summer grazing, water (supply, tanks, automatic waterers, ponds, etc...). If you have a good perimeter fence use portable electric to subdivide pastures in 10-20 acre paddocks and rotate the cattle around. Never let them take more than 1/3 of the height of the grass. Be in the grass business. If you have surplus grasses and forage, you can bring in light cattle and get paid on how much weight they gain. Or you could lease it out for 2-3 years and help oversee/manage the cattle. Learn about the business and gradually ease into it. Also, the leasee will do some fnce repair. Don't set your goals to raise a commodity where you are a price taker. Find specialty foods, meats, and things people want but can't find. This guy has some good points. I'm going to guess that he knows Dave Pratt. |
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this man knows. I grew up on a large operation in SE Ok. his words are true. 300 acres is not a large tract of land by any means and not what most would consider a sole money making venture. these are called hobby farms. divide it up into 100 acre plots and make sure you plant premium forage. a lot of cattlemen who run these types of operations have 9-5 jobs in another field or are retired and run cattle as a side venture. Quoted:
Quoted:
I grew up working on a ranch in N Central Texas, beef ranch, and it's a 24/7 365 job. You need hired hands if you ever expect to take a vacation or even a weekend away. Vaccinations, castrations, eyeballs to spot any sickness, predator control,.running the fences and fixing them, feeding, moving them around, truck and trailer to take them to auction, branding.. though I suppose they are just chipped now, mostly. It never ends and you better be all in committed. this man knows. I grew up on a large operation in SE Ok. his words are true. 300 acres is not a large tract of land by any means and not what most would consider a sole money making venture. these are called hobby farms. divide it up into 100 acre plots and make sure you plant premium forage. a lot of cattlemen who run these types of operations have 9-5 jobs in another field or are retired and run cattle as a side venture. 100 acre plots are too big. With his size they should be less than 10 acres. |
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Where is the farm?
This could range from doable to disaster. You won't put cattle on the entire 300 acres, you'll also be raising hay and maybe silage. My aunt and uncle worked for nearly 50 years milking cows in a grade C barn on less than 200 acres and made themselves millionaires. But they didn't spend much and worked harder and smarter than most people can imagine. This particular farm is in a fertile creek bottom, not a rocky hillside. My FIL was a beef farmer until they sold out 5 or 6 years ago, and did well, but he developed a big operation over decades. The man that bought the farm came from New Mexico and had a hard time adjusting to the number of cattle that can be pastured in Missouri, and was accustomed to wearing out horses and trailers instead of tractors. He bought only one of the tractors at the auction. Both of these farms are in Wright County. I got a chuckle out of the water rights comment above; that is not an issue in Missouri. Most likely you'll use water from a well and ponds. |
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Had some friends give me a birthday card one time that said "We were going to give you another million but we thought you'd just go on ranching anyway."
It takes time, money, more money, and you need to see how many head you can run on it. What sort of cattle ranch; cow/calf, meat, grazing, milk, or maybe high pedigree bloodlines. While you learn why don't you lease it out to a rancher for grazing rights. You won't spend much and your return could be higher short term. |