Posted: 12/19/2008 9:08:30 AM EDT
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Okay, this has probably been asked a million times but...how do install a liner for the insert? What and where to buy items?
See, I recently had a chimney cleaner come in to, well, clean the chimney. When he saw the wood-burner insert and had seen no liner on the roof (where he went first) he RUINED my day! Said I couldn't use the FP without a liner. Also said he'd have to report it to the firechief and if the house burned because it got used the insurance company would not cover it. (I think the guy liked acting like a Nazi Prick due to the smile and wide-eyed gleeful look.) It's not like I'd use it if it's a fire hazard. Anyway, saw something in another post about flexible liner and realized I want to put it, or whatever liner I need in but don't have the first clue as to what I need or how to do it. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks |
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I have personally purchased from http://www.chimneylinerdepot.com/ with excellent results.
I ordered from them over the telephone. 40 foot of stainless with a cap install kit. |
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Quoted:
I have personally purchased from http://www.chimneylinerdepot.com/ with excellent results. I ordered from them over the telephone. 40 foot of stainless with a cap install kit. A few things we've learned: 1) Nazi is actually correct (though mean people suck, so why'd he have to like it so much?) 
2) The liners come in different sizes. Measure the interior dimensions of your chimney, get up on the roof or in the flue and shine a light down in there and make sure it doesn't change part way down the chimney (many do change––there are curves built in and stuff, and sometimes they get smaller toward the top, but some don't. You need to know this.) 3) Make sure your flexible flue liner will fit into your chimney before you purchase it. When we purchased ours, it was not returnable and it was not cheap. This was a long time ago though. 4) This is not a one-person job. 5) Follow the destructions when you install it––and don't skimp on putting the cap on. 6) You may have to get sheet metal and cut it to cover the whole top of your chimney, as the caps don't come in all dimensions from all companies. This is not that difficult a job if you have tin snips and are able to bend the edges of the metal. 7) The outlet for your insert may require some sort of adapter to fit the size of the flue liner. Be sure to check for this when you buy. The exterior dimensions of the flue liner are much larger than the interior dimensions. You have to figure out whether you'll actually get an air "draw" through the liner––it's hard to get a draw if the liner is too small or curved too much as it makes its way up the chimney. 8) Get the largest diameter liner that will fit into your chimney––see reasoning in number 7 about the air draw. A good draw will make your life easier. I'm used to wood stove hookups, not fireplace inserts, and honestly I'm uncertain as to how you're gonna get to the top of the insert to install the liner, but I know nothing about inserts like this, so I guess there's a way. Best to have the liner fit on the OUTSIDE of the smoke exit on the stove/insert, not inside. So the flue liner is the "female" fitting and the exhaust/smoke exit on the burner is the "male" fitting if that makes sense. Sparks can get through really small holes, and stray sparks are less likely with this arrangement. BTW: For the cost of one visit from the chimney sweep, we bought the tools to clean our own chimneys. I climbed up there and followed the guy around and asked a lot of questions, and after that, I bought the tools and clean my own chimneys. |
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I am a CSIA certified sweep.
The dude who told you all that is suspect. It IS unsafe and improper to have the stove installed that way, but the rest would make me go  . The fire chief would say..."hmmmmm". The insurance Co. would cover it if it was there when you moved in.
Now with that said: DIY chimney lining is not the best idea unless you KNOW what you are doing. A few basics: 1.) Determine the size liner you will need. I will GUESS (not promise) that this is an older stove that has been there for a while. I will GUESS that it requires an 8" diameter flue. It may require a larger or smaller flue. In this case, SIZE MATTERS, along with how you use it. 
If it has a round outlet it is easy to determine the size: measure the inner diameter. If it is a rectangle, measure length x width. That is the area. The area of the flue pipe should equal the area of the outlet. An 8" flue has an area of about 50". A 6" flue about 26". Once you have determined the size liner you need, measure the length to the top of the chimney. You will need to insulate the liner for proper function. Insulation helps your fire burn better by providing a stonger draft and also maintains higher flue gas temperatures reducing creosote deposits. I use a foil-faced ceramic wool blanket to wrap the pipe. The bottom line, however, is that you really should have a qualified sweep inspect the system and install the liner. It is to critical an area to risk a DIY mistake. A few other questions: Did the sweep pull the insert out when he swept your chimney? How old is the unit? Some units are installed with a partial liner that while technically arre OK make proper cleaning a pain. I still recommend the proper lining of this units all the way to the top. Where in Ohio are you? I am always down for helping a fellow arfcommer in range.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
I have personally purchased from http://www.chimneylinerdepot.com/ with excellent results. I ordered from them over the telephone. 40 foot of stainless with a cap install kit. A few things we've learned: 1) Nazi is actually correct (though mean people suck, so why'd he have to like it so much?) 
2) The liners come in different sizes. Measure the interior dimensions of your chimney, get up on the roof or in the flue and shine a light down in there and make sure it doesn't change part way down the chimney (many do change––there are curves built in and stuff, and sometimes they get smaller toward the top, but some don't. You need to know this.) 3) Make sure your flexible flue liner will fit into your chimney before you purchase it. When we purchased ours, it was not returnable and it was not cheap. This was a long time ago though. 4) This is not a one-person job. yup 5) Follow the destructions when you install it––and don't skimp on putting the cap on. 6) You may have to get sheet metal and cut it to cover the whole top of your chimney, as the caps don't come in all dimensions from all companies. This is not that difficult a job if you have tin snips and are able to bend the edges of the metal. 7) The outlet for your insert may require some sort of adapter to fit the size of the flue liner. Be sure to check for this when you buy. The exterior dimensions of the flue liner are much larger than the interior dimensions. You have to figure out whether you'll actually get an air "draw" through the liner––it's hard to get a draw if the liner is too small or curved too much as it makes its way up the chimney. 8) Get the largest diameter liner that will fit into your chimney––see reasoning in number 7 about the air draw. A good draw will make your life easier. see my post. Use the proper size for the appliance. It does matter. I'm used to wood stove hookups, not fireplace inserts, and honestly I'm uncertain as to how you're gonna get to the top of the insert to install the liner, but I know nothing about inserts like this, so I guess there's a way. Best to have the liner fit on the OUTSIDE of the smoke exit on the stove/insert, not inside. So the flue liner is the "female" fitting and the exhaust/smoke exit on the burner is the "male" fitting if that makes sense. Sparks can get through really small holes, and stray sparks are less likely with this arrangement. The liner should use an adapter to fit INSIDE the outlet. This is so that any condensation (creosote) in the flue does not drip outside the flue. The purpose of a liner is to contain the products of combustion and vent them to the outside. Sparks will not come out, by nature of the principals of draft a chimney is under negative pressure and any "gaps" (which should be negligible anyway) will be "sucking" air. BTW: For the cost of one visit from the chimney sweep, we bought the tools to clean our own chimneys. I climbed up there and followed the guy around and asked a lot of questions, and after that, I bought the tools and clean my own chimneys. Sorry to nitpick. |
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WOW! Thanks for all the information, everyone!
BTW, Bustin Caps, the house is about 41 years old. Not sure of the age of insert. Years ago I used to clean my own chimney and even installed a rigid stainless pipe (insulated with vermiculite, I think it was) in a very old house but I got paralyzed 11 years ago so I won't be doing this kind of work anymore. I was kind-of-going  when he mentioned the firemashall until the second guy I called said the same thing...that if he saw it he'd have to report it. I thought it may be a local statute or something.
Guess I need to check the local rules for my community. Will keep checking back in. Thanks again to everyone for their help. Rafter |
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Where in Ohio are you? I am always down for helping a fellow arfcommer in range.  Learning that you are disabled I am also in for helping out if you are within a hour of Columbus. I have also installed a few liners though they were for furnaces and not stoves, but under Caps supervision I am sure I could be of assistance. Let me know. |
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Quoted:
WOW! Thanks for all the information, everyone! BTW, Bustin Caps, the house is about 41 years old. Not sure of the age of insert. Years ago I used to clean my own chimney and even installed a rigid stainless pipe (insulated with vermiculite, I think it was) in a very old house but I got paralyzed 11 years ago so I won't be doing this kind of work anymore. I was kind-of-going when he mentioned the firemashall until the second guy I called said the same thing...that if he saw it he'd have to report it. I thought it may be a local statute or something.
Guess I need to check the local rules for my community. Will keep checking back in. Thanks again to everyone for their help. Rafter It is interesting about the reoprting it issue. I would definately clarify that issue before proceeding. You may have statutes requiring other things. Local city ordinances can be a pain and are a primary reason I try to stick to the township areas around me. ZW, I am sure you would be a great help. I am in Cleveland, but would have no problem visting family in Columbus if necessary. |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I have personally purchased from http://www.chimneylinerdepot.com/ with excellent results. I ordered from them over the telephone. 40 foot of stainless with a cap install kit. A few things we've learned: 1) Nazi is actually correct (though mean people suck, so why'd he have to like it so much?)
2) The liners come in different sizes. Measure the interior dimensions of your chimney, get up on the roof or in the flue and shine a light down in there and make sure it doesn't change part way down the chimney (many do change––there are curves built in and stuff, and sometimes they get smaller toward the top, but some don't. You need to know this.) 3) Make sure your flexible flue liner will fit into your chimney before you purchase it. When we purchased ours, it was not returnable and it was not cheap. This was a long time ago though. 4) This is not a one-person job. yup 5) Follow the destructions when you install it––and don't skimp on putting the cap on. 6) You may have to get sheet metal and cut it to cover the whole top of your chimney, as the caps don't come in all dimensions from all companies. This is not that difficult a job if you have tin snips and are able to bend the edges of the metal. 7) The outlet for your insert may require some sort of adapter to fit the size of the flue liner. Be sure to check for this when you buy. The exterior dimensions of the flue liner are much larger than the interior dimensions. You have to figure out whether you'll actually get an air "draw" through the liner––it's hard to get a draw if the liner is too small or curved too much as it makes its way up the chimney. 8) Get the largest diameter liner that will fit into your chimney––see reasoning in number 7 about the air draw. A good draw will make your life easier. see my post. Use the proper size for the appliance. It does matter. I'm used to wood stove hookups, not fireplace inserts, and honestly I'm uncertain as to how you're gonna get to the top of the insert to install the liner, but I know nothing about inserts like this, so I guess there's a way. Best to have the liner fit on the OUTSIDE of the smoke exit on the stove/insert, not inside. So the flue liner is the "female" fitting and the exhaust/smoke exit on the burner is the "male" fitting if that makes sense. Sparks can get through really small holes, and stray sparks are less likely with this arrangement. The liner should use an adapter to fit INSIDE the outlet. This is so that any condensation (creosote) in the flue does not drip outside the flue. The purpose of a liner is to contain the products of combustion and vent them to the outside. Sparks will not come out, by nature of the principals of draft a chimney is under negative pressure and any "gaps" (which should be negligible anyway) will be "sucking" air. BTW: For the cost of one visit from the chimney sweep, we bought the tools to clean our own chimneys. I climbed up there and followed the guy around and asked a lot of questions, and after that, I bought the tools and clean my own chimneys. Sorry to nitpick. Uhmmmm. well.....I know you're the expert, but we did have one of these––installed by a certified sweep, btw, and it fit on the inside, and sparks came out. LOTS of sparks at times, when the stove was burning hot at the beginning of a burn cycle. We had to take it apart, buy an adapter, and make it fit on the outside so that the sparks no longer came out. The thing, I believe, is that not all stoves are built to the same exacting standards, and unless you can have a custom outlet piece made to adapt to your stove, if it doesn't fit EXACTLY PERFECTLY, sparks will come out. I would rather have the condensation problem than my house burn down from errant sparks. I guess I consider it the lesser of two evils, and YMMV. And as I said, I was dealing with a wood stove, not an insert, so there was no issue with condensation dripping on my appliance. The appliance was sitting in the living room. Don't mean to be disagreeable, but our experience was different from the theory. |
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When we do an install with an oil furnace we usually put in a chimney liner. It is subcontracted out and costs 700-800 dollars. These guys are professionals and have all the stuff to do it. This is about what ours cost when we had one put in too. That was about fifteen years ago though. It looks like, from grazing over the links listed, that if you insulate properly, the products themselves would cost about that now, not counting installation.
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Guys, Thanks for all the nice responses. Sorry for not responding sooner.
It will have to be after the first of the year for me to do anything and by then the weather will have to be a determining factor. I WON'T risk anyone being on a roof in slippery weather! Will research rules...would rather hire a fellow Arfcommer if possible. Thanks again for your responses. Will be in touch more often. Gary |