Posted: 6/17/2006 5:37:44 AM EDT
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http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2006-06-14-death-van_x.htm I searched for: china, chinese,mobile and execution so if it's a dupe oh well  
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My favorite part of the story....and yes, I have a dark sense of humor..... "Qiu has attended executions by firing squad where the kneeling prisoner is shot in the back of the head. The guards "ask the prisoner to open his mouth, so the bullet can pass out of the mouth and leave the face intact," he says." |
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Are there any fans of Larry Niven out there? Any such fans will be getting the feeling like they've read something like this before. Organ banks. Organleggers. The death penalty being assigned more frequently and to lesser crimes so the demand for organs can be satisfied. Science fiction? I call it "science prediction".  CJ |
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I wonder if they will do away with the parades that occur on the way to the execution grounds. I have seen condemned men forced to stand in large truckbeds while the trucks are driven to a designated spot, usually next to a main road, where they are shot. Family members are sent a bill for the bullet. |
Well, isn't that thoughtful of them. 
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I was thinking the same thing when I read the article. Now if only I could pick up a cheap used Bussard Ram Jet ... 
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from:www.guardian.co.uk/china/story/0,7369,1568622,00.html?gusrc=rss The beauty products from the skin of executed Chinese prisoners · Cosmetics firm targets UK market · Lack of regulation puts users at risk Ian Cobain and Adam Luck Tuesday September 13, 2005 The Guardian A Chinese cosmetics company is using skin harvested from the corpses of executed convicts to develop beauty products for sale in Europe, an investigation by the Guardian has discovered. Agents for the firm have told would-be customers it is developing collagen for lip and wrinkle treatments from skin taken from prisoners after they have been shot. The agents say some of the company's products have been exported to the UK, and that the use of skin from condemned convicts is "traditional" and nothing to "make such a big fuss about". With European regulations to control cosmetic treatments such as collagen not expected for several years, doctors and politicians say the discovery highlights the dangers faced by the increasing number of Britons seeking to improve their looks. Apart from the ethical concerns, there is also the potential risk of infection. MPs on the Commons select health committee are to examine the regulatory system and may launch an investigation and question ministers about the need for immediate new controls. "I am sure that the committee will want to look at this," said Kevin Barron, its Labour chairman. "This is something everyone in society will be very concerned about." Plastic surgeons are also concerned about the delay in introducing regulations to control the cosmetic treatments industry. Norman Waterhouse, a former president of the British Association of Aesthetic Plastic Surgeons, said: "I am surprised that we are taking the lead from the European commission, because this is bound to delay action on this important area which is increasingly a matter for concern. It seems like a bit of a cop out to me." It is unclear whether any of the "aesthetic fillers" such as collagen available in the UK or on the internet are supplied by the company, which cannot be identified for legal reasons. It is also unclear whether collagen made from prisoners' skin is in the research stage or is in production. However, the Guardian has learned that the company has exported collagen products to the UK in the past. An agent told customers it had also exported to the US and European countries, and that it was trying to develop fillers using tissue from aborted foetuses. Traditional When formally approached by the Guardian, the agent denied the company was using skin harvested from executed prisoners. However, he had already admitted it was doing precisely this during a number of conversations with a researcher posing as a Hong Kong businessman. The Press Complaints Commission's code of practice permits subterfuge if there is no other means of investigating a matter of public interest. The agent told the researcher: "A lot of the research is still carried out in the traditional manner using skin from the executed prisoner and aborted foetus." This material, he said, was being bought from "bio tech" companies based in the northern province of Heilongjiang, and was being developed elsewhere in China. He suggested that the use of skin and other tissues harvested from executed prisoners was not uncommon. "In China it is considered very normal and I was very shocked that western countries can make such a big fuss about this," he said. Speaking from his office in northern China, he added: "The government has put some pressure on all the medical facilities to keep this type of work in low profile." The agent said his company exported to the west via Hong Kong."We are still in the early days of selling these products, and clients from abroad are quite surprised that China can manufacture the same human collagen for less than 5% of what it costs in the west." Skin from prisoners used to be even less expensive, he said. "Nowadays there is a certain fee that has to be paid to the court." The agent's admission comes after an inquiry into the cosmetic surgery industry in Britain, commissioned by the Department of Health, pointed to the need for new regulations controlling collagen treatments. Sir Liam Donaldson, the chief medical officer, has highlighted the inquiry's concerns about the use of cadavers for cosmetic treatments. "Cosmetic procedures are a rapidly growing area of private health care," he said. "We must ensure we properly protect patients' safety by improving the training and regulation." The DoH has agreed to the inquiry's recommendations, but is waiting for the European commission to draw up proposals for laws governing cosmetic products. It could be several years before this legislation takes force. Meanwhile, cosmetic treatments, including those with with aesthetic fillers, are growing rapidly in popularity, with around 150,000 injections or implants administered each year in the UK. Lip enhancement treatments are one of the most popular, costing an average of £170. Some fillers are made from cattle or pig tissue, and others from humans. The DoH believes that there may be a risk of transmission of blood-borne viruses and even vCJD from collagen containing human tissue. Although there is as yet no evidence that this has happened, the inquiry found that some collagen injections had triggered inflammatory reactions causing permanent discomfort, scarring and disfigurement. In their report, the inquiry team said that if there was a risk, "action should be taken to protect patient safety through regulation". While new regulations are to be drawn up, the department is currently powerless to regulate most human-tissue fillers intended for injection or implant, as they occupy a legal grey area. Most products are not governed by regulations controlling medical products, as they are not classified as medicines. They also escape cosmetics regulations, which only apply to substances used on the surface of the skin and not those injected beneath it. The Healthcare Commission is planning new regulations for cosmetic surgery clinics next year, but these will not control the substances used by plastic surgeons. Hand transplants A number of plastic surgeons have told the Guardian that they have been hearing rumours about the use of tissue harvested from executed prisoners for several years. Peter Butler, a consultant plastic surgeon and government adviser, said there had been rumours that Chinese surgeons had performed hand transplants using hands from executed prisoners. One transplant centre was believed to be adjacent to an execution ground. "I can see the utility of it, as they have access and no ethical objection," he said. "The main concern would be infective risk." Andrew Lee of the University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine, who has visited China to examine transplant techniques, said he had heard similar rumours. Manufacturers of aesthetic fillers said they had seen Chinese collagen products on sale at trade fairs, but had not seen any labelled Chinese-made in the UK. Dan Cohen, whose US-based company, Inamed, produces collagen products, said: "We have come across Chinese products in the market place. But most products from China are being sold 'off-label' or are being imported illegally." In China, authorities deny that prisoners' body parts are harvested without their consent. However, there is some evidence to suggest it may be happening. In June 2001, Wang Guoqi, a Chinese former military physician, told US congressmen he had worked at execution grounds helping surgeons to harvest the organs of more than 100 executed prisoners, without prior consent. The surgeons used converted vans parked near the execution grounds to begin dissecting the bodies, he told the house international relations committee's human rights panel. Skin was said to be highly valued for the treatment of burn victims, and Dr Wang said that in 1995 he skinned a shot convict's body while the man's heart was still beating. Dr Wang, who was seeking asylum in the US, also alleged that corneas and other body tissue were removed for transplant, and said his hospital, the Tianjin paramilitary police general brigade hospital, sold body parts for profit. Human rights activists in China have repeatedly claimed that organs have been harvested from the corpses of executed prisoners and sold to surgeons offering transplants to fee-paying foreigners. Dr Wang's allegations infuriated the Chinese authorities, and in a rare move officials publicly denounced him as a liar. The government said organs were transplanted from executed prisoners only if they and their family gave consent. Although the exact number of people facing the death penalty in China is an official secret, Amnesty International believes around 3,400 were executed last year, with a further 6,000 on death row. What is it? Collagen is a major structural protein found in abundance in skin, bones, tendons and other connective tissue. Matted sheets of collagen give skin its toughness and by winding into molecular "cables", it adds strength to tendons. What is it used for? Collagen injections are used in cosmetic surgery to plump up lips and flatten out wrinkles. After botox, collagen injections are the second-most popular cosmetic operations in Britain. Collagen does not have a permanent effect and several injections are often needed. What else is it good for? Collagen was being put to good use as far back as the stone age. Neolithic cave dwellers around the Dead Sea are believed to have used it as a primitive form of glue some 8,000 years ago. More recently, researchers have developed a form that can be poured or injected into wounds to seal them. Where does it come from? A number of sources. Some companies extract it from cow skin and treat it to minimise the risk of allergic reactions or infection. Others collect it from human donors or extract cells from the patient before growing the necessary amount in a laboratory. Is it safe? Collagen can cause allergic reactions if it has not been treated correctly, and there is a theoretical risk of disease being passed on. A small amount of collagen is often injected into the skin a few weeks before treatment to test for possible allergic reactions. Earlier this year, Sir Liam Donaldson warned that collagen injections could spread conditions such as hepatitis and variant CJD, the human form of mad cow disease. |
"You see this hand mutherfucker??? It's already killed three people... don't piss it off! |
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On one hand, I think it's great that they're nitpicking the costs of capital punishment down to $125 transportation fee, but on the other hand, it sounds like it might be getting carried out too quickly. I have little faith in the Chinese legal system, but regardless... if convicted, they might as well execute them quickly and cheaply. On the other hand... isn't that how they started the German "T4 project"? Where they killed retarded people, then old people and finally Jewish people by driving up in a mobile execution gas van? |
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They have been using these for years. www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/03/12/1047431092598.html If "the media" was writing about them in 2003, you can be sure the Chinese have been using them for alot longer than that. edit: the caption of the picture under theage.com.au article indicates that it is from 2001. I would be surprised if the chinese have been doing this for 10-15 years or more now. |
I can't find my copy or remember the title, but I have one of his collections of short stories about a man trying to escape from jail before being found guilty and organlegged. He managed to escape but couldn't go anywhere but to the next building which had the machinery that would disassemble him for spare parts. Figuring if they were going to kill him, he might as well do something worth getting killed over and smashed the machinery. He got caught and placed back in jail and taken to court where he was sentenced to the organ bank. His crime? Three miles over the speed limit. |
Well, you know, they don't want to damage the corneas or other valuable body parts. |
Yep, Niven was onto something there! I hear they are making a film version of Ringworld. |
LOL that's right out of the EVIL DEAD! GET A CHAINSAW!! |
Yes, but I can't remember the name of the book you are refering to.  I remember it was a pretty good read. |
Organlegging and organ banks are mentioned repeatedly in the Ringworld quadrilogy and the Man-Kzin Wars series. The only time I remember it really being mentioned in explicit detail is in the short story I mentioned, and that was in a collection of his not related to the Known Space series. Man of Steel, Woman of Kleenex, possibly? Heck, just for the title essay of that book, Larry Niven deserves the title of "true genius". Read Niven's books. They're some of the best out there. Lucifer's Hammer- survivalist fiction in the 70's! Legacy of Heorot, Beowulf's Children- survival on an alien world Man-Kzin Wars I-XI- Excellent series by some a mixture of good authors; the short story The Colonel's Tiger alone is worth buying for the whole Brave New World/1984 aspect. Ringworld, The Ringworld Engineers, The Ringworld Throne, Ringworld's Children- quadrilogy about the single most awesome engineering achievement ever conceived, short of the Death Star |
WOW!!! Be careful, behindenemylines! Aren't you taking a risk just posting here? |
Book I of the Man-Kzin wars shows our future if we continue on this path. Humans taught and bred to be sheep. Required visits to "autodocs" to check your body chemistry to make sure you're not agressive and required medications to control your agression. Thinking about weapons and military uses for technology a crime. A World police force controling every aspect of your lives. It even runs the black market were weapons training and martial arts are taught so they can secertly have recuits to restock the police force with. In later books you learn about complete gun control where even fake and non-operational guns are banned. And having children requires a license and is limited to 1 unless you can "win" a baby lottery Orwell was good, but Niven is a master. |
My thought exactly. 
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I've been a few places and China was the scariest of them. They're not at all like Westerners. It finally hit me about how/why we waste clean water in Canada (and the US too I guess). People leave the tap on while brushing, take multiple showers a day, water lawns. It's simple supply and demand I think. We have so much it's not a problem. Well in China they're like that with life. |
| You folks who think this is a good idea have to keep in mind that many capitol crimes in China are political in nature. So being a journalist, a bad poet, etc., can land you in the pokey with your tissue type in the database waiting for a wealthy foriegner who needs a new kidney, heart or liver. Half the things people propose on this website are crimes in China and could be punished accordingly. |
Interviewed right before a masked communist plunged the needle into his arm, six-fingered criminal Xgung Gxghzuv stated, "Kang Zhongwen's wonder of modern technology is equipped with all the modern conveniences! Why, I didn't even have to exert myself by climbing into the back of it, thus allowing me to lie here in comfort and relaxation! The People's Execution Van is tops!" 
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Yup. Which is why we have to fight to protect our consititutional rights including the 2nd amendment. I've often wondered what would have happened if everyone across China who secretly sympathized with the Tinnanmien Square protestors had a bolt action rifle and twenty rounds of ammunition. We'll never know. |
