[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Close our borders (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 5/25/2004 8:43:32 PM EDT
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"U.S. officials have obtained new intelligence deemed highly credible indicating al-Qaida or other terrorists are in the United States and preparing to launch a major attack this summer" www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0525terror-threat25-ON.html The answer to this is simple, deport everyone immediately. No more aliens... if you are not a citizen of the United States of America, then you can get out. We need to end the process of naturalization as well. Once the deportation process is complete, INS can be officially disbanded. Anyone found to be in the US illegally, or trying to cross the border, should be executed. We can recall all of our armed forces from Afghanistan, Iraq, and all other corners of the globe, and post them at the borders instead. Since everyone in the world hates us so much, then we don't need to be out there, and they don't need to come here, at anytime, for any reason, ever. Do you find this to be too harsh a position? |
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Yes. There are foreign nationals who are currently working on citizenship. A good friend of mine married one a few months ago (really nice girl, too). CIS (Citizenship and Immigration Services - new name for INS) takes their time processing citizenship for aliens who marry U.S. Citizens. The most she has right now is "permanent resident" status, and even that's still in process - so much that they are postponing a trip to her native country until her paperwork is completed. (She could have trouble getting back in if she leaves the U.S.) |
Oh do you mean that evil, hate filled belief that their race was the only correct one, hmmmmm let me see who's beliefs mirror that ! Your brush stroke is a little broad. We are the victims here, looking to protect our families & loved one's. I don't see much difference between the Nazi & the people that assualt us today. And hey, nobody cried foul when they were hunting the Nazi, they are all evil bastards. Ahhhrrrraaaahhhh |
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Who's going to vote Democratic if not the illegal aliens? The safety of our country has become a political issue. Don't think for a minute that the liberals wouldn't love to have a major attack this summer to blame on the President. Does anyone disagree with that statement? Liberals would have Americans dead, would have us fail in Afghanistan or Iraq, for political gain. Never before has a political party fallen to such levels. |
Yes, but sad as it is we are told that we must even tolerate the hate filled speach of the nazi or its neo facist form. Just as we are told we must tollerate the hate filled rehtoric of the current foe. Our fathers and grand fathers did not tollerate the hate of the nazi, they went to its source and killed it. When it presented itself on these shores, they shunned it and called it what it was. They locked up its fifth column and they destroyed its funding as they sought to drive it from our shores. They were successful, lets only hope that we are able to prove worthy of that greatest generation and don't fail our children for the sake of political correctness. |
"Punky" is looking forward to going shooting (haven't been able to get all of our schedules to line up). Her words to me, as her husband and I were preparing to leave: "You make sure he stays safe. And...next time, I want to go." Sweet girl. But if I go shooting without her husband, she'll be very disappointed. This puts her WAY above the DU and mothering.com folks. But if I were King, 1. 9/11 All airline traffic grounded. 2. 9/13 Public notification that all non-U.S. citizens from <list of countries known to sponsor terrorism - pretty much the entire Muslim world> - legal or not - must report to an airport within 24 hours for IMMEDIATE deportation. Students, 3. 9/14 Airlines only fly deportation flights. The planes return empty. 4. 9/15 Public notification that all aliens from the above countries who remain in the U.S. must turn themselves in to local law enforcement. Any alien found outside law enforcement custody will be shot on sight. Anyone who harbors such an alien will be charged with capital treason. If there's another attack, I'll bet this is considered. |
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There is so much wrong with this "lock-em down" response to terrorist attacks that it's hard to know where to begin. While it is understandable as an emotional reaction to a painful event, it makes little sense as a valid solution in the real world. From a law enforcement perspective, you can't punish *the many* in hopes of preventing *the few* from perpetrating acts of violence. Not only is it wrong, it's just not effective unless you're willing to really, really tighten those screws down. Look at how upset we all get with the TSA and the minor inconveniences we suffer while travelling now. From a civil liberties persective, you can't deny the many the rights they deserve in order to prevent a few from abusing thsoe rights (to travel, to associate, free speech). From a human perspective, are you *really* all right treating other people like that? You'd abdicate the "Golden Rule" as your moral compass, as a way of life because of the actions of a very few who hate us? That's irrational, and not really any different from the crazy logic terrorists use to jsutify their attacks in the first place. How are we any different, then? The cost of living in a free society is risk. One antitdote to risk is effective and professional local and national law enforcement. Are you willing to give them the tools (and the permission to use them) to do their job? All this absolute authority and complete control of all movement and activity sounds like fascism to me. |
DScott, from a purely logistical perspective you are probably right, however, our government is doing very little to preserve our sovereignty in terms of illegal immigration. As to whether it's "right" or "wrong," that is a value judgment & we will have to agree to disagree. Tightening the screws, in terms of this thread only refers to illegals, who by definition SHOULD have the screws tightened on them.
Again, you are ascribing the rights of United States citizens to illegals. Your argument doesn't hold water.
Again you are making value judgments. In a perfect world, where everything was "roses & love songs," I might agree with you. The simple fact is that we are fighting people who want to destroy us in the case of Al Queda, & fighting people who want to steal our jobs & way of life in the case of the illegals from Mexico.
As I said above "Tightening the screws, in terms of this thread only refers to illegals, who by definition SHOULD have the screws tightened on them." I think that a great majority of Americans would be glad to stop illegal immigration.
It might sound like fascism, but it's merely a matter of protecting our interests from the encroachments that I mentioned. It's not a matter of fascism against any U.S. citizens. Neither is it necessarily fascism in the traditional sense to deport illegals & wage war against those who would destroy then United States. |
The crack down would be on people in this country ILLEGALLY. Since I am a citizen, it would not affect me, unless I decided to help with the round up and deportation. |
| Bush should make an announcement. Every attack on any American anywhere in the world will result in a Mooslim shrine being nuked. Start with Mecca and go from there. After that, state we will send a nuke at a city, military base, etc. of our choice. These will continue until attacks stop. Next, seal the borders and send all non-citizens home immediately, including the U.N. George Washington warned us about getting involved overseas. We are at war with ignorance and hate. |
I wouldn't so much call it harsh, as I would call it stupid 
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I agree in part. People here legaly should be alowd to stay. My best friend for instance in an American citizen but both of his parents are not. They have green cards and have lived here for about 25 years. You would advocate deporting my best friends parents just because they are not citizens. Then there is the massive econonomic break down that would result from such action. when we can't import anything and buisness men can't get in to conduct buisness very bad things happen. We would be strangeling our selves. I think we should srengthen border patrols and give them the right to shoot anyone atempting to get into our country ileagaly. The leagal redident aliens and anyone atempting to immagrate legally should be monitered more closly. anyone displaying any terrorist leanings should be deported. |
Waaah. Think of the US as one of those lifeboats on the Titanic. If we don't row away from the masses then our lifeboat will be lost. Some good people need to drown, but if we don't do it then we will lose the lifeboat all together. Got it? I personally think that the US is fucked and cannot recover from her current condition. She is riding too low in the water. We had a massive attack on our own soil, AND we have a Republican administration in office, and still the government won't close the borders! We're fucked. |
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Dude the Paul Revere Society has been calling for this for a LONG TIME now. YOUR GOVERNMENT HAS FAILED YOU. Post 9/11 probably 1.5 Million Illegals have entered this country. It's going to take another SERIOUS attack on US soil and then just maybe the Feds will wake up. Forget about diseases being spread that's already happened. In a single case one Mexican Illegal infected /exposed over 60 people to Tuberculosis. Until we suffer another MAJOR CATASTROPHE Bush/Ridge/shcroft et al will do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING OF THE SORT ( mass deportations closing borders) 
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Do you all imagine that illegals and terrorists walk around with signs on their foreheads or something? How are we supposed to find them?  Who is going to pay for this increased level of security and law enforcement? Someone has to be hired and trained to investigate. Others have to supervise and administer those investigators. Others have to set policy for those supervisors, administrators and investigators. They all need offices and computers and phones and guns and cars and clerical support, etc., etc., etc. They need intel, which has to be analyzed, reviewed by the appropriate people, and disseminated in and across many different agencies. Just these few things alone cost ALOT of money, time, and require extensive (expensive) training. There's a lot more involved, of course. As an example, look at the clusterfuck that is the TSA, for instance, and then tell me this is an easy task. Do you think they're effective? What have they accomplished? The budget for the TSA is $5.3 BILLION for 2005. How many TSA's would it take to ensure our safety? Finally, don't you think that if there is a greater law enforcement presence, there will be a greater the intrusion into EVERYONE'S lives. Is that OK? The TSA, for instance, investigates everybody that crosses their path, not just the dark and swarthy ones. - Is it OK if they compile a database on everything everybody does? - Would you mind sharing your financial/job/spending habits and info with them, if it helped locate terrorists? - Mind if they listen to your telephone conversations, moniter your computer activities, review your tax returns without your permission? Be careful what you ask for, you just might get it. Personally, I am willing to live with a greater risk of terrorism to maintain the freedoms we have. A strong and swift response should follow any attack. The prepetrators and their handlers should be held accountable and punished severely. Otherwise prepare to hear, "Your papers, please!" |
Yep, there's too much common sense for a political here 
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DScott regarding your reply If the Fed Gov't was doing it's job in the first we wouldn't have all these Illegal Problems INS the Border Patrol have already been in place Illegals are not hard to find they're everywhere I get em in my jail all the time Just think 20 million Illegals not paying taxes and using the public sevices Welfare /WIC/ Free HealthCare/Your Schools Your paying for it We dont need another Agency First the 20 Million Hispanos should have been stopped cold at the Border There are plenty of steps the Gov't could have taken after 9/11 but didn't |
Easy, racial profiling. Where is your ID? Don't have one? Off to jail with you... when you can prove your citizenship then you can be released. The government wouldn't have to be any more intrusive, you are already required by law to identify yourself to LEOs, have a valid ID, register your car, etc. If you can't prove your citizenship... GOODBYE. |
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Deport the Illegals. And more power to ya. However if you deport all non-citizens our econimy would go down the tubes. If we didn't alow legals we would be able to do any international business. If we don't alow other countrys citizens into the country they would stop trading with us. We would have to become completely self suficent. will that might be a good thing it would take years to acomplish and make the great depresion look like a picnic. |
Aha, there we go, "where are your papers citizen?". Tell me, right now, what do you have in your possession that proves your US Citizenship? No, didn't think so.OFf to jail with you. You see the guy who got fingerprinted by a machine a while back and then spent 43 days in jaoil proving that he was not a convicted felon that the computers had mistaken him for? He got the shit kicked out of him in jail, lost his business the lot. benson-vs-identix.com/htmlfiles/complainttwo.html I though you guys didn't like registration? Of guns, people, or anything. We're this close to bringing National ID cards in the UK, the suggestsions so far have been to fingerprint and retina scan every person in the country. I'm not a criminal WTF should I be fingerprinted? I'll be covered in superglue from the previous nights DIY when the cops come and drag me into the scanning room. And possibly have gotten into a fist fight resulting in damage to my eyes, whatever it takes to arse the process up. Find the perpetrators, punish them visibly and thoroughly. Heads on spikes as a warning not to fuck with Us, whatever it takes. Leave the innocent alone. You guys do sound suspiciosly like you are advocating turning America into Nazi Germany, and we know what our Grandfathers thought of that. /Phil |
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We're talking about national sovereignty and national security. In the UK you should be able to relate ti immigration problems. The key word in "illegal immigrants" is ILLEGAL. In violation of the law. If they don't have a visa, green card, or work permit, boot them. |
Works for me! |
DScott, the answer is so simple & so obvious that it is staring you in the face. It's called "profiling." The simple fact is that a great majority of the illegals & terrorists are olive skinned with dark hair & they speak poor American English, that is the terrorists often speak heavily accented King's English. The only thing keeping us from really addressing the problem is the artificial barrier of political correctness that says that profiling is wrong, yet another value judgment. You once again bring up the logistical issues of training, equipping, etc. the law enforcement community, but I submit that all but the most busy people in the law enforcement community COULD make time every day to address the problem. Hell, I could walk about 10 minutes west of my office & show you half a dozen illegals working construction every day. Do you think that the local police haven't seen them? I've heard of instances of local police officers catching illegals, calling INS or whatever they are called now, & the INS has said, "So what do you want us to do with them?" It sure looks like bureaucracy at work doesn't it? |
for some sad reason, i don't think so. |
how much money will we save from terrorist attacks that are prevented, and infrastructure not currently used by illegals?
they already review my tax returns without my permission. what world do you live in? i don't advocate going crazy on searching for illegals. but it would be so easy to pick up the majority of them, it wouldn't even be funny. from now on- any time any of them get involved with the po-po for illegal activities- deport them. anytime they apply for government benefits- deport them. install hefty penalties on businesses that employ them. that should get most of them. have public schools and colleges check identity- no school visa, or expired- deportation. |
Exactly - this is what people don't get. The IDEA is easy, the IMPLEMENTATION is almost impossible, and does involve some kind of a national ID card, where the police can just stop you for no reason and DEMAND you identify yourself - which currently violates the Constitution, so any of these solutions would probably have to involved a Constitutional amendment. Are going to happy being legally required to present a government ID to any government official that demands it - and will you be happy to go pick you wife or kids up in jail if they happened to forget thier government ID at home that day? Does the national ID card have to list religion? Because Walker-Lindt sure didn't look like a foreigner, Joee Padilla didn't look like a foreigner - and they are both U.S. citizens. So any of these "throw out all the damn foreinger" solutions essentially throw out the baby with the bath-water, and STILL don't solve the problem. Is that okay, having to idenity YOUR religion to any policeman or government official that demands to know? Even if wee know who all those sneaky muslims are, what do we do with them? They're american citizens, right? Do we put them all in campus or under surveillance, just in case one of them is anotehr Lindt or Padilla? Speaking of throwing out the baby with the bath-water, is the irony of gun-laws lost on everyone who is saying "throw out all the foreigners"? Whining liberals want to ban all guns because a few people with guns do bad things. Some of you guys want to ban all foreigners because a few foreigners do bad things. Is that really the best solution you can come up with? (quite apart from the disastous effects it woudl have on the U.S. economy). Obviously, ALL illegal aliens should be deported or thrown in jail (or shot to the moon out of a giant cannon or something), and maybe people that have been caught twice should be branded or tatooed or something. Obviously, the borders should be properly secured - even though the feasibility of that on the cancadian side is probably going to be highly complicated. But yeah - all known illegals should be immediately flung out, tons of money should go into FINDING more current illegal residents, and the border with Mexico should be heavily fortified and guarded. All of these things are easy to do - all it requires it the will- and (without meaning to bash Bush) I have to say that it REALLY pisses me off that NOTHING significant really seems to have been done about the Mexican border since 9/11 - in fact the only thing I can think of is Bush ENCOURAGING illegal aliens with is "amnesty - but don't call it amnesty" plan 
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Your logic: if all the terrorists were muslims, then all muslims are terrorists. Therefore, locking up or deporting all muslims will prevent terrorism? Makes sense. By this logic, since little Timmy McVeigh and all of the white supremacists perpetrators of domestic terrorism are Christians, we should deport and imprison all Christians. Aren't all Christians violent white supremacists? An ideology is enough for jail time in America now? Sounds like you guys already have the jobs with the Thought Police (tm) sown up. Focus on actions, not ideas, and you might start making sense here. |
You are entirely incorrect. While the primary --by a long sight-- terrorist threat against America is from Muslims, nowhere did I say that all Muslims are terrorists. You made that up yourself. You're lying to look intelligent or to refute the irrefutable, whichever. |
You actually haven't said *anything* yet. Asked a question, made a few enigmatic comments, but not said what you think the problem is and what to do about it. What, oh wise one, is "the irrefutable"? |
First, I am LDS. I know a little about religious persecution. I never said that all muslims are terrorists. However, I have been doing a lot of research on the subject. From what I can tell, all "true" muslims will eventually be required to take part in the jihad at the hands of their bretheren. You may have heard of "jack-mormons". They are people who may have been baptized into the LDS Church but are non-practicing, or only participate do a point. In the muslim world, the majority that I have studied believe in jihad and conflict as the way to deal with the rest of the world. According to what appears to be the majority of islam, those who are not muslim will submit to muslim government, they will convert to islam, or they will die. "Smite them upon their necks" is the official quote from the koran. To what appears to be a majority of the muslim world, the muslims who say they don't believe in jihad or in violence in the progression of islam are considered to be essentially "jack-muslims" and are in the minority. First, they will deal with the non-muslims, then they will deal with the jack-muslims. It is going to be a "join us and do it our way or die as an infidel" kind of thing. To them it IS a war based on religious ideaology. Ask any muslim terrorist why they are involved in their cause. As for focusing on actions and not ideas, that is always a good idea. But in this case, the ideas are a part of the actions. Muslims are where the current mainstream terror pool is being drawn from. That is the group that is attacking us, and they are recruiting from among the muslim population. They don't seem to be walking into Catholic or Baptist churches to do their recruiting. I have seen posts about PC, the "wussification" of America, and other things that are tying our hands behind our backs. They are correct. We need to dump the BS. Call a snake for what it is, a snake. If we don't - and we allow PC to keep us from stating and acting on the obvious - then we are doomed. |
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"By this logic, since little Timmy McVeigh and all of the white supremacists perpetrators of domestic terrorism are Christians, we should deport and imprison all Christians".......DScott Where did you hear that McVeigh was a Christian? Is it on record somewhere that he blew up the Murrah building in the name of Christ? You posted this, "D Scott" now put up or shut up-show me where McVeigh said he was a Christian? |
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When I was a young man, I joined the Military. My little buddies and I went threw training as 19D10D3's (Cavalry Scouts) and we were told that we would mostly likely be sent to Europe or Korea to guard their border against the Red Menace. I was ok with this, as I love Freedom, The USA, Mom, Apple Pie, etc. Now I am an angry old man and I have to ask, why was I trained to use deadly force to secure the German or Korean borders while my own border is but 3 stands of barbwire and a BP agent for every 20 miles? It seems very simple to me. Put some of this fine Armored Cavalry running up and down the US border and anyone caught trying to cross in a un-designated border crossing will be shot dead. No warning, no second chances and no mercy. Our national sovereignty will be respected and our borders will be secure. but then again...I'm an asshole |
You're not an asshole - you are correct |
I strongly agree, but then, I'm not in the illegal drug business. |