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The total wrong stuff, panic, total lack of profesionalism.
This is not opinion, its from reading the transcripts of the entire flight, and their actions (fighting the stick pusher and not advancing the throttles past 80 percent, missing many radio calls cause of cockpit chatter). |
| Its too easy to Monday morning QB and we really don't know all the story. Failures occured all along the path, including the pilot, the company and the Feds. It sounds like the guy was marginal and perhaps should not have been in a front seat but I won't shitcan him because he can't defend himself. Who put him in that seat? When I was teaching I taught my students to be professional every time they were sitting in the catbird seat. When I was flying I always did the same (even solo freightdog). Do the job. Nothing but flying the A/C. Everything else can wait until shutdown. I always told my students rules were made due to some one else's mistakes. Learn the rules and follow them. WJ |
#16. "The Q400 airspeed indicator lacked low-speed awareness features, such as an amber band above the low-speed cue or airspeed indications that changed to amber as speed decrease toward the low-speed cue, that would have facilitated the flight crew’s detection of the developing low-speed situation."  Wow NTSB, I can't believe people were even able to fly planes before glass!
#11 "The captain’s response to stick shaker activation should have been automatic, but his improper flight control inputs were inconsistent with his training and were instead consistent with startle and confusion." See below- NTSB board "may" contradict themselves IMHO. #38 "The inclusion of the National Aeronautics and Space Administration icing video in Colgan Air’s winter operations training may lead pilots to assume that a tailplane stall might be possible in the Q400, resulting in negative training." We all have seen that video. Please explain how this is negative training and what on earth a tailplane stall or recovery procedure had to do with this accident? The tailplane stall sounds like a "pet theory" that someone on the board had and would not give up on. It comes up several times in this report.
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The tailplane stall theory is the only excuse for the pilot doing the EXACT wrong thing.
Its BS, we know it, Colgan knows it, the NTSB knows it. He was low, he saw the alt drop, he pulled back in a panic. Its the only explanation for only advancing the throttles to 80 percent, when 120 is available. |
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The final report is a farce!
This accident was the "perfect storm" of all the dirty little secrets of the airline industry as a whole and the regional airline industry in particular culminating in one tragic event. It was hoped by myself and others that this tragic loss would at least spawn improvements, but in the end it looks like all the blame will be laid at the two pilots feet, all the know it all pilots (the aviation equivalent to the "mall ninja") will say that the pilots were not acting professionally and how "I would never do that", and the book will be closed. But we will still have: - Race to the bottom regional airlines that provide minimum levels of training and outsource most of it because they are too cheap to purchase their own simulators. - Pilot mill pilots who are given command of high performance aircraft with human cargo long before many of them are ready. - Airlines all the more willing to hire these pilots because they will work for less than a fry cook at Burger King and in some cases, actually pay the company to fly for them. - Airlines that push their pilots to fly fatigued and sick despite clear FAR guidance on the issue. - A job (no longer a true career) that forces pilots to commute long distances to their bases thus increasing the fatigue factor. - Major airlines that care only about low costs when awarding capacity purchase agreements to regional affiliates. This blame of this accident rests as much on the shoulders of those who run the industry as it does the the shoulders of CPT Renslow. |
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Having been involved in many accident investigations (two fatals just within the last month) I can't begin to tell you what factors are at play before the final report comes out. All I can do is try to respect the process, the profession and the families.
As the IIC, my report lets the chips fall where they may. I am just the guy kicking tin and trudging through the carnage, muck and blood looking for the facts. I have at least learned to bow out of those where I know the victims. |
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Quoted:
The final report is a farce! This accident was the "perfect storm" of all the dirty little secrets of the airline industry as a whole and the regional airline industry in particular culminating in one tragic event. It was hoped by myself and others that this tragic loss would at least spawn improvements, but in the end it looks like all the blame will be laid at the two pilots feet, all the know it all pilots (the aviation equivalent to the "mall ninja") will say that the pilots were not acting professionally and how "I would never do that", and the book will be closed. But we will still have: - Race to the bottom regional airlines that provide minimum levels of training and outsource most of it because they are too cheap to purchase their own simulators. - Pilot mill pilots who are given command of high performance aircraft with human cargo long before many of them are ready. - Airlines all the more willing to hire these pilots because they will work for less than a fry cook at Burger King and in some cases, actually pay the company to fly for them. - Airlines that push their pilots to fly fatigued and sick despite clear FAR guidance on the issue. - A job (no longer a true career) that forces pilots to commute long distances to their bases thus increasing the fatigue factor. - Major airlines that care only about low costs when awarding capacity purchase agreements to regional affiliates. This blame of this accident rests as much on the shoulders of those who run the industry as it does the the shoulders of CPT Renslow. This man knows what has been going on in the last decade with "contract lift". NTSB - Keep looking for that tailplane stall, Put a low speed warning band on the PFD, Walk right past everything quoted above....It will happen again. And that is disgusting. Did anything happen to the FAA P.O.I for Colgan? And not to pick just on him - what about his managers above him that had the "see no evil policy" that the FAA has had for the last decade plus? |
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Quoted:
The final report is a farce! This accident was the "perfect storm" of all the dirty little secrets of the airline industry as a whole and the regional airline industry in particular culminating in one tragic event. It was hoped by myself and others that this tragic loss would at least spawn improvements, but in the end it looks like all the blame will be laid at the two pilots feet, all the know it all pilots (the aviation equivalent to the "mall ninja") will say that the pilots were not acting professionally and how "I would never do that", and the book will be closed. But we will still have: - Race to the bottom regional airlines that provide minimum levels of training and outsource most of it because they are too cheap to purchase their own simulators. - Pilot mill pilots who are given command of high performance aircraft with human cargo long before many of them are ready. - Airlines all the more willing to hire these pilots because they will work for less than a fry cook at Burger King and in some cases, actually pay the company to fly for them. - Airlines that push their pilots to fly fatigued and sick despite clear FAR guidance on the issue. - A job (no longer a true career) that forces pilots to commute long distances to their bases thus increasing the fatigue factor. - Major airlines that care only about low costs when awarding capacity purchase agreements to regional affiliates. This blame of this accident rests as much on the shoulders of those who run the industry as it does the the shoulders of CPT Renslow. And we have a winner! You would have gotten bonus points for pointing out the clear oversight failures of the POI, and the standard NTSB post crash whitewash. |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
The final report is a farce! This accident was the "perfect storm" of all the dirty little secrets of the airline industry as a whole and the regional airline industry in particular culminating in one tragic event. It was hoped by myself and others that this tragic loss would at least spawn improvements, but in the end it looks like all the blame will be laid at the two pilots feet, all the know it all pilots (the aviation equivalent to the "mall ninja") will say that the pilots were not acting professionally and how "I would never do that", and the book will be closed. But we will still have: - Race to the bottom regional airlines that provide minimum levels of training and outsource most of it because they are too cheap to purchase their own simulators. - Pilot mill pilots who are given command of high performance aircraft with human cargo long before many of them are ready. - Airlines all the more willing to hire these pilots because they will work for less than a fry cook at Burger King and in some cases, actually pay the company to fly for them. - Airlines that push their pilots to fly fatigued and sick despite clear FAR guidance on the issue. - A job (no longer a true career) that forces pilots to commute long distances to their bases thus increasing the fatigue factor. - Major airlines that care only about low costs when awarding capacity purchase agreements to regional affiliates. This blame of this accident rests as much on the shoulders of those who run the industry as it does the the shoulders of CPT Renslow. This man knows what has been going on in the last decade with "contract lift". NTSB - Keep looking for that tailplane stall, Put a low speed warning band on the PFD, Walk right past everything quoted above....It will happen again. And that is disgusting. Did anything happen to the FAA P.O.I for Colgan? And not to pick just on him - what about his managers above him that had the "see no evil policy" that the FAA has had for the last decade plus? Not a thing...many of the management pilots were "demoted" to line check airman, which is hilarious, because many haven't even flown the aircraft they are evaluating pilots on since their initial training and IOE. |
| I've just watched the Frontline expose on the Regional Airline industry. Despite my distrust/dislike for the mainstream media, I have to say this appears to be a very well done and accurate documentary. From where I sit in the industry (at least as it pertains to the industry today), most everything stated is accurate. They even correctly stated the relationship between ExpressJet/Continental Express, Continental, and the Continental Connection carriers. Of course there had to be the cock shlugging of Sully and that Roger Cohen of the Regional Airline Alliance is a piece of shit, but all in all a good and accurate program. |
| The most intresting thing was the coments at the bottem. They interviewed a Saab 340 pilot who flew with the captain (when he was a F/O) out of Houston for a year. He said he was a average pilot- not hot stick but not a loser either. Just a regular airline pilot. Perhaps fatigue was a big factor. WJ |
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Quoted:
I've just watched the Frontline expose on the Regional Airline industry. Despite my distrust/dislike for the mainstream media, I have to say this appears to be a very well done and accurate documentary. From where I sit in the industry (at least as it pertains to the industry today), most everything stated is accurate. They even correctly stated the relationship between ExpressJet/Continental Express, Continental, and the Continental Connection carriers. Of course there had to be the cock shlugging of Sully and that Roger Cohen of the Regional Airline Alliance is a piece of shit, but all in all a good and accurate program. I thought it was VERY well done. Good job Frontline. |
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Quoted: I've just watched the Frontline expose on the Regional Airline industry. Despite my distrust/dislike for the mainstream media, I have to say this appears to be a very well done and accurate documentary. From where I sit in the industry (at least as it pertains to the industry today), most everything stated is accurate. They even correctly stated the relationship between ExpressJet/Continental Express, Continental, and the Continental Connection carriers. Of course there had to be the cock shlugging of Sully and that Roger Cohen of the Regional Airline Alliance is a piece of shit, but all in all a good and accurate program. Heading on over to watch it now I totally missed there documentary on it called "Flying Cheap". Video: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/flyingcheap/view/?utm_campaign=viewpage&utm_medium=toparea&utm_source=toparea |