Posted: 11/27/2012 6:00:14 PM EDT
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I had (2) Kaiser Defense complete lowers with stocks arrive to my FFL dealer today.
I want to use (1) for a Spikes .22 upper that will be here on Wednesday & the other is going to be turned into an SBR. I asked the FFL dealer if I could transfer (1) as a pistol so I can keep the 7.5" upper I ordered (that is a Troy M7) at my house till my tax stamp arrives & enjoy shooting it without a stock on of course….. That way I can sight in my T1 and BUIS. He told me it is transferred to me as an "other" & I can do what I want with it……. My research shows "stripped lowers" are considered "others" but I can't find any info about complete lowers being transferred. Also I got delayed tonight & told to come back Saturday…... thats never happened to me in 25+ firearm purchases….. Whats that all about? The odd stuff in my life lately are: 1) I made (5) pistol purchases in the last 4 months 2) I had my DL suspended because of tickets but have it now. 3) Had my credit card company call me about a month ago because of some ID theft (it was 8 charges for less then $100.00 total). They took care of it & sent me a new card. 4) My trust sent in (2) form 1's for SBRs & (2) form 4's for surpressors BUT as of today my checks have not posted. I know I have nothing on my record that would restrict me from purchasing/ owning a firearm so i'm wondering if the lowers transferred as "others" made this happen? This is the first time I made an internet purchase that had to be sent to a FFL. What do you guys think the cause of this delay is? And can I use that complete lower transferred as an "other" as a pistol till my stamp arrives (with stock removed & pistol buffer tube on of course)? |
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Quoted: If it has a stock it can never be a pistol. Even if a upper has not been onit. It cant be transfered as other either due to the stock It is my understanding they are always transferred as "other", hence why 18 year olds can't buy lowers of any form, but that despite this, you are still correct, once it has a stock it can never be a pistol. Except for the thompson contender? I don't know. ATF sucks. |
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If it has a stock it can never be a pistol. Even if a upper has not been onit. It cant be transfered as other either due to the stock It is my understanding they are always transferred as "other", hence why 18 year olds can't buy lowers of any form, but that despite this, you are still correct, once it has a stock it can never be a pistol. Except for the thompson contender? I don't know. ATF sucks. 
I think you summed it up nicely. ETA - You ever find your fucking chorizo at wally world? 
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Hide your dag. Since the FFL has already called it in do I go back when this "delay" is worked out & tell him he did it wrong & do it over? EDIT: I see, so it is an "other" but can only be a rifle now because I took delivery of it with a stock on. I guess I'll just have to sit on my uppers (or my dad will) till my stamps arrive. Or purchase another lower but I'm pretty much out of fun money at this point. |
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Quoted:
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If it has a stock it can never be a pistol. Even if a upper has not been onit. It cant be transfered as other either due to the stock It is my understanding they are always transferred as "other", hence why 18 year olds can't buy lowers of any form, but that despite this, you are still correct, once it has a stock it can never be a pistol. Except for the thompson contender? I don't know. ATF sucks. Other is a striped lower or a complete one without a stock. Once the stock is on its a rifle never to become a pistol. |
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I'm an FFL and do a lot of transfers. If it came to him with a stock on it, he can't transfer it as a pistol - once a rifle, always a rifle. You need a stripped lower or pistol lower for that. Stripped lower will be transferred as a 'receiver' on the form 4473 and can be built into either, providing it has never had a stock attached.
Don't sweat the delay - NICS is overloaded the past few days, stuff times out, a lot of people are getting the proceed a few hours later... |
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The definition of a rifle includes both a stock and a barreled action.
If it's never been a rifle, it's "other". If its never been a rifle there should be no issue making into a pistol as it holds the same legal definition as a stripped AR, a stripped pistol frame, a virgin unbarreled M203 receiver, or any other firearm that does not fit the definitions the ATF has laid out for "pistol", "rifle", "shotgun", "machine gun", "silencer", "destructive device", "SBR", "SBS", or AOW. |
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Quoted:
The definition of a rifle includes both a stock and a barreled action. If it's never been a rifle, it's "other". If its never been a rifle there should be no issue making into a pistol as it holds the same legal definition as a stripped AR, a stripped pistol frame, a virgin unbarreled M203 receiver, or any other firearm that does not fit the definitions the ATF has laid out for "pistol", "rifle", "shotgun", "machine gun", "silencer", "destructive device", "SBR", "SBS", or AOW. My FFL dealer is looking at it the same way. So looking at it this way & the dealer's form is showing it transferred as an "other" I should be legal as a pistol by removing the stock or have the dealer do it for good measure? Hmm |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
The definition of a rifle includes both a stock and a barreled action. If it's never been a rifle, it's "other". If its never been a rifle there should be no issue making into a pistol as it holds the same legal definition as a stripped AR, a stripped pistol frame, a virgin unbarreled M203 receiver, or any other firearm that does not fit the definitions the ATF has laid out for "pistol", "rifle", "shotgun", "machine gun", "silencer", "destructive device", "SBR", "SBS", or AOW. My FFL dealer is looking at it the same way. So looking at it this way & the dealer's form is showing it transferred as an "other" I should be legal as a pistol by removing the stock or have the dealer do it for good measure? Hmm To be 100% safe, you need a letter from the manufacturer stating it has never been assembled as a rifle (did the manufacturer test fire the lower as part of their QC? If so, it has been a rifle and cannot be converted to a pistol legally no matter how it is transferred). |
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Quoted:
Since the FFL has already called it in do I go back when this "delay" is worked out & tell him he did it wrong & do it over? EDIT: I see, so it is an "other" but can only be a rifle now because I took delivery of it with a stock on. I guess I'll just have to sit on my uppers (or my dad will) till my stamps arrive. Or purchase another lower but I'm pretty much out of fun money at this point. Easy fix. Sell the lower assembly or strip it and sell the stripped lower to someone who wants it then buy a new stripped lower and assemble it as a pistol lower. Probably won't lose any money. |
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Did he call it in as a rifle??
Did anyone video you getting it with a stock on it?? If not, quit asking questions and just treat it like a "other" lower receiver Free Quoted:
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Hide your dag. Since the FFL has already called it in do I go back when this "delay" is worked out & tell him he did it wrong & do it over? EDIT: I see, so it is an "other" but can only be a rifle now because I took delivery of it with a stock on. I guess I'll just have to sit on my uppers (or my dad will) till my stamps arrive. Or purchase another lower but I'm pretty much out of fun money at this point. |
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If it has a stock it can never be a pistol. Even if a upper has not been onit. It cant be transfered as other either due to the stock About a year ago when I was trying, as an 18 year old to figure out how to purchase a lower receiver, for ky first ar build, I ended up calling the atf tech branch several times. Each person I spoke with stated that no katter what, whether it was a completed lower with a stock or a stripped lower, it was t be transferred as an "other". This was explained to me because (and I ask d all three the same question) the receiver was neither a pistol or rifle until its first assembly. A complete lower, with a stock, could have the stock removed prior to an upper and short bbl being placed upon it and it wouod be considered a pistol. However, unless the buffer tube meant for the rifle stock was replaced with one meant flfor usenas a pistol tube, it would be constructive possession of an unregistered sbr. Has there been a change? |
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Quoted:
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Since the FFL has already called it in do I go back when this "delay" is worked out & tell him he did it wrong & do it over? EDIT: I see, so it is an "other" but can only be a rifle now because I took delivery of it with a stock on. I guess I'll just have to sit on my uppers (or my dad will) till my stamps arrive. Or purchase another lower but I'm pretty much out of fun money at this point. Easy fix. Sell the lower assembly or strip it and sell the stripped lower to someone who wants it then buy a new stripped lower and assemble it as a pistol lower. Probably won't lose any money. The FFL has a few stripped lowers, (1) was a M&P for $149.00 & I think the other was a Del-ton at $139.00 To be safe I guess I could buy one & swap the internals. It would be nice to shoot for the next 6+ months while waiting for a darn stamp. But on the other hand….. i've waited this long & have plenty of older stuff that has been neglected. Darn, I hate not being sure about stuff 
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