Concealed weapons not a good answer. GaTech > General Discussion

Posted: 5/21/2007 4:35:13 AM EDT

Link

By Lindsay Deal
Entertainment Editor

Sigh

Under this theory, the argument is that some armed hero may have been able to thwart Seung-Hui Cho's killing fest in Virginia before he murdered 32 others and then turned the gun on himself.

Of course, in most places this hero would have to possess a permit to carry a concealed hand gun. Here is where Perry's argument breaks down: according to a search of online court records by The Roanoke Times, none of the 51 people who were killed or injured at Virginia Tech had a permit. Interesting. The "good guys," in this case, didn't want to carry guns on or off campus.

And then, of course, there are the numerous reasons why colleges are one of the dumbest places imaginable to allow guns (probably third in line behind bars and casinos. Okay, and brothels. Brothels are really not good places for guns, either. But anyway...).

Allowing guns on campuses would likely lead to a number of unintended consequences. (Yes, I know the Mormons out in Utah are allowed to carry guns on campus, but come on, they're Mormons. They don't count.)

More guns on college campuses means more guns in the hands of reckless kids who are often just out of their teens. Their hormones are raging, and a lot of them are experimenting with drugs and alcohol-possibly for the first time.

I'm not saying that every college student is incapable of responsibly carrying a weapon, but I think that an increased number of guns on campus is ultimately a horrible idea.

Alcohol is a huge part of the college culture (again, excluding those Mormons), and I think it would be best to avoid allowing a stocked gun closet in the Kappa Alpha house after Clayton and Bart share a case of Pabst Blue Ribbon and eventually get into a heated argument over who has a bigger lift on their fire engine red luxury edition F-eleventybillion-50s.

And even if they're in a peaceful, drunken setting, guns and alcohol still don't mix. Accidents always happen, and more drinking means more accidents. When guns are involved, these can be deadly accidents.

In addition to the homicides that would likely follow a change in firearm laws on campus, the 24,000 annual suicide attempts by college students would likely be much more deadly. If every depressed freshman knew there was a Glock 9 mm in the next room, my guess is that most suicide attempts would become suicide fatalities.

With alcohol aplenty, hormones raging, and the stress of a college curriculum, allowing more guns on campus would likely result in more, rather than fewer, campus deaths.

Those few lives that could be saved in the event of a terrorist attack on campus would probably be greatly outnumbered by those killed by guns in homicides, suicides and accidents.
By Lindsay Deal Entertainment Editor

In this country, the usual reaction to horrendous events like the Virginia Tech massacre is to come together as a nation and mourn the loss of innocent victims. But this phase quickly passes, and within hours there are those who are eager to point fingers and place blame.

Just days after last month's shootings at Virginia Tech, I noticed a number of classmates joining Facebook groups supporting concealed weapons on campus. Their argument is that if more people have handguns, then the good guys (with guns) will be better able to stop the bad guys (also packing heat).

Many politicians share this view, including Governor Rick Perry of Texas (yes, that's right, the same upstanding citizen who made headlines after accepting $6,000 in campaign contributions from Merck, and then ordering that all Texas sixth grade females be required to get the human papilloma virus vaccine Merck manufactures) who was quick to offer his solution to end gun violence: more guns.

After a meeting with Michael Leavitt, U.S. Health and Human Services Secretary, to discuss how to prevent mass shootings and improve school safety, Perry said he thought Texans should be allowed to carry guns everywhere, including bars, churches and schools.

Under this theory, the argument is that some armed hero may have been able to thwart Seung-Hui Cho's killing fest in Virginia before he murdered 32 others and then turned the gun on himself.

Of course, in most places this hero would have to possess a permit to carry a concealed hand gun. Here is where Perry's argument breaks down: according to a search of online court records by The Roanoke Times, none of the 51 people who were killed or injured at Virginia Tech had a permit. Interesting. The "good guys," in this case, didn't want to carry guns on or off campus.

And then, of course, there are the numerous reasons why colleges are one of the dumbest places imaginable to allow guns (probably third in line behind bars and casinos. Okay, and brothels. Brothels are really not good places for guns, either. But anyway...).

Allowing guns on campuses would likely lead to a number of unintended consequences. (Yes, I know the Mormons out in Utah are allowed to carry guns on campus, but come on, they're Mormons. They don't count.)

Posted: 5/21/2007 4:38:32 AM EDT

[#1]

Sounds like this bitch is racist vs Mormons or racist vs everyone else who aren't Mormons, for some reason.

Posted: 5/21/2007 4:41:51 AM EDT

[#2]

By Lindsay Deal
Entertainment Editor

Gee......Lindsay just what does being the Entertainment Editor have to do with this issue? You fiqure that because you sat though Babel you now are a expert on this subject?.

Posted: 5/21/2007 4:46:03 AM EDT

[#3]

I hope that this isn't her best work otherwise she had better get used to eating Ramen for the rest of her life ....

Posted: 5/21/2007 4:46:04 AM EDT

[#4]

What a dumb cunt.

Posted: 5/21/2007 4:46:19 AM EDT

[#5]

A better search would see how many CCW holders were in the building or surrounding area of the shootings. Not if they got killed.

Posted: 5/21/2007 4:51:45 AM EDT

[#6]

A silly college girl with no clue is one thing.

This was in today's local paper...from an MD:

I guess the Virginia Attorney General has a right to get upset with the mayor of New York for demonstrating that Virginia and several other states are NOT enforcing even their lax laws on firearms. Instead he should be humiliated.

It is not surprising, though, for many endorse the NRA, whose latest statement was to say "we must protect the second amendment rights of suspected terrorists, after all they are only suspected." When our country is spending billions of dollars, supposedly to prevent terrorist attacks, it makes no sense to continue to sell guns that are intended only for killing. Two points, like Virginia Tech and even more recently Fort Dix. The assault guns were purchased LEGALLY. As far as I can see there is only one reason to own such a gun — it makes some people feel like they are in control.

The Second Amendment was passed when people needed guns primarily to feed themselves. I doubt many of us would need a gun to keep from starving. I know that the NRA says guns don’t kill people, but tell that to the families of those killed at Virginia Tech! To continue to allow such weapons available to the general public is a disgrace. It plays right into the hands of violent groups and does little to nothing, to protect the general public.

Look at the probability of students armed at Virginia Tech. Gun shots, several students armed step out into the hallway from several rooms, They see guns, who is the bad person? High adrenaline, excitement and fear and guns start blazing. Students shooting students?. And then when law enforcement arrives, again lots of guns, who is the bad person? General chaos and mayhem.

Many gun advocates quote from a book, "More Guns, Less Crime," by Jon Lott. He supposedly did some polls and studies but it has been found now that his polls and studies are fake.

We don’t need to get rid of all guns, just those that are designed for the military. More guns put more opportunity for killing and murder in the hands of people that hate other people, whatever their reason may be.

We clearly need to revise the first amendment to include a "know what the f*ck you are talking about" clause requiring you to actually know what the f*ck you are talking about before opening your giant cakehole about it.

Posted: 5/21/2007 4:58:50 AM EDT

[#7]

what an ignorant ass.

Just cause it's against the law doesn't mean that there aren't guns there. It just means that they are in the hands of people with no regard for the law...

Posted: 5/21/2007 5:01:43 AM EDT

[#8]

Curious how alcohol is part of the 'culture' on campus, but not a problem.

Posted: 5/21/2007 5:03:11 AM EDT

[#9]

i stoped reading once whoever wrote the article assumed they would be drinking and carrying. projection. they cant imagine themselves not drinking so they believe everyone must. hell today is my 23rd birthday and i wont drink

Posted: 5/21/2007 5:20:43 AM EDT

[#10]

Of course, in most places this hero would have to possess a permit to carry a concealed hand gun. Here is where Perry's argument breaks down: according to a search of online court records by The Roanoke Times, none of the 51 people who were killed or injured at Virginia Tech had a permit. Interesting. The "good guys," in this case, didn't want to carry guns on or off campus.

People are a lot less likely to have a permit when they aren't allowed to carry the majority of the time anyway.

Posted: 5/21/2007 5:26:50 AM EDT

[#11]

Who has a link to the post of the ARFCOMER @ VTech that has his CHL and was in one of the buildings where the shooting was happening?

Posted: 5/21/2007 5:26:56 AM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:

Of course, in most places this hero would have to possess a permit to carry a concealed hand gun. Here is where Perry's argument breaks down: according to a search of online court records by The Roanoke Times, none of the 51 people who were killed or injured at Virginia Tech had a permit. Interesting. The "good guys," in this case, didn't want to carry guns on or off campus.

People are a lot less likely to have a permit when they aren't allowed to carry the majority of the time anyway.

Plus, I don't understand why the only looked up the people that were killed, and not everyone that was in the lecture halls at the time.

Posted: 5/21/2007 5:31:17 AM EDT

[#13]

The statement about the frat guys truck makes her look ridiculously jealous...

Posted: 5/21/2007 5:34:55 AM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
Link

By Lindsay Deal
Entertainment Editor

Sigh

Under this theory, the argument is that some armed hero may have been able to thwart Seung-Hui Cho's killing fest in Virginia before he murdered 32 others and then turned the gun on himself.

Of course, in most places this hero would have to possess a permit to carry a concealed hand gun. Here is where Perry's argument breaks down: according to a search of online court records by The Roanoke Times, none of the 51 people who were killed or injured at Virginia Tech had a permit. Interesting. The "good guys," in this case, didn't want to carry guns on or off campus.

Quoted:

I am a VT student and was in Norris Hall on Monday the 16th. I was on the first floor and in a classroom that he did not visit. We are not allowed to carry on campus and this makes me mad as hell. I have carried on occasion when going to the range with friends after class or something like that.

If I had my gun that day (Sig P239 SAS), and he had come into my classroom, I would have ended it then and there.

I felt really guilty for not doing anything in the days after the attack. But, I have realized that there wasn't any way for me to know how many shooters there were, or if it was police doing the shooting. Going upstairs unarmed would have been a huge mistake.

I don't know if I will ever stop feeling bad for cowering in the corner of a classroom, but if that is all I have to worry about then I am damn lucky.

I lost 9 people on the 16th, A current professor, 2 current Teaching assistants, 5 friends, and student (I am a teaching assistant myself).

It is a shame that more people aren't talking about this. It needs to be discussed at length until every single person understands that the Police are there to investigate crimes and charge individuals under law, not to protect each one of us every second of everyday. That responsibility, in a free society, lies solely with the individual.

I have been asked several times, "why do you need a gun around here (in Blacksburg), nothing ever happens here." I don't know if it is ignorance or just wanting to be taken care of instead of taking responsibility for yourself and your actions.

EDIT: I am a VA CHL holder, and have been for a year now. My name and address were published by the Roanoke times just a few weeks ago. I am not saying that I am the best shot, but I shoot 1-2k rounds a month through my various handguns at the range.

-Bob

Posted: 5/21/2007 5:36:14 AM EDT

[#15]

What a bigot.

Posted: 5/21/2007 5:38:16 AM EDT

[#16]

Okay, if that's what'll happen, how do you explane my experience? I spent a hell of a lot of time and money adding to my gun collection in college. I also drank a whole lot and had a good time doing it. My buddies lived off campus. Between the three of us we filled the gun safe. We also drank at their place often. No one got shot and we even had several heated arguments about 9mm vs. .45.

Posted: 5/21/2007 5:39:29 AM EDT

[#17]

Would this dumbass like to go on record as saying John Lott's studies were fake? I bet he would own their ass really quick

Quoted:
A silly college girl with no clue is one thing.

This was in today's local paper...from an MD:

I guess the Virginia Attorney General has a right to get upset with the mayor of New York for demonstrating that Virginia and several other states are NOT enforcing even their lax laws on firearms. Instead he should be humiliated.

It is not surprising, though, for many endorse the NRA, whose latest statement was to say "we must protect the second amendment rights of suspected terrorists, after all they are only suspected." When our country is spending billions of dollars, supposedly to prevent terrorist attacks, it makes no sense to continue to sell guns that are intended only for killing. Two points, like Virginia Tech and even more recently Fort Dix. The assault guns were purchased LEGALLY. As far as I can see there is only one reason to own such a gun — it makes some people feel like they are in control.

The Second Amendment was passed when people needed guns primarily to feed themselves. I doubt many of us would need a gun to keep from starving. I know that the NRA says guns don’t kill people, but tell that to the families of those killed at Virginia Tech! To continue to allow such weapons available to the general public is a disgrace. It plays right into the hands of violent groups and does little to nothing, to protect the general public.

Look at the probability of students armed at Virginia Tech. Gun shots, several students armed step out into the hallway from several rooms, They see guns, who is the bad person? High adrenaline, excitement and fear and guns start blazing. Students shooting students?. And then when law enforcement arrives, again lots of guns, who is the bad person? General chaos and mayhem.

Many gun advocates quote from a book, "More Guns, Less Crime," by Jon Lott. He supposedly did some polls and studies but it has been found now that his polls and studies are fake.

We don’t need to get rid of all guns, just those that are designed for the military. More guns put more opportunity for killing and murder in the hands of people that hate other people, whatever their reason may be.

We clearly need to revise the first amendment to include a "know what the f*ck you are talking about" clause requiring you to actually know what the f*ck you are talking about before opening your giant cakehole about it.

Posted: 5/21/2007 5:42:26 AM EDT

[#18]

I wonder what would happen if they gave drunk driving the same space/time in the paper and on the news. Maybe then we could do something about the real slaughter that occurs every day.

Posted: 5/21/2007 5:50:21 AM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
Would this dumbass like to go on record as saying John Lott's studies were fake? I bet he would own their ass really quick

His diatribe was published in my local paper.

That's about as "on record" as one can get, methinks....

Posted: 5/21/2007 5:54:53 AM EDT

[#20]

Yeah, but I bet he couldnt debate Lott face to face..........amazing how these idiots can write this garbage without doing any research.............such is the face of journalism in 2007

Quoted:

Quoted:
Would this dumbass like to go on record as saying John Lott's studies were fake? I bet he would own their ass really quick

His diatribe was published in my local paper.

That's about as "on record" as one can get, methinks....

Posted: 5/21/2007 6:02:53 AM EDT

[#21]

With the issues of drugs, alcohol, and minors being a concern, why can't schools implement a program similar to the air marshals? Think of this, essentially hire and train a select number of students to carry. You can give them scholarships so their education would be free, free firearms training for those looking for a career in law enforcement, and in return campuses could have anonymous "police" in class earning their degree. Could also possibly confer a waiver to carry for the under aged "school marshals" on campus only just so they don't go JBT on somebody off campus. Just thinking out loud.

mfn

Posted: 5/21/2007 7:16:09 AM EDT

[#22]

Submitted this:

This letter is in response to the article by Lindsay Deal ("Concealed weapons not a good answer" 5/18/07).

In her article, she states:

"The "good guys," in this case, didn't want to carry guns on or off campus", discussing the 51 victims, stating none had a CCW permit as support for her position.

However, a glaring omission is her failure to mention whether any of the dozens of others in the area that day (students, faulty, staff) did. This really pushes the limits of assumption on the part of the reader.

It would be interesting (as well as more balanced as a journalist) to find out whether or not there actually were any CCW holders in the path of destruction that day. Instead, to support her position, Ms. Deal elected to point to a group of victims who may have chosen to remain disarmed (and thus in school) rather than violate a feel good policy which proved useless against a determined criminal, and instead only protected the fearful from imagined dangers.

We'll see if it gets published.

Posted: 5/21/2007 7:16:41 AM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
A silly college girl with no clue is one thing.

This was in today's local paper...from an MD:

Which paper?

ETA - got it - www.dailynews-record.com/opinion_details.php?LID=3821

Allen M. Clague, MD
Harrisonburg

My response:

This letter is in rebuttal to the letter by Dr. Allen M. Clague of Harrisonburg ("More Guns, More Crime") in today's edition.

The Second Amendment has nothing to do with hunting. It has to do with the right of citizens to be armed. If Dr. Clague remembered his American History, he would have known that the battles of Lexington and Concord happened because of the British Army detachment being sent to seize the arms held by the colonists. Our founding fathers understood the importance difference between unarmed subjects and armed citizens.

He goes on to parrot the "gun control" line anticipating a "wild west shootout" - an event that has not occurred in any of the states with CCW. Such a lack of basic research from a Medical Doctor is surprising. According to the National Institute of Justice, citizens involved in shootings error only 2% of the time - yet the police error 11% of the time.

And when in doubt? It's most likley the guy who's shooting the kids cowering under the tables that's the bad guy. For a Doctor, I would think he would have better observational skills.

I addition, Dr. Lott's research and data have NEVER been attacked or disproven. This move to discredit him comes from his posing as a student to discuss his work on the internet. While that act is questionable, many others have tried to find fault in his data, but none have.

And I also find it interesting that a Medical Doctor stands before us talking about death in the general public. A recent study showed that, while 28,000 people were victims of death by firearms, 98,000 died due to negligence by medical professionals.

Maybe we should start restricting "Assault Doctors".

Posted: 5/21/2007 7:50:10 AM EDT

[#24]

Folks, I go to GT, I know Lindsay personally, and I think I can explain the editorial.

I've tried to take her shooting, I've tried to explain why and how guns are not the problem she imagines them to be, she went ahead and wrote the editorial anyway.

It's the summer edition of the school paper, she was behind her deadline, and she needs to fill the space, so she oftentimes treats it as her personal vent-space.

When she brought me the paper, I even pointed out what you have noticed, that the 51 unarmed victims is a pointless comparison. She already knows I'm walking, talking proof that me and my friends can have guns and alcohol in close proximity but never mix the two.

In summary: women.

Posted: 5/21/2007 8:48:08 AM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:
Folks, I go to GT, I know Lindsay personally, and I think I can explain the editorial.

I've tried to take her shooting, I've tried to explain why and how guns are not the problem she imagines them to be, she went ahead and wrote the editorial anyway.

It's the summer edition of the school paper, she was behind her deadline, and she needs to fill the space, so she oftentimes treats it as her personal vent-space.

When she brought me the paper, I even pointed out what you have noticed, that the 51 unarmed victims is a pointless comparison. She already knows I'm walking, talking proof that me and my friends can have guns and alcohol in close proximity but never mix the two.

In summary: women.

An anti-gun gal that ignores all logic and even practical examples right in front of her? With her own bully pulpit? Great.

I just submitted the following:

In Friday's op-ed by Lindsay Deal about the attack on the Virginia Tech students, she made the statement that “…according to a search of online court records by The Roanoke Times, none of the 51 people who were killed or injured at Virginia Tech had a permit. Interesting. The "good guys," in this case, didn't want to carry guns on or off campus.”

While the 51 victims may have not had a permit, there was at least one student teacher in Morris Hall that did. Due to the fact that permit holders abide by the rules, he did not carry his gun on Campus that day. Could he, or would he have been able to stop Seung-Hui Cho? We will never know, but it underscores the fact that VT was an easy target.

Ms. Deal may wish to obfuscate the argument with an armed, drunk, and hormonal teenage straw man, but the prohibition of guns on campus also extends to rational, mature, adults. Adults who have undergone background checks, received training and have been issued permits to carry firearms, but were unable to intervene in a mass murder at Virginia Tech because of bad policy.

There are no easy answers when trying to understand the actions of an insane murderer, but there is an easy answer when it comes to stopping them. It may be distasteful to academia to think that the “good guys” don’t always wear white hats (or blue uniforms), but armed first responders in the classrooms of VT may very well have been the difference between life and death for many students.

On January 31 of last year, Virginia Tech spokesman Larry Hinkler made the following statement after a bill to allow Virginia’s concealed carry permit holders to be armed on college campuses was defeated in committee: "I'm sure the university community is appreciative of the General Assembly's actions because this will help parents, students, faculty and visitors feel safe on our campus."

I wonder how safe Virginia Tech’s students, faculty and visitors felt on April 16th, knowing that no one but a criminal was armed?

It'll be interesting to see if it gets published.

Posted: 5/21/2007 8:57:23 AM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
i stoped reading once whoever wrote the article assumed they would be drinking and carrying. projection. they cant imagine themselves not drinking so they believe everyone must. hell today is my 23rd birthday and i wont drink

Happy Birfday!

Posted: 5/21/2007 9:43:49 AM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:
A silly college girl with no clue is one thing.

This was in today's local paper...from an MD:

I guess the Virginia Attorney General has a right to get upset with the mayor of New York for demonstrating that Virginia and several other states are NOT enforcing even their lax laws on firearms. Instead he should be humiliated.

It is not surprising, though, for many endorse the NRA, whose latest statement was to say "we must protect the second amendment rights of suspected terrorists, after all they are only suspected." When our country is spending billions of dollars, supposedly to prevent terrorist attacks, it makes no sense to continue to sell guns that are intended only for killing. Two points, like Virginia Tech and even more recently Fort Dix. The assault guns were purchased LEGALLY. As far as I can see there is only one reason to own such a gun — it makes some people feel like they are in control.

The Second Amendment was passed when people needed guns primarily to feed themselves. I doubt many of us would need a gun to keep from starving. I know that the NRA says guns don’t kill people, but tell that to the families of those killed at Virginia Tech! To continue to allow such weapons available to the general public is a disgrace. It plays right into the hands of violent groups and does little to nothing, to protect the general public.

Look at the probability of students armed at Virginia Tech. Gun shots, several students armed step out into the hallway from several rooms, They see guns, who is the bad person? High adrenaline, excitement and fear and guns start blazing. Students shooting students?. And then when law enforcement arrives, again lots of guns, who is the bad person? General chaos and mayhem.

Many gun advocates quote from a book, "More Guns, Less Crime," by Jon Lott. He supposedly did some polls and studies but it has been found now that his polls and studies are fake.

We don’t need to get rid of all guns, just those that are designed for the military. More guns put more opportunity for killing and murder in the hands of people that hate other people, whatever their reason may be.

We clearly need to revise the first amendment to include a "know what the f*ck you are talking about" clause requiring you to actually know what the f*ck you are talking about before opening your giant cakehole about it.

weapons to be used in the Fort Dix terror plot were NOT legal..... The would-be terrorists were ordering fully automatic weapons from an undercover FBI informant.

Posted: 5/21/2007 10:37:07 AM EDT

[#28]

well, good on you guys for putting some rebuttals in the paper...the summer edition can be really thin

Posted: 5/21/2007 10:37:24 AM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:
weapons to be used in the Fort Dix terror plot were NOT legal..... The would-be terrorists were ordering fully automatic weapons from an undercover FBI informant.

But didn't they use "AW's" at a range somewhere?

Posted: 5/21/2007 11:48:01 AM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:

Quoted:
weapons to be used in the Fort Dix terror plot were NOT legal..... The would-be terrorists were ordering fully automatic weapons from an undercover FBI informant.

But didn't they use "AW's" at a range somewhere?

weren't they illegal immigrants unable to be in possession of firearms anyway?

Posted: 5/21/2007 11:53:55 AM EDT

[#31]

Mormons don't count.

What a dumb ass.

Posted: 5/21/2007 11:57:20 AM EDT

[#32]

Just having a permit to carry a gun is not the answer.

A person has to be trained to use that weapon effectively, otherwise innocent bystanders might get hurt. Now, that can be taught in a classroom....

But, it also takes balls to engage a psychotic gunman going room to room...wasting people....on your own. That can't be taught in a classroom.

Posted: 5/21/2007 11:58:42 AM EDT

[#33]

Yet another fucking idiot who thinks we want to hand out guns to every kid on campus.

I hate liberals. "To hell with facts, I'll form my opinion based on what I think is going on and present it as the truth."

Posted: 5/21/2007 11:59:32 AM EDT

[#34]

Just another dumb anti-gun liberal. So what.

Posted: 5/21/2007 12:01:27 PM EDT

[#35]

What does this writer mean "brothels are not a good place for a gun". Is that some snarky comment

Posted: 5/21/2007 12:07:32 PM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:
Folks, I go to GT, I know Lindsay personally, and I think I can explain the editorial.

I've tried to take her shooting, I've tried to explain why and how guns are not the problem she imagines them to be, she went ahead and wrote the editorial anyway.

It's the summer edition of the school paper, she was behind her deadline, and she needs to fill the space, so she oftentimes treats it as her personal vent-space.

When she brought me the paper, I even pointed out what you have noticed, that the 51 unarmed victims is a pointless comparison. She already knows I'm walking, talking proof that me and my friends can have guns and alcohol in close proximity but never mix the two.

In summary: women.

It's ok, my college paper was filled with ignorant, whiney emos who thought that the school paper was their personal vent space or something.

ugh.

Posted: 5/21/2007 12:07:56 PM EDT

[#37]

I stopped after reading the "The mormons carry in Utah....but they're mormons, they dont count."

Posted: 5/21/2007 12:15:13 PM EDT

[#38]

Yeah cause it worked so well to stop the VT shootings

Posted: 5/21/2007 12:48:15 PM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:

Quoted:
weapons to be used in the Fort Dix terror plot were NOT legal..... The would-be terrorists were ordering fully automatic weapons from an undercover FBI informant.

But didn't they use "AW's" at a range somewhere?

weren't they illegal immigrants unable to be in possession of firearms anyway?

Agreed... but notice how they left the "illegal" part out.

Posted: 5/21/2007 12:51:53 PM EDT

[#40]

female on guns. rare are the inteligent ones on this subject, present company excluded

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