User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 9:29:39 AM EDT
[#1]
Plain old EFPs do not work against Chobham armor. They have some effect in a vertical direction, because the armor is thin on top, but from any horizontal plane, no. Shaped charges that rely on EFPs are most effective against homogenous metallic armor. Like solid thick steel. Chobham armor is not relying on sheer mass and thickness where greater thickness is better. If you've ever run a torch all day cutting thick steel up for salvage or whatever, you'll understand. When you hit the melt point and start the O2, you got to be smooth and keep the momentum. If you lose it, you have to start over, reheating before you can keep on cutting. EFPs work the same way, and layered Chobham type armor interrupts that.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 9:33:24 AM EDT
[#2]
Also, thick steel armor is subject to spalling. Even if the projectile doesn't penetrate, it's likely to knock a chunk off the other side to bounce around the crew compartment. Chobham-style armor also does not do that. As much as half the kills in W2 were from spalling.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 9:35:27 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Tank on tank is boring. I want to know if a PIAT or a US bazooka (the little one, not the super-bazooka) could kill an Abrams. Not just knock a track off, but penetrate the hull. No. However you are very lucky that so few RPG-29s were delivered to Iraq. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 9:44:20 AM EDT
[#4]
How's this mashup supposed to happen? Abrams goes back in time? Or does the Tiger show up in the present?
Abrams in 1944......Tiger crew, "What the fuck is THAT!!" In German! Tiger in 2021.......how hard is it to maneuver a Tiger across Barret-Jackson's stage? Tiger's crew will be able to afford many gold bars off the sale of that thing. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 9:49:45 AM EDT
[#5]
I scrolled though looking for a pic of a tiger 1 tank. the coolest looking tank from the front ever. The King tiger has a more modern look, it's OK. Most American soldiers thought panzer 4's were tigers.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 10:02:08 AM EDT
[#6]
Sure it could. A mobility kill via hitting it's tracks.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 10:03:59 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Of course it would need the Abrams to stop moving first...  Or forget to shoot. Or forget how to use it’s more advanced detection systems / optics 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 10:08:49 AM EDT
[#8]
I could take a Plt of M1's, and dispatch all 100 KT's, and never have to put down my coffee cup, or light a second cigarete...
Well, maybe I lite a second smoke while we cross level a few rds to dispatch the other 20 or so.... 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 10:30:38 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Now this is an interesting scenario. 10 Abrams vs. 100 King Tigers. Tigers will eventually swarm and kill them at a 10 to 1 ratio. Rational follows..... 1. The ability to use 120mm to maximum range possible terrain wise is not very likely or rarely ever seen. 2. Fire and maneuver. The Tigers will not be doing a simple frontal attack but rather using terrain to close distance while being overwatched. This attack will not be a turn based scenario. 3. Taking an individual tank out of the game does not have to be a catastrophic kill. It can be firepower (optics or gun), mobility, manpower, or communications as well. 4. A single vehicle taken out of fight by any one of the above methods exponentially increases number of threats they have to deal with rather quickly as well. 5. This is a simple tank on tank scenario. Throw in combined arms approach and things get dicey quick. ETA: Quantity has a quality all its own |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 10:40:24 AM EDT
[#10]
It would get the Abrhams attention then explode.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 10:51:58 AM EDT
[#11]
Operation Desert Storm was the first conflict to see the extensive use of depleted uranium [DU] munitions and armor. The new DU rounds gave coalition forces a marked operational advantage. Unit histories from the Gulf War contain many anecdotes attesting to the effectiveness of DU "silver bullets," as they were called by US tankers. One armor brigade commander described looking on in "amazement" as his soldiers -- who in training had never fired at targets beyond 2,400 meters (1.5 miles) -- routinely scored first-shot kills on targets out to 3,000 meters (1.9 miles) and beyond. DU armor gained an equally impressive reputation. A Iraqi T-72 has an effective range of about 1,800 yards, while an M1's range is nearly twice that.
A story illustrating DU's offensive and defensive renown involves an M1A1 "Heavy Armor" tank that had become mired in the mud. The unit (part of the 24th Infantry Division) had gone on, leaving this tank to wait for a recovery vehicle. Three T-72's appeared and attacked. The first fired from under 1,000 meters, scoring a hit with a shaped-charge (high explosive) round on the M1A1's frontal armor. The hit did no damage. The M1A1 fired a 120mm armor-piercing round that penetrated the T-72 turret, causing an explosion that blew the turret into the air. The second T-72 fired another shaped-charge round, hit the frontal armor, and did no damage. This T-72 turned to run, and took a 120mm round in the engine compartment and blew the engine into the air. The last T-72 fired a solid shot (sabot) round from 400 meters. This left a groove in the M1A1's frontal armor and bounced off. The T-72 then backed up behind a sand berm and was completely concealed from view. The M1A1 depressed its gun and put a sabot round through the berm, into the T-72, causing an explosion. Link 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 11:13:04 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wittmann and his crew in a Konigstiger vs. a Saudi crew in an M1A2S. Go! Wittmann, Wittmann, Wittmann. Always with the f’n Wittmann. Kurt Knispel was the guy you didn’t want to be in the same county with. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 11:35:15 AM EDT
[#13]
Shoot
Move Communicate Abrams wins at all three. Heck, the Abrams could drive around until the Tigers ran out of gas and then shoot them at leisure. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 11:36:24 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Shoot Move Communicate Abrams wins at all three. Heck, the Abrams could drive around until the Tigers |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 11:38:44 AM EDT
[#15]
Hugo Primozic in his Stug
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 11:43:28 AM EDT
[#16]
If you raise the price of costco hotdogs the tank crew will kill themselves.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 11:50:34 AM EDT
[#17]
King Tiger armor hits (3:20)
 King Tiger Tank 213, La Gleize, the Ardenne, Belgium. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 11:58:43 AM EDT
[#18]
We should send our Abrams back in time, make the Germans surrender, and drive east to the Urals.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 12:03:00 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Depends if the Abrams has a loader that belongs in the tank or is struggling with the rounds trying to prove a political point. I understand that reference. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 12:13:41 PM EDT
[#20]
Not really relevant, but interesting if you want to see the closest you'll get to a German Tank Crew in a King Tiger. Game is Post Scriptum that my aging ass PC cant run.
 More accurate (not total) of a milsim than the Battlefield crap.  Post Scriptum - Tiger II Ambushes [GER Comms/ENG Subs] Vade and his crew have videos for every Kraut vehicle in that game including my personal favorite, the Stug. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 1:51:00 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 10-1. Daytime non pool table scenario? No we did not. Would tou take on those same odds with say a T-72 then? Just curious. Eagle troop came close to that and fought against dug in Armored and Mechanized forces during daylight operations. Any post war design is going to be markedly better than the KT in mobility, firepower, armor and fire control. Technology doesnt stand still, the KT is a beautiful tank, but flawed in execution and maturity. Effective HEAT tank rounds are just around the coner and will RHA largely obsolete in stopping tank rounds. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 1:52:08 PM EDT
[#22]
Absolutely, under very specific circumstances.
A tiger II with an 88mm/L71 could penetrate around 250mm of steel at point blank range. Ten inches. A point blank shot from behind in the engine deck would get you a mobility kill, cause a fire, and eventually kill the tank. Unless the tiger could shoot and scoot behind cover, the M1 probably would be able to pivot the turret and kill the tiger before the fire caused them to evacuate. I would say pretty good chance it could go through the back turret at point blank range. So an ambush from behind in an urban environment, its doable. Head to head, no chance whatsoever. The 88mm could not penetrate frontal or side armor. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 4:11:12 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Or forget to shoot. Or forget how to use it’s more advanced detection systems / optics Evidently the scenario is that a bunch of M1A crewman, heavily hung over and forgetting to use their optics or other sensors, get seen by a Tiger crew from a distance. The Tiger has all their buddies get on hilltops surrounding a maze of dikes just tall enough to trap the M1,s all twisting and turning so the M1s can't use their speed or mobility. The Tiger then leads the faster M1s into a trap, with the M1 crews driving slowly and carefully because of their headaches. When the M1s drive slowly in a straight line through the maze, under the guns of all of those tigers they never noticed, the Tigers will pick them off with perfect shots through the thermal exhaust port while the M1 crews wave their hands in fright and die. Since they forget to look around, communicate, or anything else; the Tigers win handily. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 6:00:38 PM EDT
[#24]
The 88mm gun is perfectly capable of destroying the M1, so long as you are shooting into the side. Whether a Tiger could destroy one in COMBAT is a different matter, and highly dependent on circumstances. If you're the Tiger crew you're going to want a short range ambush where you can get a side shot and the M1 is forced to move relatively slowly - urban area or such. In an open terrain (say, the desert), you're going to have a hard time staying alive long enough to get a shot off, and the M1 will be shooting on the move to make that even harder. But if you can get a hit from perpendicular to the side armor, it isn't even going to stop a 75mm from an M4 (Sherman), much less a high velocity 88mm.
Mike |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 6:36:08 PM EDT
[#25]
If it could close into gun-range before the transmission commits suicide, maybe.
The tiger tank was a piece of shit IMHO. The King Tiger even more so. "Our tank's transmission keeps burning out and it's a massive problem." "ADD A BIGGER GUN AND HEAVIER ARMOR." |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 7:24:04 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The 88mm gun is perfectly capable of destroying the M1, so long as you are shooting into the side. Whether a Tiger could destroy one in COMBAT is a different matter, and highly dependent on circumstances. If you're the Tiger crew you're going to want a short range ambush where you can get a side shot and the M1 is forced to move relatively slowly - urban area or such. In an open terrain (say, the desert), you're going to have a hard time staying alive long enough to get a shot off, and the M1 will be shooting on the move to make that even harder. But if you can get a hit from perpendicular to the side armor, it isn't even going to stop a 75mm from an M4 (Sherman), much less a high velocity 88mm. Mike Its marginal against the side armor. It can penetrate parts of the hull armor, given open source armor values, it can not penetrate the turret. That also doesnt take into account the reactive pannels that have become more common. The range it can penetrate rapidly falls off. I think people have a hard time understanding the improvements in armor that have taken place over the last 80 years. The same has happened with ammo construction. The 88 on the KT was a great armor penetrator for its day. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 7:42:42 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Now this is an interesting scenario. 10 Abrams vs. 100 King Tigers. Tigers will eventually swarm and kill them at a 10 to 1 ratio. Rational follows..... 1. The ability to use 120mm to maximum range possible terrain wise is not very likely or rarely ever seen. 2. Fire and maneuver. The Tigers will not be doing a simple frontal attack but rather using terrain to close distance while being overwatched. This attack will not be a turn based scenario. 3. Taking an individual tank out of the game does not have to be a catastrophic kill. It can be firepower (optics or gun), mobility, manpower, or communications as well. 4. A single vehicle taken out of fight by any one of the above methods exponentially increases number of threats they have to deal with rather quickly as well. 5. This is a simple tank on tank scenario. Throw in combined arms approach and things get dicey quick. ETA: Quantity has a quality all its own Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Fortunately the internet has answered this already.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOL00YjWbHINow this is an interesting scenario. 10 Abrams vs. 100 King Tigers. Tigers will eventually swarm and kill them at a 10 to 1 ratio. Rational follows..... 1. The ability to use 120mm to maximum range possible terrain wise is not very likely or rarely ever seen. 2. Fire and maneuver. The Tigers will not be doing a simple frontal attack but rather using terrain to close distance while being overwatched. This attack will not be a turn based scenario. 3. Taking an individual tank out of the game does not have to be a catastrophic kill. It can be firepower (optics or gun), mobility, manpower, or communications as well. 4. A single vehicle taken out of fight by any one of the above methods exponentially increases number of threats they have to deal with rather quickly as well. 5. This is a simple tank on tank scenario. Throw in combined arms approach and things get dicey quick. ETA: Quantity has a quality all its own How? I'm not a tanker, but I have played a whole lot of WoT, not that that confers any expertise, but anyway... From a manuverability standpoint coupled with enough armor, the KT's would be struggling to connect while the Abrams can shoot on the move at full speed. To ze Germans, it would look like the future tanks were being played in fast forward as the Germans lumbered around, and every shot from those M1's wouldn't just land a killing blow, it would be like a flyswatter, delivering an absolutely demoralizing blow from *FAR* beyond the distance that any gun in any German's experience has any business wrecking their best tanks at. Worse for ze Germans is that anywhere, and I mean ANYWHERE the M1 connects is a kill while the other way around, even multiple connections does not confer a kill, and coupled with modern targeting systems which allows the M1's to connect pinpoint, even right in the turret front, and kill the entire KT crew. Even worse for ze Germans is that M1 crews aren't fucking stupid and they would dump smoke and just go IR. The difference between King Tiger and an M1 is the same as a tribe of cavemen vs a fully kitted out Marine infantry squad. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 7:51:31 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: An 88 magnum? Does it shoot through schools? Only with a Loudener attached! |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 8:00:31 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not really relevant, but interesting if you want to see the closest you'll get to a German Tank Crew in a King Tiger. Game is Post Scriptum that my aging ass PC cant run. More accurate (not total) of a milsim than the Battlefield crap. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqyFYqrCMIoVade and his crew have videos for every Kraut vehicle in that game including my personal favorite, the Stug. Vade kicks ass! And it's slightly eerie to hear Germans operating Panzers and gunning down GIs with STG44s.... (My old computer couldn't touch PS or HLL. Got a new rig this year, and jumped in on HLL during the free weekend. Awesome game. Still want to try PS though. Cause of Vade.) |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 8:02:33 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wittmann, Wittmann, Wittmann. Always with the f’n Wittmann. Kurt Knispel was the guy you didn’t want to be in the same county with. And for this exercise, let's have Otto Carius leading the platoon, he seemed pretty top notch on figuring up the strategies and had unlimited patience waiting for the right shot at distance. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 8:03:37 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: With a golden bullet, sure. The real question is how many Tigers the Abrams kills before one manages to get in a position to fire said golden bullet. With modern fire on the fly systems, all of them. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 8:07:27 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Operation Desert Storm was the first conflict to see the extensive use of depleted uranium [DU] munitions and armor. The new DU rounds gave coalition forces a marked operational advantage. Unit histories from the Gulf War contain many anecdotes attesting to the effectiveness of DU "silver bullets," as they were called by US tankers. One armor brigade commander described looking on in "amazement" as his soldiers -- who in training had never fired at targets beyond 2,400 meters (1.5 miles) -- routinely scored first-shot kills on targets out to 3,000 meters (1.9 miles) and beyond. DU armor gained an equally impressive reputation. A Iraqi T-72 has an effective range of about 1,800 yards, while an M1's range is nearly twice that. A story illustrating DU's offensive and defensive renown involves an M1A1 "Heavy Armor" tank that had become mired in the mud. The unit (part of the 24th Infantry Division) had gone on, leaving this tank to wait for a recovery vehicle. Three T-72's appeared and attacked. The first fired from under 1,000 meters, scoring a hit with a shaped-charge (high explosive) round on the M1A1's frontal armor. The hit did no damage. The M1A1 fired a 120mm armor-piercing round that penetrated the T-72 turret, causing an explosion that blew the turret into the air. The second T-72 fired another shaped-charge round, hit the frontal armor, and did no damage. This T-72 turned to run, and took a 120mm round in the engine compartment and blew the engine into the air. The last T-72 fired a solid shot (sabot) round from 400 meters. This left a groove in the M1A1's frontal armor and bounced off. The T-72 then backed up behind a sand berm and was completely concealed from view. The M1A1 depressed its gun and put a sabot round through the berm, into the T-72, causing an explosion. Link https://i-com.cdn.gaijin.net/monthly_2019_03/du_hit.jpg.2ad3c7bcca7f3769930575d21562de20.jpg They were the enemy but I'll say this, at least they tried to fight it out. Also, it seems the Iraqi gunners were up to snuff scoring hits on the Abrams before they met Allah. That shot on the hull-down T-72 was awesome. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 8:09:56 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Operation Desert Storm was the first conflict to see the extensive use of depleted uranium [DU] munitions and armor. The new DU rounds gave coalition forces a marked operational advantage. Unit histories from the Gulf War contain many anecdotes attesting to the effectiveness of DU "silver bullets," as they were called by US tankers. One armor brigade commander described looking on in "amazement" as his soldiers -- who in training had never fired at targets beyond 2,400 meters (1.5 miles) -- routinely scored first-shot kills on targets out to 3,000 meters (1.9 miles) and beyond. DU armor gained an equally impressive reputation. A Iraqi T-72 has an effective range of about 1,800 yards, while an M1's range is nearly twice that. A story illustrating DU's offensive and defensive renown involves an M1A1 "Heavy Armor" tank that had become mired in the mud. The unit (part of the 24th Infantry Division) had gone on, leaving this tank to wait for a recovery vehicle. Three T-72's appeared and attacked. The first fired from under 1,000 meters, scoring a hit with a shaped-charge (high explosive) round on the M1A1's frontal armor. The hit did no damage. The M1A1 fired a 120mm armor-piercing round that penetrated the T-72 turret, causing an explosion that blew the turret into the air. The second T-72 fired another shaped-charge round, hit the frontal armor, and did no damage. This T-72 turned to run, and took a 120mm round in the engine compartment and blew the engine into the air. The last T-72 fired a solid shot (sabot) round from 400 meters. This left a groove in the M1A1's frontal armor and bounced off. The T-72 then backed up behind a sand berm and was completely concealed from view. The M1A1 depressed its gun and put a sabot round through the berm, into the T-72, causing an explosion. Link https://i-com.cdn.gaijin.net/monthly_2019_03/du_hit.jpg.2ad3c7bcca7f3769930575d21562de20.jpg M1A1: "Tis but a scratch" |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 8:24:06 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I scrolled though looking for a pic of a tiger 1 tank. the coolest looking tank from the front ever. The King tiger has a more modern look, it's OK. Most American soldiers thought panzer 4's were tigers. This, I believe tigers were only encountered by the western allies less than a half dozen times I believe. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 8:44:26 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Now this is an interesting scenario. 10 Abrams vs. 100 King Tigers. Tigers will eventually swarm and kill them at a 10 to 1 ratio. Rational follows..... 1. The ability to use 120mm to maximum range possible terrain wise is not very likely or rarely ever seen. 2. Fire and maneuver. The Tigers will not be doing a simple frontal attack but rather using terrain to close distance while being overwatched. This attack will not be a turn based scenario. 3. Taking an individual tank out of the game does not have to be a catastrophic kill. It can be firepower (optics or gun), mobility, manpower, or communications as well. 4. A single vehicle taken out of fight by any one of the above methods exponentially increases number of threats they have to deal with rather quickly as well. 5. This is a simple tank on tank scenario. Throw in combined arms approach and things get dicey quick. ETA: Quantity has a quality all its own  Attached File |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 9:01:27 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: An 88 magnum? Does it shoot through schools? this post made my day! 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 9:10:40 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryIf you say so
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 9:17:54 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No. However you are very lucky that so few RPG-29s were delivered to Iraq. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Tank on tank is boring. I want to know if a PIAT or a US bazooka (the little one, not the super-bazooka) could kill an Abrams. Not just knock a track off, but penetrate the hull. No. However you are very lucky that so few RPG-29s were delivered to Iraq. I think one of those holed one our Abrams. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 9:26:14 PM EDT
[#39]
Any medium or heavy tank from WW2 could take on a modern MBT with a rear or lucky side shot. Even the 2pdr or 37mm would probably pen from the rear if they were close enough.
From the front? No chance. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 10:00:21 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Its marginal against the side armor. It can penetrate parts of the hull armor, given open source armor values, it can not penetrate the turret. That also doesnt take into account the reactive pannels that have become more common. The range it can penetrate rapidly falls off. I think people have a hard time understanding the improvements in armor that have taken place over the last 80 years. The same has happened with ammo construction. The 88 on the KT was a great armor penetrator for its day. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The 88mm gun is perfectly capable of destroying the M1, so long as you are shooting into the side. Whether a Tiger could destroy one in COMBAT is a different matter, and highly dependent on circumstances. If you're the Tiger crew you're going to want a short range ambush where you can get a side shot and the M1 is forced to move relatively slowly - urban area or such. In an open terrain (say, the desert), you're going to have a hard time staying alive long enough to get a shot off, and the M1 will be shooting on the move to make that even harder. But if you can get a hit from perpendicular to the side armor, it isn't even going to stop a 75mm from an M4 (Sherman), much less a high velocity 88mm. Mike Its marginal against the side armor. It can penetrate parts of the hull armor, given open source armor values, it can not penetrate the turret. That also doesnt take into account the reactive pannels that have become more common. The range it can penetrate rapidly falls off. I think people have a hard time understanding the improvements in armor that have taken place over the last 80 years. The same has happened with ammo construction. The 88 on the KT was a great armor penetrator for its day. I was actually coming back to post that armor plating in 2021 has also changed a bit from armor in 1945. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 10:07:28 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The first time it ran into a Super Pershing the King Tiger lost. In town at the very end of the war. The Supe Pershing fired into a wall on corner that colapsed on the Tiger trapped it and the Super pershing killed it from the side. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: That's the King (Royal) Tiger. This has been discussed before and I believe it could. Not frontally of course. German armor from late in the war had shatter gap armor issues due to the armor not being properly face hardened. When a round would hit, the steel would shatter and break like glass. Example. See glance round caused the steel to fracture like glass.  Attached File |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 10:14:03 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: GD doesn’t read. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I think some of y'all are missing the point. OP isn't asking if a King Tiger could kill an Abrams in normal combat. He's asking if the 88mm gun is capable of knocking an Abrams out. GD doesn’t read. GD just wants to fantasize about something taking a projectile in the rear |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 11:13:44 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How's this mashup supposed to happen? Abrams goes back in time? Or does the Tiger show up in the present? Abrams in 1944......Tiger crew, "What the fuck is THAT!!" In German! Tiger in 2021.......how hard is it to maneuver a Tiger across Barret-Jackson's stage? Tiger's crew will be able to afford many gold bars off the sale of that thing. So the real fun is in the history angle. The 10 Abrams along with ammo and fuel logistical support adequate to provide 30 days or 1500 miles of combat duration and/or range encounters the Final Count Down storm that a Nuclear Aircraft Craft Carrier failed to exploit on Dec 7, 1941. The Abrams and logistics are transported to December 14, 1944. And appear next to General Pattons field headquarters. One of the crew members is a military historian on WWII. The storm wipes out all of his knowledge about the battle of the bulge that would start on Dec 16. He knows that it will start then and be a huge battle with many casualties but no other information is retained. General Patton comes out of his HQ and sees and hears these tanks pull to a stop and notices a US flag with a strange pattern of stars. He figures out it has 50 stars, when the tank commander and historian crew member exit separate tanks. Talks ensue. The Upcoming battle of the Bulge is revealed and the military historian asks Patton what if reincarnation can happen from the future as well as the past. Patton pulls out maps of Bastogne and roads to get there and calls in staff. What happens Next? |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 11:21:12 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Other than 1 or two guys that lack perspective and think they have sound reasoning, it's pretty obvious that 10 Abrams are going to pretty much wipe out the King Tigers in any likely scenario. Several Experienced men, historical men, and technically informed men all with good perspective have compiled relevant facts and presented them convincingly from multiple viewpoints. So the real fun is in the history angle. The 10 Abrams along with ammo and fuel logistical support adequate to provide 30 days or 1500 miles of combat duration and/or range encounters the Final Count Down storm that a Nuclear Aircraft Craft Carrier failed to exploit on Dec 7, 1941. The Abrams and logistics are transported to December 14, 1944. And appear next to General Pattons field headquarters. One of the crew members is a military historian on WWII. The storm wipes out all of his knowledge about the battle of the bulge that would start on Dec 16. He knows that it will start then and be a huge battle with many casualties but no other information is retained. General Patton comes out of his HQ and sees and hears these tanks pull to a stop and notices a US flag with a strange pattern of stars. He figures out it has 50 stars, when the tank commander and historian crew member exit separate tanks. Talks ensue. The Upcoming battle of the Bulge is revealed and the military historian asks Patton what if reincarnation can happen from the future as well as the past. Patton pulls out maps of Bastogne and roads to get there and calls in staff. What happens Next? Abrams pivots to the north and attacks into the Salient. Patton and the 10 Abrams tanks punch through the front across from them and drive straight to Berlin to kill that paper hanging son of a bitch.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 11:26:41 PM EDT
[#45]
Speaking of armor.
On 18 March 1944, the US Navy battleship USS IOWA (BB-61) joined in the bombardment of Mili Atoll in the Marshall Islands. Although struck by two Japanese 4.7-inch (120 mm) projectiles on the armored #2 Main Battery Turret, Iowa suffered negligible damage.  
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 11:34:27 PM EDT
[#46]
A better question is how many tanks and anti-tank guns are privately owned and operational in the United States that could get at least a mobility kill on a modern MBT.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 11:48:40 PM EDT
[#47]
 M829A4 APFSDS-T round with depleted-uranium penetrator  |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/12/2021 12:03:26 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A better question is how many tanks and anti-tank guns are privately owned and operational in the United States that could get at least a mobility kill on a modern MBT. Zero |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/12/2021 12:10:48 AM EDT
[#49]
America's King Tiger Killer, the Super Pershing
 America''s King Tiger KILLER, the Super Pershing | Cursed by Design |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/12/2021 12:11:58 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Zero Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: A better question is how many tanks and anti-tank guns are privately owned and operational in the United States that could get at least a mobility kill on a modern MBT. Zero FFW to 10:15. Looks capable of knocking off a track or two  WWII Tanks Firing in Slow Motion |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
