Posted: 12/30/2012 8:11:16 AM EDT
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So my 11yo son saw the girls on TV doing their competition and he wants to start.
I think I will set a little routine up and do it with him. I just got the kettlework work out and plan on doing that during the week and crossfit on Saturday with him. I plan on sinking some posts for a pull up bar, getting some old tires to flip and buying some heavy ropes. Should be fun. |
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Quoted: So my 11yo son saw the girls on TV doing their competition and he wants to start. I think I will set a little routine up and do it with him. I just got the kettlework work out and plan on doing that during the week and crossfit on Saturday with him. I plan on sinking some posts for a pull up bar, getting some old tires to flip and buying some heavy ropes. Should be fun. I've been Crossfitting for years, competitively and I am a trainer at my gym. Let me know if you have questions...I'd recommend finding someone that can help check form, find good programming, and be sure to incorporate heavy lifting too (heavy is relative of course, especially for an 11yo) as everyone should be squatting, deadlifting, and pressing regularly. |
| I would be very careful with your son lifting heavy and high intensity workouts like that. A trainer at a gym likely doesn't have the expertise to advise heavy lifting and high intensity workouts for somebody that young, nor would I feel it a good idea to. Even with my knowledge from physical therapy school, I would be hesitant to recommend heavy lifting and high intensity workouts like Crossfit. Can he do the lifts and exercises, sure, but it will be crucial that both of you have good form and when it comes to the boy I would scale back the weight percentages and intensity of the workouts for your son. With your son you have to remember that growth plates are still very present and relatively vulnerable. They should be stressed to grow BUT to a point. |
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Quoted: I would be very careful with your son lifting heavy and high intensity workouts like that. A trainer at a gym likely doesn't have the expertise to advise heavy lifting and high intensity workouts for somebody that young, nor would I feel it a good idea to. Even with my knowledge from physical therapy school, I would be hesitant to recommend heavy lifting and high intensity workouts like Crossfit. Can he do the lifts and exercises, sure, but it will be crucial that both of you have good form and when it comes to the boy I would scale back the weight percentages and intensity of the workouts for your son. With your son you have to remember that growth plates are still very present and relatively vulnerable. They should be stressed to grow BUT to a point. There's absolutely NO reason a kid can't lift "heavy" and do something high intensity like CF. With proper supervision and proper form he'll be totally fine. My kids do and we have quite a few kids at our gym that do too. |
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Quoted: It is always fun to workout with the kids. He did 6 weeks of insanity with me until my back was inflamed. He can flip tires, run with sand bags, do pull ups and do rope exercises. I like to keep him active and out of the house. Good! Don't listen to Kevin (sorry Kev, you're wrong on this one) and keep at it. I have a guy around 20 yo in one of the CF classes I teach that is so weak that he literally gets beat in workouts by women in their 60s...at the SAME WEIGHT. I'm not even exaggerating. We did 3x5 front squat and he was at like 65 pounds and struggling while the older ladies were at 75-85#. I blame the guys parents partially...he's at least trying to remedy it now, and I give him credit for that. This won't happen to your kid, (or mine) and that's the way it should be...
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My 55 pound 8 year old son does all the big lifts and conditioning. I don't push him as hard as I would an adult but it's more than just play time. He basically does the same 5/3/1 that I do, just scaled down to him. He absolutely loves it and will remind me we need to work out if I forget about it. He is what you would call an awkward, unathletic kid(he gets it honest ) and I see improvement every week. Its done him great.
Its funny though.....he will wine that 2 gallon jugs of water is to heavy to carry in but he can deadlift 75#s and carry 25# sandbags
Good on ya OP. Keep it fun and y'all will really enjoy yourselves  .
An old car hood is fun to drag around also if you have a spot to do it. |
| Sorry but I am pretty sure I have been trained more in pediatrics than most of you guys but you are free to tell me off because you apparently know more. Second, actually think about what I wrote. I said I would be careful about it and be hesitant in my recommendation. That isn't a flat out NO the kid shouldn't do it. There are a lot of variables to the situation, especially in consideration to the physiological development of somebody that young which is very variable itself. I would rather error on the side of caution with a kid. Gunguy seems to be seeing success scaling it down and not pushing the kid as hard, who would of thought! But go ahead and do whatever because ROG knows best and the end all expert. |
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I had always thought that conventional wisdom was to hold off on weight lifting (not resistacne training with calisthetics) until puberty. But a little research shows things have changed.
Strength Training for Children Is it safe for kids to lift weights? The answer from today’s top research authorities is a resounding “yes.” Studies show that a moderate intensity strength training program can help increase strength, decrease the risks of injury while playing sports, and increase bone density in children. Exercise physiologists aren’t the only ones recommending resistance training; the American Academy of Pediatrics has also put forth a pro-strength training for children statement. The American Academy of Pediatrics position on strength training supports the implementation of strength and resistance training programs, even for prepubescent children, that are monitored by well-trained adults and take into account the child’s maturation level. The only limitation the AAP suggests is to avoid repetitive maximal lifts (lifts that are one repetition maximum lifts or are within 2-3 repetitions of a one repetition maximum lift) until they have reached Tanner Stage 5 of developmental maturity. Tanner Stage 5 is the level in which visible secondary sex characteristics have been developed. Usually, in this stage adolescents will also have passed their period of maximal velocity of height growth |
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I had always thought that conventional wisdom was to hold off on weight lifting (not resistacne training with calisthetics) until puberty. But a little research shows things have changed. Strength Training for Children Is it safe for kids to lift weights? The answer from today’s top research authorities is a resounding “yes.” Studies show that a moderate intensity strength training program can help increase strength, decrease the risks of injury while playing sports, and increase bone density in children. Exercise physiologists aren’t the only ones recommending resistance training; the American Academy of Pediatrics has also put forth a pro-strength training for children statement. The American Academy of Pediatrics position on strength training supports the implementation of strength and resistance training programs, even for prepubescent children, that are monitored by well-trained adults and take into account the child’s maturation level. The only limitation the AAP suggests is to avoid repetitive maximal lifts (lifts that are one repetition maximum lifts or are within 2-3 repetitions of a one repetition maximum lift) until they have reached Tanner Stage 5 of developmental maturity. Tanner Stage 5 is the level in which visible secondary sex characteristics have been developed. Usually, in this stage adolescents will also have passed their period of maximal velocity of height growth FIFY to reflect the other crucial part of that write up. I will probably get slammed for this too but I would say that applies to anyone who just wants to get strong. If you want to get strong and explosive, it can be done without doing maximum lifts and/or to failure/fatigue. |
| Kevin- You may have "medical" training and advise peoples children not to lift and doctors advise people with medical problems not to exercise intensely, but I can link 50 videos of people with hip, knee, and spine injuries that overcame them with crossfit. soldiers who have lost both legs from the knee up and brain injuries all overcame their disabilities through crossfit. you may have medical training, but crossfit training is where you lack. sorry dude. |
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http://www.jtsstrength.com/articles/2011/09/14/super-child-part-i-early-childhood/
http://www.jtsstrength.com/articles/2011/10/24/youth-training-considerations-part-ii/ These articles are pretty good although very wordy. I don't really agree with his opening paragraph, but whatever. Transitional muscle fiber may, through training adaptation in pre-adolescents, assume permanent characteristics of white or red fiber. Due to the fact that the oxidative potential of type II muscle fiber may be increased in mature athletes, yet the shift from I to II is far less influential, it is logical that all pre-adolescents, regardless of genetic muscle fiber type proportionality, are optimally served by stressing alactic and aerobic training activities and reserving anaerobic-lactic loads for the proper biological stage of maturation when they can effectively tolerate them.
This is probably the biggest thing out of the article, if anyone has any more info on this they can share I would love to see it. |
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Kevin- You may have "medical" training and advise peoples children not to lift and doctors advise people with medical problems not to exercise intensely, but I can link 50 videos of people with hip, knee, and spine injuries that overcame them with crossfit. soldiers who have lost both legs from the knee up and brain injuries all overcame their disabilities through crossfit. you may have medical training, but crossfit training is where you lack. sorry dude. First off re-read what I wrote, I NEVER SAID CHILDREN SHOULD NOT LIFT, far from it. Second, maybe you should find out about my history before discrediting what I know about training. I'm sorry to have spoken out since you and others know crossfit and it is great that nobody else knows anything and even less so when they talk about crossfit in a *negative light - sorry to have offended your ignorance. |
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Quoted: Sorry but I am pretty sure I have been trained more in pediatrics than most of you guys but you are free to tell me off because you apparently know more. Second, actually think about what I wrote. I said I would be careful about it and be hesitant in my recommendation. That isn't a flat out NO the kid shouldn't do it. There are a lot of variables to the situation, especially in consideration to the physiological development of somebody that young which is very variable itself. I would rather error on the side of caution with a kid. Gunguy seems to be seeing success scaling it down and not pushing the kid as hard, who would of thought! But go ahead and do whatever because ROG knows best and the end all expert.  ah, yes, I always forget about all your formal training, meaning you know everything obviously. |
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Sorry but I am pretty sure I have been trained more in pediatrics than most of you guys but you are free to tell me off because you apparently know more. Second, actually think about what I wrote. I said I would be careful about it and be hesitant in my recommendation. That isn't a flat out NO the kid shouldn't do it. There are a lot of variables to the situation, especially in consideration to the physiological development of somebody that young which is very variable itself. I would rather error on the side of caution with a kid. Gunguy seems to be seeing success scaling it down and not pushing the kid as hard, who would of thought! But go ahead and do whatever because ROG knows best and the end all expert. ah, yes, I always forget about all your formal training, meaning you know everything obviously. Well, it isn't any different from you and your crossfit training. |
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Quoted: http://www.jtsstrength.com/articles/2011/09/14/super-child-part-i-early-childhood/ http://www.jtsstrength.com/articles/2011/10/24/youth-training-considerations-part-ii/ These articles are pretty good although very wordy. I don't really agree with his opening paragraph, but whatever. Transitional muscle fiber may, through training adaptation in pre-adolescents, assume permanent characteristics of white or red fiber. Due to the fact that the oxidative potential of type II muscle fiber may be increased in mature athletes, yet the shift from I to II is far less influential, it is logical that all pre-adolescents, regardless of genetic muscle fiber type proportionality, are optimally served by stressing alactic and aerobic training activities and reserving anaerobic-lactic loads for the proper biological stage of maturation when they can effectively tolerate them. This is probably the biggest thing out of the article, if anyone has any more info on this they can share I would love to see it. Interesting article. Sulmitsev (in Kurz’s Science of Sport Training) found that children in the age ranges of:
- Prof. Vladimir Koprivica (in his journal article Speed of Young Players) states that: "Speed of reaction and frequency of movements are abilities that are initially developed very early on, generally at the pre-school age, and very dynamically between 7 to 11 or 12 years of age. The basic reason for this is the fact that the parts of the nervous system concerned with speed and reactions are most formed during puberty. After this optimal growth period, the central nervous system is changed very little, and so the possibilities to influence speed of reaction and frequency of movement are very small.” ‘YOU CANNOT TEACH AN OLD DOG NEW TRICKS’The content of the final bullet point cannot be over emphasized. There is a sensitive window for speed-power related development that exists prior to and during the pubescent stage. The activities and training loads that youths are exposed to during those early years of biological of development are fundamental, and strongly correlated, to their attainable ceiling for human performance later in life. An athlete who was misguided during the pre-pubescent years cannot make up for lost time. So the saying goes "you cannot teach an old dog new tricks”. For this reason, the fastest and most explosive athletes have a life long history of speed related physical activity; regardless if it was structured in the scholastic environment. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Sorry but I am pretty sure I have been trained more in pediatrics than most of you guys but you are free to tell me off because you apparently know more. Second, actually think about what I wrote. I said I would be careful about it and be hesitant in my recommendation. That isn't a flat out NO the kid shouldn't do it. There are a lot of variables to the situation, especially in consideration to the physiological development of somebody that young which is very variable itself. I would rather error on the side of caution with a kid. Gunguy seems to be seeing success scaling it down and not pushing the kid as hard, who would of thought! But go ahead and do whatever because ROG knows best and the end all expert. ah, yes, I always forget about all your formal training, meaning you know everything obviously. Well, it isn't any different from you and your crossfit training. Sure it is. I never ever claim to know everything. I never blindly follow CF HQ (there's plenty of problems with CF). When I don't know something I say so. I never say "but guys, I have like, lots of formal training therefore I'm right and you're wrong". |
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Sorry but I am pretty sure I have been trained more in pediatrics than most of you guys but you are free to tell me off because you apparently know more. Second, actually think about what I wrote. I said I would be careful about it and be hesitant in my recommendation. That isn't a flat out NO the kid shouldn't do it. There are a lot of variables to the situation, especially in consideration to the physiological development of somebody that young which is very variable itself. I would rather error on the side of caution with a kid. Gunguy seems to be seeing success scaling it down and not pushing the kid as hard, who would of thought! But go ahead and do whatever because ROG knows best and the end all expert. ah, yes, I always forget about all your formal training, meaning you know everything obviously. Well, it isn't any different from you and your crossfit training. Sure it is. I never ever claim to know everything. I never blindly follow CF HQ (there's plenty of problems with CF). When I don't know something I say so. I never say "but guys, I have like, lots of formal training therefore I'm right and you're wrong". No you just tell me I'm wrong - "Don't listen to Kevin (sorry Kev, you're wrong on this one)". Per this thread here, I only said I would be cautious about it and that I didn't feel it necessary for the kid to lift heavy or do as high intensity of training. I never said the kid couldn't but no you flat out tell me I'm wrong because like you train people and stuff. |
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Look Kevin, your first post states that kids shouldn't be lifting and shouldn't be doing high intensity stuff. You then go on to say that he can do the movements but light. The point you were making isn't clear, and your history on here suggests that you are usually TOO cautious IMO. Bottom line is that kids can and SHOULD be lifting. It's good for them and there is minimal risk. Should they be doing maximal lifts? NO, absolutely not. Should they be squatting, deadlifting and pressing at scaled percentages? Absolutely yes- for many reasons noted in the articles posted. (note that I already said this in my first 2 posts that you objected to).
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Sorry but I am pretty sure I have been trained more in pediatrics than most of you guys but you are free to tell me off because you apparently know more. Second, actually think about what I wrote. I said I would be careful about it and be hesitant in my recommendation. That isn't a flat out NO the kid shouldn't do it. There are a lot of variables to the situation, especially in consideration to the physiological development of somebody that young which is very variable itself. I would rather error on the side of caution with a kid. Gunguy seems to be seeing success scaling it down and not pushing the kid as hard, who would of thought! But go ahead and do whatever because ROG knows best and the end all expert. ah, yes, I always forget about all your formal training, meaning you know everything obviously. Well, it isn't any different from you and your crossfit training. Sure it is. I never ever claim to know everything. I never blindly follow CF HQ (there's plenty of problems with CF). When I don't know something I say so. I never say "but guys, I have like, lots of formal training therefore I'm right and you're wrong". No you just tell me I'm wrong - "Don't listen to Kevin (sorry Kev, you're wrong on this one)". Per this thread here, I only said I would be cautious about it and that I didn't feel it necessary for the kid to lift heavy or do as high intensity of training. I never said the kid couldn't but no you flat out tell me I'm wrong because like you train people and stuff. Well, if you're wrong you're wrong. Iv'e been wrong before too, it's not that big of a deal you don't have to get so worked up over it. Kids should be lifting and doing high intensity stuff- note, like I said multiple times that heavy and high intensity are RELATIVE. ETA- looking back, we may actually agree but the wording of your first post isn't clear and you don't seem to grasp that "heavy" lifts are relative to the lifter...
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Look Kevin, your first post states that kids shouldn't be lifting and shouldn't be doing high intensity stuff. You then go on to say that he can do the movements but light. The point you were making isn't clear, and your history on here suggests that you are usually TOO cautious IMO. Bottom line is that kids can and SHOULD be lifting. It's good for them and there is minimal risk. Should they be doing maximal lifts? NO, absolutely not. Should they be squatting, deadlifting and pressing at scaled percentages? Absolutely yes- for many reasons noted in the articles posted. (note that I already said this in my first 2 posts that you objected to). Where in this do I say kids shouldn't be lifting??? I would be very careful with your son lifting heavy and high intensity workouts like that. A trainer at a gym likely doesn't have the expertise to advise heavy lifting and high intensity workouts for somebody that young, nor would I feel it a good idea to. Even with my knowledge from physical therapy school, I would be hesitant to recommend heavy lifting and high intensity workouts like Crossfit. Can he do the lifts and exercises, sure, but it will be crucial that both of you have good form and when it comes to the boy I would scale back the weight percentages and intensity of the workouts for your son. With your son you have to remember that growth plates are still very present and relatively vulnerable. They should be stressed to grow BUT to a point. No where in there did I say they shouldn't lift nor did I say light. I can't be much more clear because there are too many variables at this point to recommend more specifics. If you think my suggestions are too cautious, then fine, but you flat out tell me I'm wrong when I express them. From my experience as an athlete and a coach, cautious has worked very well for not only me but others I have coached to get faster and stronger. I've done the aggressive approaches and sure they work (I never said they don't) but not quite as well as my cautious approach. ETA - just saw your post above. We are agreeing for the most part. |
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Quoted: Right there seems to say that you wouldn't suggest heavy lifting. Perhaps I misinterpreted. Quoted: Look Kevin, your first post states that kids shouldn't be lifting and shouldn't be doing high intensity stuff. You then go on to say that he can do the movements but light. The point you were making isn't clear, and your history on here suggests that you are usually TOO cautious IMO. Bottom line is that kids can and SHOULD be lifting. It's good for them and there is minimal risk. Should they be doing maximal lifts? NO, absolutely not. Should they be squatting, deadlifting and pressing at scaled percentages? Absolutely yes- for many reasons noted in the articles posted. (note that I already said this in my first 2 posts that you objected to). Where in this do I say kids shouldn't be lifting??? A trainer at a gym likely doesn't have the expertise to advise heavy lifting and high intensity workouts for somebody that young, nor would I feel it a good idea to. No where in there did I say they shouldn't lift nor did I say light. I can't be much more clear because there are too many variables at this point to recommend more specifics. If you think my suggestions are too cautious, then fine, but you flat out tell me I'm wrong when I express them. From my experience as an athlete and a coach, cautious has worked very well for not only me but others I have coached to get faster and stronger. I've done the aggressive approaches and sure they work (I never said they don't) but not quite as well as my cautious approach. Cautious is fine, but there is such a thing as overcautious as well. |
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Right there seems to say that you wouldn't suggest heavy lifting. Perhaps I misinterpreted. Quoted:
Look Kevin, your first post states that kids shouldn't be lifting and shouldn't be doing high intensity stuff. You then go on to say that he can do the movements but light. The point you were making isn't clear, and your history on here suggests that you are usually TOO cautious IMO. Bottom line is that kids can and SHOULD be lifting. It's good for them and there is minimal risk. Should they be doing maximal lifts? NO, absolutely not. Should they be squatting, deadlifting and pressing at scaled percentages? Absolutely yes- for many reasons noted in the articles posted. (note that I already said this in my first 2 posts that you objected to). Where in this do I say kids shouldn't be lifting??? A trainer at a gym likely doesn't have the expertise to advise heavy lifting and high intensity workouts for somebody that young, nor would I feel it a good idea to. No where in there did I say they shouldn't lift nor did I say light. I can't be much more clear because there are too many variables at this point to recommend more specifics. If you think my suggestions are too cautious, then fine, but you flat out tell me I'm wrong when I express them. From my experience as an athlete and a coach, cautious has worked very well for not only me but others I have coached to get faster and stronger. I've done the aggressive approaches and sure they work (I never said they don't) but not quite as well as my cautious approach. Cautious is fine, but there is such a thing as overcautious as well.
That line, yea I can see how it could be taken differently but AGAIN, READ ALL that I wrote. Yes, there is something such as over cautious and by many people's views around here I'm sure my comments are seen as such. Like I said, from experience (not formal training) I have seen it work to get stronger and faster. I think Crossfit is great in many ways and for somebody that is looking to have a bit everything - strength, speed, explosiveness, stamina, and endurance it can do that. There are some things that I feel it goes way overboard. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Right there seems to say that you wouldn't suggest heavy lifting. Perhaps I misinterpreted. Quoted: Look Kevin, your first post states that kids shouldn't be lifting and shouldn't be doing high intensity stuff. You then go on to say that he can do the movements but light. The point you were making isn't clear, and your history on here suggests that you are usually TOO cautious IMO. Bottom line is that kids can and SHOULD be lifting. It's good for them and there is minimal risk. Should they be doing maximal lifts? NO, absolutely not. Should they be squatting, deadlifting and pressing at scaled percentages? Absolutely yes- for many reasons noted in the articles posted. (note that I already said this in my first 2 posts that you objected to). Where in this do I say kids shouldn't be lifting??? A trainer at a gym likely doesn't have the expertise to advise heavy lifting and high intensity workouts for somebody that young, nor would I feel it a good idea to. No where in there did I say they shouldn't lift nor did I say light. I can't be much more clear because there are too many variables at this point to recommend more specifics. If you think my suggestions are too cautious, then fine, but you flat out tell me I'm wrong when I express them. From my experience as an athlete and a coach, cautious has worked very well for not only me but others I have coached to get faster and stronger. I've done the aggressive approaches and sure they work (I never said they don't) but not quite as well as my cautious approach. Cautious is fine, but there is such a thing as overcautious as well. That line, yea I can see how it could be taken differently but AGAIN, READ ALL that I wrote. Yes, there is something such as over cautious and by many people's views around here I'm sure my comments are seen as such. Like I said, from experience (not formal training) I have seen it work to get stronger and faster. I think Crossfit is great in many ways and for somebody that is looking to have a bit everything - strength, speed, explosiveness, stamina, and endurance it can do that. There are some things that I feel it goes way overboard. Yes, I did...but it seemed contradictory...anyways I won't beat a dead horse with that. I do feel like you're overcautious with some stuff, squatting is one IIRC, but I could be mistaken. You're right about CF, and that is exactly what it's good for, and you're also right that they do go overboard with some stuff. I won't argue otherwise.
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I'll admit I approach things differently than many here and many conventional thinking and that is part of the problem people have with me here. Yes, by many here I am very conservative with leg lifts in general - squats, DLs, power lifts. That's fine if you feel them overly cautious, I simply offer another way to do things and have found it quite effective training those who want to sprint faster, jumper further, and get more explosive.
I am cautious here also because far too often I see bone heads in the gym using shitty form using too much weight, especially father/son pairs. |
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Quoted: I'll admit I approach things differently than many here and many conventional thinking and that is part of the problem people have with me here. Yes, by many here I am very conservative with leg lifts in general - squats, DLs, power lifts. That's fine if you feel them overly cautious, I simply offer another way to do things and have found it quite effective training those who want to sprint faster, jumper further, and get more explosive. I am cautious here also because far too often I see bone heads in the gym using shitty form using too much weight, especially father/son pairs. True, but I'm not going to tell people not to squat just because they might go about it wrong... as far as power/explosiveness goes powerlifting isn't the best for that, I agree (though I'd still argue just about everyone needs to be doing it in one form or another) Olympic lifting pretty much shows the best results for explosiveness anyways. |
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Welcome.
If possible, go to an affiliate. If not, see below The first thing I would do is start watching lots of videos of the various exercises and mimicking them with a PVC pipe, and reading the CrossFit FAQ and the "Start Here" headings on their mainpage. There is also a link for exercise demos and substitutions (This is on the top left of the website) http://crossfit.com/ Second, I would scale following the BrandX scaled WOD's http://www.crossfitbrandx.com/index.php/forums/viewforum/16/ Finally, feel free to sign up on the CrossFit board and ask questions there. http://board.crossfit.com/ And, there is a CrossFit kids website, you may want to check it out in regards to your 11 year old's WOD's http://www.crossfitkids.com/ If you have any questions, as always, you can also ask here. |
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OP - some heavy stuff in here LOL. Glad you found some helpful info.
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I'll admit I approach things differently than many here and many conventional thinking and that is part of the problem people have with me here. Yes, by many here I am very conservative with leg lifts in general - squats, DLs, power lifts. That's fine if you feel them overly cautious, I simply offer another way to do things and have found it quite effective training those who want to sprint faster, jumper further, and get more explosive. I am cautious here also because far too often I see bone heads in the gym using shitty form using too much weight, especially father/son pairs. True, but I'm not going to tell people not to squat just because they might go about it wrong... as far as power/explosiveness goes powerlifting isn't the best for that, I agree (though I'd still argue just about everyone needs to be doing it in one form or another) Olympic lifting pretty much shows the best results for explosiveness anyways. I agree Olympic type lifts are best for explosiveness as they focus on heavy resistance done very quickly, or attempt to. We should probably further clarify our definitions of power lifts. Power lifts to me include Olympic lifts, just how I have been accustomed when talking with others since power = strength x speed. You need both! |
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Quoted: OP - some heavy stuff in here LOL. Glad you found some helpful info. Quoted: Quoted: I'll admit I approach things differently than many here and many conventional thinking and that is part of the problem people have with me here. Yes, by many here I am very conservative with leg lifts in general - squats, DLs, power lifts. That's fine if you feel them overly cautious, I simply offer another way to do things and have found it quite effective training those who want to sprint faster, jumper further, and get more explosive. I am cautious here also because far too often I see bone heads in the gym using shitty form using too much weight, especially father/son pairs. True, but I'm not going to tell people not to squat just because they might go about it wrong... as far as power/explosiveness goes powerlifting isn't the best for that, I agree (though I'd still argue just about everyone needs to be doing it in one form or another) Olympic lifting pretty much shows the best results for explosiveness anyways. I agree Olympic type lifts are best for explosiveness as they focus on heavy resistance done very quickly, or attempt to. We should probably further clarify our definitions of power lifts. Power lifts to me include Olympic lifts, just how I have been accustomed when talking with others since power = strength x speed. You need both! Well...yeah, that's true but power lifts by regular definition = bench, deadlift and back squat. Oly = snatch and clean & jerk, and are by TRUE definition more powerful than the powerlifts... |
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OP - some heavy stuff in here LOL. Glad you found some helpful info. Quoted:
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I'll admit I approach things differently than many here and many conventional thinking and that is part of the problem people have with me here. Yes, by many here I am very conservative with leg lifts in general - squats, DLs, power lifts. That's fine if you feel them overly cautious, I simply offer another way to do things and have found it quite effective training those who want to sprint faster, jumper further, and get more explosive. I am cautious here also because far too often I see bone heads in the gym using shitty form using too much weight, especially father/son pairs. True, but I'm not going to tell people not to squat just because they might go about it wrong... as far as power/explosiveness goes powerlifting isn't the best for that, I agree (though I'd still argue just about everyone needs to be doing it in one form or another) Olympic lifting pretty much shows the best results for explosiveness anyways. I agree Olympic type lifts are best for explosiveness as they focus on heavy resistance done very quickly, or attempt to. We should probably further clarify our definitions of power lifts. Power lifts to me include Olympic lifts, just how I have been accustomed when talking with others since power = strength x speed. You need both! Well...yeah, that's true but power lifts by regular definition = bench, deadlift and back squat. Oly = snatch and clean & jerk, and are by TRUE definition more powerful than the powerlifts... They should be redefined - work lifts and speed lifts or strength lifts and speed lifts. Where do you put power cleans, hang cleans, hang snatch, jump squats, etc? |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: OP - some heavy stuff in here LOL. Glad you found some helpful info. Quoted: Quoted: I'll admit I approach things differently than many here and many conventional thinking and that is part of the problem people have with me here. Yes, by many here I am very conservative with leg lifts in general - squats, DLs, power lifts. That's fine if you feel them overly cautious, I simply offer another way to do things and have found it quite effective training those who want to sprint faster, jumper further, and get more explosive. I am cautious here also because far too often I see bone heads in the gym using shitty form using too much weight, especially father/son pairs. True, but I'm not going to tell people not to squat just because they might go about it wrong... as far as power/explosiveness goes powerlifting isn't the best for that, I agree (though I'd still argue just about everyone needs to be doing it in one form or another) Olympic lifting pretty much shows the best results for explosiveness anyways. I agree Olympic type lifts are best for explosiveness as they focus on heavy resistance done very quickly, or attempt to. We should probably further clarify our definitions of power lifts. Power lifts to me include Olympic lifts, just how I have been accustomed when talking with others since power = strength x speed. You need both! Well...yeah, that's true but power lifts by regular definition = bench, deadlift and back squat. Oly = snatch and clean & jerk, and are by TRUE definition more powerful than the powerlifts... They should be redefined - work lifts and speed lifts or strength lifts and speed lifts. Where do you put power cleans, hang cleans, hang snatch, jump squats, etc? Maybe so, but thats the way the sport is defined. All the various types of cleans and snatches are variations of the Olympic lifts, jump squats would be accessory work IMO.
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