[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Dam Cops! (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 8/13/2008 9:18:18 AM EDT
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Guess who I got to talk to on the Hoover Dam? The Homeland Security po-po! They pulled me over to an inspection lane as I was coming up to the check point on the Nevada side because I passed a mini van on the double yellow going around a curve as I was approching the check point. It was a stupid move on my part, but the mini van had been riding his brakes, going below the speed limit while rubber necking at the scenery, and just generally driving like a dipshit while he's ooohhing and aawwwwing at the scenery. So I passed him and when I got around him I'm now at the check point and there's 6-10 cops looking at me. DOH! I got off the bike and one of the cops came over and told me to get back on and put the side stand up. The first thing he asked me was "Do you have any weapons?" The cop got pretty excited when I answered "yes". He then asked me where it was and I pointed to my left breast and told him I had a pistol in my jacket pocket. Then he wanted to know if I had a concealed carry permit. I handed him my license and CCW permit. While inspecting my license and permit, he was shocked that my CCW card didn't tell him what gun I was carrying. I had to explain to him that the gun doesn't have a permit, I do. I can carry any gun I choose. He asked what kind of gun it was. I told him it was a 40 caliber pistol. He responds with " What kind of 40 caliber?" I asked him "What do you mean what kind? There's only one kind, a 40 S&W caliber." He comes back with " No, I mean what kind?" I asked him "Do you mean what brand?" He says "Yes, who made it?" I told him "Kahr." That resulted in a blank look from him so I spelled it out"K-A-H-R". I guess if its anything other than a Glock or Smith & Wesson, it's greek to this guy. The cop asked me if it was registered. When I told him there IS no gun registration in this country, he said "Well, I guess I can't find out anything about it if it's not registered." I didn't tell him he could find out if it's been reported stolen if he called in the serial number. I didn't want him to think I knew more about his job than him, just because I apparently do. So he's not sure what he should do at this point and calls his supervisor on the radio. While we were waiting for the supervisor to show up, he asked "Why are you carrying a gun anyway?" I just looked at him and didn't say anything, but he got the idea pretty quickly that I thought that was the most stupid question I have heard lately because he jumped in with, "I'm just curious. I've never seen a guy on a motorcycle carrying a gun before." To myself I said, "Well dumbass, if it's concealed, how would you know?" Out loud I answered flatly "I carry a gun for self defense and because it's my right as a citizen." I still didn't know at this point if they were going to write me a ticket for the passing violation or I would have told him something snappy like "I carry a gun because a cop won't fit in my holster." I didn't think he would find that as funny as I do. Then the supervisor showed up and the cop told him what was going on, he just said, "Okay." That was it, just "Okay." Then the supervisor asked me "What were you doing in Las Vegas? Just hanging out for a couple days?" If they had already written the ticket, I would have been tempted to tell him "I never said I was in Las Vegas", but since I was still in that limbo state between going on my way or getting a citation, I told him "I was visiting my elderly mother at the Disabled American Veterans Convention." I thought that sounded better than drugs, hookers and gambling. Then he asked me if I was in the Army. I guess the "US Army Retired" sticker he was pointing to on my bike gave him clue. Then he asked me what size engine my bike had. All really pertinant questions. I was getting a little irritated at this point. It's over 90 degrees, I've been there for 15-20 minutes, it's getting hotter by the minute, and I'm roasting in full riding gear. After our little chit chat about everything under the sun, they let me go. As I was gathering up my helmet and gloves, I grabbed my jacket to zip it up the last 6 inches and the cop says to me "Don't reach for that gun! It's the worst thing you can do." I just laughed at him and said " Mind if I put on my safety gear before I leave?" Oh yeah, they never saw a gun. He never even felt my jacket to see if it was really there. If I had another pistol in my pants pocket, I could have had my finger on the trigger and he would have been blissfully ignorant and at ease thinking I was getting my keys. I feel so much better knowing this guy's out there protecting us from terrorists trying to blow up the dam. |
The cop standing at the greeting booth that told me to pull into the inspection lane. I was guilty as hell. 
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Don't be so hard on them- they're our superiors and they make sure they got home safely at night.
Should have looked him in they eye and said: "Skin it, skin that smokewagon and just see what I'll do..." I bet his mouth breathin' GED edumecated ass would have shit all over his size 46 XL pants. RR |
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Hmmm. You admittedly were in the wrong by passing across a double yellow line, got pulled over, questioned about your CCW, got let off without a ticket and you are pissed? Not every cop is intimately familiar with local or State CCW laws or guns (especially if they were Federal LEOs). To many LEOs guns are just s tool necessary for their job. No more or less than a stethoscope is for a Paramedic. I would not expect a Medic to get into a discussion as to which scope is best, imported or domestic, pre or post acoustic ban, etc. Same goes for guns and LEOs. Instead of getting pissed why not educate? If they were Federal LEOs there's a good chance that they're originally from a non CCW State. Why not educate them on local CCW instead of giving attitude? Being a polite CCW owner puts all of us in a good light in the eyes of the LEOs.Will it necessarily change their attitude towards CCW? Maybe, maybe not but a pissy attitude will most definitely not. |
Where exactly did I say I was pissed? I think I did educate him a bit. He now knows several more things than he did when he got out of bed that morning. 1. He knows a CCW doesn't have the weapon on it. 2. He knows there are gun makes other than the one the government gave him. 3. He knows why (somewhat) law abiding citizens carry guns. Now go put some salve on your chapped ass.  |
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Let me make sure I have this: 1. You pass on a double yellow, violating the law; 2. You didn't get a ticket; 3. You had a polite conversation with two gentlemen who don't know much about guns or gun laws; but 4. You are pissed because they detained you; 5. It was hot; 6. The first officer may not have known firearm laws (did it occur to you that he might have known the law but was rattling your cage to see if you'd flip out?) 7. People don't have a proper reverence for a Kahr, and 8. They didn't give you free lemonade with the free pass on the ticket.  |
This always amazes me. The only thing more humorous is when someone tells me their gun is registered. |
The tone of your post says it all. |
Good God, at least half the people I know who ride motorcycles carry guns, I've been riding and carrying for 30 years. What fucking planet did this moron come from? The guy would have a freaking heart attack in Sturgis or Laughlin. Oh, and I'm firmly convinced half the people on this board know more about US gun laws than 3/4 of the cops in this country. Sorry to those LEO's reading this, but I've run into more cops in this country who either think it's illegal for us lowly non LEO's to carry guns, or who think that there's a national gun registration scheme, than you can shake a stick at.
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Those guys are complete joke. For some reason they believe that they are police instead of being the true glorified security officers they are. I've had several dealings with those ass clowns. For whats its worth, the guy did sound like he was trying to do his job, he didn't handcuff you, threaten to impound your bike, shoot your dog etc etc. So it could have been a bad encounter, like him pulling you out of the car, telling you point blank you will respect my authority because I'm an officer, don't call me bud call me sir or officer....... and then when he finds out you're a police officer (a real one) he cuts you loose and then calls your dept to file an IAB complaint on you for being unprofessional. BTW he has the conversation recorded, but what he is saying to you is taped over.......I'm just saying. |
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Wow, for one the officer should have detained you and seized the firearm until he confirmed that you were licensed to carry first for his safety. Plus, they should be familiar with local firearms laws. You did the right thing the whole way through though. Of course you know they were trying to chit chat with you to get you to say something they could use against ya to give them probable cause to arrest ya. Get ya comfortable and talking and then they've got ya. |
And had he been searched he would be here ranting about how his rights were violated. |
Bingo! They often times feign ignorance in an attempt to trip you up. Same goes for the general "chit chat" about the gun, motorcycle, etc. They're looking for signs of nervousness, evasion, inconsistencies, lies etc.. Don't underestimate them and assume anything. |
I didn't read it as the OP saying he wanted to be searched, but rather as an example of how unprofessional they were. Any officer worth his salt would upon hearing that a man is armed seize the weapon and detain the individual until after he could inspect the CCW license and confirm that the man was not illegally carrying a firearm. |
"Dam Cops!!!" Dam: A barrier constructed to contain the flow of water or to keep out the sea Damn: Expletive used informally as intensifier |
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That's pretty funny. Not accurate at all, but funny. 
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 You obviously don't know what I do for a living.Here are two tips to avoid these pesky encounters and never again be forced to endure a polite conversation. 1. Obey the law/don't invite the man into your life; 2. Stop talking (seriously STFU when you have an encounter with the Police) and say "Sir, may I please be on my way; or am I being detained?" You have described a voluntary encounter with the police. You, and your failure to follow the two steps above, are the only reasons you had to stand in the hot hot sun. |
Sounds pretty damn close to me. Or were you just a lot tougher sounding on Arfcom than you were on the side of the road? |
+1 It did sound like you were totally treating this guy like he was a complete dumbass, and I was actually shocked when you didn't get a ticket after all was said and done. ...not saying that's how you treated him, but that's what the post sounded like. |
That's the feeling I got based on his post. However, if I'm wrong, I stand corrected... I always follow this policy: Never give them an excuse to invite themselves into your life. Be polite (especially if you got caught violating the law) Answers should be cordial, but short and sweet. No more conversation than absolutely necessary. Never volunteer any information. |
I suspect this was closer to the truth. Since the OP passed the smell/attitude test, they gave him a break for delaying him, and let him go without a ticket. |
If you go back and reread my original post, you will see that what I was thinking and what I said are clearly worlds apart. I thought I clearly differentiated between my actions and my thoughts, but apparently not. I didn't tell the guy he was a dumbass, but sure was thinking it. Just because I think someone is a total idiot doesn't mean I respond in a manner that has zero pay off for me. There was no pay off in me talking shit to the cop. But there's zero risk in thinking it. In my estimation, telling the guy he was out of line in questioning why I carry a gun was not the smart way to handle it. Instead, I was very matter of fact in answering his question, but he knew he hit a nerve when he asked me that and I just looked at him. All I said to the cops was: 1. Yes, I know I passed on the double yellow. 2. Yes, I have a gun and it's right here. 3. Yes, I have a CCW. 4. The CCW has nothing to do with the firearm. 5. No, the gun is not registered. There is no gun registration in this country. 7. It's made by Kahr. (Long pause) K-A-H-R. 6. I carry a gun for self defense and because it's my right. 7. I was in Las Vegas visiting my mother. 8. Yes, I am retired Army. According to some of the experts here I should have told them fuck off after question #3, and that would have been acting like a dick. Edited to add some late arriving thoughts. |
Sure sounded like a traffic stop to me - a bit unorthodox, but a detention for a traffic violation. Brian |
Its no different that running your driver's license or plate to check and see that its not suspended, forged or the car is stolen. However, I don't necessarily agree with the seizing of the weapon part. That would depend on the individual's attitude or demeanor. |
Yeah, you're probably right but, kinda both huh? It seems like it may have started as a traffic stop but then turned into a chat about tiny pistols kept in pockets instead of holsters. We'll never know since he never asked if he was free to go.  |
I wasn't free to go at that time. We were waiting for his supervisor to arrive when all the gun questions were asked. I suppose after the supervisor arrived and said the gun totin' was okay, I could have asked to go, but I was lulled into answering all the sneaky questions with the ulterior motives behind each and every one of them. Somehow I didn't end up in the pen after getting tripped up answering those expert interrogators questions. Or maybe it's because there were no crimes commited except an illegal pass. I dunno.
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I'm not trying to pick on you, but unless you asked, you do not know. |
Agreed, but there's always a flip-side. The LEO can just as easily say "No! Not until we confirm your Driver's license, registration and issue you a citation", which is well within the stated purpose for the initial stop and detention. You have to weigh the pros and cons of doing so based on the tone of the conversation.. The LEO can only detain you for what SCOTUS has said is a "reasonable" amount of time for adjudication of the violation you were pulled over for. That means the time it takes to run the license for wants and warrants, the registration and the insurance for validity. Although SCOTUS didn't give a definitive time, 20 minutes is considered the norm |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Dam Cops! (Page 1 of 2)
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