User Panel
Quoted: M27 replaced the M249 in the fire team in 2010 and eventually all the M16 and M4s as well. We're 13 years into this little experiment w/ no organic belt-fed at the basic team level. How's it going? I know the Army hasn't followed suite. Is it the mistake everyone said it would be and something will come along to supplement the all-M27 equipped team or are the Marines ahead of the curve? ETA: Current US Marine squad: https://static.wixstatic.com/media/a137e0_d70863f38f214180a619a2cc3a5c28c7~mv2.png/v1/fill/w_398,h_498,al_c,q_85,usm_0.33_1.00_0.00,enc_auto/Future%20USMC%20Squad-01.png And current US Army squad: https://static.wixstatic.com/media/a137e0_5565feb8eb7b483a82a151213d5fca65~mv2.png/v1/fill/w_390,h_490,al_c,q_85,usm_0.33_1.00_0.00,enc_auto/NEW%20US%20Army%20Rifle%20Squad-01.png View Quote I would expect that a lot fewer captured PKMs and belts are going to be making their way to the rear. |
|
You’re going to want belt feds in the jungles, that is for sure.
|
|
Has it already been 13 years since the M27 was adopted? Holy cow, it seems like that was an active discussion here just a few months ago. Time is going by way too fast these days.
As for OP question, I am interested to hear the responses. |
|
I had a conversation with an experienced Vietnam vet a few years ago. "Things start going your way when the beltfeds start."
|
|
Volume of fire denies the enemy the ability to maneuver. If you can pin them down, air support or arty can do the rest. In the event of a near peer conflict they will regret this decision.
|
|
Asked my son who was a 0311 from 2013 to 2017 and he says the Saws were so clapped out and unreliable they were not missed.
That's one grunts opinion, this old grunt says a mag fed wpn cannot replace a belt fed wpn. Sometimes you need to gain fire superiority. How come the U.S. hates drum mags ? They are a bitch to hump and make noise but maybe a decent compromise? |
|
I’ve casually talked about this with two different experienced GWOT-era Marine infantry guys and they both thought it was a good change.
Their opinion was that increased speed and mobility of the rifle squad was worth the reduction in firepower. Truly light infantry I guess. |
|
Hard to gain fire superiority without a belt fed to lay suppressive fire. 30 rounds is gonna go pretty fast in the use.
|
|
|
I might be biased, but I think it was a poor choice. The mobility angle seems far fetched. When you start looking at all the add ons the m27 is getting pretty heavy itself. Sustained belt fed fire can be pretty effective at facilitating movement too.
|
|
How many 240s are in the weapons platoon and are attached out to the rifle platoons?
|
|
|
I’m guessing that “maneuver” part of the equation is cheaper.
|
|
I have little doubt that they will eventually re-adopt a belt fed for the fireteams. Whether it's going to be an older system or something new like the Sig or the KAC will remain to be seen.
|
|
Quoted: I might be biased, but I think it was a poor choice. The mobility angle seems far fetched. When you start looking at all the add ons the m27 is getting pretty heavy itself. Sustained belt fed fire can be pretty effective at facilitating movement too. View Quote My thought as well. I wonder if the combined rate of a fire team is now more, less, or the same since the adoption of the M27. |
|
|
|
|
Quoted: Asked my son who was a 0311 from 2013 to 2017 and he says the Saws were so clapped out and unreliable they were not missed. That's one grunts opinion, this old grunt says a mag fed wpn cannot replace a belt fed wpn. Sometimes you need to gain fire superiority. How come the U.S. hates drum mags ? They are a bitch to hump and make noise but maybe a decent compromise? View Quote If they were clapped out, that doesn’t mean the weapon system sucks, it just means they’re worn and need to go back for depot-level maintenance/rebuild. I don’t l know about the SAW, but Shrikes need new piston rod springs and extractors periodically if you actually shoot them. Also, I thought SAWs were still available for use at the company commander’s discretion? Did that change? |
|
|
|
Quoted:
This is the shit right here. Sig Fury .277 with a 16" barrel smokes everything else with a longer barrel. https://cdn-bjekh.nitrocdn.com/fBAuxVeMPubiNczggfkZcthToPByJOXU/assets/static/optimized/rev-59d27d9/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/XM250.jpg https://www.recoilweb.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/SIG-Fury-stats-1536x1107.jpg https://mcarbo.americommerce.com/.Blog%20Pages%20Images/277%20Fury%20Ballistics%20Chart/277-fury-ballistics-chart.jpg View Quote Are the Marines adopting it as well? |
|
Interesting. I was in when they were introduced. They were stone cold reliable and welcomed. You can’t run the piss out and f something for 30 years and still expect perfection. Buy some replacements.
As for the .277. Nope. Commonality of ammo is important at the squad level. Everywhere really, but especially in the squad. |
|
Quoted: If they were clapped out, that doesn’t mean the weapon system sucks, it just means they’re worn and need to go back for depot-level maintenance/rebuild. I don’t l know about the SAW, but Shrikes need new piston rod springs and extractors periodically if you actually shoot them. Also, I thought SAWs were still available for use at the company commander’s discretion? Did that change? View Quote That sounds exactly like the 249s we had in my guard units from '02-'08. Needed a depot level rework or scrap and new replacement. |
|
Quoted:
Interesting. I was in when they were introduced. They were stone cold reliable and welcomed. You can’t run the piss out and f something for 30 years and still expect perfection. Buy some replacements. As for the .277. Nope. Commonality of ammo is important at the squad level. Everywhere really, but especially in the squad. View Quote |
|
I was an 0351 when we went from M60 to the SAW. So, if I remember correctly, we had an M60 per squad, that the SAW replaced.
I liked both of them. Carrying either the 60 or the SAW sucked ass because that was in addition to whatever components of the weapon system we were carrying in WPNS Plt (my case, Dragon). I remember the 60 was only slightly better to hump than the SAW. |
|
|
The last year or so I was in, I was an AR in the phasing between the 60 and the 240. If we didn't have the pig up and running on one or both ends of most any position or maneuver, EVERYONE looked at me (and the 249) and I was happy to help push heads down. Unfortunately with the pig(s), it was quite often that I had eyes on me.
I had no problem with it and could see it's utility in many applications. I loved the platform except for humping the ammo along with it (but I'd been an AG in a rotation, so it was STILL lighter than the extra 60 rounds/tripod/barrel...) and I kept it in tip-top shape. I knew where/when to run whatever dry and where/when to run whatever lubed. That being said, I can't imagine what condition it was in 20 years later, especially in the hands of someone who didn't value it. |
|
I killed the fuck out of a Toyota hi-lux technical with a 249!
Properly maintained, the 249 was a killing machine! 18Z50 |
|
Its all fun and games until the enemy has belt feds, and you dont.
|
|
I was a SAW gunner for a time and they were worn out 20 years ago.
In the defense (a position we haven’t really been in, in decades) or supporting an assault there is nothing a belt fed. I don’t know that the SAW is the answer but a let fed machine gun of some kind is. |
|
Quoted: Interesting. I was in when they were introduced. They were stone cold reliable and welcomed. You can’t run the piss out and f something for 30 years and still expect perfection. Buy some replacements. As for the .277. Nope. Commonality of ammo is important at the squad level. Everywhere really, but especially in the squad. View Quote We had an M2 in Iraq that would only fire one shot at a time. An armorer came out and said the bitch dated back to WW2. |
|
That was their stealthy way of getting a new rifle lol
But isn’t the SIG wunderwaffen going to be adopted by the army, so maybe the usmc too? |
|
|
They are going to miss it against a peer or near peer when fire superiority is required. Nothing beats a belt fed when that is the case
|
|
|
How are you supposed to implement a new weapons system (and secure a sweet post retirement board seat) with out a capacity gap?
|
|
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.