Does God do what He wants with His people? (Page 2 of 3)
|
Originally Posted By 3xpert: Matt 11: 28-30 28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light. Mark 2: 24-28 24 And the Pharisees said unto him, Behold, why do they on the sabbath day that which is not lawful? 25 And he said unto them, Have ye never read what David did, when he had need, and was an hungred, he, and they that were with him? 26 How he went into the house of God in the days of Abiathar the high priest, and did eat the shewbread, which is not lawful to eat but for the priests, and gave also to them which were with him? 27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: 28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath. The Old Testament Sabbath day pointed to Jesus Christ as the Sabbath rest. Now that the Messiah arrived, Rest from what? Trying to earn God's Grace by self works, instead rest in what Jesus did on the Cross. Everyday of the week. Luke 9:23 23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me. "His Cross" not yours, your blood or mine means nothing, and put your Faith in what Jesus did on the Cross Daily. The Sabbath rest is not only for the 7th day, it also points to the 7th millennium, when our Savior arrives again to rule and reign. Also called the Millennial Kingdom, or the coming Kingdom of God. No one was ever saved by works, before, during or after the resurection. Obedience brings blessing and a closer relationship to the Father. |
A man of much courage and superb equipment
Joined:
Feb 2001
Posts:
149683
EE: 0% (0)
VA, USA
|
Originally Posted By RSR556: The Apostilles were Jewish men who recognized Yeshua as the Messiah who was prophesied in Scripture. St. Ignatius was born 1400 years after John died. That's a long time for traditions of men to have crept in. Originally Posted By RSR556: Originally Posted By brianm: My question was not whether YOU think it is the case or not. That matters not at all. It was whether the Apostle and their disciples would have thought those that preached something completely different from them would consider them part of the body of believers? It was semi-rhetorical question. Of course they would reject, for example, a heretical Judaizer. St. Ignatius was a disciple of the apostle St. John. You know, the guy I quoted saying they did NOT observe the Sabbath. You can find quotes from almost all the early Church writers warning against the evils of Judaizing. Dude, I doubt you eat essentially foraged grains and fruit for a year. Or store enough to last from the previous year. lol. If you did, that just shows the sickness of your Judaizing...something modern 'Jews' have all but completely abandoned or interpreted themselves out of doing. The Apostilles were Jewish men who recognized Yeshua as the Messiah who was prophesied in Scripture. St. Ignatius was born 1400 years after John died. That's a long time for traditions of men to have crept in. You seem to be confusing Ignatius of Antioch with Ignatius of Loyola. That's a pretty deep confusion, and indicative of a theology rooted in mid-19th century English speaking world that starts with core assumptions and practices about scripture and ecclesiology that are, themselves, traditions of men even further removed from John and his peers than either Ignatius. |
History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which Trump is always right.
Modern life is one steep, perpetual tax on the mathematically impaired
Modern life is one steep, perpetual tax on the mathematically impaired
|
Originally Posted By RSR556: The Apostilles were Jewish men who recognized Yeshua as the Messiah who was prophesied in Scripture. St. Ignatius was born 1400 years after John died. That's a long time for traditions of men to have crept in. Brother, not sure you even know who St. Ignatius of Antioch is. You just looked up “St. Ignatius” and clicked on St. Ignatius of Loyola. Who is admittedly an amazing man of God in his own right, who kept the same catholic and apostolic faith as his ancient spiritual father of the same name. I suggest you read what our ante-Nicene Church fathers wrote and what they were taught from the Apostles, which lines up with scripture completely. They have nothing good to say about Judaizers. |
|
Originally Posted By brianm: Brother, not sure you even know who St. Ignatius of Antioch is. You just looked up “St. Ignatius” and clicked on St. Ignatius of Loyola. Who is admittedly an amazing man of God in his own right, who kept the same catholic and apostolic faith as his ancient spiritual father of the same name. I suggest you read what our ante-Nicene Church fathers wrote and what they were taught from the Apostles, which lines up with scripture completely. They have nothing good to say about Judaizers. You're right. I've heard of Ignatius, but had to look up his timeline and got the wrong one. I'm curious as to what you would say that judaizer means. |
|
Originally Posted By RSR556: The Apostilles were Jewish men who recognized Yeshua as the Messiah who was prophesied in Scripture. St. Ignatius was born 1400 years after John died. That's a long time for traditions of men to have crept in. Originally Posted By RSR556: Originally Posted By brianm: My question was not whether YOU think it is the case or not. That matters not at all. It was whether the Apostle and their disciples would have thought those that preached something completely different from them would consider them part of the body of believers? It was semi-rhetorical question. Of course they would reject, for example, a heretical Judaizer. St. Ignatius was a disciple of the apostle St. John. You know, the guy I quoted saying they did NOT observe the Sabbath. You can find quotes from almost all the early Church writers warning against the evils of Judaizing. Dude, I doubt you eat essentially foraged grains and fruit for a year. Or store enough to last from the previous year. lol. If you did, that just shows the sickness of your Judaizing...something modern 'Jews' have all but completely abandoned or interpreted themselves out of doing. The Apostilles were Jewish men who recognized Yeshua as the Messiah who was prophesied in Scripture. St. Ignatius was born 1400 years after John died. That's a long time for traditions of men to have crept in. Saint Ignatius was the third bishop of Antioch, he died in 108 AD. You are likely thinking of Saint Ignatius of Loyola. Oops, missed there being another page here. |
Give me that old time religion
A man of much courage and superb equipment
Joined:
Feb 2001
Posts:
149730
EE: 0% (0)
VA, USA
|
Originally Posted By wswartzendruber: The obsession with Judaism in the evangelical church is perplexing. It makes sense when you realize they lack a solid grounding in Covenantal Theology. They start with a flawed foundational premise, and build understanding from there. I might pick on the Seventh Day Adventists, but the whole Millerite thing makes perfect sense in the context (early to mid 19th century America, KJV as word by word word of God, institutional Church that is described in Acts and which produced and preserved the "New Testament" scriptures is long gone as foundational premise of where it came about). Thus, we are left to make sense of God's design by turning text alone into novel doctrine. The strawman and wrong accusation of "replacement theology" does, at the very least, touch on a major difference in understanding this produces. No institutional Church = no priests = no new and eternal covenant = no new Israel = obsession with "old" Israel, a Jewish nation-state, as fulfilling prophecies historical Christianity always understood as relating to the Christian church. They don't see such a Church (hard to when you won't open your eyes) but they do see the modern country of Israel. |
History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which Trump is always right.
Modern life is one steep, perpetual tax on the mathematically impaired
Modern life is one steep, perpetual tax on the mathematically impaired
Joined:
Nov 2022
Posts:
1042
EE: 0% (0)
OH, USA
|
Originally Posted By monadh: Since the conversation in this thread has gone completely off track from what I think the original topics were ("Does God do what He wants with His people" and "No religious institution controls the Holy Spirit or holds exclusive claim to His will"), I feel free to ask questions to everyone here. And if you can answer a direct question rather than listing unrelated verses, it might add some clarity to the discussion. Do you believe current Christian traditions (of whatever stripe, Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant, or Hobby-Lobby-stitched-together) to be a continuation of the practices of the Pharisees? If so, which ones, and how much like the actual practices of the Pharisees are they? What is your understanding of the practices of the Pharisees? Which of the current traditions do you think that Jesus would call a "brood of vipers" and a "synagogue of Satan"? Why? Do you believe that making up your system of belief as you go along to be a more pure example of faith in Christ (even though tradition played a role in you finding out who Jesus is in the first place)? If you are making up your faith as you go along, what safeguards do you have to avoid heresy? Don't say it's your understanding of scripture as revealed by the Holy Spirit, because that is no justification at all. You are in an echo chamber of one, and of course you will agree with you. The Catholics and the Orthodox have the strongest traditions in Christianity, and given their contributions to the continuation and spread of the Faith, it is fair to acknowledge what they have done correctly instead of just focusing on micro-perceptions of what someone thinks they believe. Most here have zero idea of what a debt is owed to them. Back to the original topics: "Does God do what He wants with His people" and "No religious institution controls the Holy Spirit or holds exclusive claim to His will" - These are easy to respond to - Yes, He does what He wants with His people, no one here said He couldn't, and the question is ridiculous / No, no religious institution "controls" the Holy Spirit, and no religious institution "holds" exclusive claim to His will. That said, there are some religious institutions that are more closely aligned with His will than others. None are perfectly aligned, and using that as a reason to avoid belonging to and learning from some of them is just a resurrecting of the times of the Judges: "In those days there was no king in Israel; everyone did what was right in his own eyes." There are plenty of examples of rebellious and proud spirits in the religion forum doing what is right in their own eyes. We will all stand before God at some point to give account for our actions. I believe GOD has preserved His WORD from the moment that HE spoke them to His servants and they wrote them down. Also, as Holy men of GOD spake and wrote by inspiration/instruction of the HOLY SPIRIT. Furthermore, I believe the eyewitnesses who walked with and followed JESUS, recorded His words, they went onto dying for their testimony of Truth. I believed the WORD the Truth, cried out to JESUS in repentance, and a miracle happened, I was born again, and the HOLY SPIRIT came. Since then, I've been being conformed and taught by the HOLY SPIRIT. I got water baptized later after this also. Hebrews 4:12 is true. If that seems rebellious to you, then so be it. |
|
Originally Posted By Bohr_Adam: It makes sense when you realize they lack a solid grounding in Covenantal Theology. They start with a flawed foundational premise, and build understanding from there. I might pick on the Seventh Day Adventists, but the whole Millerite thing makes perfect sense in the context (early to mid 19th century America, KJV as word by word word of God, institutional Church that is described in Acts and which produced and preserved the "New Testament" scriptures is long gone as foundational premise of where it came about. Thus, we are left to make sense of God's design by turning text alone into novel doctrine. The strawman and wrong accusation of "replacement theology" does, at the very least, touch on a major difference in understanding this produces. No institutional Church = no priests = no new and eternal covenant = no new Israel = obsession with "old" Israel, a Jewish nation-state, as fulfilling prophecies historical Christianity always understood as relating to the Christian church. They don't see such a Church (hard to when you won't open your eyes) but they do see the modern country of Israel. Originally Posted By Bohr_Adam: Originally Posted By wswartzendruber: The obsession with Judaism in the evangelical church is perplexing. It makes sense when you realize they lack a solid grounding in Covenantal Theology. They start with a flawed foundational premise, and build understanding from there. I might pick on the Seventh Day Adventists, but the whole Millerite thing makes perfect sense in the context (early to mid 19th century America, KJV as word by word word of God, institutional Church that is described in Acts and which produced and preserved the "New Testament" scriptures is long gone as foundational premise of where it came about. Thus, we are left to make sense of God's design by turning text alone into novel doctrine. The strawman and wrong accusation of "replacement theology" does, at the very least, touch on a major difference in understanding this produces. No institutional Church = no priests = no new and eternal covenant = no new Israel = obsession with "old" Israel, a Jewish nation-state, as fulfilling prophecies historical Christianity always understood as relating to the Christian church. They don't see such a Church (hard to when you won't open your eyes) but they do see the modern country of Israel. Sounds similar: Hilaire Belloc writing in the early 20th century: [As to the great Mohammedan heresy] the central point where this new heresy struck home with a mortal blow against Catholic tradition was a full denial of the Incarnation. Mohammed did not merely take the first steps toward that denial, as the Arians and their followers had done; he advanced a clear affirmation, full and complete, against the whole doctrine of an incarnate God. He taught that Our Lord was the greatest of all the prophets, but still only a prophet: a man like other men. He eliminated the Trinity altogether. With that denial of the Incarnation went the whole sacramental structure. He refused to know anything of the Eucharist, with its Real Presence; he stopped the sacrifice of the Mass, and therefore the institution of a special priesthood. In other words, he, like so many other lesser heresiarchs, founded his heresy on simplification. Catholic doctrine was true (he seemed to say), but it had become encumbered with false accretions; it had become complicated by needless man-made additions, including the idea that its founder was Divine, and the growth of a parasitical caste of priests who battened on a late, imagined, system of Sacraments which they alone could administer. All those corrupt accretions must be swept away. |
Give me that old time religion
|
Originally Posted By Raidersgone: I believe GOD has preserved His WORD from the moment that HE spoke them to His servants and they wrote them down. Also, as Holy men of GOD spake and wrote by inspiration/instruction of the HOLY SPIRIT. Furthermore, I believe the eyewitnesses who walked with and followed JESUS, recorded His words, they went onto dying for their testimony of Truth. I believed the WORD the Truth, cried out to JESUS in repentance, and a miracle happened, I was born again, and the HOLY SPIRIT came. Since then, I've been being conformed and taught by the HOLY SPIRIT. I got water baptized later after this also. Hebrews 4:12 is true. If that seems rebellious to you, then so be it. Got it. Jesus came to found a Bible. Then leave it to the Holy Spirit to sort things out, eventually 2000 year later, in the 20th-21st century. |
|
Originally Posted By TangoFoxtrot: Got it. Jesus came to found a Bible. Then leave it to the Holy Spirit to sort things out, eventually 2000 year later, in the 20th-21st century. 1 Peter 1: 18-25 18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; 19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: 20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, 21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God. 22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: 23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. 24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: 25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you. No! Jesus did not come to found the Bible, Jesus was the Bible, The Word made flesh, And the Word was around long before the catholic church. The Holy Spirit is still around today, because Jesus rose from the dead. You seem to have an issue with God's Word, because your heart is not right with the Lord. And your catechism is man made and it is not the Word of God. The Holy Spirit did not inspire a man to write your catechism, The Holy Spirit inspired the writers of the Bible even back to Genesis. |
USMC 77-81 6113
|
Originally Posted By 3xpert: You seem to have an issue with God's Word, because your heart is not right with the Lord. And your catechism is man made and it is not the Word of God. |
A man of much courage and superb equipment
Joined:
Feb 2001
Posts:
149742
EE: 0% (0)
VA, USA
|
Originally Posted By TangoFoxtrot: No, I have pity on those who deny and reject the authentic Jesus and replace him with their personal counterfeit Jesus. They act like they have superior access to the Holy Spirit and constantly confront and question Catholics like they are not right with God. I pray for you lost souls and offer those prayers up at Mass along with prayers for others who reject Christ. Originally Posted By TangoFoxtrot: Originally Posted By 3xpert: You seem to have an issue with God's Word, because your heart is not right with the Lord. And your catechism is man made and it is not the Word of God. Remember, it all starts with a rejection of continuation of the Church at the original Pentecost. The term "Pentecostalism" (whether those who espouse these beliefs acknowledge the origins or not) itself betrays an underlying premise that the Church failed and needed to be restored. They will all claim their theology coming from scripture first, but that really only follows the original premise (and the ironic and unbiblical nature of said premise is not lost on me). Further, by rejecting Church authority, discipleship, and the entire sacramental life, they can then use ironically out-of-context preaching from the words of the earliest Church authorities to assert direct intervention of the Holy Spirit to justify any and everything. It's genuinely a case of trying to reason someone out from a position they never reasoned themselves into, with the added hubris of their believing their every personal internal thought on the matters is the Holy Spirit guiding them. Thus, we have thread after thread where we see clear and wanton inability to as much as pretend to even steel-man other points of view. God himself speaks through them and guides their words. We might think that's heresy or even demonic. To them. It's a Tuesday (well, Saturday in this case). |
History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which Trump is always right.
Modern life is one steep, perpetual tax on the mathematically impaired
Modern life is one steep, perpetual tax on the mathematically impaired
Joined:
Nov 2022
Posts:
1043
EE: 0% (0)
OH, USA
|
Originally Posted By Bohr_Adam: Remember, it all starts with a rejection of continuation of the Church at the original Pentecost. The term "Pentecostalism" (whether those who espouse these beliefs acknowledge the origins or not) itself betrays an underlying premise that the Church failed and needed to be restored. They will all claim their theology coming from scripture first, but that really only follows the original premise (and the ironic and unbiblical nature of said premise is not lost on me). Further, by rejecting Church authority, discipleship, and the entire sacramental life, they can then use ironically out-of-context preaching from the words of the earliest Church authorities to assert direct intervention of the Holy Spirit to justify any and everything. It's genuinely a case of trying to reason someone out from a position they never reasoned themselves into, with the added hubris of their believing their every personal internal thought on the matters is the Holy Spirit guiding them. Thus, we have thread after thread where we see clear and wanton inability to as much as pretend to even steel-man other points of view. God himself speaks through them and guides their words. We might think that's heresy or even demonic. To them. It's a Tuesday (well, Saturday in this case). Originally Posted By Bohr_Adam: Originally Posted By TangoFoxtrot: Originally Posted By 3xpert: You seem to have an issue with God's Word, because your heart is not right with the Lord. And your catechism is man made and it is not the Word of God. Remember, it all starts with a rejection of continuation of the Church at the original Pentecost. The term "Pentecostalism" (whether those who espouse these beliefs acknowledge the origins or not) itself betrays an underlying premise that the Church failed and needed to be restored. They will all claim their theology coming from scripture first, but that really only follows the original premise (and the ironic and unbiblical nature of said premise is not lost on me). Further, by rejecting Church authority, discipleship, and the entire sacramental life, they can then use ironically out-of-context preaching from the words of the earliest Church authorities to assert direct intervention of the Holy Spirit to justify any and everything. It's genuinely a case of trying to reason someone out from a position they never reasoned themselves into, with the added hubris of their believing their every personal internal thought on the matters is the Holy Spirit guiding them. Thus, we have thread after thread where we see clear and wanton inability to as much as pretend to even steel-man other points of view. God himself speaks through them and guides their words. We might think that's heresy or even demonic. To them. It's a Tuesday (well, Saturday in this case). I believe by faith The Almighty GOD is able and did give us His WORD just as He says in the scriptures we have. He didn't give just enough that some religion has to finish and approve. He did not leave us confused and wondering who will be the one figuring it out for us. How big is your God? Is HIS arm too short to reach? |
A man of much courage and superb equipment
Joined:
Feb 2001
Posts:
149743
EE: 0% (0)
VA, USA
|
Originally Posted By Raidersgone: I believe by faith The Almighty GOD is able and did give us His WORD just as He says in the scriptures we have. He didn't give just enough that some religion has to finish and approve. He did not leave us confused and wondering who will be the one figuring it out for us. How big is your God? Is HIS arm too short to reach? Originally Posted By Raidersgone: Originally Posted By Bohr_Adam: Originally Posted By TangoFoxtrot: Originally Posted By 3xpert: You seem to have an issue with God's Word, because your heart is not right with the Lord. And your catechism is man made and it is not the Word of God. Remember, it all starts with a rejection of continuation of the Church at the original Pentecost. The term "Pentecostalism" (whether those who espouse these beliefs acknowledge the origins or not) itself betrays an underlying premise that the Church failed and needed to be restored. They will all claim their theology coming from scripture first, but that really only follows the original premise (and the ironic and unbiblical nature of said premise is not lost on me). Further, by rejecting Church authority, discipleship, and the entire sacramental life, they can then use ironically out-of-context preaching from the words of the earliest Church authorities to assert direct intervention of the Holy Spirit to justify any and everything. It's genuinely a case of trying to reason someone out from a position they never reasoned themselves into, with the added hubris of their believing their every personal internal thought on the matters is the Holy Spirit guiding them. Thus, we have thread after thread where we see clear and wanton inability to as much as pretend to even steel-man other points of view. God himself speaks through them and guides their words. We might think that's heresy or even demonic. To them. It's a Tuesday (well, Saturday in this case). I believe by faith The Almighty GOD is able and did give us His WORD just as He says in the scriptures we have. He didn't give just enough that some religion has to finish and approve. He did not leave us confused and wondering who will be the one figuring it out for us. How big is your God? Is HIS arm too short to reach? There is no confusion. You seem to think He failed to preserve his Church and you seem to reject His sacraments. That's on you. Keep telling yourself the Holy Spirit is guiding you directly, in ways contrary to the Church if you must, but there's a thousand other people saying the same thing who then interpret things differently. That's quite literally the very definition of a spirit of confusion. Follow your own logic there. Where does it take you? |
History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which Trump is always right.
Modern life is one steep, perpetual tax on the mathematically impaired
Modern life is one steep, perpetual tax on the mathematically impaired
|
Originally Posted By Bohr_Adam: It's genuinely a case of trying to reason someone out from a position they never reasoned themselves into, with the added hubris of their believing their every personal internal thought on the matters is the Holy Spirit guiding them. Thus, we have thread after thread where we see clear and wanton inability to as much as pretend to even steel-man other points of view. God himself speaks through them and guides their words. We might think that's heresy or even demonic. To them. It's a Tuesday (well, Saturday in this case). A great assessment of the positions of many here. I have asked direct questions to try and get them to describe their beliefs, and there have been no direct responses, just the occasional wall of text. What has surprised me most (and it shouldn't have, considering where I came from) is the complete lack of curiosity and outright unwillingness to consider anything outside of the subset of knowledge and possibly learn something that they had never known before. 1 Corinthians says that knowledge puffs up, and that even applies to minuscule knowledge. Fortunately for me, I had always been aware of the limitations of my knowledge, and that has forced me to want to know more about God. What I know, I know, but what I don't know always makes me review what I think I know. This does not cause any crisis of faith for me, instead, it points me to the measureless nature of God and all that He is. I know that posting in threads such as this is a waste of time, but I get pulled back in. The people who have made up their minds that the belief systems they have created in a vacuum are perfect and without error can't be made to think otherwise by reason. What I do know is that if they are hearing anything from the Holy Spirit and they actually do want to obey and not just prove their already attained perfection, the Holy Spirit can and will point out the changes that need to be made. Then it is up to them to comply. If they hold to their "perfect knowledge" and attack others who do not agree with them, it becomes clear that they are here to cause divisions |
|
Originally Posted By RSR556: You're right. I've heard of Ignatius, but had to look up his timeline and got the wrong one. I'm curious as to what you would say that judaizer means. Those sick Christians that rather than live in the grace of Christ, through vanity, insist to live as though He had not come. |
Joined:
Nov 2022
Posts:
1044
EE: 0% (0)
OH, USA
|
Originally Posted By brianm: God was and is not a book. That's blasphemous my guy. Originally Posted By brianm: Originally Posted By 3xpert: No! Jesus did not come to found the Bible, Jesus was the Bible, The Word made flesh, God was and is not a book. That's blasphemous my guy. You are correct all along my brother 3xpert. Hebrews 10:6-18 6). In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou has had no pleasure. 7). Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me) to do thy will O GOD. John 5:38-39 And you have not His Word abiding in you: for whom HE has sent, Him you believe not. Search the scriptures; for in them you think you have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. ~JESUS Luke 24:25-27 27). And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, He expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning Himself. Luke 24:44 And He said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. ~JESUS |
|
Originally Posted By TangoFoxtrot: No, I have pity on those who deny and reject the authentic Jesus and replace him with their personal counterfeit Jesus. They act like they have superior access to the Holy Spirit and constantly confront and question Catholics like they are not right with God. I pray for you lost souls and offer those prayers up at Mass along with prayers for others who reject Christ. Peter wrote what he did under the inpiration of the Holy Spirit. And you did not read what Peter wrote. You just called Peter a liar. And you claim Peter is your first pope. But your really calling God a liar. Peter only wrote what God told him. |
USMC 77-81 6113
A man of much courage and superb equipment
Joined:
Feb 2001
Posts:
149748
EE: 0% (0)
VA, USA
|
Originally Posted By 3xpert: Peter wrote what he did under the inpiration of the Holy Spirit. And you did not read what Peter wrote. You just called Peter a liar. And you claim Peter is your first pope. But your really calling God a liar. Peter only wrote what God told him. Originally Posted By 3xpert: Originally Posted By TangoFoxtrot: No, I have pity on those who deny and reject the authentic Jesus and replace him with their personal counterfeit Jesus. They act like they have superior access to the Holy Spirit and constantly confront and question Catholics like they are not right with God. I pray for you lost souls and offer those prayers up at Mass along with prayers for others who reject Christ. Peter wrote what he did under the inpiration of the Holy Spirit. And you did not read what Peter wrote. You just called Peter a liar. And you claim Peter is your first pope. But your really calling God a liar. Peter only wrote what God told him. Peter was writing to baptized members of beleaguered distant Church communities who clearly recognized his authority to write to them and instruct. They certainly could have been like "Nuh uh, the Holy Spirit told me not to honor the Emperor? Who do you think you are?" The Church has never lost this authority - this obligation - and there is certainly zero scriptural evidence for your claim that it has. |
History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which Trump is always right.
Modern life is one steep, perpetual tax on the mathematically impaired
Modern life is one steep, perpetual tax on the mathematically impaired
|
Originally Posted By Raidersgone: You are correct all along my brother 3xpert. Hebrews 10:6-18 6). In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou has had no pleasure. 7). Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me) to do thy will O GOD. John 5:38-39 And you have not His Word abiding in you: for whom HE has sent, Him you believe not. Search the scriptures; for in them you think you have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. ~JESUS Luke 24:25-27 27). And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, He expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning Himself. Luke 24:44 And He said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. ~JESUS They don't accept the Bible because it convicts them of thier sin. |
USMC 77-81 6113
A man of much courage and superb equipment
Joined:
Feb 2001
Posts:
149749
EE: 0% (0)
VA, USA
|
Thus, we have thread after thread where we see clear and wanton inability to as much as pretend to even steel-man other points of view. ... and, I'll add, post after post. |
History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which Trump is always right.
Modern life is one steep, perpetual tax on the mathematically impaired
Modern life is one steep, perpetual tax on the mathematically impaired
|
Originally Posted By 3xpert:Peter wrote what he did under the inpiration of the Holy Spirit. And you did not read what Peter wrote. You just called Peter a liar. And you claim Peter is your first pope. But your really calling God a liar. Peter only wrote what God told him. |
|
Originally Posted By Raidersgone: You are correct all along my brother 3xpert. Hebrews 10:6-18 6). In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou has had no pleasure. 7). Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me) to do thy will O GOD. John 5:38-39 And you have not His Word abiding in you: for whom HE has sent, Him you believe not. Search the scriptures; for in them you think you have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. ~JESUS Luke 24:25-27 27). And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, He expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning Himself. Luke 24:44 And He said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. ~JESUS Do you actually believe Jesus existed as a book? Quoting scripture that says a book was written about God actually proves that the book itself is NOT God. You've turned written pages into an idol. I mean we are just airing out every bit of crazy in this thread. 
|
|
Originally Posted By brianm: Do you actually believe Jesus existed as a book? Quoting scripture that says a book was written about God actually proves that the book itself is NOT God. You've turned written pages into an idol. I mean we are just airing out every bit of crazy in this thread. Matt 16: 5-12 5 And when his disciples were come to the other side, they had forgotten to take bread. 6 Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees. 7 And they reasoned among themselves, saying, It is because we have taken no bread. 8 Which when Jesus perceived, he said unto them, O ye of little faith, why reason ye among yourselves, because ye have brought no bread? 9 Do ye not yet understand, neither remember the five loaves of the five thousand, and how many baskets ye took up? 10 Neither the seven loaves of the four thousand, and how many baskets ye took up? 11 How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees? 12 Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees. You remind me of this Scripture, When Jesus told his disciples to beware of the Leaven of the pharisees and sadducees, (Sects of Jews) Jesus was talking about avoiding what the they were teaching, But his disciples thought Jesus was talking about a loaf of bread. Seriously, you think Jesus is just a talking book? Your about as spiritually dead as a statue. John 1:1-14 At least read verse 14 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. 9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. |
USMC 77-81 6113
|
Originally Posted By TangoFoxtrot: You live in a strange world of accusations against Christians you accuse of having it wrong for 2000 years. That's common to a few here who always start their "religious" threads or posts with attacks on Catholics and high Protestants because the "Holy Spirit" is personally telling them everyone else is wrong. You are not a teacher, or a prophet. You are just a lost soul on a false path that wanders far from Christ. You are in my prayers in hope you get off this path as I am afraid it was built by demons to lure you one step at a time further away from Christ. What did I say that wasn't true? |
USMC 77-81 6113
|
Originally Posted By 3xpert: Matt 16: 5-12 5 And when his disciples were come to the other side, they had forgotten to take bread. 6 Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees. 7 And they reasoned among themselves, saying, It is because we have taken no bread. 8 Which when Jesus perceived, he said unto them, O ye of little faith, why reason ye among yourselves, because ye have brought no bread? 9 Do ye not yet understand, neither remember the five loaves of the five thousand, and how many baskets ye took up? 10 Neither the seven loaves of the four thousand, and how many baskets ye took up? 11 How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees? 12 Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees. You remind me of this Scripture, When Jesus told his disciples to beware of the Leaven of the pharisees and sadducees, (Sects of Jews) Jesus was talking about avoiding what the they were teaching, But his disciples thought Jesus was talking about a loaf of bread. Seriously, you think Jesus is just a talking book? Your about as spiritually dead as a statue. John 1:1-14 At least read verse 14 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. 9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. Jesus is not a book. Craziness like this happens when you think your strange feelings are literally the 'Holy Spirit.' Thank God for the Church He gave us to keep the fire lit against such dark insanity. |
A man of much courage and superb equipment
Joined:
Feb 2001
Posts:
149754
EE: 0% (0)
VA, USA
|
Originally Posted By 3xpert: Matt 16: 5-12 5 And when his disciples were come to the other side, they had forgotten to take bread. 6 Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees. 7 And they reasoned among themselves, saying, It is because we have taken no bread. 8 Which when Jesus perceived, he said unto them, O ye of little faith, why reason ye among yourselves, because ye have brought no bread? 9 Do ye not yet understand, neither remember the five loaves of the five thousand, and how many baskets ye took up? 10 Neither the seven loaves of the four thousand, and how many baskets ye took up? 11 How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees? 12 Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees. You remind me of this Scripture, When Jesus told his disciples to beware of the Leaven of the pharisees and sadducees, (Sects of Jews) Jesus was talking about avoiding what the they were teaching, But his disciples thought Jesus was talking about a loaf of bread. Seriously, you think Jesus is just a talking book? Your about as spiritually dead as a statue. John 1:1-14 At least read verse 14 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. 9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. Originally Posted By 3xpert: Originally Posted By brianm: Do you actually believe Jesus existed as a book? Quoting scripture that says a book was written about God actually proves that the book itself is NOT God. You've turned written pages into an idol. I mean we are just airing out every bit of crazy in this thread. Matt 16: 5-12 5 And when his disciples were come to the other side, they had forgotten to take bread. 6 Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees. 7 And they reasoned among themselves, saying, It is because we have taken no bread. 8 Which when Jesus perceived, he said unto them, O ye of little faith, why reason ye among yourselves, because ye have brought no bread? 9 Do ye not yet understand, neither remember the five loaves of the five thousand, and how many baskets ye took up? 10 Neither the seven loaves of the four thousand, and how many baskets ye took up? 11 How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees? 12 Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees. You remind me of this Scripture, When Jesus told his disciples to beware of the Leaven of the pharisees and sadducees, (Sects of Jews) Jesus was talking about avoiding what the they were teaching, But his disciples thought Jesus was talking about a loaf of bread. Seriously, you think Jesus is just a talking book? Your about as spiritually dead as a statue. John 1:1-14 At least read verse 14 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. 9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. You were the one who suggested that. Not him. He asked for clarity, you responded with more random scriptural quoted that indicated, as always, you don't even understand the topic at hand. |
History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which Trump is always right.
Modern life is one steep, perpetual tax on the mathematically impaired
Modern life is one steep, perpetual tax on the mathematically impaired
|
Originally Posted By brianm: Do you actually believe Jesus existed as a book? Quoting scripture that says a book was written about God actually proves that the book itself is NOT God. You've turned written pages into an idol. I mean we are just airing out every bit of crazy in this thread. Originally Posted By brianm: Originally Posted By Raidersgone: You are correct all along my brother 3xpert. Hebrews 10:6-18 6). In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou has had no pleasure. 7). Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me) to do thy will O GOD. John 5:38-39 And you have not His Word abiding in you: for whom HE has sent, Him you believe not. Search the scriptures; for in them you think you have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. ~JESUS Luke 24:25-27 27). And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, He expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning Himself. Luke 24:44 And He said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. ~JESUS Do you actually believe Jesus existed as a book? Quoting scripture that says a book was written about God actually proves that the book itself is NOT God. You've turned written pages into an idol. I mean we are just airing out every bit of crazy in this thread. The 51-57 min mark on this video explains this exactly.  Dn. Mihret on Defending the Ancient Faith and American Orthodoxy@theburningbush318 @WesternDiocese |
|
Originally Posted By MolonLabeFBHO: The 51-57 min mark on this video explains this exactly.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEcuw23_8d4Ah, that’s the Eth. Orthodox young man from that one Cliff and son video. He explains it with eloquence I don’t have. I enjoyed that, thank you. |
|
Originally Posted By 3xpert: What did I say that wasn't true? You seem to have an issue with God's Word, because your heart is not right with the Lord. And your catechism is man made and it is not the Word of God. The Holy Spirit did not inspire a man to write your catechism, The Holy Spirit inspired the writers of the Bible even back to Genesis. You just called Peter a liar. And you claim Peter is your first pope. But your really calling God a liar. Peter only wrote what God told him. They don't accept the Bible because it convicts them of thier sin. This evening I attended a Catholic Church named St. Peter's and during the Mass prayed that God would help you see the truth. |
A man of much courage and superb equipment
Joined:
Feb 2001
Posts:
149763
EE: 0% (0)
VA, USA
|
Originally Posted By MolonLabeFBHO: The 51-57 min mark on this video explains this exactly. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEcuw23_8d4Originally Posted By MolonLabeFBHO: Originally Posted By brianm: Originally Posted By Raidersgone: You are correct all along my brother 3xpert. Hebrews 10:6-18 6). In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou has had no pleasure. 7). Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me) to do thy will O GOD. John 5:38-39 And you have not His Word abiding in you: for whom HE has sent, Him you believe not. Search the scriptures; for in them you think you have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. ~JESUS Luke 24:25-27 27). And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, He expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning Himself. Luke 24:44 And He said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. ~JESUS Do you actually believe Jesus existed as a book? Quoting scripture that says a book was written about God actually proves that the book itself is NOT God. You've turned written pages into an idol. I mean we are just airing out every bit of crazy in this thread. The 51-57 min mark on this video explains this exactly. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEcuw23_8d45:12 - 7:01 almost sounds like he's reading this thread as well. But, it's not like any of this is original. Great video. |
History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which Trump is always right.
Modern life is one steep, perpetual tax on the mathematically impaired
Modern life is one steep, perpetual tax on the mathematically impaired
|
Originally Posted By brianm: Ah, that’s the Eth. Orthodox young man from that one Cliff and son video. He explains it with eloquence I don’t have. I enjoyed that, thank you. Originally Posted By brianm: Originally Posted By MolonLabeFBHO: The 51-57 min mark on this video explains this exactly. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEcuw23_8d4Ah, that’s the Eth. Orthodox young man from that one Cliff and son video. He explains it with eloquence I don’t have. I enjoyed that, thank you. I’ll have to check it out later. |
Give me that old time religion
|
Originally Posted By Bohr_Adam: You seem to be confusing Ignatius of Antioch with Ignatius of Loyola. That's a pretty deep confusion, and indicative of a theology rooted in mid-19th century English speaking world that starts with core assumptions and practices about scripture and ecclesiology that are, themselves, traditions of men even further removed from John and his peers than either Ignatius. This is touched on in the class/video series I posted about awhile back about from my parish. The girl teaching was born and raised Catholic, left for Methodism in high school, ended up back in the RCC. She pointed out that the timeline of Church history looks something like this to Protestants: Jesus--->Apostles--->1400 years of nothing--->Martin Luther |
A man of much courage and superb equipment
Joined:
Feb 2001
Posts:
149781
EE: 0% (0)
VA, USA
|
Originally Posted By flcroc: This is touched on in the class/video series I posted about awhile back about from my parish. The girl teaching was born and raised Catholic, left for Methodism in high school, ended up back in the RCC. She pointed out that the timeline of Church history looks something like this to Protestants: Jesus--->Apostles--->1400 years of nothing--->Martin Luther Originally Posted By flcroc: Originally Posted By Bohr_Adam: You seem to be confusing Ignatius of Antioch with Ignatius of Loyola. That's a pretty deep confusion, and indicative of a theology rooted in mid-19th century English speaking world that starts with core assumptions and practices about scripture and ecclesiology that are, themselves, traditions of men even further removed from John and his peers than either Ignatius. This is touched on in the class/video series I posted about awhile back about from my parish. The girl teaching was born and raised Catholic, left for Methodism in high school, ended up back in the RCC. She pointed out that the timeline of Church history looks something like this to Protestants: Jesus--->Apostles--->1400 years of nothing--->Martin Luther Somewhere in there the magic Bible appears. Ex Nihilo. |
History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which Trump is always right.
Modern life is one steep, perpetual tax on the mathematically impaired
Modern life is one steep, perpetual tax on the mathematically impaired
|
Originally Posted By Bohr_Adam: Somewhere in there the magic Bible appears. Ex Nihilo. Originally Posted By Bohr_Adam: Originally Posted By flcroc: Originally Posted By Bohr_Adam: You seem to be confusing Ignatius of Antioch with Ignatius of Loyola. That's a pretty deep confusion, and indicative of a theology rooted in mid-19th century English speaking world that starts with core assumptions and practices about scripture and ecclesiology that are, themselves, traditions of men even further removed from John and his peers than either Ignatius. This is touched on in the class/video series I posted about awhile back about from my parish. The girl teaching was born and raised Catholic, left for Methodism in high school, ended up back in the RCC. She pointed out that the timeline of Church history looks something like this to Protestants: Jesus--->Apostles--->1400 years of nothing--->Martin Luther Somewhere in there the magic Bible appears. Ex Nihilo. You mean the Bible compiled by the (Catholic/only existing at the time) church that doesn't refer to that church? But then when it does refer to a church, it's a church that's a better church than Jesus' because there's no man made stuff? |
|
Originally Posted By Bohr_Adam: Somewhere in there the magic Bible appears. Ex Nihilo. The apostles looked up at Jesus as he ascended. Once he was gone, they looked down and right where his footprints were was a printed Authorized Version of the Scriptures. 1611 edition. Gothic typeface. |
|
Originally Posted By wswartzendruber: The apostles looked up at Jesus as he ascended. Once he was gone, they looked down and right where his footprints were was a printed Authorized Version of the Scriptures. 1611 edition. Gothic typeface. That was left out in every class at seminary. It explains so much and would increase the faith of all if it was better known. |
|
Originally Posted By brianm: Those sick Christians that rather than live in the grace of Christ, through vanity, insist to live as though He had not come. Originally Posted By brianm: Originally Posted By RSR556: You're right. I've heard of Ignatius, but had to look up his timeline and got the wrong one. I'm curious as to what you would say that judaizer means. Those sick Christians that rather than live in the grace of Christ, through vanity, insist to live as though He had not come. That doesn't apply to me then. I'm waiting for Him to return, trying to follow Him, by doing His will, which is the same as the Father's will. Like He said, I do the will of My Father in Heaven, and He said if you have seen the Son you have seen the Father. |
|
Originally Posted By TangoFoxtrot: You live in a strange world of accusations against Christians you accuse of having it wrong for 2000 years. That's common to a few here who always start their "religious" threads or posts with attacks on Catholics and high Protestants because the "Holy Spirit" is personally telling them everyone else is wrong. You are not a teacher, or a prophet. You are just a lost soul on a false path that wanders far from Christ. You are in my prayers in hope you get off this path as I am afraid it was built by demons to lure you one step at a time further away from Christ. Who are you, to declare someone as a lost soul? Only the Father in Heaven can perceive what is in a man's heart. |
|
Originally Posted By RSR556: Who are you, to declare someone as a lost soul? Only the Father in Heaven can perceive what is in a man's heart. |
|
Originally Posted By RSR556: Who are you, to declare someone as a lost soul? Only the Father in Heaven can perceive what is in a man's heart. ““Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thorns, or figs from thistles? In the same way, every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus you will know them by their fruits.” Matthew 7:15-20 |
|
Originally Posted By Bohr_Adam: It makes sense when you realize they lack a solid grounding in Covenantal Theology. They start with a flawed foundational premise, and build understanding from there. I might pick on the Seventh Day Adventists, but the whole Millerite thing makes perfect sense in the context (early to mid 19th century America, KJV as word by word word of God, institutional Church that is described in Acts and which produced and preserved the "New Testament" scriptures is long gone as foundational premise of where it came about). Thus, we are left to make sense of God's design by turning text alone into novel doctrine. The strawman and wrong accusation of "replacement theology" does, at the very least, touch on a major difference in understanding this produces. No institutional Church = no priests = no new and eternal covenant = no new Israel = obsession with "old" Israel, a Jewish nation-state, as fulfilling prophecies historical Christianity always understood as relating to the Christian church. They don't see such a Church (hard to when you won't open your eyes) but they do see the modern country of Israel. What exactly does the term new Israel mean? |