Posted: 11/22/2023 2:34:41 AM EDT
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I started two batches on Nov. 8th. One an apple cider. Starting gravity 1.048. Just apple juice, a dash of pectic enzyme, and yeast. The other, a cherry cider with a little bit of honey (8 oz for a 1 gallon batch). Just cherry juice, honey, and yeast. SG of 1.065 Both with safcider AB-1 Just checked gravity... the straight apple cider appears done at .996. The cherry cider is 1.008 I transferred the straight apple cider to secondary to try to let it clear some more. The cherry cider I will check in a week or two and see if the gravity has dropped any. |
Never confuse faith that you will prevail in the end—which you can never afford to lose—with the discipline to confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be. - Adm James Stockdale
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Originally Posted By bgenlvtex: Not a brewer but I would not be surprised to find out the anti-microbial properties of honey would kill some kinds of yeast. In for the answer. I've made straight mead which uses honey as basically the only sugar. 2 or 3 pounds instead of 8 ounces. Mead does seem to take alot longer to fully ferment, tho. I always thought it was because of the higher gravity (1.100 to 1.120 or so) but that might only just be part of it. Could be honey just takes longer to break down. The cherry cider (with honey) I started is mostly done. Only got maybe another 8 or 10 points left. I'm glad I did the straight apple cider alongside it with the same yeast out of the same packet. Makes for a good control. Should know in a week. I'll test the gravity again and if it has dropped any further, that will be a dead giveaway and a good thing to know for future recipes. |
Never confuse faith that you will prevail in the end—which you can never afford to lose—with the discipline to confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be. - Adm James Stockdale
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My only experience with honey is putting .75lb of it in a Bells Hopslam clone recipe I've made a couple times, and it fermented out just fine in my normal ale timeframe (2-3 weeks). My understanding is that honey is a simple sugar and should ferment quickly and completely. I don't do ciders or meads, so can't comment on that, but I did try a hard seltzer recipe once, which is just sugar, water, and yeast nutrients. It stalled about halfway through and never recovered. I believe a yeast nutrient issue of some sort was the cause, even though I followed the directions exactly... there is nothing else it could be. With beer, you have a lot of that stuff coming from the grain. With cider/mead, I don't know. But temp or nutrients would be my first guesses. |
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checked the cherry cider w/ honey again... 1.006. Calling it done. Added 30 grams of sugar for prime and 75 grams of xylitol for sweetener and bottled. Not really sure why the cherry cider w/ honey didn't fully attenuate like the apple. Both used the same yeast and fermented in the same location at the same time. 72-75 farenheit the entire time. I gave them both plenty of air at the start and even gave some fermaid k to the cherry cider. Only thing I can figure is maybe there's some complex sugar in the honey that safcider ab1 doesn't eat? Or maybe the pH of the cherry cider was a little too low or something? But I doubt that. I might repeat this experiment but use red star cotes de blanc next time. eta: I suppose the yeast could have died or stalled or something for whatever reason. I hope that's not the case. Otherwise I'm liable to have some grenades here in a couple of weeks if it restarts and finishes off that last 6 points of gravity plus the sugar I added to prime. 
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Never confuse faith that you will prevail in the end—which you can never afford to lose—with the discipline to confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be. - Adm James Stockdale
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Just tried the cherry cider w/ honey. Possibly my best cider yet. I really like this one. This might become a recurring recipe. |
Never confuse faith that you will prevail in the end—which you can never afford to lose—with the discipline to confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be. - Adm James Stockdale
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Originally Posted By 1Andy2: I started two batches on Nov. 8th. One an apple cider. Starting gravity 1.048. Just apple juice, a dash of pectic enzyme, and yeast. The other, a cherry cider with a little bit of honey (8 oz for a 1 gallon batch). Just cherry juice, honey, and yeast. SG of 1.065 Both with safcider AB-1 Just checked gravity... the straight apple cider appears done at .996. The cherry cider is 1.008 I transferred the straight apple cider to secondary to try to let it clear some more. The cherry cider I will check in a week or two and see if the gravity has dropped any. Honey does not really take longer to ferment than anything else. Fermentation "speed" is influence by a lot of factors, but here are the big ones: 1) Original gravity 2) Yeast pitch size 3) Fermentation temperature 4) Yeast strain 5) Available nutrients I have had fermentations go very fast, I just made one that fermented to 15.9% ABV in 12 days, that was using 1118 which is a type of "Champagne yeast" and organic yeast nutrient. In general, honey lacks sufficient nitrogren for the yeast, so fermentation will be flow with intervention. |
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Originally Posted By djkest: Honey does not really take longer to ferment than anything else. Fermentation "speed" is influence by a lot of factors, but here are the big ones: 1) Original gravity 2) Yeast pitch size 3) Fermentation temperature 4) Yeast strain 5) Available nutrients I have had fermentations go very fast, I just made one that fermented to 15.9% ABV in 12 days, that was using 1118 which is a type of "Champagne yeast" and organic yeast nutrient. In general, honey lacks sufficient nitrogren for the yeast, so fermentation will be flow with intervention. My best guess is nutrients. I've been adding just a little bit of yeast nutrients to all my batches and getting more consistent fermentation these days. |
Never confuse faith that you will prevail in the end—which you can never afford to lose—with the discipline to confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be. - Adm James Stockdale
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never underestimate the stupidity of other people
Joined:
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Posts:
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EE: 100% (29)
GA, USA
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Originally Posted By steviesterno16: Did you get organic/preservative free cider as a start? I didn’t once and had the preservatives kill most of my yeast so fermentation took almost forever. I check the ingredients. The HEB juice I've been using has no sulfites or sulfates. But that's a good general tip. |
Never confuse faith that you will prevail in the end—which you can never afford to lose—with the discipline to confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be. - Adm James Stockdale
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Originally Posted By 1Andy2: I check the ingredients. The HEB juice I've been using has no sulfites or sulfates. But that's a good general tip. It could also have a sorbate in it. In general, anything other than an acid could be a fermentation inhibitor. |
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Originally Posted By djkest: It could also have a sorbate in it. In general, anything other than an acid could be a fermentation inhibitor. That’s what I read, too. My best score was end of fall, local grocery store was blowing out organic cider with nothing besides apples listed as the ingredients. 20 gallons was like $45. Haven’t found a deal like that again. |
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I've got 5 meads brewing right now. Two at 51 days, three at 40 days. All with 2.5 pounds of honey, topping off a 1 gallon jug with either water, V8 splash peach mango, V8 splash tropical blend, V8 splash fruit medley or apple juice. All are in secondary fermentation and I'm trying to get them to clear up, but they're drinkable after about a month and a half of fermenting. |
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Originally Posted By bgenlvtex: Not a brewer but I would not be surprised to find out the anti-microbial properties of honey would kill some kinds of yeast. In for the answer. It does not. Pure honey with low moisture content pretty much never goes bad. But if the moisture content gets too high it can spontaneously ferment. A 50/50 mix of honey / water will ferment, although it would be very sweet and probably wouldn't ferment to dryness in most cases. |
Proud millennial.
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Originally Posted By TheBeaverRetriever: I've got 5 meads brewing right now. Two at 51 days, three at 40 days. All with 2.5 pounds of honey, topping off a 1 gallon jug with either water, V8 splash peach mango, V8 splash tropical blend, V8 splash fruit medley or apple juice. All are in secondary fermentation and I'm trying to get them to clear up, but they're drinkable after about a month and a half of fermenting. A healthy ferment should be done in 28 days tops, most of mine finish in 20 days or less. I'd also recommend getting a widemouth jar and using whole fruit like blueberries or raspberries. Ultimately V8 splash has a lot of stuff in it that you don't need like high fructose corn syrup and sucralose (Splenda) |
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I saw it on the shelf, I didn't see any sorbates, so I experimented.  They won't win points for clarity - this much I can guarantee.I'll try your wide mouth method when I switch to fruits. My blackberries are producing 4 cups per day so I'll set some aside for when this batch is done. Thanks for the insight! |
The sun shines on every dog's ass once in a while.
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I own a commercial brewery and did all the brewing up until the last year. Don't use any products with any additives in it. I'm not saying you have to use organic, I'm saying don't use anything with any preservatives. Those preservatives are there to prevent anything happening to the product. That will mess with your fermentation. I haven't seen anyone here mentioning temperature of fermentation. That's a big deal. I've brewed with honey and have had no problems and fermentation was always done in 21 days or so. There are a ton of variables that could be affecting your fermentation schedule. It would be helpful if you listed out your process. |
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Originally Posted By AlexAdams43: I own a commercial brewery and did all the brewing up until the last year. Don't use any products with any additives in it. I'm not saying you have to use organic, I'm saying don't use anything with any preservatives. Those preservatives are there to prevent anything happening to the product. That will mess with your fermentation. I haven't seen anyone here mentioning temperature of fermentation. That's a big deal. I've brewed with honey and have had no problems and fermentation was always done in 21 days or so. There are a ton of variables that could be affecting your fermentation schedule. It would be helpful if you listed out your process. For store-bought juice, I jusr aerate and pitch yeast with a little fermaid k. For fresh pressed, I pitch crushef campden tablets in the juice 24 hours prior to yeast. Ferment in closet at about 74F. For cider, I check gravity after 10 days or so. If it's done, I transfer to another container with a solution of priming sugar and xylitol for back sweetening. I do ensure the solution is cool enough not to kill the yeast. Then bottle condition for a couple of weeks. Mead I let sit long enough to clear out pretty well. A month? Then I bottle and cork like wine, no priming sugar. Then I let it age a few months. I just had some of the pressed cherry mead. It's good but very tart. That's been my latest takeaway...don't use too much cherry juice in anything. |
Never confuse faith that you will prevail in the end—which you can never afford to lose—with the discipline to confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be. - Adm James Stockdale
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Originally Posted By 1Andy2: For store-bought juice, I jusr aerate and pitch yeast with a little fermaid k. For fresh pressed, I pitch crushef campden tablets in the juice 24 hours prior to yeast. Ferment in closet at about 74F. For cider, I check gravity after 10 days or so. If it's done, I transfer to another container with a solution of priming sugar and xylitol for back sweetening. I do ensure the solution is cool enough not to kill the yeast. Then bottle condition for a couple of weeks. Mead I let sit long enough to clear out pretty well. A month? Then I bottle and cork like wine, no priming sugar. Then I let it age a few months. I just had some of the pressed cherry mead. It's good but very tart. That's been my latest takeaway...don't use too much cherry juice in anything. Originally Posted By 1Andy2: Originally Posted By AlexAdams43: I own a commercial brewery and did all the brewing up until the last year. Don't use any products with any additives in it. I'm not saying you have to use organic, I'm saying don't use anything with any preservatives. Those preservatives are there to prevent anything happening to the product. That will mess with your fermentation. I haven't seen anyone here mentioning temperature of fermentation. That's a big deal. I've brewed with honey and have had no problems and fermentation was always done in 21 days or so. There are a ton of variables that could be affecting your fermentation schedule. It would be helpful if you listed out your process. For store-bought juice, I jusr aerate and pitch yeast with a little fermaid k. For fresh pressed, I pitch crushef campden tablets in the juice 24 hours prior to yeast. Ferment in closet at about 74F. For cider, I check gravity after 10 days or so. If it's done, I transfer to another container with a solution of priming sugar and xylitol for back sweetening. I do ensure the solution is cool enough not to kill the yeast. Then bottle condition for a couple of weeks. Mead I let sit long enough to clear out pretty well. A month? Then I bottle and cork like wine, no priming sugar. Then I let it age a few months. I just had some of the pressed cherry mead. It's good but very tart. That's been my latest takeaway...don't use too much cherry juice in anything. Which yeast are you using? |
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Originally Posted By AlexAdams43: Which yeast are you using? I've used safcider ab1, cotes des blanc, and cider house select |
Never confuse faith that you will prevail in the end—which you can never afford to lose—with the discipline to confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be. - Adm James Stockdale
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Thanks. Good tip. I have plans to dig a cellar/bunker at some point. But that's a ways off. |
Never confuse faith that you will prevail in the end—which you can never afford to lose—with the discipline to confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be. - Adm James Stockdale