Posted: 1/17/2010 11:31:11 PM EDT
 I don't know what exactly the things are called, but I'm talking about the magical items where you plug it into one outlet and it creates 6 more to plug into. Here's a picture of what I'm talking about:
How safe are these things? My furnace room only have 2 outlets and I am looking to get a few more without needing to do a brand new wiring of something. What kind of things do I need to worry about if I use one of these things, aside from burning the place down. I'd like to avoid turning the 2 outlets into something like this:
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If you get one of those and
If it does not have overcurrent protection and If the wiring and/or circuit breaker in your house is not functioning properly You have the potential for fire. IE: with no, inadequate, or broken overcurrent protection, that expand-a-plug thing could pull more amps than the wire and receptacle are rated for. That = fire. Yes, I'm an electrician but I don't do houses. Lately I've been working on/around 13.8Kv switch gear. I hate 40 Cal suits. |
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If you get one of those and If it does not have overcurrent protection and How do I know if it has that? If the wiring and/or circuit breaker in your house is not functioning properly You have the potential for fire. IE: with no, inadequate, or broken overcurrent protection, that expand-a-plug thing could pull more amps than the wire and receptacle are rated for. That = fire. Yes, I'm an electrician but I don't do houses. Lately I've been working on/around 13.8Kv switch gear. I hate 40 Cal suits. |
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It should say it somewhere on the device itself - and probably on the package. Sometimes stuff like that has a red button that pops out when an overcurrent situation occurs. You push the button in to reset it. I'll take a picture of the outlet sometime and post it on this thread. |
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It should say it somewhere on the device itself - and probably on the package. Sometimes stuff like that has a red button that pops out when an overcurrent situation occurs. You push the button in to reset it. I'll take a picture of the outlet sometime and post it on this thread. I'm sick and not going to work, so I'll watch for it. |
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Most of these answers are right-on. (The surge protector* is something else.)
For this discussion, think of current (also known as "amperage") as "HEAT." If you plug in a 50 amp device into a receptacle that is only able to handle 10 amps, you will overheat the receptacle. If your wall sockets are capable of delivering 15 amps, and you plug a 15 amp device into ONE of those sockets, you are GTG. If you plug your 6-receptacle unit into this 2-plug receptacle... you can use ONE 15-amp device, or three 5-amp devices, or six 2.5 amp devices. Capiche? Alternatively, if you can manage to keep from using all 6 devices at once, you can use a max of 15 amps at one time. (For example, one 5-amp coffee warmer and one 10-amp drill press.) For maximum safety, make sure that WHATEVER you buy is UL approved, and that it has a reset switch. The reset switch is a 15-amp circuit breaker that shuts the device off when you exceed the maximum rating of the device. Make sense? *A surge protector doesn't help with overcurrent problems... it only helps with "transient" surges, like from lightning strikes, etc. |
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A direct plug-in outlet multiplier is called a current tap. I was one of the engineers that used to List them for Underwriters Laboratories.
A good friend of mine was the engineer that Listed the cord connected ones (temporary power taps) for UL. You can get either type with or without supplementary circuitry (overcurrent protection, transient voltage surge suppression, etc.) I use both types in my house, but I know what to look for when choosing one. Definitely do NOT buy the cheapo ones. As odd as it may sound, a good way to judge the quality of one of these (or a receptacle (outlet), switch, etc.) is by weight. The heavier the unit, the more likely it is to be good quality. (Although some manufacturers used to "pot" their units to try to fool people.) |
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Quoted: Quoted: It should say it somewhere on the device itself - and probably on the package. Sometimes stuff like that has a red button that pops out when an overcurrent situation occurs. You push the button in to reset it. I'll take a picture of the outlet sometime and post it on this thread. I'd be willing to bet if you bought it in the past 10 years then it is a "surge protector" meaning it has a fuse or other from of emergency cut off. If it was bought within the past 15 years it's likely a surge protector... before that and I don't know. Some will have a hatch on them so you can replace the fuse. Some are use until they fry themselves and buy a new one. I've never had one fry itself. |
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Outlets are eventually connected through a breaker switch somewhere upstream (or a fuse if you have an older house)
That switch (or fuse) is rated for a specific maximum current. Assuming everything is wired properly and the breaker (or) fuse is in proper working condition, those safety devices should protect the outlet from drawing too much current. 1st figure out which circuit you are on. Is the panel labeled? Do you know which breaker this outlet in question connects through? If not, simply turn them off and on again one at a time until you figure it out through process of elimination. Now that you know which breaker it is, what is the number etched into the switch? There should be a number, like 15, 20, 25, 30....something around that. This is the maximum forward current rating, in Amps. (actually, Amperes) This is the most current you can pull through this circuit without blowing it up (tripping the breaker) Next, check the UL tags on the plug cables (or stickers somewhere on the devices) of the things you want to connect to the outlet expansion device. Each label should list the maximum current rating (might be a power rating given in watts, if so post here and someone can work out the current for you) Add up the total amount of current (the aggregate of all the devices you want to plug into this outlet) and compare that with the rating on the breaker. If you will pull less current than the breaker rating, you are good to go. Keep in mind that the UL tags / stickers are the 'maximum' rating, the device will probably pull less. (Motors for example pull a lot of current to get started but then use a lot less to stay running, like if you plug in a refrigerator or start a washing machine...lots of current for the first few seconds, then it levels off once its running) As a rule of thumb, things with motors or things that generate heat draw lots of current. Small consumer electronics use very little. A blowdryer draws a LOT of current. A laptop AC adapter draws a very small amount. |
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It should say it somewhere on the device itself - and probably on the package. Sometimes stuff like that has a red button that pops out when an overcurrent situation occurs. You push the button in to reset it. I'll take a picture of the outlet sometime and post it on this thread. I'm sick and not going to work, so I'll watch for it. I didn't get a chance to take the picture today, I will try to do it tomorrow. Is it possible to just hire an electrician to come in and add some extra outlets in the furnace room? Any idea what that would cost? |
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I didn't get a chance to take the picture today, I will try to do it tomorrow. Is it possible to just hire an electrician to come in and add some extra outlets in the furnace room? Any idea what that would cost? Sorry, but I could not even begin to guess at what a residential electrician would charge you. Hopefully one of the other posters can give you an idea. |
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I didn't get a chance to take the picture today, I will try to do it tomorrow. Is it possible to just hire an electrician to come in and add some extra outlets in the furnace room? Any idea what that would cost? Sorry, but I could not even begin to guess at what a residential electrician would charge you. Hopefully one of the other posters can give you an idea. I actually have another electrician question now that I think of it. Currently there is a fluorescent shop light in the same room. Said light is not working at all, even with new bulbs put into it. The fixture itself appears to be piggy-backed onto some kind of a circuit that another light fixture and its light switch are connected to. I will need to get a closer look at things but it appears that the power cable for the fluorescent fixture is connected to some screws on the inside of the other light bulb's box. Does this make any sense at all? Or is my description of what is going on as abysmal as it seems when I type it now?
Branching off of that, would it be possible for me to add an additional pair of outlets on my own? The cable running to the fluorescent fixture looks like it's the basic black/white/bare power cable. If my YouTube video watching was right, isn't that the exact cable you need to hook an outlet up to? Or have I succeeded in learning enough to be exceptionally dangerous and possibly electrocute myself or burn my place down?
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: It should say it somewhere on the device itself - and probably on the package. Sometimes stuff like that has a red button that pops out when an overcurrent situation occurs. You push the button in to reset it. I'll take a picture of the outlet sometime and post it on this thread. I'm sick and not going to work, so I'll watch for it. I didn't get a chance to take the picture today, I will try to do it tomorrow. Is it possible to just hire an electrician to come in and add some extra outlets in the furnace room? Any idea what that would cost? Unless you are running a lot of high draw devices, it shouldn't be necessary. Most residential wiring will have 3-6 outlets daisy-chained onto each 15 ampere breaker. And if you plug 2 heaters onto such a circuit, you will trip the breaker. But since each appliance is plugged into separate outlets, the heat generated from each plug connection is easier to dissipate so the breaker trips long before anything gets hot. Not so with those gang outlets, they concentrate the heat which makes them slightly less safer. As far as rewiring costs? To get it done with new circuits, you are looking at big bucks as new breakers with all new wire must be added, if the existing panel can be expanded and proper breakers can be found. |
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It should say it somewhere on the device itself - and probably on the package. Sometimes stuff like that has a red button that pops out when an overcurrent situation occurs. You push the button in to reset it. I'll take a picture of the outlet sometime and post it on this thread. I'm sick and not going to work, so I'll watch for it. I didn't get a chance to take the picture today, I will try to do it tomorrow. Is it possible to just hire an electrician to come in and add some extra outlets in the furnace room? Any idea what that would cost? Unless you are running a lot of high draw devices, it shouldn't be necessary. Most residential wiring will have 3-6 outlets daisy-chained onto each 15 ampere breaker. And if you plug 2 heaters onto such a circuit, you will trip the breaker. But since each appliance is plugged into separate outlets, the heat generated from each plug connection is easier to dissipate so the breaker trips long before anything gets hot. Not so with those gang outlets, they concentrate the heat which makes them slightly less safer. As far as rewiring costs? To get it done with new circuits, you are looking at big bucks as new breakers with all new wire must be added, if the existing panel can be expanded and proper breakers can be found. I will have to check the respective breaker for the furnace room, but from what I can tell, what is hooked up to it now are 5-6 fluorescent light fixtures, about 6-8 pairs of outlets, and a pair of single incandescent light bulbs. There is literally one room with 6-8 pairs of outlets in it  . I pretty much have nothing hooked up into the outlets themselves. I love how they put 8 outlet pairs in one room but only one outlet pair in the furnace room itself
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It should say it somewhere on the device itself - and probably on the package. Sometimes stuff like that has a red button that pops out when an overcurrent situation occurs. You push the button in to reset it. I'll take a picture of the outlet sometime and post it on this thread. I'm sick and not going to work, so I'll watch for it. I didn't get a chance to take the picture today, I will try to do it tomorrow. Is it possible to just hire an electrician to come in and add some extra outlets in the furnace room? Any idea what that would cost? For a furnace room, I would just run surface metal raceway. It may not look as nice, but it would be a heck of a lot cheaper than fishing wires through walls. |
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From personal experience I have used the boxes that turn 2 outlets into 6. Most of the time 6 things are not plugged in, but are there if I need them.  I need to come up with some kind of a solution. My washer is already plugged into one of the outlets, so I am left with only one to work with. |
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I actually have another electrician question now that I think of it. Currently there is a fluorescent shop light in the same room. Said light is not working at all, even with new bulbs put into it. The fixture itself appears to be piggy-backed onto some kind of a circuit that another light fixture and its light switch are connected to. I will need to get a closer look at things but it appears that the power cable for the fluorescent fixture is connected to some screws on the inside of the other light bulb's box. Does this make any sense at all? Or is my description of what is going on as abysmal as it seems when I type it now?
Branching off of that, would it be possible for me to add an additional pair of outlets on my own? The cable running to the fluorescent fixture looks like it's the basic black/white/bare power cable. If my YouTube video watching was right, isn't that the exact cable you need to hook an outlet up to? Or have I succeeded in learning enough to be exceptionally dangerous and possibly electrocute myself or burn my place down? 1. First thing you gotta do is figure out what things your gonna use in the new receptacles. Specifically, how many amps will they pull. 2. Then you need to figure out how many amps are being pulled on the light circuit you want to tap into. You do not want to overload that circuit. As a general rule, a 20 amp breaker will trip around 18 amps - give or take. When they get old, they'll trip with less load when they heat up. 3. If it was me, I would not tap off the light fixture. I'd run another separate circuit. Here's where I recommend you get an electrician to look at things. 4. Assuming you're gonna tap off the light fixture, you need to figure out why the one fixture isn't working. Does one fixture work, and the other doesn't? Bottom line is you need to make sure there is power there. 5. Then you need to make sure you tap into the hot and not the switch leg. Unless of course you want the switch to control your new receptacle. 6. You also need to be aware the white wire (normally the neutral) can be used as a constant hot to feed a switch. That can confuse people, and it can hurt. This stuff absolutely isn't rocket science, but it can get confusing. Although after you do it a few times, you'll get the hang of it. As far as your description, I kinda sorta can visualize it. If you could take a pic... |
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From personal experience I have used the boxes that turn 2 outlets into 6. Most of the time 6 things are not plugged in, but are there if I need them. I need to come up with some kind of a solution. My washer is already plugged into one of the outlets, so I am left with only one to work with. National Electric code requires a clothes washer to be on it's own dedicated circuit and not share other pluggeed in items. FWIW. |
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I actually have another electrician question now that I think of it. Currently there is a fluorescent shop light in the same room. Said light is not working at all, even with new bulbs put into it. The fixture itself appears to be piggy-backed onto some kind of a circuit that another light fixture and its light switch are connected to. I will need to get a closer look at things but it appears that the power cable for the fluorescent fixture is connected to some screws on the inside of the other light bulb's box. Does this make any sense at all? Or is my description of what is going on as abysmal as it seems when I type it now?
Branching off of that, would it be possible for me to add an additional pair of outlets on my own? The cable running to the fluorescent fixture looks like it's the basic black/white/bare power cable. If my YouTube video watching was right, isn't that the exact cable you need to hook an outlet up to? Or have I succeeded in learning enough to be exceptionally dangerous and possibly electrocute myself or burn my place down? 1. First thing you gotta do is figure out what things your gonna use in the new receptacles. Specifically, how many amps will they pull. 2. Then you need to figure out how many amps are being pulled on the light circuit you want to tap into. You do not want to overload that circuit. As a general rule, a 20 amp breaker will trip around 18 amps - give or take. When they get old, they'll trip with less load when they heat up. 3. If it was me, I would not tap off the light fixture. I'd run another separate circuit. Here's where I recommend you get an electrician to look at things. 4. Assuming you're gonna tap off the light fixture, you need to figure out why the one fixture isn't working. Does one fixture work, and the other doesn't? Bottom line is you need to make sure there is power there. 5. Then you need to make sure you tap into the hot and not the switch leg. Unless of course you want the switch to control your new receptacle. 6. You also need to be aware the white wire (normally the neutral) can be used as a constant hot to feed a switch. That can confuse people, and it can hurt. This stuff absolutely isn't rocket science, but it can get confusing. Although after you do it a few times, you'll get the hang of it. As far as your description, I kinda sorta can visualize it. If you could take a pic... I took down the old fluorescent shop light today. Shut off the breaker and disconnected all of the wires. I went out and bought a volt tester and confirmed that the cable to the shop light is carrying power. I also bought a new fluorescent shop light that I allows the direct connection of the black/white/ground to the light instead if just plugging it into an outlet. Here's what I'm thinking of doing before I just hook things up as is. If I were to hook up the new fluorescent shop light as things currently are, then the switch on the wall which turns on the incandescent light will control when the shop light comes on. That means that I will always have to have both on at once, because the switch for the incandescent controls the power flow to the shop light. Would it be possible to put a light switch in between the incandescent light and the shop light? That way I could have the incandescent light turned on and leave the shop light off until I needed it. The problem with this setup is that I once again can never have just the shop light on. I am going to do an MSPAINT to illustrate what I'm talking about. Stand by for a few. |
Alrighty, here is the setup.
Here is how things seems to work. -Switch A (SA) controls Incandescent Light 1 (IL1). Turning SA on turns on IL1. -SA controls the power flow to Shop Light 2 (SL2). Turning SA on allows the power to flow to SL2 and as such turns it on. -Incandescent Light 3 (IL3) can be turned on independent of SA. IL3 is the old school "pull-chain" type of turning on method. SA can be turned off but IL3 can still be turned on fine. -All three lights (IL1, SL2, IL3) are completely killed if I turn off one breaker at the power panel. Here is my problem. By hooking SL2 up as things are now, SA controls everything. Since SA is tied directly to IL1, I can never have SL2 on without IL1 being on as well. If I put a power switch on the cable between IL1 and SL2, I am allowed to have IL1 on and SL2 off, but never SL2 on and IL1 off. I wonder if there is a way to tie SL2 to the cable for IL3, since IL3 runs independently of SA. Does any of this make sense?
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Heck, you know this stuff better than me.
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I wonder if there is a way to tie SL2 to the cable for IL3, since IL3 runs independently of SA. Does any of this make sense? Yes it makes sense, and yes you can. IL3 has a constant hot at the fixture. I can tell that because you told me you can operate the light independant of SA. If your drawing is correct, that constant hot must also be in IL1; there's no other way for it to get to IL3 except from/through IL1. All 3 lights are inop when you turn off one breaker. That tells me they're all on the same circuit. If there is only one neutral and one circuit in IL1, then all you have to do is take the hot wire from SL2 and remove it from the switch leg, and re-attatch it to the constant hot - the one that goes to IL3. But if you do that, the light will be on all the time. Without being there, it's gonna be kinda tough for me to tell you which one is the switch leg. I've seen a black wire used, and white wire used, even a green wire used. But it you find the hot (black, red or blue) wire coming FROM IL1, it should be attached to the switch leg wire. And if all those wires are in IL1 as your pic details, that could be tough. Is there a box nearby that feeds that pic? It might be easier for you just to remove SL2's wire from IL1, run from the box to a switch, then from the switch to SL2. It all kinda depends on how far things are apart, and how close to the first box after the panel SL2 is. We generally take the shortest route from the hot as it's cheaper. Hopefully that makes sense. I'm still under the weather a bit, and worked 13 hrs today. If you continue to explain it as you did above, we'll get this sorted out. ETA: switch leg = wire coming from the switch going to a fixture that will be hot when the switch is on and not hot when the switch is off. |
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Heck, you know this stuff better than me.
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I wonder if there is a way to tie SL2 to the cable for IL3, since IL3 runs independently of SA. Does any of this make sense? Yes it makes sense, and yes you can. IL3 has a constant hot at the fixture. I can tell that because you told me you can operate the light independant of SA. If your drawing is correct, that constant hot must also be in IL1; there's no other way for it to get to IL3 except from/through IL1. All 3 lights are inop when you turn off one breaker. That tells me they're all on the same circuit. If there is only one neutral and one circuit in IL1, then all you have to do is take the hot wire from SL2 and remove it from the switch leg, and re-attatch it to the constant hot - the one that goes to IL3. But if you do that, the light will be on all the time. Without being there, it's gonna be kinda tough for me to tell you which one is the switch leg. I've seen a black wire used, and white wire used, even a green wire used. But it you find the hot (black, red or blue) wire coming FROM IL1, it should be attached to the switch leg wire. And if all those wires are in IL1 as your pic details, that could be tough. Is there a box nearby that feeds that pic? It might be easier for you just to remove SL2's wire from IL1, run from the box to a switch, then from the switch to SL2. It all kinda depends on how far things are apart, and how close to the first box after the panel SL2 is. We generally take the shortest route from the hot as it's cheaper. Hopefully that makes sense. I'm still under the weather a bit, and worked 13 hrs today. If you continue to explain it as you did above, we'll get this sorted out. ETA: switch leg = wire coming from the switch going to a fixture that will be hot when the switch is on and not hot when the switch is off. I have tomorrow off and I will take a bunch of photographs. All I know is that the fixture that IL1 is hooked in to has a rat's nest of wires inside of it
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IL3 is fed from the panel
IL1 is fed from IL3, a wire should be coming from IL3 that goes to IL1 A white wire should be connected to the fixture and the black wire should be in a wire nut and go to the switch (switch leg) From the switch will be the black wire that came from the wire nut in IL1 on one terminal, a ground wire and a white wire that goes back to IL1 and connects to the fixtures other terminal. SL2 should be connected to the wire coming back from the switch and the wire that connected to the fixture from IL3 To get SL2 to have power all the time you have to take the wire that is connected to the switch leg, the wire coming back from the switch that is connected to the fixture and put it in the wire nut that go to the switch( the one that came from IL3) If you do this SL2 will always be on. I think that's right but I haven't been to bed yet Hope I helped |
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Alright here are some pictures.
First we have IL3. I'm starting to think that everything seems to start here. Here is a picture of the bulb and the wire coming into and going out of it: 
The left cable does not go through IL3, despite what it looks like. The cable on the right of IL3 goes back to a huge mass of cables, shown in the background here: 
It seems that IL3 is not hooked into IL1 in any way. The left cable fooled me into thinking the two were connected. Here is IL1: 
One of the cables on the right comes from IL3 and one on the left goes to FL2. And lastly, this is where the cable ends and where I want to put FL2: 
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And lastly, this is where the cable ends and where I want to put FL2: Did you mean "SL2" rather than "FL2?" Here's what I'm thinking you want to do: you want to put SL2 where the wires are in your last pic, and you want to switch it independently from the other lights. This might be real easy. You need to find the non-switched hot. Seems like you know how to use a meter. Please note: when I say "check the wires black to ground" that means put one meter probe on the black wire, and the other meter probe on the ground wire. Just covering my butt here...
Please make sure there is only one switch on this circuit. If there is another, that will change things. As far as I know, there is only one switch. 1. Turn the breaker for that circuit on. 2. Turn the light switch off. 3. Be very careful. 4. Be very careful. Check the wires black to ground, and then white to ground. We want the black to have 120v, and the white to have zero (or < 5) volts. Turn the switch on, and check the wires black to ground, and then white to ground. Again, we want the black to have 120v, and the white to have zero (or < 5) volts. IF the white wire has zero volts in BOTH tests above: With the switch off, check the wires black to white. If you have 120v, that black is the constant hot, and the white is a neutral. I'll stop here as the variables are endless - depending on your test results. ETA: the above is the best case scenario. |
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And lastly, this is where the cable ends and where I want to put FL2: Did you mean "SL2" rather than "FL2?" Here's what I'm thinking you want to do: you want to put SL2 where the wires are in your last pic, and you want to switch it independently from the other lights. This might be real easy. You need to find the non-switched hot. Seems like you know how to use a meter. Please note: when I say "check the wires black to ground" that means put one meter probe on the black wire, and the other meter probe on the ground wire. Just covering my butt here...
Please make sure there is only one switch on this circuit. If there is another, that will change things. As far as I know, there is only one switch. 1. Turn the breaker for that circuit on. 2. Turn the light switch off. 3. Be very careful. 4. Be very careful. Check the wires black to ground, and then white to ground. We want the black to have 120v, and the white to have zero (or < 5) volts. Turn the switch on, and check the wires black to ground, and then white to ground. Again, we want the black to have 120v, and the white to have zero (or < 5) volts. IF the white wire has zero volts in BOTH tests above: With the switch off, check the wires black to white. If you have 120v, that black is the constant hot, and the white is a neutral. I'll stop here as the variables are endless - depending on your test results. ETA: the above is the best case scenario. I worry about safety because there what looks like 5 black wires all going to a single wire nut. I guess I would have to have the breaker off, de-nut them, separate them all out, then test each individually with the black-to-ground thing that you're suggesting? Tonight I did end up hanging and wiring the shop light to the cable from IL1 so that they are both turned on at the same time. I figured it would be a good chance to get my feet wet and build some confidence. Now I can go back and hopefully find a way to hook it up with an independent switch from IL1's setup. Thank you so much for the help you've given me so far 
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It should say it somewhere on the device itself - and probably on the package. Sometimes stuff like that has a red button that pops out when an overcurrent situation occurs. You push the button in to reset it put tape over the button to keep it from popping out.
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| In IL3 is there one white one black and one ground? You said that there is a wire going into and coming out of it, but then say that one of the wires does not go into it even though it looks like it. If there is only one wire going to IL3, an easy way to do it would be to cap off the wire that you want to put SL2 at or remove it from IL1, buy some romex wire and wire staples and go from SL3 to where you want to put SL2. There is alot of wires in IL1. |
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In IL3 is there one white one black and one ground? You said that there is a wire going into and coming out of it, but then say that one of the wires does not go into it even though it looks like it. If there is only one wire going to IL3, an easy way to do it would be to cap off the wire that you want to put SL2 at or remove it from IL1, buy some romex wire and wire staples and go from SL3 to where you want to put SL2. There is alot of wires in IL1. Yeah for some reason IL1 is the hub for everything. Inside the fixture is an absolute mess of wires 
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And lastly, this is where the cable ends and where I want to put FL2: Did you mean "SL2" rather than "FL2?" Here's what I'm thinking you want to do: you want to put SL2 where the wires are in your last pic, and you want to switch it independently from the other lights. This might be real easy. You need to find the non-switched hot. Seems like you know how to use a meter. Please note: when I say "check the wires black to ground" that means put one meter probe on the black wire, and the other meter probe on the ground wire. Just covering my butt here...
Please make sure there is only one switch on this circuit. If there is another, that will change things. As far as I know, there is only one switch. 1. Turn the breaker for that circuit on. 2. Turn the light switch off. 3. Be very careful. 4. Be very careful. Check the wires black to ground, and then white to ground. We want the black to have 120v, and the white to have zero (or < 5) volts. Turn the switch on, and check the wires black to ground, and then white to ground. Again, we want the black to have 120v, and the white to have zero (or < 5) volts. IF the white wire has zero volts in BOTH tests above: With the switch off, check the wires black to white. If you have 120v, that black is the constant hot, and the white is a neutral. I'll stop here as the variables are endless - depending on your test results. ETA: the above is the best case scenario. I worry about safety because there what looks like 5 black wires all going to a single wire nut. I guess I would have to have the breaker off, de-nut them, separate them all out, then test each individually with the black-to-ground thing that you're suggesting? Tonight I did end up hanging and wiring the shop light to the cable from IL1 so that they are both turned on at the same time. I figured it would be a good chance to get my feet wet and build some confidence. Now I can go back and hopefully find a way to hook it up with an independent switch from IL1's setup. Thank you so much for the help you've given me so far See the red stuff. No, not suggesting that. You said you wanted to put a fixture "where the cable ends." My instructions were how to check "where the cable ends" to see if that was a constant hot, or a switched hot. That is an incredibly quick option - if it was a constant hot. Especially considering how you said that one box was a mess of wires. That's why I would avoid that box altogether if possible. Also, if you add more wires to that box, it may exceed the wire fill limits. I'd have to know the size of the box, the number of wires, and the size of wires to figure that out. |
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It should say it somewhere on the device itself - and probably on the package. Sometimes stuff like that has a red button that pops out when an overcurrent situation occurs. You push the button in to reset it put tape over the button to keep it from popping out.
~ And a penny behind the fuse... 
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it the weird plate thing your talking about the box with red and white low volt wires going to the screws? If it is that's a transformer, probably for your doorbell. What did you want to do with this outlet? I was trying to figure out if it would handle one of those outlet expander things that I posted about in the original post. |
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After doing some more scouring, I have found the line that is always hot unless you kill the respective circuit breaker. It comes in from the panel, into a box where it gets spliced off for power to IL3, IL1 (which powers SL2), and the outlet pair which I've already shown pictures of.
Instead of trying to splice into IL1 or IL3, wouldn't it be easier to splice into the box where there are a manageable number of wires and hook up the light switch for SL2 from there? I would have to rewire SL2 to come off of this new splice and switch, but that shouldn't be too hard. While I'm at it, I wonder if I should splice prior to the new switch and throw in a pair of outlets over by the workbench area. Thoughts? |
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Hire an electrician, before you kill yourself or worse, someone else. I don't think I'm really doing anything unreasonably dangerous here. Obviously electricity if nothing to mess with, but I am researching what I want to do extensively before I do it and am following all safety procedures. |
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Hire an electrician, before you kill yourself or worse, someone else. I don't think I'm really doing anything unreasonably dangerous here. Obviously electricity if nothing to mess with, but I am researching what I want to do extensively before I do it and am following all safety procedures. Just remember 1 thing... electricity travels near the speed of light. |
| Can someone also explain to me the different between wire size (aka gauge) and hooking things up? Some of the wires in the furnace room say they are 12 Ground (I'm assuming that means 12 gauge?) while others say 14 Ground (once again, I'm assuming this means 14 gauge). What does this mean as far as hooking things up? |
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Generally 12/2 is for 20amp circuits and 14/2 is for 15amp Is there an issue if you splice a 14/2 onto a 12/2 cable? Everything is running off of a 15 amp breaker. My understanding is that as long as you are not putting 14 gauge onto a 20AMP breaker, you should be alright. The again, why worry about a possible overload and instead put 12/2 in there just to be safe? |
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Is there an issue if you splice a 14/2 onto a 12/2 cable? Everything is running off of a 15 amp breaker. My understanding is that as long as you are not putting 14 gauge onto a 20AMP breaker, you should be alright. The again, why worry about a possible overload and instead put 12/2 in there just to be safe? My first answer is: Don't do it. Here's why: Something somewhere (possibly) needed the current carrying capacity of that #12 wire. Pretend it's a Training Mock-Up for the Space Shuttle Door Gunner, and it pulls 16 amps. So from the Mock-Up you have 20 feet of #12 wire. But it's not enough to get to the panel. But you do have 15 feet of #14 wire. So you splice the #12 to the #14, and hook that up to a 15 amp breaker. Ultimately, the possibility exists that you will pull 16 amps through a #14 wire. And then you're relying on the breaker to trip before the wire burns. Lesson: you have to figure in what the load (amps) of the device is at the end of the wire, along with wire size, and breaker size. That borders on a far fetched example, but it's something that needs to be considered. ETA: And I'll tell you this: I would never do that in my home. |
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Instead of trying to splice into IL1 or IL3, wouldn't it be easier to splice into the box where there are a manageable number of wires and hook up the light switch for SL2 from there? I would have to rewire SL2 to come off of this new splice and switch, but that shouldn't be too hard. While I'm at it, I wonder if I should splice prior to the new switch and throw in a pair of outlets over by the workbench area. Thoughts? Easiest way would be to tie into the hot wire in that box. Run the wire to the switch box. Take another wire from the switch box to a receptacle box. Just make sure you don't tie in to the switched hot in the switch box - unless of course you want your receptacle switched. And remember you'll have to bring a neutral down to the switch (not normally needed there) so you'll have it at the receptacle. |
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Is there an issue if you splice a 14/2 onto a 12/2 cable? Everything is running off of a 15 amp breaker. My understanding is that as long as you are not putting 14 gauge onto a 20AMP breaker, you should be alright. The again, why worry about a possible overload and instead put 12/2 in there just to be safe? My first answer is: Don't do it. Here's why: Something somewhere (possibly) needed the current carrying capacity of that #12 wire. Pretend it's a Training Mock-Up for the Space Shuttle Door Gunner, and it pulls 16 amps. So from the Mock-Up you have 20 feet of #12 wire. But it's not enough to get to the panel. But you do have 15 feet of #14 wire. So you splice the #12 to the #14, and hook that up to a 15 amp breaker. Ultimately, the possibility exists that you will pull 16 amps through a #14 wire. And then you're relying on the breaker to trip before the wire burns. Lesson: you have to figure in what the load (amps) of the device is at the end of the wire, along with wire size, and breaker size. That borders on a far fetched example, but it's something that needs to be considered. ETA: And I'll tell you this: I would never do that in my home. After scouring some more of the lines it looks like they put in a sole 14 gauge line to run to IL3. Everything else looks to be 12 gauge. Ultimately it all ends up in a 15 amp breaker. |