[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Enlist vs OCS (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 6/18/2013 10:55:54 AM EDT
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I know this is GD so I don't expect a whole lot, but hopefully some of you can help me gain some insight.
Backstory: graduating April 2014 with BS in economics from very well respected program. 3.32 GPA. Over the past year, I have been exploring military service as a post grad option. I have worked for a publicly traded wholesale company for 3 summers, doing acquisition and finance work. I find this enjoyable, though not sure if I want to do it for the rest of my life. As far as the military is concerned, I was initially attracted to flying for one of the branches. With recent budget cuts however, I imagine the pickings are slim. Therefore, I have been heavily researching enlisting in the army either 11x option 40 (Rangers) or 18x (SF), leaning more heavily towards the former. I have kept myself in great physical shape and am following prescribed training as if I were to enlist as we speak. Have not taken the ASVAB, but have done many online versions and scores very well. Basically, I'm soliciting your thoughts on my chances at a flight contract. Also, any pertinent information swaying me to the infantry side would be helpful. I know that all options I am looking at are extremely rigorous and have high attrition rates... That being said, I know that the proper mindset makes all the difference and that is something I have strengthened and will continue to develop over time. Thanks for your responses, one way or another. |
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Topic already in GD.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1498046_Enlist_vs_OCS.html |
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OCS I'm not a vet. My dad was instructor at Benning and OCS instructor. He would have told you to do OCS. If you flunk out?..guess what you go to AD enlisted. The first part of OCS is basic. So might as well shoot for officer. That was the advice I heard him tell others. |
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Are you going to kick yourself in the nuts for the rest of your life with regret if you don't do it? Yes or no question. More and more this is becoming something I would regret if I didn't do. The question between air vs infantry is the harder part. Last thing I want to do is OCS in the army, then sit behind a computer. Thus, I would be more willing to enlist and take my chances doing something like rangers or sf if a flying opportunity wasn't an option. |
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It depends entirely on how you want to serve. Do you want to be an officer and do officer things or do you want to be enlisted and do enlisted things? If you're looking at making this a career, you may want to remember that officers tend to live higher on the hog.
Similarly, if your heart is set on flying, give the Marines a look. As recently as several years ago, they offered flight contracts, as in guaranteed to go through the flight pipeline so long as you were able to hold up your end. If for some reason you washed out, you left the Corps and were not reassigned according the Corps' needs. I do not know if this is still an option. Whatever you decide, good luck. |
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Are you going to kick yourself in the nuts for the rest of your life with regret if you don't do it? Yes or no question. More and more this is becoming something I would regret if I didn't do. The question between air vs infantry is the harder part. Last thing I want to do is OCS in the army, then sit behind a computer. Thus, I would be more willing to enlist and take my chances doing something like rangers or sf if a flying opportunity wasn't an option. Rangers and SF have officers, too. My thinking is, if you spent the resources obtaining a degree, why would you not want to take full advantage? Go to OCS--it makes sense from pretty much all angles. Speaking as an enlisted Marine (not AD--been out for years) who really wishes he had gone to OCS. 
ETA: Also, plenty of enlisted guys ride computers and desks for a living, so don't let that cloud your decision making. |
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Anyone with a degree that would enlist, and remain enlisted, has a couple of screws loose.
If for no other reason, why would you take enlisted E-3 pay instead of O-1 pay? The difference is roughly $1100 per month for Basic Pay. It's not all about the pay, but it's also time to be honest, that is an important factor to consider. Living conditions is another, as well as post service opportunity. Your education is perfect for one of the main jobs officers encounter, contract administration. http://www.dfas.mil/militarymembers/payentitlements/militarypaytables.html |
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Anyone with a degree that would enlist, and remain enlisted, has a couple of screws loose. If for no other reason, why would you take enlisted E-3 pay instead of O-1 pay? The difference is roughly $1100 per month for Basic Pay. It's not all about the pay, but it's also time to be honest, that is an important factor to consider. Living conditions is another, as well as post service opportunity. Your education is perfect for one of the main jobs officers encounter, contract administration. http://www.dfas.mil/militarymembers/payentitlements/militarypaytables.html Absolutely. Money is certainly an issue. I hadn't previously considered warrant officer but it looks interesting, particularly the aviation MOS. More research ahead. Thanks for your advice. |
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Are you going to kick yourself in the nuts for the rest of your life with regret if you don't do it? Yes or no question. More and more this is becoming something I would regret if I didn't do. The question between air vs infantry is the harder part. Last thing I want to do is OCS in the army, then sit behind a computer. Thus, I would be more willing to enlist and take my chances doing something like rangers or sf if a flying opportunity wasn't an option. Rangers and SF have officers, too. My thinking is, if you spent the resources obtaining a degree, why would you not want to take full advantage? Go to OCS--it makes sense from pretty much all angles. Speaking as an enlisted Marine (not AD--been out for years) who really wishes he had gone to OCS.
ETA: Also, plenty of enlisted guys ride computers and desks for a living, so don't let that cloud your decision making. But not many, in comparison to other specialties and branches. To get an officer billet in a Ranger or SF unit is very difficult, and you won't do it right out of OCS/OBC. If you decide you want be a Ranger or SF, and spend a career doing it, you're much better off enlisting for it. If, on the other hand, you are willing to accept the greater responsibility, harder work, and longer hours that come with being a commissioned officer, with the understanding that you may have an opportunity to serve part of your career in an SF or Ranger unit, then go for it. My service included both enlisted and commissioned time; I had more fun, and more opportunity to do high speed stuff, as an enlisted soldier. OP, if you want to fly, check it out. Just be aware that only a very small portion of the population has the skills, and the physical and mental qualifications to make it. ETA: I always advise young people who are interested in serving to look real hard at the Warrant program. IMHO Warrant Officers have the best of both worlds: most of the perks of commissioned service without many of the headaches. |
| I'll warn you right now that if you choose USMC for flight school you better be prepared to spend at least 2 of your first 4 years doing NOTHING towards your career. Navy students leave advanced jet as new LTJGs if not Ensigns. Marines leave as Captain selects if not already Captains. If you want to get into the cockpit as fast as possible, fly new jets, and get as many hours as possible, go Navy. |
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Saw this in the other locked thread... Seems to be only available to juniors and below. I graduate in April 2014, so it may not be an option. I will be contacting a USMC recruiter to speak about possibilities, though. Thanks for your input. |
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Wanna fly? WOFT Just a warning, its not all unicorns and rainbows in here. Even as a Chief. Understood. I don't expect anything military related to be so... But I want to serve and feel like I have the skill set to carry me through a demanding MOS. Thanks for your input. |
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Wanna fly? WOFT Just a warning, its not all unicorns and rainbows in here. Even as a Chief. Understood. I don't expect anything military related to be so... But I want to serve and feel like I have the skill set to carry me through a demanding MOS. Thanks for your input. Then I wish you all the luck in the world. |
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OCS I'm not a vet. My dad was instructor at Benning and OCS instructor. He would have told you to do OCS. If you flunk out?..guess what you go to AD enlisted. The first part of OCS is basic. So might as well shoot for officer. That was the advice I heard him tell others. This... I was an instructor for the school the Army used to have that came after OCS, we called it BOLC II. Bottom line is OP you go to basic training either way... Question is do you want to live a real enlisted life and get MOS qualified and then go OCS down the road or just enlist straight for OCS and forgo enlisted life? Also, we always need pilots. If that's what you really want, try for it... pickings aren't as slim as you'd think . |
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Having served 8 1/2 years enlisted/NCO and then going to OCS eventually retiring as a COL, I recommend OCS. I actually had the best of both worlds in that I also decided to take my chances & when I got my commission I only worried about doing something I really wanted to do (Explosive Ordnance Disposal) and figured my career would take care of itself. It worked out for me. In addition know numerous other officers who went OCS so highly recommend it especially since you already have your degree. All is also dependent on what you want to do (i.e just go in a few years to do exciting things & get out or possibly stay until retirement, etc). One thing to think of is that as enlisted Soldier you will have to put up with BS from Soldiers, NCO & Officers that outrank you versus as an Officer you only have to put up with the BS from those that outrank you but regardless you will always have to deal with BS it is just part of being in the military. More than happy to discuss options via PM if you want but again the smart thing to do is to gather as much intel as you can and then make the decision that suits you. Best of luck.
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The money is on the officer side. However, I've seen scores of officers get disheartened, then get out when they found out their dreams of being line-dog commanders were replaced by a desk, computer screen, inventory lists, and other assorted admin crap.
Some of the best platoon leaders and company commanders I had were soon sent up to battalion/brigade/division HQ to to some incredibly monotonous, staff job and they just couldn't handle it. They joined to be leaders and fighters, and end up being lap-dogs for field grade and general officers, or counting beans in some S-shop. But it's the same on the enlisted side. Once you hit E-6 and get leadership time in, you'll get your orders for recruiting/drill assignments. Then you hit E-7 and get sent to a battle staff nonsense job, where paperwork and ceremonies becomes your life. Then they'll probably get sent to be an OCS/ROTC instructor for the rest of your days. Lots of high-speed infantrymen only get to do high-speed infantry stuff for a short time before they're put out to pasture. |
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Wanna fly? WOFT Just a warning, its not all unicorns and rainbows in here. Even as a Chief. The Marines offer flight contracts to qualified applicants; they go to TBS and right to flight school Oh I am well aware. My dad is a retired 06 fighter pilot in the USMC. I am just giving props to the Army. 
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| This is like asking "do you want to fuck the prom queen or the fat wall flower?" Former NCO here for all you haters- Go officer. You make more money, have more authority (over your personal life), and deal with less bull shit and dumb orders. You cannot just saunter over to OCS after basic. You will have to select OCS when you see your recruiter. My brother went in this way. He did basic at Ft. Benning and then was marched to OCS which he states was much worse than Basic Training. I enlisted and saw "how the other half lives." If you want immediate access to better housing, better pay, and chances to get a masters degree for free, attend a hell of an ILE course, and truly command Soldiers, Sailor, Airmen or Marines then go officer. If you like to fuck fat pigs while getting yelled at and deal with petty fucking Soldier issues, by all means-enlist. They are both honorable after all... |
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This is like asking "do you want to fuck the prom queen or the fat wall flower?" Former NCO here for all you haters- Go officer. You make more money, have more authority (over your personal life), and deal with less bull shit and dumb orders. You cannot just saunter over to OCS after basic. You will have to select OCS when you see your recruiter. My brother went in this way. He did basic at Ft. Benning and then was marched to OCS which he states was much worse than Basic Training. I enlisted and saw "how the other half lives." If you want immediate access to better housing, better pay, and chances to get a masters degree for free, attend a hell of an ILE course, and truly command Soldiers, Sailor, Airmen or Marines then go officer. If you like to fuck fat pigs while getting yelled at and deal with petty fucking Soldier issues, by all means-enlist. They are both honorable after all... Excellent analogy. Thanks. |
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Warrant Officer This-all hail the chief mafia. I really should have gone WOCS. I had more push to go WOCS form WOs than I did from recruiters to join the army.  I was giving sedation to an old anesthesiologist. He was head of a large academic dept. at one time. He also had been an Army Warrant (Huey driver) during Vietnam. Guess what all of his semi-coherent ramblings were about? The huge money he made? Nope. The prestige he had as professor? Nope. Bossing around a few hundred Anesthesiologists and CRNAs and admins? Nope. Flying choppers. Tells you alot. |
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Wanna fly? WOFT Just a warning, its not all unicorns and rainbows in here. Even as a Chief. The Marines offer flight contracts to qualified applicants; they go to TBS after a nine month wait and right to flight school after another nine month wait and then take two years to complete flight school and another two to complete the RAG FIFY |
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Wanna fly? WOFT Just a warning, its not all unicorns and rainbows in here. Even as a Chief. I don't think I ever saw our commo/crypto Chief without a coffee cup in his hand, and his issue weapon was a .38 revolver. 
Oh yea. Walking warrants have a great life. |
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Wanna fly? WOFT Just a warning, its not all unicorns and rainbows in here. Even as a Chief. The Marines offer flight contracts to qualified applicants; they go to TBS after a nine month wait and right to flight school after another nine month wait and then take two years to complete flight school and another two to complete the RAG FIFY That is always up in the air, some guys go right through the pipe line some guys take years. A friend of mine at DC aviation went to Enid and RAG (is that still the name) in no time. |
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Wanna fly? WOFT Just a warning, its not all unicorns and rainbows in here. Even as a Chief. I don't think I ever saw our commo/crypto Chief without a coffee cup in his hand, and his issue weapon was a .38 revolver.
Oh yea. Walking warrants have a great life. I bet Wally from Dilbert was a WO in his pre-cubicle farm life. |
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That is always up in the air, some guys go right through the pipe line some guys take years.
A friend of mine at DC aviation went to Enid and RAG (is that still the name) in no time. I don't think new studs are going to Vance AFB for training anymore. The RAG is technically the FRS now, but everyone calls it the RAG. With sequestration and things that I have seen / heard, my best guess is that things are only going to get worse. |