Posted: 8/13/2004 2:11:15 AM EDT
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We have obviously tried to stabilize Iraq. We have went on the offensive trying to eliminate rebel militia members, per the request of the new Iraqi government. And now they(Iraqi Government) are asking us to back down because it is causing an uprising with the Shi'ite(sp?) majority. If i'm Bush I pull all troops out of Iraq immediatley, stating that we have given the Iraqi people control of the government, there government has asked us not to do our job and our people are getting killed because of it. State to the American people that we have completed our mission, ousted Saddam, handed over power, and our continued presence would only destablize the nation further.........................he wins by ending the war and bringing our troops home, and the soldiers win by not having to police a hopeless situation. For those who say leaving Iraq will just allow another Saddam to come to power, there are dozens of little countries (read Africa) all over the world that have dictators as brutal as Saddam, we cannot police the world. Opinions? What would you do? Keep in mind the election, i.e. no "I'd turn their ass's to glass." arrogant speeches. |
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OK, so you pull out, Moqtada Sadr's militia run riot over the country and you have a _real_ rogue state to content with, smart. It's a pity that the UN can't patrol the world dealing with tinpot dictators like the ones in Africa, the place might be a bit nicer, and we wouldn't have half as many asylum seekers heading our way. Now, personally I think that going into Iraq was still the right thing to do, m'kay, bear that in mind for the next bit. You hit a country, which didn't have any WMD capable of threatening the US and Britain[1], and most of the other coalition countries, you knock off the dictator who rules it all with an iron fits, and you have a power-vaccuum. Not only is it good manners to see that the country is in a reasonable state when you leave it, but it's good sense too. You come to my country, bomb a load of it, then oust the ruler, because he's been bluffing at World WMD poker again, and then just walk away, and I'm going to be pissed about it. Helping to rebuild the damage, organising aid and elections and all the rest of it (while making a fair profit in the process of course), goes a long way to reducing the number of potential suicide-bomb martyrs later on. Unless of course you leave with a "dont make me come down there again" type warning with nuclear weapons and actually drop one to show you mean it - say on Najaf - before you go. And if you think you've really handed over power when coalition (OK, US) troops are still pulling most of the security details, then you're probably mistaken, they have a paper government, until that .gov is entrenched enough to be able to trust it's own troops, it's pretty feeble. The Shi-its are uprising anyway, smack em down, and make em behave. And yes, I do still have friends out there not the imaginairy ones from the internet but guys I've known for years, an ex-brother in law, friends from work, etc. They've done their tour, and I was scared shitless for them. I know people who are at risk if the pull-out doesn't occur immediately, but I think that pulling out now would create more of a shitstorm in the long run. Cheers, /PHil [1] OK, I know it did still have some WMD and that's not the point, Saddam was supposed to _prove_he'd got rid of them, but still, battlefield nukes aren't a threat to the US unless they get flogged to Al Kwik fit. Oh, and we didn't find those, only chemical so far, right? |
Where to begin................ Say a town bully has been beating on people for years, causing all kinds of trouble. You finally get tired of it and put two in his chest, are you then responsible for taking care of his family? I don't think so. The people of Iraq made a choice, a choice to live under such conditions, they are as much to blame as Saddam. If I remember correctly, we (Americans) became tired of living under the tyrannical rule of Britain, we had something called a revolution, we shed our oppressors rule and turned out just fine. But I can image the history books in your country don't tell the same story. Enjoy your gun control and your queen my friend! 
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Well, according to the civil suit the scumbag's family might slap you with, you quite possibly are. But anwyay, it's an analogy, and one that feel's right, but it's still not the actual situation is it. To be honest we didn't really study the Colonial revolution (no surprise there, eh  ) but my impression of it is just the same as yours, the monarchy/british government, screwed over the colonies, and they revolted, and right they were too.I don't entirely think that the people of Iraq made a choice, many of them chose to fight against him, and those that did ended up tortured there wives raped, and fed to the lions in Baghdad zoo by Uday and Qusay's minions (I'm not making that up). If the alternative for not voting saddam is torture and death, then most people will just go along with it, cos most people are weak. I don't know how far I'd be willing to push it in that situation, if it was just me, fine. If my family are on the line too, it's different. Pulling out right now seem's terribly short-termist, what happens when the sons of the however many Iraqui's civlian and army that got killed during the bombardment ask what happened to their father's, and because there is noa tinpot dictator in charge, he whips up hatred for the US and the rest of us. Then the little fragger straps on a bomb-belt and walks into a marine base in Saudi, or whereever they have moved to after they leave Saudi. Or the guy comes over as a student, passes all his immigration checks, or walks in via Mexico, picks up one of those illegal AK47's that litter the streets in California and starts capping kids. I honestly think amte that it's pay now or pay later, once we started this thing, it has to be finished in such a way as to minimise further chance of harm to both our countries (oh, and all those cheese eating surrender monkey ones too, but only indirectly). I don't mind the Queen so much, it's the bloody government plotting to take away our right to trial that worries me. And dont get me started on gun control in the UK, I'll cry. cheers, /PHil |
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that's the sort of "dont make me come back down there" I was talking about. Problem is that'll probably make the rest of the world view the US as a serious threat, even worse than some of the idiots do now. sadly. Those are almost worth desktopping :) But what are those paralell wavy lines in the Tikrit picture? /PHil |
I like the way you think. 
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Once again y'all have it WRONG! You people are very weak minded, lack foresight and the will to see things to the end, especially things that may take a while. It kind of reminds me of a kid building an object out of a bunch of legos. If the kid can't get it quite right, he throws a tantrum and smashes the thing on the floor and says 'legos are stupid'. If you cannot take a flow of casualties, you should hang up your hawk wings, and become isolationist pacifists. Before you respond with "but I'm willing to nuke it!", be advised that that is and has never been a reasonable solution to this problem. That was Stalins solution to the possiblity of treachery in his government. If you kill everyone, you're bound to get the guilty too! If you have a problem with the current scenario, take it up with the CIC and his administration. There are groups in Iraq trying to gain power and adjust the course we are trying to put it on. Well DUH! Politics has always abhored a political vaccum. Why are you somehow dumfounded that the Iraquis don't want us there? Hell, I've got neighbors that still hold a grudge about the fucking civil war.... |
Hey Balzac72, I think you missed a spot. Uh, no, no, you got it all. Nice shooting. |
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Exit Strategy? In about 2050 or so, the two remaining US divisions, comfortably garrisoned in nice quiet areas with lots of time in the field, will be withdrawn to go occupy Denmark or red California, to the sound of great protests from the local merchants who have grown rich off a couple generations of GIs, the local government that enjoyed the obvious external security boost from having US troops staioned there, and from the rest of the region, who will have stability concerns with the diminshed US presence. In other words, what is happening in the ROK right now. |