[ARCHIVED THREAD] - FAA changes hiring practice (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 6/15/2014 4:10:28 PM EDT
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http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/call7-investigators/faa-changes-hiring-practices-for-air-traffic-controllers-ignoring-qualified-students-and-vets
DENVER - Thousands of potential FAA air traffic control trainees, with College Initiative Training (CTI) degrees or previous military experience, have been told by the federal agency they are no longer eligible for job interviews. Instead, the FAA has decided to accept less qualified applicants, apparently to satisfy concerns that the agency needs a more diverse workforce. ---------------------- Priority for veterans and CTI graduates was no longer given. Instead, anyone interested in becoming an air traffic controller would be part of the same pool of applicants-- a combination of "off the street hires" and those with specialized education or prior experience. The initial hurdle for all applicants was based solely on a new, online biographical questionnaire that gave test takers instant results. "It didn't ask me anything about my college experience, my grades, my scores, (and) my ability for the actual job. It asked me what sports I played in high school. What was my least favorite subject in high school. Nothing related to aviation," remembered Meryhew. "I get a big red 'X' when I applied saying I'm not qualified, but no reason why," explained Annie Keinholz. "Biographically ineligible." |
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That whole deal caused a lot of butt hurt from the CTI guys and I don't blame them.
Supposedly 20,000 people applied, only 2,000 made it past the bio questions. A lot of it was stupid... I remember one question specifically: "What were your grades in high school arithmetic?" Well, it WAS over 10 years ago and I do not remember many particulars, but I do know that I was done with "arithmetic" by 7th grade or so and the lowest math taught in high schools was algebra. How am I supposed to answer that 
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Quoted:
Do you really want an affirmative action hire guiding the 737 you are a passenger on into Newark Airport on a busy day? Sure, because as long as they make it through the academy they should be GTG. What WAS dumb was the old hiring practice. Want to work in ATC? Ok, Go to one of 100 schools around the country and get a degree in air traffic control, then we'll think about hiring you. Once you are hired, that means exactly jack and shit, and we're still going to put you through our academy anyway. I'm not seeing a problem with hiring guys off the street, except the way they are doing it is dumb. Basically the government went from one dumb hiring practice to another... imagine that. |
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Quoted:
Sure, because as long as they make it through the academy they should be GTG. Right up till they start lowering standards for women and minorities. What WAS dumb was the old hiring practice. Want to work in ATC? Ok, Go to one of 100 schools around the country and get a degree in air traffic control, then we'll think about hiring you. Once you are hired, that means exactly jack and shit, and we're still going to put you through our academy anyway. I'm not seeing a problem with hiring guys off the street, except the way they are doing it is dumb. Basically the government went from one dumb hiring practice to another... imagine that. Quoted:
Quoted:
Do you really want an affirmative action hire guiding the 737 you are a passenger on into Newark Airport on a busy day? Sure, because as long as they make it through the academy they should be GTG. Right up till they start lowering standards for women and minorities. What WAS dumb was the old hiring practice. Want to work in ATC? Ok, Go to one of 100 schools around the country and get a degree in air traffic control, then we'll think about hiring you. Once you are hired, that means exactly jack and shit, and we're still going to put you through our academy anyway. I'm not seeing a problem with hiring guys off the street, except the way they are doing it is dumb. Basically the government went from one dumb hiring practice to another... imagine that. |
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Speaking as a retired ATC with 25+ years on the job (5 or 6 of which were in the Training Dept.), and having trained many, many people to *attempt* do this job, (yes, there are lots of failures) - I would state the following: (keep in mind these are simply my opinion) 1. educational background (whether CTI or otherwise) has very little predictive value as to who might become a good controller. Some of the worst/most unsuitable trainees I ever encountered were those with the most formal education. 2. Attitude, aptitude, awareness, and verbal/listening skills comprise the huge majority of the requisite traits for success. Some of these things are difficult to test for......although when I was working, I used to think that if I could interview/interact with a pre-hire for about 1 hour or so, I could identify (with a very high success rate) those who were suited for the job. |
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Quoted:
Do you really want an affirmative action hire guiding the 737 you are a passenger on into Newark Airport on a busy day? EWR is easy. LGA and DCA are a challenge. Affirmative action has a long history already. I remember one tower controller at Trenton in '91. We called her "Miss Correction". Because she was always sequencing aircraft into a collision course, followed by "Correction!" It was Ugly. And it was my introduction into affirmative action. You really don't want to know how many AA pilots there are at certain airlines. 
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Quoted:
There is no doubt the policy is bad, not sure they are the biggest waste of money from a government organization. Quoted:
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Fuck the FAA. Biggest waste of money I've ever seen operating. There is no doubt the policy is bad, not sure they are the biggest waste of money from a government organization. They wanted to subject skydivers at ongoing jump operations to TSA "safety" screenings just like commercial airline passengers. That's complete fucking idiocy. Then again, the government swears we need protection from those soldiers who are returning from the M.E. too. 
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Quoted:
I self identify as a black, lesbian, woman. What? ... You can't call me a white male just based on what I look like! ... Your just a racist homophobe... I'm gonna sue your ass for intolerance _and_ discrimination! On the bright side, I understand your insurance has to cover the "transition" for you now. 
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Do you really want an affirmative action hire guiding the 737 you are a passenger on into Newark Airport on a busy day? What difference does it make? Whatever happens the ATC in question will never be held accountable anyway. Odrama wants the usa to be a third world shit hole worse than he was raised in. |
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Quoted:
Speaking as a retired ATC with 25+ years on the job (5 or 6 of which were in the Training Dept.), and having trained many, many people to *attempt* do this job, (yes, there are lots of failures) - I would state the following: (keep in mind these are simply my opinion) 1. educational background (whether CTI or otherwise) has very little predictive value as to who might become a good controller. Some of the worst/most unsuitable trainees I ever encountered were those with the most formal education. 2. Attitude, aptitude, awareness, and verbal/listening skills comprise the huge majority of the requisite traits for success. Some of these things are difficult to test for......although when I was working, I used to think that if I could interview/interact with a pre-hire for about 1 hour or so, I could identify (with a very high success rate) those who were suited for the job. Overall, how would you rate applicants/candidates with police dispatch experience? |
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Quoted:
I self identify as a black, lesbian, woman. What? ... You can't call me a white male just based on what I look like! ... Your just a racist homophobe... I'm gonna sue your ass for intolerance _and_ discrimination! This. Flip the script on them. Use their own biases against them. |
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The whole deal with CTI's was they were supposed to be hired on their own track just like prior service ATC and OTS'ers (including veterans without military ATC experience).
Now, I'm not surprised. The .gov bureaucracy would fuck up a circle jerk. You want to play social engineering games, play them with non-leathal entities. My daughter is a CTI grad who got a great job with a tech company and is moving up nicely. Thanks but no thanks, .gov. Many high quality candidates are slipping away while .gov plays its games. TC |
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The whole deal with CTI's was they were supposed to be hired on their own track just like prior service ATC and OTS'ers (including veterans without military ATC experience). My daughter is a CTI grad who got a great job with a tech company and is moving up nicely. Thanks but no thanks, .gov. Many high quality candidates are slipping away while .gov plays its games. TC This is also true. There are alot of CTI grads who either age out or just get a better offer. I've known people who were CTI grads and got in on the public hires, were CTI students picked up in the public hires before finishing (smart move), and those who followed the normal route. |
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Quoted: This is also true. There are alot of CTI grads who either age out or just get a better offer. I've known people who were CTI grads and got in on the public hires, were CTI students picked up in the public hires, and those who followed the normal route. Quoted: Quoted: The whole deal with CTI's was they were supposed to be hired on their own track just like prior service ATC and OTS'ers (including veterans without military ATC experience). My daughter is a CTI grad who got a great job with a tech company and is moving up nicely. Thanks but no thanks, .gov. Many high quality candidates are slipping away while .gov plays its games. TC This is also true. There are alot of CTI grads who either age out or just get a better offer. I've known people who were CTI grads and got in on the public hires, were CTI students picked up in the public hires, and those who followed the normal route. |
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Quoted:
Had this happen to me. Graduated in 2011 and I wasn't ready to leave everything behind for any potential job offer that came my way. I'm glad I didn't....I would have hated to wash out somewhere downstream. CTI schools are going to see enrollment dry up unless they start lying to potential students. Quoted:
Quoted:
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The whole deal with CTI's was they were supposed to be hired on their own track just like prior service ATC and OTS'ers (including veterans without military ATC experience). My daughter is a CTI grad who got a great job with a tech company and is moving up nicely. Thanks but no thanks, .gov. Many high quality candidates are slipping away while .gov plays its games. TC This is also true. There are alot of CTI grads who either age out or just get a better offer. I've known people who were CTI grads and got in on the public hires, were CTI students picked up in the public hires, and those who followed the normal route. Some of them were doing that to begin with. I've heard a lot of strange things regarding the hiring process and CTI's not getting washed. |
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Quoted:
This is also true. There are alot of CTI grads who either age out or just get a better offer. I've known people who were CTI grads and got in on the public hires, were CTI students picked up in the public hires before finishing (smart move), and those who followed the normal route. Quoted:
Quoted:
The whole deal with CTI's was they were supposed to be hired on their own track just like prior service ATC and OTS'ers (including veterans without military ATC experience). My daughter is a CTI grad who got a great job with a tech company and is moving up nicely. Thanks but no thanks, .gov. Many high quality candidates are slipping away while .gov plays its games. TC This is also true. There are alot of CTI grads who either age out or just get a better offer. I've known people who were CTI grads and got in on the public hires, were CTI students picked up in the public hires before finishing (smart move), and those who followed the normal route. The CTI Program on the Tech Ops side of the FAA is a fucking joke. The Agency used primarily minority colleges, like Texas Southern University for the Tech Ops side of the house. That college has had, at best, a sketchy past. Most of the people I have dealt with could not troubleshoot a wet match! 
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Quoted: CTI grad here. Made a 96 on the ATSAT, hiring practices changed and boom, I have to start over. I failed the bio questionnaire. I guess I played too many sports in high school, or a 4.0 GPA is bad. I'm bitter What about getting on at a contract tower?
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Quoted: I'm stunned by the racistism in this thread. Stunned. LeMonjello's GED is just as good as your cracker ass "degree". Tards live kick-ass lives. My ex is a tard and she's a pilot now. I think. Nah, she is a controller. I can't wait until they change the rules about medicals.
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