Fify

What would we talk to our Congressman about?  What law allows DoD agents to break into areas considered equivelant of homes for fourth amendment purposes without a warrant, exigent circumstances, or consent of the renter?

I literally defend against the violation of the Constitution every day. Why don't you go ahead and list for me the specific parts of the Constitution that you have served and protected? Which of the Bill of Rights has been your favorite to defend?

I believe you are asking about the "It's Just the Way it's Done, Sorry. Act"

There is no wall, neither literally nor figuratively.

You can't handle the truth.

Man, hope he gets paid and paid well.  

I wonder if any of the FBI agents involved actually feel bad about it though?  Like do you think they feel any guilt or personal responsibility whatsoever?

You mean the same government types that will pile charges like resisting arrest when they had no underlying legal reason to detain, much less arrest?

Can't remember the exacts scenario, but there was an individual who made the news, and someone here posted up the "lengthy" rap sheet to prove how bad of a dude he was.  Aweful lot of the charges (most all) were things like resisting arrest.

I have never stood atop the imaginary wall.

Like the Patriot Act, which you call a slippery slope, and yet are apparently just ok with.

Literally kidnapped and assaulted by the US mil operating on civilian US soil. Yeah, I hope that gets a big payday.

Being covered on Newsmax right now.

Attached File

OK, here's what happened.
Is there anyone here old enough to read cursive? I ask again can anyone here read cursive? What is cursive sir?
I think you have the paper upside down. No, I don't, this looks right, it's this room. Go, go, go!

I travel with a very small device to lock hotel doors from the inside. Would at least give you several seconds to prepare. Maybe take one with you. Maybe you'll live. Good luck.

Agreed.

What a fucking embarrassment.

And if he was a little more aware/prepared, he'd probably be killed. Oops.

What’s fucked us is apparently this isn’t that big a deal in their community.

Ok!

Sue TF out of the hotel for FU money!

Settle with delta for a weekend of range time with any toy of my choosing, in they're arms room.

That would make me whole again! Even if they touched my no no parts in the shower!

Look here guy, if you want to enjoy muh freedom then you're going to just have to accept being waterboarded in a hotel room shower once in a while. The watchers on the wall are too important for accountability.

Fucking pathetic
hope the guy gets paid bigly and the idiots responsible fired

diversity!!! maybe more lbtgwtf+/- would fix their issues

You're not wrong

Add to that assault, menacing & brandishing a firearm(s), unlawful use of a firearm, etc.  Whatever charges can be thrown at them, let's have it.

Goose, gander and all that.

Attached File


People really should be reading the statement.

What's even more fucked is these are allegedly our best guys. If they're fucking up like this...

That is not even a good argument.

I'm confused.  Did the Oath sworn at Enlistment change to remove the whole Constitution part?  Or does it have a asterisk on it now?  It's been over 25 years so my memory might be off.

Hahhahahah! Free Breakfast!

The shower has no where to secrete a weapon, no where to dump an item off,  good lighting, no where for them to lunge, and one person can monitor them while the other tosses the room.

Magnet clip and a butcher knife dangling from one of the curtain hooks

IMHO if these agents are so fucking stupid they cannot even hit the " designated simulation room" they were TOLD to, and instead  hit the wrong room with an unsuspecting INNOCENT citizen asleep, then, they all need to be FIRED immediately.
No ifs ands or buts.

What is weird about this is the layers upon layers that training evolutions typically have. 0 clue about tier 1 stuff, but, usually they go to some lengths, even in facilities where you can't stand down the active guard force.

Was there no observer / controllers? Where was the written gameplay? They use real world places all the time, especially for joint force exercises, but they buy out the entire property, set security around the place, and warn people 'you may see forces and hear sounds, but they are part of a national security exercise' Big signs and PA announcements and things.

Sometimes they just exercise elements of an event, like the dynamic actions-on part, or the search part. An end-to-end event takes a year in real time and multiple years in man-hours to orchestrate. I would have a hard time believing a live-fire exercise was held in a partially secured real world area with rental roleplayers. I'd have no problems believing it was sims/sesams though.

Far as the DOD/DOJ interface, that's been a thing for-ever. They train each other, they support each other, they sort of use common interfaces and TTP. It's not a conspiracy, there just aren't that many entities certified to do certain types of tasks, and it makes sense they would roundtable a lot of things. There's a lot of overlap, and the .mil has way more assets on tap and the .gov side has way more jurisdiction and authority. They also host foreign nation assets (mil and government) and go overseas to participate with them, as well.


This kind of training is very important. It adds elements of realism using real-world places and non-affiliated rolepayers. But if they can't lock their scenarios down, and have no positive way to determine in-play and out-of-play elements, they should stop until they figure out why.

...Maybe they jacked this guy up because he is an international pilot and was doing terror stuff, but needed a story because now he's been strongly skylined? Maybe he needed outed? Maybe the pilots ex-fling called her new boyfriend the operator and said the pilot was ferrying nukes from taiwan in the loads of rubber dogpoop?

Maybe all the floors of the hotel look exactly the same, they  dicked up the operations order
and pushed the wrong button in the elevator or ran down four flights of stairs instead of three before turning right and taking the second room on the right?

Wasn't there/not going to assume facts not in evidence, but... 45 minutes to realize that's not a roleplayer? At 5 minutes in a hotel room scenario, there would be injects to move shit along.


All I can say is that there is all kinds of training occurring out in the public in the US year round. You rarely if ever hear about it. Not just kinetic stuff, but E&E, observations, surveillance and detection, whole spectrum of operations.

Without honor warriors are just rabid dogs.

I hope for the sake of the people involved and their own humanity as well as their own sense of personal honor that they are able to make some act of contrition.  

When you wear the flag on your shoulder you should feel the weight of moral responsibility to be "the good guy."   Everyone makes mistakes, things can happen, and those who truly seek forgiveness should be forgiven as is the Christian way.

Some of y’all have some pretty wild imaginations…

The Army was involved?   Wtf?

Guess I need to go back and read the thread.

Where were they hiding the gun?

Yeah it was a training op, they got the wrong room. If I know the known facts correctly, they rolled this guy up, threw him in a bathtub and they didn't realize their mistake for 45 minutes. If it was Delta, for instance, that wasn't ALL that happened. They didn't roll him up and say see ya in 45. No, they worked him over. My guess, they don't even know the particulars of what their "subject" is going to say during interrogation. So screaming I am a Delta pilot probably played right into their play.

He can sue, or Delta can sue but it won't go anywhere. The interrogation/breach tactics will be highly classified. Guy probably won't be able to sleep right for a long, long time. And nothing will happen to the .mil guys who did it.

People sure jerk off to the government paying cash for mistakes but in the same breath bitch about paying taxes.

Exactly

Like a boss.  

Without context, this is a worthless comment.

With my bad hearing I'd assume it was "man gut Robbie" and I wouldn't open the door. No free breakfast for me.

Kharn

A Delta uniform and a watch the size of a UH-6's tail rotor might have been clues. Small pp and another member of the fight crew in the room (not that there's anything wrong with that) would also be indicative.

He can sue the hotel. He can't sue the government.

Kharn

If you were to drill down just one more layer, you would find most of us also advocate for the individuals who fucked up to be paying the lawsuits rather than the government/taxpayers.