Posted: 3/29/2009 7:03:14 AM EDT
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(CNN) –– Critics took to the social networking site Facebook to voice their fury over Pope Benedict's remark that condoms do not prevent HIV. Pope Benedict XVI's anti-condom comments has raised the ire of some Facebook users. Thousands have pledged to send the pontiff millions of condoms to protest the controversial comment he made to journalists as he flew to Cameroon last week. "You can't resolve it with the distribution of condoms," the pope told reporters. "On the contrary, it increases the problem." Pope Benedict XVI has made it clear he intends to uphold the traditional Catholic teaching on artificial contraception. The Vatican has long opposed the use of condoms and other forms of birth control and encourages sexual abstinence to fight the spread of the disease. About a dozen Facebook groups have sprang up, mostly from European countries, criticizing the pontiff. "The clergy aren't supposed to have sex at all, but they are free to tell people how to conduct themselves? That's like a girl who wears no make-up as the CEO of CoverGirl," one member posted on the page, "Condoms for Pope Benedict XVI." "It frightens me that a man who has devoted his life to moral guidance ... and is undeniably a learned, intelligent man can be at the same time so narrow-minded, bigoted and irresponsible," posted another person on a different page. The online campaign added another voice to a deluge of criticism, which includes the governments of France, Germany and Belgium. Aid agencies and other health organizations have also chimed in. The Lancet, a British medical journal, urged the pope Saturday to issue a retraction for the "outrageous and wildly inaccurate" statement to journalists aboard his plane. "When any influential person, be it a religious or political leader, makes a false scientific statement that could be devastating to the health of millions of people, they should retract or correct the public record," The Lancet said in an editorial. "Anything less from Pope Benedict would be an immense disservice to the public and health advocates, including many thousands of Catholics, who work tirelessly to try and prevent the spread of HIV/AIDS worldwide." Some in the Catholic Church have rallied to the pontiff's support. Cardinal Angelo Bagnasco, head of the Italian Bishops Conference, told Times Online in Britain that Benedict was simply pointing out that condoms "had not solved and could not solve the AIDS problem." Despite the controversy, the pope's pilgrimage spurred excitement in Africa. An estimated 1 million people turned out to hear him preach a Mass in Angola on Sunday, the last major event of his trip. He spoke of the need for reconciliation in the country, which has endured a brutal civil war. "Look to the future with hope, trust in God's promises and live in his truth. In this way you will build something that will stand and endure," he said. |
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Has "bigot" become the generic term to describe something/someone you don't like? What he said could be described as a lot of things, but bigoted is not one of them.
I don't necessarily agree with him, but I don't see what was all that bad about it. Condoms provide a sense of security that makes some people have sex in situations where they might not otherwise but I don't see getting rid of condom distribution programs as solving that issue. |
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I wonder how many of these "enlightened" morons actually read what the Pope wrote. they seem to leave out a specific word that changes the meaning of his statement. You mean they selectively edited and redacted his statement to create an absurd strawman to rail against? Sounds like the Religion Threads here. 
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Any idiot who listens to the Pope regarding an activity the Pope's NEVER DONE is...as mentioned...an idiot, and deserves whatever he gets. 
Because we know all NBA coaches are better than their players and can slam dunk a ball from half court, right? I'm just ribbing you. I think your sentiment above, and the like, is disingenuous. You can know a lot about something without ever having done it. I know a lot about STDs, but I've never gotten one, does that mean I have no intelligent input in a discussion? I do think the Pope was not correct in his assertion, but I understand why he made the statement. Catholics believe and will ALWAYS believe that sex outside of marriage is a sin. Throwing condoms around all willy-nilly will be thought by Catholics to be promoting random sex. Thus they will never agree with it. This I CAN speak on. I was a practicing Catholic for years. Emphasis on 'was'. |
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agreed. Most of the morons probably think the entire statement was "condoms cause HIV." On a trip to Africa last week, the pope told reporters, "You can't resolve it [HIV] with the distribution of condoms." He then added, "On the contrary, it increases the problem." |
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I don't necessarily agree with him, but I don't see what was all that bad about it. Oh, that's easy. You see, he's the Pope, and therefore worthy of scorn for anything he says that the leftists don't agree with. More like he's the Pope, and there are millions of mindless drones who will do whatever he says, regardless of how dumb or irresponsible it is. |
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agreed. Most of the morons probably think the entire statement was "condoms cause HIV." On a trip to Africa last week, the pope told reporters, "You can't resolve it [HIV] with the distribution of condoms." He then added, "On the contrary, it increases the problem." elsewhere here in GD there is a thread about a woman involved with men other than her husband......seems the condom broke................I'm sure the irony escapes you.....For those who believe that condoms are a cure for hiv/aids ....I certainly hope you do not find out the hard way. |
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Science > Faith Right - the Science of studying the social and cultural problems of Africa, rather than put your faith in a rubber. The Pope is 100% right about this. The HIV issue in Africa won't be cured by condoms. They already have condoms. They don't wear them. They also rape and fuck what ever they can corner, as its part of their culture. They do this knowing they are infected. The only thing going to save them is a paradigm shift in their culture. |
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(CNN) –– Critics took to the social networking site Facebook to voice their fury over Pope Benedict's remark that condoms do not prevent HIV. Pope Benedict XVI's anti-condom comments has raised the ire of some Facebook users. .......... Pope Benedict XVI has made it clear he intends to uphold the traditional Catholic teaching on artificial contraception. The Vatican has long opposed the use of condoms and other forms of birth control and encourages sexual abstinence to fight the spread of the disease. And they were expecting him to say something else 
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Any idiot who listens to the Pope regarding an activity the Pope's NEVER DONE is...as mentioned...an idiot, and deserves whatever he gets.
Because we know all NBA coaches are better than their players and can slam dunk a ball from half court, right? I'm just ribbing you. I think your sentiment above, and the like, is disingenuous. You can know a lot about something without ever having done it. I know a lot about STDs, but I've never gotten one, does that mean I have no intelligent input in a discussion? I do think the Pope was not correct in his assertion, but I understand why he made the statement. Catholics believe and will ALWAYS believe that sex outside of marriage is a sin. Throwing condoms around all willy-nilly will be thought by Catholics to be promoting random sex. Thus they will never agree with it. This I CAN speak on. I was a practicing Catholic for years. Emphasis on 'was'. So *WAS* I. 
On some matters you CAN become an "expert" thru research. But I sure as hell wouldn't take reproductive advice from the Catholic church (and in fact, didn't). Because I know what that can get you: I'm a "Rhythm Baby." I also don't take "parenting" advice from those who've never had kids.
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agreed. Most of the morons probably think the entire statement was "condoms cause HIV." On a trip to Africa last week, the pope told reporters, "You can't resolve it [HIV] with the distribution of condoms." He then added, "On the contrary, it increases the problem." elsewhere here in GD there is a thread about a woman involved with men other than her husband......seems the condom broke................I'm sure the irony escapes you.....For those who believe that condoms are a cure for hiv/aids ....I certainly hope you do not find out the hard way. Plus the scientific fact that a virus is orders of magnitude smaller than a sperm cell, and latex is not a completely effective barrier against viral tranmission. The 'science' is actually on the Pope's side and not the side of the pro-condom people. |
| I am not catholic and I disagree with the pope on a lot of things but this is not one of them. My oldest son is a by product of a condom failing. I am blessed to have my son but the fact is condoms fail all the time its just assumed they work better than they really do. Also I have spent time in east Africa and seen the children left orphan by this disease and it is a lot worse than people realise they hand out condoms by the millions but the rate of AIDS keep going up. The Idea that condoms are going to stop this has failed and in its wake millions have died. |
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I am not catholic and I disagree with the pope on a lot of things but this is not one of them. My oldest son is a by product of a condom failing. I am blessed to have my son but the fact is condoms fail all the time its just assumed they work better than they really do. Also I have spent time in east Africa and seen the children left orphan by this disease and it is a lot worse than people realise they hand out condoms by the millions but the rate of AIDS keep going up. The Idea that condoms are going to stop this has failed and in its wake millions have died. Aside from the fact that condoms fail, the real issue is they don't correct the behavior of fucking everything in sight. It encourages it. |
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elsewhere here in GD there is a thread about a woman involved with men other than her husband......seems the condom broke................I'm sure the irony escapes you.....For those who believe that condoms are a cure for hiv/aids ....I certainly hope you do not find out the hard way. Condoms are not a cure for HIV. To say that the use of condoms will not help in keeping HIV from spreading is absurd. |
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The Pope is right. What he's saying is that abstinence is the safer route over sex utilizing a condom. Now is it practical to expect people to abstain? Almost certainly not, but that doesn't invalidate his point. There we go, this is how I interpret what he said. Although to expect people to have some self control seems outrageous to some people, keeping it in your pants is the safest way to go. |
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agreed. Most of the morons probably think the entire statement was "condoms cause HIV." On a trip to Africa last week, the pope told reporters, "You can't resolve it [HIV] with the distribution of condoms." He then added, "On the contrary, it increases the problem." elsewhere here in GD there is a thread about a woman involved with men other than her husband......seems the condom broke................I'm sure the irony escapes you.....For those who believe that condoms are a cure for hiv/aids ....I certainly hope you do not find out the hard way. Plus the scientific fact that a virus is orders of magnitude smaller than a sperm cell, and latex is not a completely effective barrier against viral tranmission. The 'science' is actually on the Pope's side and not the side of the pro-condom people. You're missing the point (or at least the point as *I* see it.) I think it's preposterous for this group to get their panties in a twist over something the Pope (or ANYone) says enough to "band together" to "combat" that person. It's just stupid. The Pope has no sway, here. |
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Plus the scientific fact that a virus is orders of magnitude smaller than a sperm cell, and latex is not a completely effective barrier against viral tranmission. The 'science' is actually on the Pope's side and not the side of the pro-condom people. You're missing the point (or at least the point as *I* see it.) I think it's preposterous for this group to get their panties in a twist over something the Pope (or ANYone) says enough to "band together" to "combat" that person. It's just stupid. The Pope has no sway, here. I'm not certain what the point is there. The Pope has as much 'sway' as anyone here. Catholic Missionaries probably provide more health care in Africa than any other organization in the world, so his judgement is based on valid information. You know, the observation of actual facts in the real world that we hear so much about in these threads. Just because his opinion doesn't fit in with your worldview doesn't mean it's entirely without merit. |
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I don't necessarily agree with him, but I don't see what was all that bad about it. Oh, that's easy. You see, he's the Pope, and therefore worthy of scorn for anything he says that the leftists don't agree with. More like he's the Pope, and there are millions of mindless drones who will do whatever he says, regardless of how dumb or irresponsible it is. Apparently not on this subject, judging by how many Catholics ignore the church's teachings on sexuality... |
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elsewhere here in GD there is a thread about a woman involved with men other than her husband......seems the condom broke................I'm sure the irony escapes you.....For those who believe that condoms are a cure for hiv/aids ....I certainly hope you do not find out the hard way. Condoms are not a cure for HIV. To say that the use of condoms will not help in keeping HIV from spreading is absurd. not necessarily. Whether condom distribution programs correlate to an increase in risky activity at a rate that outweighs the reduction in the transmission of HIV by the use of condoms would be a perfectly valid topic for an epidemiological study. |
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Plus the scientific fact that a virus is orders of magnitude smaller than a sperm cell, and latex is not a completely effective barrier against viral tranmission. The 'science' is actually on the Pope's side and not the side of the pro-condom people. You're missing the point (or at least the point as *I* see it.) I think it's preposterous for this group to get their panties in a twist over something the Pope (or ANYone) says enough to "band together" to "combat" that person. It's just stupid. The Pope has no sway, here. I'm not certain what the point is there. The Pope has as much 'sway' as anyone here. Catholic Missionaries probably provide more health care in Africa than any other organization in the world, so his judgement is based on valid information. You know, the observation of actual facts in the real world that we hear so much about in these threads. Just because his opinion doesn't fit in with your worldview doesn't mean it's entirely without merit. I doubt the areas where the missionaries are use condoms to begin with
I'm not saying his opinion is invalid. I'm saying people are placing too much validity on its effect on people's decisions. |
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elsewhere here in GD there is a thread about a woman involved with men other than her husband......seems the condom broke................I'm sure the irony escapes you.....For those who believe that condoms are a cure for hiv/aids ....I certainly hope you do not find out the hard way. Condoms are not a cure for HIV. To say that the use of condoms will not help in keeping HIV from spreading is absurd. not necessarily. Whether condom distribution programs correlate to an increase in risky activity at a rate that outweighs the reduction in the transmission of HIV by the use of condoms would be a perfectly valid topic for an epidemiological study. gwitness and paris-dakar seem to be saying that the actual use of a condom won't help prevent HIV transmission, which is absofuckinglutely retarded. If you use a condom, the odds of transmitting HIV drop considerably. Whether condom distribution programs reduce the prevalence of HIV on a broader scale is what the pope is talking about. |
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http://www.avert.org/condoms.htm
Donor support for condoms In most countries where the HIV prevalence rate is high many people cannot afford to purchase condoms. Sexually active adults and teenagers must rely on condoms that are provided for free or sold at a subsidised low price. Governments often supply and promote condoms, but the poorest countries rely almost entirely on donations from outside agencies such as the UNFPA and the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID). The UNFPA records information on the quantities of condoms donated to countries worldwide by a range of organisations. Analysis of data collected between 1990 and 2005, as displayed in the graph, shows that the number of condoms donated has risen. Before 1996 however, the supply of condoms was always able to meet the demand, yet in recent years that has not been the case. The UNFPA estimates that at least 13.1 billion condoms were needed in 2005 to significantly reduce the spread of HIV, and another 4.4 billion were required for family planning. The number of condoms donated in 2005 was only 1.8 billion - representing just 10% of the need. Between 2000 and 2005, fourteen countries received an average of more than 10 donated condoms per man per year. All of these countries have widespread HIV epidemics and, with the exception of Haiti, all of them are in sub-Saharan Africa. At the very top of the list were Congo, Zimbabwe, Namibia and Cape Verde, each of which received more than 20 condoms per man per year. Developing countries outside sub-Saharan Africa tend to receive much lower numbers of donated condoms per man, with an average below one condom per man per year. |
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Plus the scientific fact that a virus is orders of magnitude smaller than a sperm cell, and latex is not a completely effective barrier against viral tranmission. The 'science' is actually on the Pope's side and not the side of the pro-condom people. You're missing the point (or at least the point as *I* see it.) I think it's preposterous for this group to get their panties in a twist over something the Pope (or ANYone) says enough to "band together" to "combat" that person. It's just stupid. The Pope has no sway, here. I'm not certain what the point is there. The Pope has as much 'sway' as anyone here. Catholic Missionaries probably provide more health care in Africa than any other organization in the world, so his judgement is based on valid information. You know, the observation of actual facts in the real world that we hear so much about in these threads. Just because his opinion doesn't fit in with your worldview doesn't mean it's entirely without merit. I doubt the areas where the missionaries are use condoms to begin with
I'm not saying his opinion is invalid. I'm saying people are placing too much validity on its effect on people's decisions. So you've just decided to dismiss the observations of the people who live and work providing health care to these people directly out of hand? Seriously, the Pope is the head of the organization that provides more health care in Africa than anyone else in the world. Why so dismissive of what he has to say? Do you seriously think you know more about the cultural, sexual and health care practices in tribal Africa than the Missionaries who live and work with those people on a daily basis? |
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The Pope is right. What he's saying is that abstinence is the safer route over sex utilizing a condom. Now is it practical to expect people to abstain? Almost certainly not, but that doesn't invalidate his point. There we go, this is how I interpret what he said. Although to expect people to have some self control seems outrageous to people, keeping it in your pants is the safest way to go. Thats about it, but remember, half of arfcom would still fuck an HIV positive person without a rubber. To half of arfcom, it's better to get AIDS and die than exhibit a little self control. Mental fucking giants up in here. Not exactly the kinds of people I trust with guns, but whatever. Maybe if they get AIDS their numbers will decrease soon. Dibs on guns!! 
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gwitness and paris-dakar seem to be saying that the actual use of a condom won't help prevent HIV transmission, which is absofuckinglutely retarded. If you use a condom, the odds of transmitting HIV drop considerably. Whether condom distribution programs reduce the prevalence of HIV on a broader scale is what the pope is talking about. That's not what I'm saying at all, but selling condoms as a definitive means of preventing HIV is specious. Condoms aren't 100% effective in preventing pregnancy and the sperm cell is much larger than the HIV virus, plus women are fertile maybe 20% of the time. However 'effective' a condom maybe in preventing pregnancy (and no sensible person would claim it's 100%), it will be much less effective in preventing transmission of HIV. That is a valid statement supported by scientific fact. Put it this way, if you met a woman you were wildly attracted to and found out she was HIV Positive, would you have sex with her using a condom and assume you were 'protected'? People who present condoms as 'protection' against HIV are doing a great disservice. Only behavior modification offers definitive protection against HIV. Tell me now how 'absofuckinglutely retarded' that is, genius boy. |
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Put it this way, if you met a woman you were wildly attracted to and found out she was HIV Positive, would you have sex with her using a condom and assume you were 'protected'? People who present condoms as 'protection' against HIV are doing a great disservice. Only behavior modification offers definitive protection against HIV. Tell me now how 'absofuckinglutely retarded' that is, genius boy. I wouldn't assume I was protected because no condom is 100% reliable, and it IS NOT because the HIV virus might slip through the condom. I'd be more worried about a break in the condom than I would about anything passing through a condom that has been double-dipped in latex and tested to exacting standards. The National Institutes of Health has looked at condoms through an electron microscope and found them to be impenetrable. From the CDC: (they generally know what they're talking about) Laboratory studies have demonstrated that latex condoms provide an essentially impermeable barrier to particles the size of HIV. Theoretical basis for protection. Latex condoms cover the penis and provide an effective barrier to exposure to secretions such as urethral and vaginal secretions, blocking the pathway of sexual transmission of HIV infection. Epidemiologic studies that are conducted in real-life settings, where one partner is infected with HIV and the other partner is not, demonstrate that the consistent use of latex condoms provides a high degree of protection. http://www.cdc.gov/condomeffectiveness/latex.htm Europeans conducted the same studies and not one partner contracted HIV from their partner when having sex with a condom. The idea that HIV can pass through a condom is almost as old as the AIDS epidemic, and was debunked shortly after it began. |
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I do think the Pope was not correct in his assertion, but I understand why he made the statement. Catholics believe and will ALWAYS believe that sex outside of marriage is a sin. Throwing condoms around all willy-nilly will be thought by Catholics to be promoting random sex. Thus they will never agree with it. Catholics also believe that any form of artificial birth control is wrong as well, as it is "unnatural". My argument against that has been that modern medicine is "unnatural" as well, yet I would bet a paycheck that 99% of practicing American Catholics have used modern medicine in one form of another in their lifetime. |
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the Pope is not wrong.
It all depends on your viewpoint. A medication that cures your blindness but causes you to loose feeling in your legs so you need to use a wheelchair would not be seen as a good cure. Condoms only prevent HIV when used 100% correctly 100% of the time...and then there is still some risk. IF you view premarital sex as harmful to society (which the Pope does but most other people do not) then this solution to containing AIDS is like that blindness cure that leaves you unable to walk. No person can say for a scientific certainty that walking is more important that sight, or vice versa...but everyone is going to have an opinion. From the Pope's style of morality, yes, condoms are not a cure. However, this has nothing to do with science and everything to do with the morals of sexual relations. If you agree with the Pope's morals on sexual relations, you agree with his condom stance. If you disagree with his morals on sex, you disagree with his condom stance. However, the conflict isn't the condom part of the equation, but the morals of sexual relations part of the equation. |
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Quoted: Quoted: I don't necessarily agree with him, but I don't see what was all that bad about it. Oh, that's easy. You see, he's the Pope, and therefore worthy of scorn for anything he says that the leftists don't agree with. Same thing could be said about Obama... "Oh, that's easy. You see, he's the President, and therefore worthy of scorn for anything he says that the righties don't agree with." Yet ARFCOM has no problems ripping on the pres for the stupidest of stuff that makes us look like DU but with a different spin. |
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As these DONATED African condoms will soon be originating from China, I would say that this Pope is spot on with this.
If the Chicoms include a healthy dose of the date rape drug with their childrens toys, what do you think they will be putting in the rubbers? My guess is even slipping on a China-made Trojan gives you SARS. You can certainly be an 80 year old virgin and still put that one together. |
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The Pope is right and anyone who knee-jerk rejects what he said is either a) stupid or b) hasn't done the DAMN RESEARCH NECESSARY TO CONSIDER ONESELF 'SCIENTIFIC'.
Condoms are not 100% effective - even when used properly. Plus there's the known effect of the societal wide false sense of security they give the at risk populations (which just so happen to be the same part of the population LEAST likely to follow all the precautionary guidelines for proper use of the condom in the first place)...combine just these two factors, add the aggressive promotion of the West's sexual hedonism via pop culture to Africa, and you could spread condoms a foot thick and they'd not "solve" or EVEN REDUCE the rate of HIV in Africa. It's not a lack of knowledge about what spreads disease or even a lack of physical medicines or condoms....it's a lack of self-control and THAT, given what the Church teaches about FREE WILL AND MAN'S RATIONAL NATURE means we CAN INDEED control ourselves, we can indeed change our social norms and attitudes. A change in life-style and culture will do more to save Africans from STDs than any and all forms of 'birthcontrol' and barriers combined. So the Pope is right. Now, if your goal is genocide and abortion, contraception, forced sterilization, STDs, are part of your tool box for carrying this out, then the spread of condoms as some sort of 'solution' to the problem of HIV makes sense. But it does NOT make "scientific" sense to claim condoms are some wonder cure or wonder protection against HIV when the unprecedented rise in the rate of use in THIS COUNTRY hasn't slowed regular STDs down a bit. But let's design a test, shall we? Let's suppose we ran a test whereby the Church's strategy is employed for several years and we compare this to the world's strategy. Then we'll test the affected populations to see which has the highest rate of HIV infection. Apples to apples. Wouldn't that prove something for our 'science is better than faith' crowd? Well, it's already been done. The Church promoted monogamy in Marriage, delayed onset of sexual activity in youth/abstinence outside of marriage for several years in Uganda while the rest of the surrounding nations' got MASSIVE UN/USAID funding to promote condoms, contraception, abortion, and "progressive" ideas about the family, sex, and marriage. Result: the rate of STDs and HIV went DOWN in Uganda while UP everywhere else. So either you go with the "let's not look at the actual case studies conducted in Africa and just assume the Church is wrong" or you look at the studies and compare the case of Uganda DROPPING the rate of AIDS thanks to a massive social effort to promote monogamy and abstinence, delayed sexual activity and reduce promiscuity vs. the cases of every OTHER country where the UN and USAID promotes condoms as the golden solution (as well as massive propaganda in favor of sexual promiscuity, abortion, contraception....which results (gasp!) in MORE sexual promiscuity and MORE HIV/AIDS. That' right. I'm calling you dolts who think the Pope is wrong, idiots. Unscientific, bigoted idiots. If you were "scientific" and "reasoned" you'd do you damned homework on this and other issues. Oh, and how's that sexual revolution going for you what with high divorce rates, rampant STDs among the population, vast increase in rapes, abuse, suicide, self-destructive behavior ? Good thing we're not in the 'bad old days' when divorce was uncommon, as was rape, incest, abuse, STDs, etc. huh? 
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