[ARCHIVED THREAD] - F&D Defense suing LWRC? (Page 2 of 6)
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lol! Why would any of them do this? If you win you get a established company that build's high quality rifles that actuality ship out to their customers. If they win they get what exactly?  Quoted:
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Well I just read 4 of 10 pages in the other thread. Seemed to me that there was no difference in any of the pages I read. They were basically the same shit. Over and over again. I will say one thing. If I ever want to buy a top tier 308. I won't be buying one of , c_hall's rifles. I'll buy the Les Bauer. That way I know I'll get .500. Not some pie in the sky .343-.900 groups . Les's 1911's are world renowned. He doesn't take his name lightly I also own 3 Mega 10's all with Krieger Fluted stainless barrels head spaced to my supplied bolts. At least I have a good barrel according to C_ball. But they probably aren't as good as the Krieger's that HE GETS! C_hall , is just another guy that thinks his shit smells like Roses. I don't want anything to do with a person like that. I buy Larue stuff. But mostly mounts. What a wasted morning it has been reading this crap. Here is a CHALLENGE to any AR maker. YOU vs ME. 30 shot average and best 5 round group. You beat me in both and you can have my company. If I win both I take your company. If each wins one, its a draw. TAKERS? This is the real deal. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile lol! Why would any of them do this? If you win you get a established company that build's high quality rifles that actuality ship out to their customers. If they win they get what exactly? If I win... then point proven. No one will challenge because they know my rifles will out-do them. Any day, any week, any month, any year. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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If I win... then point proven. No one will challenge because they know my rifles will out-do them. Any day, any week, any month, any year. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Quoted:
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Well I just read 4 of 10 pages in the other thread. Seemed to me that there was no difference in any of the pages I read. They were basically the same shit. Over and over again. I will say one thing. If I ever want to buy a top tier 308. I won't be buying one of , c_hall's rifles. I'll buy the Les Bauer. That way I know I'll get .500. Not some pie in the sky .343-.900 groups . Les's 1911's are world renowned. He doesn't take his name lightly I also own 3 Mega 10's all with Krieger Fluted stainless barrels head spaced to my supplied bolts. At least I have a good barrel according to C_ball. But they probably aren't as good as the Krieger's that HE GETS! C_hall , is just another guy that thinks his shit smells like Roses. I don't want anything to do with a person like that. I buy Larue stuff. But mostly mounts. What a wasted morning it has been reading this crap. Here is a CHALLENGE to any AR maker. YOU vs ME. 30 shot average and best 5 round group. You beat me in both and you can have my company. If I win both I take your company. If each wins one, its a draw. TAKERS? This is the real deal. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile lol! Why would any of them do this? If you win you get a established company that build's high quality rifles that actuality ship out to their customers. If they win they get what exactly? If I win... then point proven. No one will challenge because they know my rifles will out-do them. Any day, any week, any month, any year. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Do you want to borrow my GAP 10 for this challenge? |
I'm double posting this in a feeble attempt to keep up with the awesomeness ... 
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Well I just read 4 of 10 pages in the other thread. Seemed to me that there was no difference in any of the pages I read. They were basically the same shit. Over and over again. I will say one thing. If I ever want to buy a top tier 308. I won't be buying one of , c_hall's rifles. I'll buy the Les Bauer. That way I know I'll get .500. Not some pie in the sky .343-.900 groups . Les's 1911's are world renowned. He doesn't take his name lightly I also own 3 Mega 10's all with Krieger Fluted stainless barrels head spaced to my supplied bolts. At least I have a good barrel according to C_ball. But they probably aren't as good as the Krieger's that HE GETS! C_hall , is just another guy that thinks his shit smells like Roses. I don't want anything to do with a person like that. I buy Larue stuff. But mostly mounts. What a wasted morning it has been reading this crap. Here is a CHALLENGE to any AR maker. YOU vs ME. 30 shot average and best 5 round group. You beat me in both and you can have my company. If I win both I take your company. If each wins one, its a draw. TAKERS? This is the real deal. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Meh, I don't need another manual lathe and a Sears drill press, but I did find a post from a thread started over on the LaRue side of the house ... 
" " LaRue Scope Mount Repeatability " A thread on here last week about the repeatability of Larue removable scope mounts prompted me to do some testing. Let me preface this with the admission that I am just a guy that has a passion for the best of the best when it comes to all things firearm related. For me, the most important factor in all firearms, is accuracy and precision, regardless of what it costs. There are many high priced weapon platforms, scopes...etc. that I have bought and sold or do not use because they don't fit my needs accuracy and precision wise. That does not make these products bad, everyone has their expectations and use for a product, for my use and needs these did not prove themselves to be what I want. Let me also say I am by no means a formally instructed , white coat wearing, lab product vetting type of any sort. Point is I am sure that there are better ways to test these mounts but this is how I did it and in my mind it seems to have been a feasibly relevant test. On to the good stuff. As some here that may have seen in previous posts of mine, I have what is IMO, an extraordinarily accurate 18" OBR. A rifle that shots far better than 1/2 MOA, 1/4 MOA is closer to the average, every time it spits a projectile out. The perfect platform to test any optic, mount etc. If this rifle does not shoot it is the fault of something other than the rifle itself. Test Rifle: Larue 2012 yr model 18" OBR Nightforce NXS 5.5-22x56 scope. TBA Supressor Handloaded Ammunition 175g Berger OTM Mount Tested: Laure LT112 PSR20, this is the 20 MOA mount. 
This rifle has had somewhere around 1000 rounds shot out of it. The only scope it has ever worn is this nightforce scope. This LT112 mount has been on the rifle for roughly 500 of those rounds. I changed to the 20 MOA LT112 to get more distance out of the scope. 1300 yards was max using the full adjustment range and the reticle with the previous LT111. The LT112 got me to 95 MOA of adjustment which gets me wayyyy out there. In the past when I have seen comments criticizing Larue mounts there is talk of "slide marks" on the underside of the mount, where it has slid back and forth under recoil. I will agree that this is a highly likely scenario with a mount that is NOT adjusted properly. In the next picture you will see that this mount with over 500 rounds, has no sign of slide marks. In fact you will see the oil dots where the rail contacts the mount and they are pristine where they ride the rail. This photo was taken after firing the first 3 shots as the test control target. 
I have also seen comments criticizing Larue mounts that if the mount was tight enough to keep from sliding then the levers would tear up the rail. I do not remove the scope from this rifle very often, maybe it has been off 10-15 times over the period of 500 rounds. After I was done shooting this test and had removed and re mounted the scope 8 times, I took this photo of the rail. There is no damage or distortion to the rail. There are several spots where the Anodizing has been marred, which IMO is a non issue and not what I would call damage. 
Now the meat. It has been well documented here with load development in this rifle how well it will shoot. I shot a 3 round control group to compare the next two targets to. I know there are people here that require 76 round groups to agree anything is proven, give me a pass here, a 5 round test group would have just made the final results boring, trust me. For the test I had a single target with 6 aiming points, I only used the top row of 3. The first group on the left, is the control group. For the next group I removed the scope, took pictures of the underside of the LT112 (posted above) Fired one round, removed scope, fired another, removed scope and fired another, for a 3 round group. The next target I did the same, starting by removing the scope and re mounting and then shot a 5 shot group with the same remove/shoot procedure. 
1. control group size: .264 2. 3 shot group size: .341 (Removed/mounted every shot) 3. 5 shot group size .344 (Removed/mounted every shot) In my opinion I would say this is a fairly revealing test. With these results it is hard to dispute that the Larue mount, when properly adjusted, will return to zero in an amazingly consistent manner. Going in to this I had assumed that the results would be great but I honestly did not think it would be this consistent. I figured if there was less then 1/2 MOA movement then I was happy and the test was a success. If this rifle still shot MOA with a 5 shot remove/mount group I thought that would be excellent results. I am sure these results are no news to the folks at Larue, Mark and Mark are likely saying, "told you sumbitches"...... . I am a fan of Larue products because they work, they are quality engineered and executed and last but not least they reside in the greatest country known to man......................TEXAS
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If I win... then point proven. No one will challenge because they know my rifles will out-do them. Any day, any week, any month, any year. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Quoted:
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Well I just read 4 of 10 pages in the other thread. Seemed to me that there was no difference in any of the pages I read. They were basically the same shit. Over and over again. I will say one thing. If I ever want to buy a top tier 308. I won't be buying one of , c_hall's rifles. I'll buy the Les Bauer. That way I know I'll get .500. Not some pie in the sky .343-.900 groups . Les's 1911's are world renowned. He doesn't take his name lightly I also own 3 Mega 10's all with Krieger Fluted stainless barrels head spaced to my supplied bolts. At least I have a good barrel according to C_ball. But they probably aren't as good as the Krieger's that HE GETS! C_hall , is just another guy that thinks his shit smells like Roses. I don't want anything to do with a person like that. I buy Larue stuff. But mostly mounts. What a wasted morning it has been reading this crap. Here is a CHALLENGE to any AR maker. YOU vs ME. 30 shot average and best 5 round group. You beat me in both and you can have my company. If I win both I take your company. If each wins one, its a draw. TAKERS? This is the real deal. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile lol! Why would any of them do this? If you win you get a established company that build's high quality rifles that actuality ship out to their customers. If they win they get what exactly? If I win... then point proven. No one will challenge because they know my rifles will out-do them. Any day, any week, any month, any year. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile I think the reason most wouldn't enter such a competition is because its incredibly childish. |
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Meh, I don't need another manual lathe and a Sears drill press, but I did find a post from a thread started over on the LaRue side of the house ...
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Well I just read 4 of 10 pages in the other thread. Seemed to me that there was no difference in any of the pages I read. They were basically the same shit. Over and over again. I will say one thing. If I ever want to buy a top tier 308. I won't be buying one of , c_hall's rifles. I'll buy the Les Bauer. That way I know I'll get .500. Not some pie in the sky .343-.900 groups . Les's 1911's are world renowned. He doesn't take his name lightly I also own 3 Mega 10's all with Krieger Fluted stainless barrels head spaced to my supplied bolts. At least I have a good barrel according to C_ball. But they probably aren't as good as the Krieger's that HE GETS! C_hall , is just another guy that thinks his shit smells like Roses. I don't want anything to do with a person like that. I buy Larue stuff. But mostly mounts. What a wasted morning it has been reading this crap. Here is a CHALLENGE to any AR maker. YOU vs ME. 30 shot average and best 5 round group. You beat me in both and you can have my company. If I win both I take your company. If each wins one, its a draw. TAKERS? This is the real deal. Meh, I don't need another manual lathe and a Sears drill press, but I did find a post from a thread started over on the LaRue side of the house ...
A thread on here last week about the repeatability of Larue removable scope mounts prompted me to do some testing. Let me preface this with the admission that I am just a guy that has a passion for the best of the best when it comes to all things firearm related. For me, the most important factor in all firearms, is accuracy and precision, regardless of what it costs. There are many high priced weapon platforms, scopes...etc. that I have bought and sold or do not use because they don't fit my needs accuracy and precision wise. That does not make these products bad, everyone has their expectations and use for a product, for my use and needs these did not prove themselves to be what I want. Let me also say I am by no means a formally instructed , white coat wearing, lab product vetting type of any sort. Point is I am sure that there are better ways to test these mounts but this is how I did it and in my mind it seems to have been a feasibly relevant test. On to the good stuff. As some here that may have seen in previous posts of mine, I have what is IMO, an extraordinarily accurate 18" OBR. A rifle that shots far better than 1/2 MOA, 1/4 MOA is closer to the average, every time it spits a projectile out. The perfect platform to test any optic, mount etc. If this rifle does not shoot it is the fault of something other than the rifle itself. Test Rifle: Larue 2012 yr model 18" OBR Nightforce NXS 5.5-22x56 scope. TBA Supressor Handloaded Ammunition 175g Berger OTM Mount Tested: Laure LT112 PSR20, this is the 20 MOA mount. <a href="http://s105.photobucket.com/user/mngane/media/E1681A4B-218C-429B-BBC1-EB2B3BFC53E9_zpswtrjjtmd.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m240/mngane/E1681A4B-218C-429B-BBC1-EB2B3BFC53E9_zpswtrjjtmd.jpg</a> <a href="http://s105.photobucket.com/user/mngane/media/8489C527-D966-4293-9752-020976815D3F_zps1ychdsbv.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m240/mngane/8489C527-D966-4293-9752-020976815D3F_zps1ychdsbv.jpg</a> This rifle has had somewhere around 1000 rounds shot out of it. The only scope it has ever worn is this nightforce scope. This LT112 mount has been on the rifle for roughly 500 of those rounds. I changed to the 20 MOA LT112 to get more distance out of the scope. 1300 yards was max using the full adjustment range and the reticle with the previous LT111. The LT112 got me to 95 MOA of adjustment which gets me wayyyy out there. In the past when I have seen comments criticizing Larue mounts there is talk of "slide marks" on the underside of the mount, where it has slid back and forth under recoil. I will agree that this is a highly likely scenario with a mount that is NOT adjusted properly. In the next picture you will see that this mount with over 500 rounds, has no sign of slide marks. In fact you will see the oil dots where the rail contacts the mount and they are pristine where they ride the rail. This photo was taken after firing the first 3 shots as the test control target. <a href="http://s105.photobucket.com/user/mngane/media/4A399600-C999-4FAC-B660-EE124213FD65_zpsuzjcu5zv.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m240/mngane/4A399600-C999-4FAC-B660-EE124213FD65_zpsuzjcu5zv.jpg</a> <a href="http://s105.photobucket.com/user/mngane/media/0DDBEBBE-35DB-44C3-BA66-B9049B955B26_zpsqdbr1h2y.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m240/mngane/0DDBEBBE-35DB-44C3-BA66-B9049B955B26_zpsqdbr1h2y.jpg</a> I have also seen comments criticizing Larue mounts that if the mount was tight enough to keep from sliding then the levers would tear up the rail. I do not remove the scope from this rifle very often, maybe it has been off 10-15 times over the period of 500 rounds. After I was done shooting this test and had removed and re mounted the scope 8 times, I took this photo of the rail. There is no damage or distortion to the rail. There are several spots where the Anodizing has been marred, which IMO is a non issue and not what I would call damage. <a href="http://s105.photobucket.com/user/mngane/media/DC23CFB9-DECB-442E-A3C4-3FB340672C62_zpsmst6tgca.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m240/mngane/DC23CFB9-DECB-442E-A3C4-3FB340672C62_zpsmst6tgca.jpg</a> Now the meat. It has been well documented here with load development in this rifle how well it will shoot. I shot a 3 round control group to compare the next two targets to. I know there are people here that require 76 round groups to agree anything is proven, give me a pass here, a 5 round test group would have just made the final results boring, trust me. For the test I had a single target with 6 aiming points, I only used the top row of 3. The first group on the left, is the control group. For the next group I removed the scope, took pictures of the underside of the LT112 (posted above) Fired one round, removed scope, fired another, removed scope and fired another, for a 3 round group. The next target I did the same, starting by removing the scope and re mounting and then shot a 5 shot group with the same remove/shoot procedure. <a href="http://s105.photobucket.com/user/mngane/media/4134C89B-7157-4488-8C7D-586B242DC6F1_zpsjxgykcgr.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m240/mngane/4134C89B-7157-4488-8C7D-586B242DC6F1_zpsjxgykcgr.jpg</a> 1. control group size: .264 2. 3 shot group size: .341 (Removed/mounted every shot) 3. 5 shot group size .344 (Removed/mounted every shot) In my opinion I would say this is a fairly revealing test. With these results it is hard to dispute that the Larue mount, when properly adjusted, will return to zero in an amazingly consistent manner. Going in to this I had assumed that the results would be great but I honestly did not think it would be this consistent. I figured if there was less then 1/2 MOA movement then I was happy and the test was a success. If this rifle still shot MOA with a 5 shot remove/mount group I thought that would be excellent results. I am sure these results are no news to the folks at Larue, Mark and Mark are likely saying, "told you sumbitches"...... . I am a fan of Larue products because they work, they are quality engineered and executed and last but not least they reside in the greatest country known to man......................TEXAS
11 round review... nice... Lets go then! You and I Marky-Mark. Ill beat you by .3 MOA per 30-round group. ...Because his next 3 groups went to shit... Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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We read that LWRCI filed suit against you. Will you even have a company to wager on the internet when their lawyers are done with you? Any comments on pending litigation against yourself? Quoted:
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Well I just read 4 of 10 pages in the other thread. Seemed to me that there was no difference in any of the pages I read. They were basically the same shit. Over and over again. I will say one thing. If I ever want to buy a top tier 308. I won't be buying one of , c_hall's rifles. I'll buy the Les Bauer. That way I know I'll get .500. Not some pie in the sky .343-.900 groups . Les's 1911's are world renowned. He doesn't take his name lightly I also own 3 Mega 10's all with Krieger Fluted stainless barrels head spaced to my supplied bolts. At least I have a good barrel according to C_ball. But they probably aren't as good as the Krieger's that HE GETS! C_hall , is just another guy that thinks his shit smells like Roses. I don't want anything to do with a person like that. I buy Larue stuff. But mostly mounts. What a wasted morning it has been reading this crap. Here is a CHALLENGE to any AR maker. YOU vs ME. 30 shot average and best 5 round group. You beat me in both and you can have my company. If I win both I take your company. If each wins one, its a draw. TAKERS? This is the real deal. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile We read that LWRCI filed suit against you. Will you even have a company to wager on the internet when their lawyers are done with you? Any comments on pending litigation against yourself? Been hearing that line for almost a year now... and who's still on top??? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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When you build the finest/best/highest quality/most accurate production AR on the planet, you should brag too. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Quoted:
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Dupe...and the owner is all kinds of bragging about how brilliant he is. Now him and Mark LaRue are comparing dicks. Both those guys sure come across as dicks with ego and other related issues. When you build the finest/best/highest quality/most accurate production AR on the planet, you should brag too. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile If it's the finest, and best then why don't you run 40k on one gun with no cleaning? Only lube. |
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I'll just say this: while I'm not up-to-speed on all of the details surrounding F&D vs. LWRC or anything else, c_hall's chest thumping won't win him any customers. F&D may ultimately build a better product but the dick measuring taking place here will do much more harm than good. |
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If it's the finest, and best then why don't you run 40k on one gun with no cleaning? Only lube. Quoted:
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Dupe...and the owner is all kinds of bragging about how brilliant he is. Now him and Mark LaRue are comparing dicks. Both those guys sure come across as dicks with ego and other related issues. When you build the finest/best/highest quality/most accurate production AR on the planet, you should brag too. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile If it's the finest, and best then why don't you run 40k on one gun with no cleaning? Only lube. What??? Who spends $55,000 on ammo to prove what a $3500 rifle can or cannot do? 100% irrelevant to the topic... or any perception of the topic. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
Mr. Incredible, I'm hypothe-biggie-sizing here - but if you lost, wouldn't one assume that your potential and future rip-you-a-new-one court liabilities in your stir-up-the-hornet's-nest lawsuits would all convey with ownership of your magnificent firm ... so, ouch, so what's the upside ?
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What??? Who spends $55,000 on ammo to prove what a $3500 rifle can or cannot do? 100% irrelevant to the topic... or any perception of the topic. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Quoted:
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Dupe...and the owner is all kinds of bragging about how brilliant he is. Now him and Mark LaRue are comparing dicks. Both those guys sure come across as dicks with ego and other related issues. When you build the finest/best/highest quality/most accurate production AR on the planet, you should brag too. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile If it's the finest, and best then why don't you run 40k on one gun with no cleaning? Only lube. What??? Who spends $55,000 on ammo to prove what a $3500 rifle can or cannot do? 100% irrelevant to the topic... or any perception of the topic. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Best, and finest also insinuates most reliable or durable. Can your $3,500 rifle do the same thing that a $1,500 BCM can? Actually, you know what. I'll change my question to suit the caliber difference: How long can your rifle stay accurate and reliable, and can you prove it? |
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Damn, just found this thread. Why is C_Hall posting here and shying away from the other? Dude, come to GA on a Saturday night or anytime Sunday and I will bring any REPR 12"-20" (your choice) AND an OBR and we will shoot all three. Don't dome some last minute Wednesday shit, I need time to arrange a sitter |
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11 round review... nice... Lets go then! You and I Marky-Mark. Ill beat you by .3 MOA per 30-round group. ...Because his next 3 groups went to shit... Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Quoted:
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Well I just read 4 of 10 pages in the other thread. Seemed to me that there was no difference in any of the pages I read. They were basically the same shit. Over and over again. I will say one thing. If I ever want to buy a top tier 308. I won't be buying one of , c_hall's rifles. I'll buy the Les Bauer. That way I know I'll get .500. Not some pie in the sky .343-.900 groups . Les's 1911's are world renowned. He doesn't take his name lightly I also own 3 Mega 10's all with Krieger Fluted stainless barrels head spaced to my supplied bolts. At least I have a good barrel according to C_ball. But they probably aren't as good as the Krieger's that HE GETS! C_hall , is just another guy that thinks his shit smells like Roses. I don't want anything to do with a person like that. I buy Larue stuff. But mostly mounts. What a wasted morning it has been reading this crap. Here is a CHALLENGE to any AR maker. YOU vs ME. 30 shot average and best 5 round group. You beat me in both and you can have my company. If I win both I take your company. If each wins one, its a draw. TAKERS? This is the real deal. Meh, I don't need another manual lathe and a Sears drill press, but I did find a post from a thread started over on the LaRue side of the house ...
A thread on here last week about the repeatability of Larue removable scope mounts prompted me to do some testing. Let me preface this with the admission that I am just a guy that has a passion for the best of the best when it comes to all things firearm related. For me, the most important factor in all firearms, is accuracy and precision, regardless of what it costs. There are many high priced weapon platforms, scopes...etc. that I have bought and sold or do not use because they don't fit my needs accuracy and precision wise. That does not make these products bad, everyone has their expectations and use for a product, for my use and needs these did not prove themselves to be what I want. Let me also say I am by no means a formally instructed , white coat wearing, lab product vetting type of any sort. Point is I am sure that there are better ways to test these mounts but this is how I did it and in my mind it seems to have been a feasibly relevant test. On to the good stuff. As some here that may have seen in previous posts of mine, I have what is IMO, an extraordinarily accurate 18" OBR. A rifle that shots far better than 1/2 MOA, 1/4 MOA is closer to the average, every time it spits a projectile out. The perfect platform to test any optic, mount etc. If this rifle does not shoot it is the fault of something other than the rifle itself. Test Rifle: Larue 2012 yr model 18" OBR Nightforce NXS 5.5-22x56 scope. TBA Supressor Handloaded Ammunition 175g Berger OTM Mount Tested: Laure LT112 PSR20, this is the 20 MOA mount. <a href="http://s105.photobucket.com/user/mngane/media/E1681A4B-218C-429B-BBC1-EB2B3BFC53E9_zpswtrjjtmd.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m240/mngane/E1681A4B-218C-429B-BBC1-EB2B3BFC53E9_zpswtrjjtmd.jpg</a> <a href="http://s105.photobucket.com/user/mngane/media/8489C527-D966-4293-9752-020976815D3F_zps1ychdsbv.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m240/mngane/8489C527-D966-4293-9752-020976815D3F_zps1ychdsbv.jpg</a> This rifle has had somewhere around 1000 rounds shot out of it. The only scope it has ever worn is this nightforce scope. This LT112 mount has been on the rifle for roughly 500 of those rounds. I changed to the 20 MOA LT112 to get more distance out of the scope. 1300 yards was max using the full adjustment range and the reticle with the previous LT111. The LT112 got me to 95 MOA of adjustment which gets me wayyyy out there. In the past when I have seen comments criticizing Larue mounts there is talk of "slide marks" on the underside of the mount, where it has slid back and forth under recoil. I will agree that this is a highly likely scenario with a mount that is NOT adjusted properly. In the next picture you will see that this mount with over 500 rounds, has no sign of slide marks. In fact you will see the oil dots where the rail contacts the mount and they are pristine where they ride the rail. This photo was taken after firing the first 3 shots as the test control target. <a href="http://s105.photobucket.com/user/mngane/media/4A399600-C999-4FAC-B660-EE124213FD65_zpsuzjcu5zv.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m240/mngane/4A399600-C999-4FAC-B660-EE124213FD65_zpsuzjcu5zv.jpg</a> <a href="http://s105.photobucket.com/user/mngane/media/0DDBEBBE-35DB-44C3-BA66-B9049B955B26_zpsqdbr1h2y.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m240/mngane/0DDBEBBE-35DB-44C3-BA66-B9049B955B26_zpsqdbr1h2y.jpg</a> I have also seen comments criticizing Larue mounts that if the mount was tight enough to keep from sliding then the levers would tear up the rail. I do not remove the scope from this rifle very often, maybe it has been off 10-15 times over the period of 500 rounds. After I was done shooting this test and had removed and re mounted the scope 8 times, I took this photo of the rail. There is no damage or distortion to the rail. There are several spots where the Anodizing has been marred, which IMO is a non issue and not what I would call damage. <a href="http://s105.photobucket.com/user/mngane/media/DC23CFB9-DECB-442E-A3C4-3FB340672C62_zpsmst6tgca.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m240/mngane/DC23CFB9-DECB-442E-A3C4-3FB340672C62_zpsmst6tgca.jpg</a> Now the meat. It has been well documented here with load development in this rifle how well it will shoot. I shot a 3 round control group to compare the next two targets to. I know there are people here that require 76 round groups to agree anything is proven, give me a pass here, a 5 round test group would have just made the final results boring, trust me. For the test I had a single target with 6 aiming points, I only used the top row of 3. The first group on the left, is the control group. For the next group I removed the scope, took pictures of the underside of the LT112 (posted above) Fired one round, removed scope, fired another, removed scope and fired another, for a 3 round group. The next target I did the same, starting by removing the scope and re mounting and then shot a 5 shot group with the same remove/shoot procedure. <a href="http://s105.photobucket.com/user/mngane/media/4134C89B-7157-4488-8C7D-586B242DC6F1_zpsjxgykcgr.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m240/mngane/4134C89B-7157-4488-8C7D-586B242DC6F1_zpsjxgykcgr.jpg</a> 1. control group size: .264 2. 3 shot group size: .341 (Removed/mounted every shot) 3. 5 shot group size .344 (Removed/mounted every shot) In my opinion I would say this is a fairly revealing test. With these results it is hard to dispute that the Larue mount, when properly adjusted, will return to zero in an amazingly consistent manner. Going in to this I had assumed that the results would be great but I honestly did not think it would be this consistent. I figured if there was less then 1/2 MOA movement then I was happy and the test was a success. If this rifle still shot MOA with a 5 shot remove/mount group I thought that would be excellent results. I am sure these results are no news to the folks at Larue, Mark and Mark are likely saying, "told you sumbitches"...... . I am a fan of Larue products because they work, they are quality engineered and executed and last but not least they reside in the greatest country known to man......................TEXAS
11 round review... nice... Lets go then! You and I Marky-Mark. Ill beat you by .3 MOA per 30-round group. ...Because his next 3 groups went to shit... Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile You know it looks incredibly unprofessional to talk shit like this when you run a business don't you? After reading this I know one manufacturer who's off my list of people to buy from. |
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Best, and finest also insinuates most reliable or durable. Can your $3,500 rifle do the same thing that a $1,500 BCM can? Quoted:
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Dupe...and the owner is all kinds of bragging about how brilliant he is. Now him and Mark LaRue are comparing dicks. Both those guys sure come across as dicks with ego and other related issues. When you build the finest/best/highest quality/most accurate production AR on the planet, you should brag too. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile If it's the finest, and best then why don't you run 40k on one gun with no cleaning? Only lube. What??? Who spends $55,000 on ammo to prove what a $3500 rifle can or cannot do? 100% irrelevant to the topic... or any perception of the topic. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Best, and finest also insinuates most reliable or durable. Can your $3,500 rifle do the same thing that a $1,500 BCM can? Considering there are probably more people out there that have won the lottery than own that rifle, who could say for sure? |
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Considering there are probably more people out there that have won the lottery than own that rifle, who could say for sure? I'm assuming that you're referring to the F&D gun, also I changed the question a little bit. How long can the F&D gun stay accurate and reliable, and can he prove it? What real world data does he have that makes his gun better than a LaRue, or LWRCi? |
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He must'a shot right past this question so I'll repost it ...
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Mr. Incredible, I'm hypothe-biggie-sizing here - but if you lost, wouldn't one assume that your potential and future rip-you-a-new-one court liabilities in your stir-up-the-hornet's-nest lawsuits would all convey with ownership of your magnificent firm ... so, ouch, so what's the upside ?
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Someone needs to make a condensed thread with all these F&D/LWRCi deals.... The multi-threads are getting hard to follow. Perhaps a cookoff instead of a shoot!!! A condensed thread would basically be: C_Hall: "I am the greatest, I said that even before I knew I was. I am the Muhammad Ali of .308s!!!!!! BOW BWFORE ME MORTALS!!!!" GD: "Dude, really?" Mark LaRue: "Who are you again?" C_Hall: "I told you. I am AwesomeMan. I drive around in my AwesomeVan, wronging rights and depressing the oppressed!!!! Wait, I got that backwards." Mark LaRue: "Cute company. I remember my first Fisher Price Lathe, too." C_Hall: I challenge you!!!!!! Everyone Else: 
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A condensed thread would basically be: C_Hall: "I am the greatest, I said that even before I knew I was. I am the Muhammad Ali of .308s!!!!!! BOW BWFORE ME MORTALS!!!!" GD: "Dude, really?" Mark LaRue: "Who are you again?" C_Hall: "I told you. I am AwesomeMan. I drive around in my AwesomeVan, wronging rights and depressing the oppressed!!!! Wait, I got that backwards." Mark LaRue: "Cute company. I remember my first Fisher Price Lathe, too." C_Hall: I challenge you!!!!!! Everyone Else: Quoted:
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Someone needs to make a condensed thread with all these F&D/LWRCi deals.... The multi-threads are getting hard to follow. Perhaps a cookoff instead of a shoot!!! A condensed thread would basically be: C_Hall: "I am the greatest, I said that even before I knew I was. I am the Muhammad Ali of .308s!!!!!! BOW BWFORE ME MORTALS!!!!" GD: "Dude, really?" Mark LaRue: "Who are you again?" C_Hall: "I told you. I am AwesomeMan. I drive around in my AwesomeVan, wronging rights and depressing the oppressed!!!! Wait, I got that backwards." Mark LaRue: "Cute company. I remember my first Fisher Price Lathe, too." C_Hall: I challenge you!!!!!! Everyone Else: The threads on the hide we're much worse. Too bad they got disappeared. |
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Looks like the latest lawsuit is for patent infringement???
http://www.scribd.com/doc/217786941/LWRC-International-LLC-v-F-D-Defense-LLC-Et-Al |
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Damn, just found this thread. Why is C_Hall posting here and shying away from the other? Dude, come to GA on a Saturday night or anytime Sunday and I will bring any REPR 12"-20" (your choice) AND an OBR and we will shoot all three. Don't dome some last minute Wednesday shit, I need time to arrange a sitter This seems like a reasonable challenge. What say you Hall? |
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This seems like a reasonable challenge. What say you Hall? Quoted:
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Damn, just found this thread. Why is C_Hall posting here and shying away from the other? Dude, come to GA on a Saturday night or anytime Sunday and I will bring any REPR 12"-20" (your choice) AND an OBR and we will shoot all three. Don't dome some last minute Wednesday shit, I need time to arrange a sitter This seems like a reasonable challenge. What say you Hall? "He already bailed on the challenge before, why should I do it this time?" I am predicting a response along these lines. Do I win? |
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I'm assuming that you're referring to the F&D gun, also I changed the question a little bit. How long can the F&D gun stay accurate and reliable, and can he prove it? What real world data does he have that makes his gun better than a LaRue, or LWRCi? Quoted:
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Considering there are probably more people out there that have won the lottery than own that rifle, who could say for sure? I'm assuming that you're referring to the F&D gun, also I changed the question a little bit. How long can the F&D gun stay accurate and reliable, and can he prove it? What real world data does he have that makes his gun better than a LaRue, or LWRCi? . Yes f@d rifle That is the whole point, there is NO prof of anything. How many matches has this rifle won, any state or government agency's use this rifle? Does anyone on AR15 . com own one of these rifles or know anyone that shoots one? On the hide that dude wanted no fucking part of a shooting challenge, now all of a sudden he is willing to put his company at stake for one. I shoot one or two matches a month and the only place I ever heard of an F@D rifle is on the internet. |
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Groups or it never happened .......
It's all wasted keystrokes here. Everybody knows that nobody in GD actually shoots their rifles 
Mark: many thanks for making the greatest mounts around. I have a few keeping my bits attached to my rifles. If only I could find a OBR somewhere to procure... |
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Groups or it never happened ....... It's all wasted keystrokes here. Everybody knows that nobody in GD actually shoots their rifles
Mark: many thanks for making the greatest mounts around. I have a few keeping my bits attached to my rifles. If only I could find a OBR somewhere to procure... I had a PredatOBR in my hands last night at a LGS 
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My buddy has an FD308. It's a very nice rifle, but it's the only one I have seen in person. Quoted:
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I shoot one or two matches a month and the only place I ever heard of an F@D rifle is on the internet. My buddy has an FD308. It's a very nice rifle, but it's the only one I have seen in person. Any details? Does he do any precision shooting, benchrest shooting or anything like that? Have you had a chance to shoot that rifle? By the way thank you for your reply. |
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"He already bailed on the challenge before, why should I do it this time?" I am predicting a response along these lines. Do I win? Quoted:
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Damn, just found this thread. Why is C_Hall posting here and shying away from the other? Dude, come to GA on a Saturday night or anytime Sunday and I will bring any REPR 12"-20" (your choice) AND an OBR and we will shoot all three. Don't dome some last minute Wednesday shit, I need time to arrange a sitter This seems like a reasonable challenge. What say you Hall? "He already bailed on the challenge before, why should I do it this time?" I am predicting a response along these lines. Do I win? WHo bailed before? |
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Here's hoping LWRC's lawsuit will at the very least wind up with a gag order on F&D. It would be for his own good but far more beneficial to the rest of us. Quoted:
Here's hoping LWRC's lawsuit will at the very least wind up with a gag order on F&D. It would be for his own good but far more beneficial to the rest of us. I don't think GD would be satiated unless the gag order was 3 demential
Also, Mr. Hall my offer still stands. Quoted:
Seriously if you want to put your money where your mouth is send one of your rifles to a member and have him test fire it. Hell, I'll sign a contract saying ill pay your ridiculous for an unknown product price if it lives up to your talk. ETA: Mark LaRue that goes for you too, but I'll just send you the check as soon as I get it 
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WHo bailed before? Quoted:
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Damn, just found this thread. Why is C_Hall posting here and shying away from the other? Dude, come to GA on a Saturday night or anytime Sunday and I will bring any REPR 12"-20" (your choice) AND an OBR and we will shoot all three. Don't dome some last minute Wednesday shit, I need time to arrange a sitter This seems like a reasonable challenge. What say you Hall? "He already bailed on the challenge before, why should I do it this time?" I am predicting a response along these lines. Do I win? WHo bailed before? Hall saying that Mikhail bailed. |
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He must'a shot right past this question so I'll repost it ... Quoted:
He must'a shot right past this question so I'll repost it ... Quoted:
Mr. Incredible, I'm hypothe-biggie-sizing here - but if you lost, wouldn't one assume that your potential and future rip-you-a-new-one court liabilities in your stir-up-the-hornet's-nest lawsuits would all convey with ownership of your magnificent firm ... so, ouch, so what's the upside ?
Can't quite equate this to winning " The 6666 Ranch - The Four Sixes " in a card game. So I ask again - what is the upside ? 
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Quoted: "He already bailed on the challenge before, why should I do it this time?" I am predicting a response along these lines. Do I win? Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Damn, just found this thread. Why is C_Hall posting here and shying away from the other? Dude, come to GA on a Saturday night or anytime Sunday and I will bring any REPR 12"-20" (your choice) AND an OBR and we will shoot all three. Don't dome some last minute Wednesday shit, I need time to arrange a sitter This seems like a reasonable challenge. What say you Hall? "He already bailed on the challenge before, why should I do it this time?" I am predicting a response along these lines. Do I win? That will be the reply. But last time he "came through" was a Wednesday night, and I'm Sorry but I have work and family commitments |
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Riiiight. Let's see the test targets or an independent review that you don't have a plethora of excuses for regarding why your rifle shot almost as well as a DPMS 308. Quoted:
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Dupe...and the owner is all kinds of bragging about how brilliant he is. Now him and Mark LaRue are comparing dicks. Both those guys sure come across as dicks with ego and other related issues. When you build the finest/best/highest quality/most accurate production AR on the planet, you should brag too. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Riiiight. Let's see the test targets or an independent review that you don't have a plethora of excuses for regarding why your rifle shot almost as well as a DPMS 308. Waiting on the reviews. |
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BTW Marky Mark... I sport a 2013 souped-up Makino a51nx. Does circles around your beat up, crashed-up Haas EC-500 POS. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Dang, we got us somewhere approaching 130 CNCs. Just added an Okuma GP25-T ... it grinds to 5 decimal places ... we call it Goliathan. Our ultra-precision OD Grinding Goliathan makes your micro-lapping look a lot like cleaning your ears.
Now, my bad, as I hope I haven't run you off again afore I could learn what F & D stands for. 
ETA - Cool results pic ... 
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No one will challenge because they know my rifles will out-do them. Any day, any week, any month, any year. It is interesting that when someone asks you a substantive question about your products you quickly retreat and claim you can't discuss to avoid promoting your products without being an industry partner. Yet here you are promoting your products without being an industry partner. How bout you man up, pay to become an industry partner and agree to never again discuss your products until you've done so? That's what an honorable person would do, don't you agree? |
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http://fd-defense.com/files/Halls_RFP_Response.pdf
Mark Larue - Ask your daughter for her opinion on these prints and Hall's copy of the NDA he signed while working for LWRC. |
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http://fd-defense.com/files/Halls_RFP_Response.pdf Mark Larue - Ask your daughter for her opinion on these prints and Hall's copy of the NDA he signed while working for LWRC. As I said in that earlier thread ... she's locked on point.
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