Warning

 

Close
Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Cancel Confirm
AR15.COM
10/27/2014 7:46:30 AM EDT
Got a speeding ticket on Saturday night. First one in more than a decade. Small town speed trap, here the limit drops from 45 to 25 for a few blocks.  Wrote me for 55 in a 25.  I was surprised I was going that fast, as it was dark and I was moving slower than the flow of traffic so that I could read street signs, needing to find an address in an unfamiliar neighborhood to pick up one of my kids.  I'm sure I was going more than 25, so a ticket might well be merited.

However, in PA 30 over is expensive ($217.50) and puts 5 points on your license (6 is suspension) not to mention that it tends to cause your insurance company to raise your rates. I know I can play the local game, pay a local lawyer to represent me and get it changed to a less severe offense as long as the town gets to keep my money. But I have a question about the need for the ticket to be accurate, and if it is wrong.

According to the ticket, I was clocked at 55.385 MPH, was measured for 2.41 seconds and covered .0358 miles.  I presume that is all calculated by whatever device they use for speed measurement (local depts. in PA can not use radar).

Only problem is the numbers don't match up. At that speed I should have travelled .0370 miles in 2.41 seconds. Using their measurements I would have been traveling at least 1 MPH slower.  While that may not seem like much it drops the violation down to a lessor category, with a smaller fine and fewer points.

Is this worth arguing, or is that simply considered in the noise for the measurement/equipment?  They are the ones who put 3 decimal points of accuracy on the violation.
10/27/2014 7:51:20 AM EDT
[#1]
If it meant that I could avoid getting points on my license, I would argue anything.
I have no idea about arguing the math involved or the equipment calibration or any of that, but I would get an attorney to try and get the ticket reduced. Something this drastic isn't something I would try to handle on my own.
10/27/2014 8:02:45 AM EDT
[#2]
Plead not guilty and take a hearing. Chances are, the judge will reduce the ticket.

Since it was a local officer, they used either a ROBIC, VASCAR or ENRAD to determine your speed. I don't know about the ENRAD, but the other two have a built in fudge factor (which benefits the driver) which means you were actually going faster than the speed written on the citation.
10/27/2014 8:05:32 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote History
Quoted:
Plead not guilty and take a hearing. Chances are, the judge will reduce the ticket.
View Quote

This.
If your traffic court allows plea bargaining then fight it.
10/27/2014 8:10:24 AM EDT
[#4]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VASCAR








I have never used VASCAR. Read up and find out how the officer was running VASCAR (stationary, moving, etc.) and how far away he was from the two fixed reference objects.

It also says that the officer generally enters the reference distance by traveling over it several times with his patrol vehicle and entering the value with his odometer.

Every odometer I've seen only goes down to one decimal place.





VASCAR


Most states allow police officers to catch speeders using technology called VASCAR (Visual Average Speed Computer and Recorder). Despite the fancy name, VASCAR amounts to a stopwatch coupled electronically with a calculator. The calculator divides the distance the target vehicle travels (as recorded by the stopwatch) by the time it took to travel that distance. For example, a car passing between two points 200 feet apart, over two seconds, is traveling an average speed of 200/2 or 100 feet per second, which converts to 68 miles per hour.


VASCAR is not like a radar or laser gun, which gives a readout of a vehicle’s speed by simply pointing and pulling the trigger. A VASCAR unit requires far more human input than radar or laser guns. As we will see, this also greatly increases the possibility of mistakes.


VASCAR works like this: The officer measures the distance between the two points by using a measuring tape or uses the patrol car’s odometer, which is connected to the VASCAR unit. When the officer sees the target vehicle pass one of two points, the officer pushes a button to start the electronic stopwatch, then pushes it again to stop it when the vehicle passes the second point.


A VASCAR unit is normally connected to an officer’s odometer to allow the measurement of a distance between two preselected points while driving past them. This also allows an officer to use the unit while moving. VASCAR units are engineered to take into account the police unit’s speed and the suspected vehicle’s speed by pressing the "time” switch twice as your car passes the two preselected points, and by pressing the "distance” button twice as the patrol car traverses those same two points.


The officer can use a VASCAR unit in five ways:



  • While stationary. The officer manually measures a certain distance with a tape or other measuring device, dials that measurement into the VASCAR unit, then clicks the "time” switch when the car passes the first and second distance marks.

  • While stationary, after having driven a set distance in his or her vehicle and using the odometer to enter that distance into the VASCAR unit. Again, the cop clicks the "time” switch when the car passes the first and second distance marks.

  • While following you and allowing the VASCAR unit to take into account that the patrol car is also moving.

  • While ahead of you, by pressing the "distance” switch twice as the officer passes between the two points, then the "time” switch twice as the officer watches you—through the rearview or side-view mirror—pass over the same two points.

  • While driving in the opposite direction, by clicking the "time” switch as you pass a point well ahead of the patrol car and by simultaneously pressing the "time” and the "distance” buttons as your cars go past each other—setting the second point. Then the officer presses the "distance” switch as he or she reaches the first point where he or she started to time you. (The officer then makes a quick U-turn to pull you over.)


VASCAR is obviously a much more flexible tool than pacing, since the officer does not have to be going the same speed as you are or follow you over any particular distance. As long as the officer manipulates the "time” and "distance” switches correctly and consistently, while accurately observing when your vehicle and the patrol car pass over the same two points, the officer can accurately track your speed.


But fortunately (from your point of view) using VASCAR correctly isn’t easy. For example, it is no easy thing to accurately push the "time” and "distance” buttons while observing the target pass between two points, at least one of which is almost sure to be far away from the officer. And, of course, doing this accurately is even harder when the patrol car is moving.















Different Types of VASCAR Errors


Short Distances. At short distances—generally less than 500 feet—reaction-time error is most likely to produce an incorrect VASCAR result. If the officer is late to the trigger when you cross the first measuring point, but accurate as you cross the second point, you will be clocked as going faster than you actually were. For this reason, a federally commissioned study of VASCAR recommends that to obtain accurate VASCAR readings, officers measure speeds over elapsed times of at least four seconds for stationary police units and five seconds for moving units.


The name of this study is "Analysis of VASCAR” and it is available for download from the U.S. Department of Transportation’s On Line Publications website, at http://isddc.dot.gov. To find the study, go to the site’s main search page and plug in the publication’s number (DOT HS 807 748) or the keyword "VASCAR.”


Long Distances. When VASCAR is used at distances greater than 1,500 feet, reaction-time errors are less of an issue. (Half a second one way or the other won’t make much difference.) Here, significant errors usually result because the officer simply doesn’t see when you pass the marker point farthest from the patrol car because it is too far away.





How VASCAR Fails


Because speed is defined as distance traveled per unit of time, timing an object’s passage between two measured points seems foolproof. But because VASCAR measurement depends entirely on human input—accurately pushing the button for "time” and "distance”—it is easy for errors to creep in. The most common three mistakes that can cause error in a VASCAR measurement are:



  • the inability of the officer to accurately see when a distant car passes a distant point

  • the officer’s reaction time (how long it takes him or her to push the button when a car passes a marker), and

  • the accuracy of the odometer on the officer’s car.


In its Legal Defense Kit for defending traffic tickets, the National Motorists Association of Waunaukee, Wisconsin (www?.motorists.org) includes a scientific study entitled "An Error Analysis of VASCAR-Plus,” by Kenneth A. Moore of JAG Engineering, Manassas, Virginia. Through numerous calculations, charts, and graphs, Moore demonstrates that VASCAR is most prone to error where the distance between the two clocking points is 1,500 feet or more. (He also agrees that it is prone to error below 500 feet.)


The possibility of VASCAR error is so well known that Pennsylvania lawmakers have taken action. Pennsylvania law (Title 75, Section 3368) forbids a VASCAR speeding conviction—where the speed limit is less than 55 mph—if the VASCAR speed readout isn’t more than 10 mph over the limit. That’s another way of saying, "We don’t trust the accuracy of a VASCAR unit that says ‘44 mph’ when the speed limit is 35.”


If you’re charged with speeding and the officer used VASCAR, you should try to bring up these possibilities for inaccuracy at trial. The best way to do this is to cross-examine the officer, knowing what questions to ask (see this article).



  • Officer’s Observation of Distant Point. When an officer times the passage of a car between two points, the officer must accurately record when the car passes each. This becomes more difficult the farther the officer is from either point. This is especially true at dusk, at night, and during bad weather, particularly fog or rain. For example, while VASCAR can be used at night, the officer must be able to see when vehicle headlights pass objects that may be illuminated poorly or not at all. Obviously, this is far more difficult than watching a car pass two nearby points at noon in good weather.

  • Officer’s Reaction Time. Reaction time is the time between observing something and responding to it. Especially where the distance between the two points is only a few hundred feet, an officer’s reaction time will greatly affect the speed calculated by the VASCAR unit. Here’s why: The shorter the distance between the two points, the lower the elapsed time a speeding car will take to pass through those two points. For example, if the distance is only 100 feet, the car will pass the second point in only a second or two, meaning a reaction-time error of only a few tenths of a second will affect the accuracy by 20% or 30%. On the other hand, if the distance between the two points is 1,000 feet—which takes 15 seconds for a car going 40 mph to pass—a reaction-time error of a few tenths of a second will affect the accuracy by only 1% to 2%. In promotional materials, VASCAR manufacturers claim reaction time isn’t a factor, because they assume that the officer will anticipate, rather than react to, your car passing each point. They also argue that any delayed reaction will be the same for each click of the VASCAR unit, thereby canceling out the error. This is faulty reasoning. There’s no guarantee that the officer will delay the same interval when pushing the button as you pass the first and then the second points. In fact, the officer may do a much better job at the second point because the officer’s eyes have now been fixed on your car for quite some time, making the officer better prepared to press the button. The result can easily be that the officer has erroneously shortened the time and, thereby, increased your recorded speed. Reaction-time error is likely to be worst in the situation where the officer’s vehicle is approaching yours from the opposite direction. For example, if you’re doing 65 mph northbound, and an officer is doing the same speed southbound, your closing speed is 130 mph, or 191 feet per second. If you’re 500 feet away, the officer has little more than two seconds to look ahead, watch your vehicle pass one point, hit the "time switch,” then hit the "time” switch again simultaneously with the "distance” switch as your cars pass each other. The officer then has a few more seconds to hit the "distance” switch a second time, hopefully just as the officer passes the same point you passed when he or she hit the "time” switch the first time. Operating VASCAR in the opposite direction is so difficult to do well that some police agencies discourage officers from using it this way. Your main goal is to attack the officer’s reaction time through cross-examination (see this article), focusing your questions on the difficulty in timing a car’s passage past a distant point. When it is your turn to testify, tell the judge in detail (if true) that your speed was at or under the limit—or safely above it in a "presumed” speed limit state. Finally, be prepared to argue during your closing argument (see Chapters 12 and 13) how your testimony as well as the officer’s responses to your cross-examination questions raise a reasonable doubt over whether you were violating the speeding law.

  • Odometer Error. The VASCAR unit’s accuracy depends on the accuracy of the police vehicle’s odometer, except where the distance between the two points is independently measured with a tape and dialed into the VASCAR unit. That is because the VASCAR gets its distance information via the patrol vehicle’s speedometer/odometer, to which it is connected. As the patrol vehicle moves forward, the cable linking the VASCAR unit to the speedometer/odometer turns, calculating how far the vehicle has moved from Point A to Point B. It is supposed to be recalibrated at least once a year. Tire wear and pressure can affect the accuracy of a speedometer. These factors will also affect odometer accuracy, because the odometer and speedometer both run off the same cable. For example, low tire pressure and tire wear on the police vehicle can result in a tire with a slightly smaller circumference than a new and properly inflated tire. The smaller wheel must make more revolutions to cover the same distance as a new tire. This results in erroneously high speedometer readings and in an exaggerated odometer distance reading. Since speed is distance divided by time, an erroneously high odometer distance fed into the VASCAR unit will result in an erroneously high speed reading.This type of error, however, is usually fairly small. For example, a 24-inch diameter tire that has lost one-quarter inch of tread will be 23.75 inches in diameter, a mere 2% less, so that the recorded distance and speed will be only 2% high. Still, this type of error, when added to other types of errors—like the ones listed above—may well result in an erroneous VASCAR reading. So, during cross-examination, ask when the VASCAR unit was last tested. If it was not tested recently, or the officer does not know when it was tested last, you should attack the accuracy of the test in your closing argument.

10/27/2014 8:11:40 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote History
Quoted:

This.
If your traffic court allows plea bargaining then fight it.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Quote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Plead not guilty and take a hearing. Chances are, the judge will reduce the ticket.

This.
If your traffic court allows plea bargaining then fight it.


Can't hurt to try, unless you have to take a day off work or something and end up losing money.
10/27/2014 8:11:44 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote History
Quoted:

This.
If your traffic court allows plea bargaining then fight it.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Quote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Plead not guilty and take a hearing. Chances are, the judge will reduce the ticket.

This.
If your traffic court allows plea bargaining then fight it.




I plan to plead not guilty and fight the ticket.  Just wondering if the inaccuracy in the math makes a difference.
10/27/2014 8:24:37 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote History
Quoted:


I plan to plead not guilty and fight the ticket.  Just wondering if the inaccuracy in the math makes a difference.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Quote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Plead not guilty and take a hearing. Chances are, the judge will reduce the ticket.

This.
If your traffic court allows plea bargaining then fight it.


I plan to plead not guilty and fight the ticket.  Just wondering if the inaccuracy in the math makes a difference.


It definitely could, but I don't think those numbers would come into play unless you went to trial over it.
10/27/2014 8:47:35 AM EDT
[#8]
I wouldn't approach it trying to fight the method that your speed was measured.  99.9% of the time, the officer recites the calibrations of the equipment, his certifications, and the judge takes that as 100% gospel.



Plead not guilty, get a trial date, and then have a pre-trial conference with the ADA or whatever prosecutor.  They'll likely offer you a deal.



Or, get a lawyer to do it, and you'll be almost assured of a reduced fine/conviction.



To me, the clean record and lower insurance premiums are more important than the fine.  I got stopped for running a red light.  I did it, completely in the wrong.  I hired a lawyer, and he got it knocked down to impeding - zero points, nothing on my record, and a $70 fine.  The lawyer cost me $350, but I still have a clean record, which makes it much more likely to get a break if I get stopped in the future.  And with a 16 year-old driver on my policy, I need everything else keeping my premiums as low as possible.
10/27/2014 8:53:51 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote History
Quoted:




I plan to plead not guilty and fight the ticket.  Just wondering if the inaccuracy in the math makes a difference.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Quote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Plead not guilty and take a hearing. Chances are, the judge will reduce the ticket.

This.
If your traffic court allows plea bargaining then fight it.




I plan to plead not guilty and fight the ticket.  Just wondering if the inaccuracy in the math makes a difference.


Make sure you plead not guilty and get a couple continuances, the officer will love that.  

Over here, those numbers do not matter unless you take it all the way to a trial but even then its hit or miss whether they're needed.  As long as the officer is certified on whatever he got you with and the equipment was calibrated, it's pretty much good to go.
10/27/2014 8:56:17 AM EDT
[#10]
I fought one before (really wasn't speeding) and "won". Not guilty and ordered to pay court cost which equaled to more than the cost of the ticket and required me to go to court twice. Not really worth it in the end.

The last time (was guilty 29 in a 25 going down a huge hill on my street) I called the DA and talked to them. They changed it from a speeding to a no gas cap ticket. Probably cost about the same but a non moving violation. They were more interested in the revenue than the actual violation.
10/27/2014 9:07:30 AM EDT
[#11]
You can also ask for a jury trial and go after the training the cop has had in some states
10/27/2014 9:09:21 AM EDT
[#12]
The argument is worthwhile.  Bring a stand with a large flip chart with the calculation worked out.  If you want to make it better, start drawing vectors of your path and the officer's location to show the measurement error due to position.



10/27/2014 9:12:16 AM EDT
[#13]
Show up at the opening. Things may go faster than normal, officer hasn't arrived, your case is called. You win.

(I read this in a "How to beat a ticket" article. Never used it, have no idea if it goes down like this).

If the officer brings a copy of the certificate of validation of the device used to measure your speed read this:

487 A.2d 897


338 Pa.Super. 149


COMMONWEALTH of Pennsylvania, Appellant,
v.
Lewis G. CUMMINGS.


Superior Court of Pennsylvania.


Argued April 3, 1984.
Filed Jan. 18, 1985.
View Quote


Unless the law has changed, the actual document must be submitted unless it has been authenticated. If the officer states he has never seen the original certificate of authentication he cannot vouch the photocopy is valid.

If the actual document is produced or the photocopy is authenticated try-

539 A.2d 814


372 Pa.Super. 317


COMMONWEALTH of Pennsylvania
v.
Gail DENNY, Appellant.


Superior Court of Pennsylvania.

..............................      A certificate of accuracy, if properly authenticated, is evidence of the fact that the radar device has been calibrated and tested pursuant to the requirements of § 3368(d). Section 3368(d) provides that the "department shall appoint stations for calibrating and testing." Thus, in order to meet the statutory requirements, the Commonwealth must show that the testing station was appointed by the Department of Transportation. Evidence, independent of the certificate itself, is necessary to prove this. A certificate of accuracy, issued by Thomas Associates, which merely states that Thomas Associates has been designated an official testing station, signed by David A. Thomas, is insufficient. We agree with appellant that an employee of the testing center cannot attest to the fact that the testing station has been appointed by the Department of Transportation as an official testing station.
View Quote


This is not me..................





10/27/2014 9:23:35 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote History
Quoted:
You can also ask for a jury trial and go after the training the cop has had in some states
View Quote


That can be a very expensive route.
10/27/2014 9:23:52 AM EDT
[#15]
Was the OP speeding?
10/27/2014 9:25:25 AM EDT
[#16]
Math is wrong, but not by much.  Your distance/time works out to 53.48 mph.

If the detection device relies on officer reaction times (VASCAR) you may have a case;  it all depends on how much you want to spend (time and money() fighting it.

If you have a clean record I suggest you go to court, plead not guilty, and ask the judge if it can be reduced.  Or hire a lawyer to do that for you.
10/27/2014 9:28:47 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote History
Quoted:
Show up at the opening. Things may go faster than normal, officer hasn't arrived, your case is called. You win.

(I read this in a "How to beat a ticket" article. Never used it, have no idea if it goes down like this).
View Quote


The officer won't be at the first court date.  He will simply go in a plead guilty/not guilty then they will schedule another court date.  The officer will get a subpoena time and they won't call the case before that time.
10/27/2014 9:30:34 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote History
Quoted:


The officer won't be at the first court date.  He will simply go in a plead guilty/not guilty then they will schedule another court date.  The officer will get a subpoena time and they won't call the case before that time.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Quote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Show up at the opening. Things may go faster than normal, officer hasn't arrived, your case is called. You win.

(I read this in a "How to beat a ticket" article. Never used it, have no idea if it goes down like this).


The officer won't be at the first court date.  He will simply go in a plead guilty/not guilty then they will schedule another court date.  The officer will get a subpoena time and they won't call the case before that time.


see my edit, especially the pic
10/27/2014 9:32:19 AM EDT
[#19]
Send it in not guilty, plea it down with the prosecutor to non-mover or parking tickets, and pay your fines.
10/27/2014 9:33:06 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote History
Quoted:

Make sure you plead not guilty and get a couple continuances, the officer will love that.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Quote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Plead not guilty and take a hearing. Chances are, the judge will reduce the ticket.

This.
If your traffic court allows plea bargaining then fight it.

I plan to plead not guilty and fight the ticket.  Just wondering if the inaccuracy in the math makes a difference.

Make sure you plead not guilty and get a couple continuances, the officer will love that.

I sure would, I loved pensionable traffic court OT.
10/27/2014 9:34:33 AM EDT
[#21]
Pay it. Stop speeding.
10/27/2014 9:36:18 AM EDT
[#22]
are the new radar guns that precise? The ones I used 7 years ago were + or - 1mph....

10/27/2014 9:38:09 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote History
Quoted:

I sure would, I loved pensionable traffic court OT.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Quote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Plead not guilty and take a hearing. Chances are, the judge will reduce the ticket.

This.
If your traffic court allows plea bargaining then fight it.

I plan to plead not guilty and fight the ticket.  Just wondering if the inaccuracy in the math makes a difference.

Make sure you plead not guilty and get a couple continuances, the officer will love that.

I sure would, I loved pensionable traffic court OT.


Exactly my point.  And try to schedule it on the officer's days off.  That's even better, 8 hour minimum if it's a show up then
10/27/2014 9:39:18 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote History
Quoted:
are the new radar guns that precise? The ones I used 7 years ago were + or - 1mph....

View Quote


I don't know many officer who still use radar.  We all pretty much use LIDAR around here.  Much more accurate.
10/27/2014 9:42:07 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote History
Quoted:
Pay it. Stop speeding.
View Quote


Damn, almost 2 hours before the sanctimonious perfect people posted; especially the ones that don't bother to read the post.

GD is getting mellow first thing on a Monday morning.
10/27/2014 9:43:47 AM EDT
[#26]
OP: I'm a PA cop and self appointed VASCAR superstar. First, VASCAR only measures to one tenth MPH. Second, neither yours nor the officer's math adds up to your speed, given the time and two distances presented. If it were me, I would fight it, or at least seek 5mph over. I wouldn't hire an attorney either if you just want 5 over, as an attorney will charge who knows what to ask for the same thing you can do on your own. Most courts are good with 5 over. If you really want to fight it the math is in your favor even without an attorney.  Also at bottom of citation it should list moving or parked mode and reference points used.


And for the record before all the crybabies: YES VASCAR IS EXTREMELY ACCURATE.


Edit: it's obvious a lot of people here don't know how traffic court works in PA. There's you, the officer, the Judge. No jury, no prosecutor, and only a lawyer if you want to spend 500 to fight a 220 ticket.  And you can PM me if you like, I'm only trying to help, and I love talking VASCAR.
10/27/2014 9:44:36 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote History
Quoted:
Exactly my point.  And try to schedule it on the officer's days off.  That's even better, 8 hour minimum if it's a show up then
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Quote History
Quoted:
Exactly my point.  And try to schedule it on the officer's days off.  That's even better, 8 hour minimum if it's a show up then

That they wouldn't let us do.

Quoted:
Quoted:
are the new radar guns that precise? The ones I used 7 years ago were + or - 1mph....

I don't know many officer who still use radar.  We all pretty much use LIDAR around here.  Much more accurate.

Most use radar here.
10/27/2014 9:45:36 AM EDT
[#28]
Here's how I do it. Scan the ticket and email to my lawyer. Receive invoice from lawyer. Pay invoice. Forget about ticket. No points, no time off from work, no wasting time in court. Yes it's that easy. Mike

 
10/27/2014 9:47:23 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote History
Quoted:
Here's how I do it. Scan the ticket and email to my lawyer. Receive invoice from lawyer. Pay invoice. Forget about ticket. No points, no time off from work, no wasting time in court. Yes it's that easy. Mike  
View Quote

Not every traffic court is like yours.
10/27/2014 9:53:20 AM EDT
[#30]



Quote History
Quoted:
Not every traffic court is like yours.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Quote History
Quoted:
Quoted:



Here's how I do it. Scan the ticket and email to my lawyer. Receive invoice from lawyer. Pay invoice. Forget about ticket. No points, no time off from work, no wasting time in court. Yes it's that easy. Mike  




Not every traffic court is like yours.
I don't think we even have a traffic court. LOL





 

 
10/27/2014 9:54:36 AM EDT
[#31]
Bikecop29 gave you all the information you need.  In your case short distance and time, leads to a good chance for error. I don't use VASCAR
10/27/2014 9:54:46 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote History
Quoted:


Make sure you plead not guilty and get a couple continuances, the officer will love that.  

Over here, those numbers do not matter unless you take it all the way to a trial but even then its hit or miss whether they're needed.  As long as the officer is certified on whatever he got you with and the equipment was calibrated, it's pretty much good to go.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Quote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Plead not guilty and take a hearing. Chances are, the judge will reduce the ticket.

This.
If your traffic court allows plea bargaining then fight it.




I plan to plead not guilty and fight the ticket.  Just wondering if the inaccuracy in the math makes a difference.


Make sure you plead not guilty and get a couple continuances, the officer will love that.  

Over here, those numbers do not matter unless you take it all the way to a trial but even then its hit or miss whether they're needed.  As long as the officer is certified on whatever he got you with and the equipment was calibrated, it's pretty much good to go.


Don't play that game too often unless you want a warrant and a free trip to the pokey. Okay to piss off the police not ok to piss off the judge.
10/27/2014 10:51:06 AM EDT
[#33]
Was he moving or stationary?

Does he have his measurement points labelled?

Can you hit the local forums and find the user manual and police sop for the use and issuance of citations?

Do you have gps and route recording?


How bad do you want them to hate you there?


Shawn
10/27/2014 11:15:15 AM EDT
[#34]

Quote History
Quoted:


Math is wrong, but not by much.  Your distance/time works out to 53.48 mph.



If the detection device relies on officer reaction times (VASCAR) you may have a case;  it all depends on how much you want to spend (time and money() fighting it.



If you have a clean record I suggest you go to court, plead not guilty, and ask the judge if it can be reduced.  Or hire a lawyer to do that for you.
View Quote
While having the officer's attention in court, throw a pen at him.

 



If he catches it--good reaction time.




If the pen hits him--bad reaction time.
10/27/2014 11:16:37 AM EDT
[#35]

Quote History
Quoted:
I don't know many officer who still use radar.  We all pretty much use LIDAR around here.  Much more accurate.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Quote History
Quoted:



Quoted:

are the new radar guns that precise? The ones I used 7 years ago were + or - 1mph....







I don't know many officer who still use radar.  We all pretty much use LIDAR around here.  Much more accurate.
And vehicle specific.

 



Don't have to go into your vehicle tracking history.




Just have to say you aimed the LIDAR at the offender's vehicle and got the speed measurement reading.
10/27/2014 11:28:41 AM EDT
[#36]
Go to court and ask to speak to your accuser.
10/27/2014 11:36:11 AM EDT
[#37]
Most traffic ticket lawyers charge about $175 to fight a speeding ticket for you. They'll exploit the system and request a jury trial. Since the government doesn't want to spend the money for a jury trial since the trial cost is far greater than that of the fine they'll generate, the government will likely drop or reduce the charges.

I've hired a lawyer to do the above a few times. It can take a year or two before the case comes up for trial. Within 6 months to two years, the cases were dropped or the charges greatly reduced.

Cops use the system against you for revenue generation, so use it right back against them.
10/27/2014 11:49:15 AM EDT
[#38]
Your best bet is to find an attorney that specializes in traffic offenses in that area.  A friend paid an attorney $100 and his ticket went away.
10/27/2014 11:57:41 AM EDT
[#39]
Plead guilty with an explanation.
Explain to the judge that you were going slower than the traffic because you were in an unknown area, as you mentioned above.
If you were polite to the cops, you should get away with no points, court costs and a fine.
Since it's been over ten years since your last ticket, that is also good.