[ARCHIVED THREAD] - First black powder (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 9/13/2016 10:06:31 PM EDT
So I just purchased my first black powder gun. I got a lnib Ruger Old Army from 1973. Having never fired a black powder before, educate me oh great gd!
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| I bought a Pietta Remington 1858 a couple months ago in 44 caliber, and love it. The Ruger Old Army is super-tough. If it is 44/45 caliber, you can buy Pyrodex pellets in 30 grain which is perfect for solid-framed guns. Be sure to check and see what size ball is recommended, too small and it won't be accurate. I shoot pellet/lubed patch/ball/bore butter in that order, and it keeps fouling to a minimum. |
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If you will be mobile, get a possibles bag, it will hold your powder/caps/balls. A capping aid helps but is not necessary. I use Pyrodex Pistol for powder because I can easily adjust the load.
I use a lube to top the loaded balls, but the lube viscosity that I use varies based on the outside temperature. Don't let it get too gummed up from shooting or disassembly will be miserable. Have fun! Mine:  |
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I bought a Pietta Remington 1858 a couple months ago in 44 caliber, and love it. The Ruger Old Army is super-tough. If it is 44/45 caliber, you can buy Pyrodex pellets in 30 grain which is perfect for solid-framed guns. Be sure to check and see what size ball is recommended, too small and it won't be accurate. I shoot pellet/lubed patch/ball/bore butter in that order, and it keeps fouling to a minimum. Is it worth it to buy the pellets instead of just pouring the powder? $22 for100 pellets seems expensive. |
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I find that my nipples last a long long time but the nipple wrenches wear out quickly - so also get a couple of nipple wrenches... Maybe I'm just getting cheap nipple wrenches. Quoted:
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Obtain a spare set of nipples for it. I bought one from track of the wolf as they have a good supply of bp stuff |
| Wash/clean it as soon as possible after firing. Burnt BP and Pyrodex is basically salt and will draw moisture from the air and cause corrosion to start within a few hours. That's the only thing I don't like about BP, is having to immediately clean everything after shooting. It's messy and stinky. |
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Quoted: Is it worth it to buy the pellets instead of just pouring the powder? $22 for100 pellets seems expensive. Quoted: Quoted: I bought a Pietta Remington 1858 a couple months ago in 44 caliber, and love it. The Ruger Old Army is super-tough. If it is 44/45 caliber, you can buy Pyrodex pellets in 30 grain which is perfect for solid-framed guns. Be sure to check and see what size ball is recommended, too small and it won't be accurate. I shoot pellet/lubed patch/ball/bore butter in that order, and it keeps fouling to a minimum. Is it worth it to buy the pellets instead of just pouring the powder? $22 for100 pellets seems expensive. Plus I like the tradition of loading them "old school". |
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I find that my nipples last a long long time but the nipple wrenches wear out quickly - so also get a couple of nipple wrenches... Maybe I'm just getting cheap nipple wrenches. Quoted:
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Obtain a spare set of nipples for it. Lol how often do you replace the nipples that you're wearing out the wrench? |
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Quoted: Lol how often do you replace the nipples that you're wearing out the wrench? Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Obtain a spare set of nipples for it. Lol how often do you replace the nipples that you're wearing out the wrench? |
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Not replace, but remove for thorough cleaning before storing. Quoted:
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Obtain a spare set of nipples for it. Lol how often do you replace the nipples that you're wearing out the wrench? I have a nipple wrench like this and It seems very sturdy. It will probably last me untill I die and Ive had it for probably 17 years already. 
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Quoted: I have a nipple wrench like this and It seems very sturdy. It will probably last me untill I die and Ive had it for probably 17 years already. http://images.wholesalehunter.com/prodpics/tcpic7084.jpg Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Obtain a spare set of nipples for it. Lol how often do you replace the nipples that you're wearing out the wrench? I have a nipple wrench like this and It seems very sturdy. It will probably last me untill I die and Ive had it for probably 17 years already. http://images.wholesalehunter.com/prodpics/tcpic7084.jpg  |
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That's a super good deal! I havent checked lately, but Im pretty sure they are going for over $500 these days. Quoted:
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How much did you pay for it? Those are worth quite a bit now days. $225 That's a super good deal! I havent checked lately, but Im pretty sure they are going for over $500 these days. I've seen them from $500 to $700 depending on year and model. |
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Any tips? Quoted:
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Enjoying cleaning it and coming back to find it rusted..... BP are fun, but a major PITA to try and get them clean enough to store. Any tips? You know what moose milk is? That's what I always cleaned mine with. Moose milk, scrub scrub, moosemilk, scrub...rinse with high % alcohol, then finish with rust preventative like CLP. |
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Any tips? Quoted:
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Enjoying cleaning it and coming back to find it rusted..... BP are fun, but a major PITA to try and get them clean enough to store. Any tips? Wish I did. And a bump... any tips for cleaning??? My BP muzzleloader is a "cheapo" modern one using the pellets, and 209 primers. |
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Best and toughest black powder revolver ever made. Some purist will complain that it is a modern gun...because it is.
It is safe to load the chambers to the maximum amount of powder they will hold, the Ruger owner's manual says so. Only use black powder or black powder substitutes such as pyrodex, 777, etc. DO NOT use smokeless powders; there is absolutely no point in trying it. It is based on the Blackhawk design and shares some common parts. Grips, sights, and hammer spring should be the same. Ruger does not have spare parts anymore, so the parts that are unique to the gun may be difficult to acquire. Treat it right and do lose any parts any you should be alright. The base pin retainer IS NOT a screw. It only turns a quarter turn to release the base pin. If you are not aware of this and attempt to take it out like a screw you can damage it and the base pin, parts you cannot get from Ruger anymore. Black powder and Pyrodex are corrosive. Clean immediately after shooting. Absolutely do not shoot it and let it sit over night without cleaning. Clean with soap and hot water; immediately dry and oil. There are plenty of black powder solvents that are available that will work too, but soap and water work well. "Regular" gun cleaning products may not remove the corrosive salt of black powder residue. Your gun is blued and will rust quite readily if this is not taken seriously. Stainless steel versions will tolerate some abuse, but black powder is hard on them too. The nipples are removable with a small socket or nut driver. Remove them when cleaning and use anti seize compound on the threads; this might be overkill, but if they rust in place it will not be fun. These can be really accurate, the round ball (use .457 diameter) will fit the cylinder exactly, unlike modern cartridges which will have a little slop in them. They can shoot conical bullets, but round balls are easier to work with. There really isn't any advantage to using conicals except for some hunting applications. Make sure you add some sort of grease on top the round balls after seating them. All kinds of products are available, but plain Crisco works pretty well if the ambient temperatures aren't to high. For lighter powder charges it may be necessary to put a filler on top of the powder before seating the balls. You can by felt wads or use corn meal. You do not want any air space between the ball and powder; the loading lever will only seat the ball so far. A filler material will ensure there is no empty space on light loads. Even if the ball can be seated against the powder, it might be advantageous to use a little filler. Some claim accuracy is a little better it the seated ball sits at the end of the chamber. |
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Wash/clean it as soon as possible after firing. Burnt BP and Pyrodex is basically salt and will draw moisture from the air and cause corrosion to start within a few hours. That's the only thing I don't like about BP, is having to immediately clean everything after shooting. It's messy and stinky. PAY ATTENTION TO THIS^ Cleaning MUST be a religion with black powder. They will corrode severely in the blink of an eye. The good news is hot soap & water is all you need. My buddy has a stainless one, he just strips the grips and puts it in the dishwasher......oil it down good after. I have had that exact gun for years OP I use Goex FFFG, mainly because that's what I have, and you should buy a slightly oversize ball. say a .451 I think is what I have. ETA: .457 or .458 is correct. When you seat the ball, the cylinder wall shaves a ring off the ball, this creates an excellent seal, and a flat for the rifling to engrave on. I top mine with lube over the ball, this prevents leading to some degree by lubing the bullet, and it seals the chamber to help prevent cross fires between cylinders, doubling down on the seal you get with the ball. I also use a felt wad between the powder and ball. Mine is VERY accurate loaded thus, and probably equal to a .38 special, if not better. |
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You know what moose milk is? That's what I always cleaned mine with. Moose milk, scrub scrub, moosemilk, scrub...rinse with high % alcohol, then finish with rust preventative like CLP. Quoted:
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Enjoying cleaning it and coming back to find it rusted..... BP are fun, but a major PITA to try and get them clean enough to store. Any tips? You know what moose milk is? That's what I always cleaned mine with. Moose milk, scrub scrub, moosemilk, scrub...rinse with high % alcohol, then finish with rust preventative like CLP. No, what is moose milk?? |
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Quoted: Any tips? Quoted: Quoted: Enjoying cleaning it and coming back to find it rusted..... BP are fun, but a major PITA to try and get them clean enough to store. Any tips? While shooting it in the field for any length of time, I'll use a modern non-water based cleaning method to keep it from gumming up. |
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You know what moose milk is? That's what I always cleaned mine with. Moose milk, scrub scrub, moosemilk, scrub...rinse with high % alcohol, then finish with rust preventative like CLP. Quoted:
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Enjoying cleaning it and coming back to find it rusted..... BP are fun, but a major PITA to try and get them clean enough to store. Any tips? You know what moose milk is? That's what I always cleaned mine with. Moose milk, scrub scrub, moosemilk, scrub...rinse with high % alcohol, then finish with rust preventative like CLP. Milk from a female moose? |
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Like I said - maybe I'm just buying cheap nipple wrenches... Quoted:
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I have a nipple wrench like this and It seems very sturdy. It will probably last me untill I die and Ive had it for probably 17 years already. http://images.wholesalehunter.com/prodpics/tcpic7084.jpg I know thats why I was telling you what I have and my impression of it. The one I have was in a package by Thompson Center. |
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Quoted: Enjoying cleaning it and coming back to find it rusted..... BP are fun, but a major PITA to try and get them clean enough to store. ETA: I see this has already been discussed. |
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Best and toughest black powder revolver ever made. Some purist will complain that it is a modern gun...because it is. It is safe to load the chambers to the maximum amount of powder they will hold, the Ruger owner's manual says so. Only use black powder or black powder substitutes such as pyrodex, 777, etc. DO NOT use smokeless powders; there is absolutely no point in trying it. It is based on the Blackhawk design and shares some common parts. Grips, sights, and hammer spring should be the same. Ruger does not have spare parts anymore, so the parts that are unique to the gun may be difficult to acquire. Treat it right and do lose any parts any you should be alright. The base pin retainer IS NOT a screw. It only turns a quarter turn to release the base pin. If you are not aware of this and attempt to take it out like a screw you can damage it and the base pin, parts you cannot get from Ruger anymore. Black powder and Pyrodex are corrosive. Clean immediately after shooting. Absolutely do not shoot it and let it sit over night without cleaning. Clean with soap and hot water; immediately dry and oil. There are plenty of black powder solvents that are available that will work too, but soap and water work well. "Regular" gun cleaning products may not remove the corrosive salt of black powder residue. Your gun is blued and will rust quite readily if this is not taken seriously. Stainless steel versions will tolerate some abuse, but black powder is hard on them too. The nipples are removable with a small socket or nut driver. Remove them when cleaning and use anti seize compound on the threads; this might be overkill, but if they rust in place it will not be fun. These can be really accurate, the round ball (use .457 diameter) will fit the cylinder exactly, unlike modern cartridges which will have a little slop in them. They can shoot conical bullets, but round balls are easier to work with. There really isn't any advantage to using conicals except for some hunting applications. Make sure you add some sort of grease on top the round balls after seating them. All kinds of products are available, but plain Crisco works pretty well if the ambient temperatures aren't to high. For lighter powder charges it may be necessary to put a filler on top of the powder before seating the balls. You can by felt wads or use corn meal. You do not want any air space between the ball and powder; the loading lever will only seat the ball so far. A filler material will ensure there is no empty space on light loads. Even if the ball can be seated against the powder, it might be advantageous to use a little filler. Some claim accuracy is a little better it the seated ball sits at the end of the chamber. Thanks!! Great info |
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Quoted: Enjoying cleaning it and coming back to find it rusted..... BP are fun, but a major PITA to try and get them clean enough to store. I would take the stocks off and pour boiling water all over it and down the bore. Dry in a low oven for thirty minutes then oil it up while still warm. Never had rust issues. PITA though. |
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No, what is moose milk?? Quoted:
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Enjoying cleaning it and coming back to find it rusted..... BP are fun, but a major PITA to try and get them clean enough to store. Any tips? You know what moose milk is? That's what I always cleaned mine with. Moose milk, scrub scrub, moosemilk, scrub...rinse with high % alcohol, then finish with rust preventative like CLP. No, what is moose milk?? I can get the recipe tomorrow. Its some concoction that all the old guys used to use to clean their BP stuff when I was a kid. I never actually learned what was in it because my family always had a bunch of it around. I bet that guy from OH who goes to rendezvous will know what Im talking about. I'll try and find him and send him an IM to come to this thread. |
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Any tips? Quoted:
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Enjoying cleaning it and coming back to find it rusted..... BP are fun, but a major PITA to try and get them clean enough to store. Any tips? Yes. BP is actually easy to clean. You use cold water first. Then soap and water (not detergent). Soap has the effect of resisting rust. Also cold water helps with preventing rust as corrosion is a chemical reaction. The more heat involved the faster the reaction. Finally rinse with cold water. If you have a compressed air source use this to dry all the parts. If not, then you are detailing drying all the surfaces, nooks and crannies with rags and swabs. Finally wipe all surfaces with a good preservative oil. If you are in a bit of a hurry, use WD-40 to displace the water from all the nooks and crannies. |
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Quoted: Yes. BP is actually easy to clean. You use cold water first. Then soap and water (not detergent). Soap has the effect of resisting rust. Also cold water helps with preventing rust as corrosion is a chemical reaction. The more heat involved the faster the reaction. Finally rinse with cold water. If you have a compressed air source use this to dry all the parts. If not, then you are detailing drying all the surfaces, nooks and crannies with rags and swabs. Finally wipe all surfaces with a good preservative oil. If you are in a bit of a hurry, use WD-40 to displace the water from all the nooks and crannies. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Enjoying cleaning it and coming back to find it rusted..... BP are fun, but a major PITA to try and get them clean enough to store. Any tips? Yes. BP is actually easy to clean. You use cold water first. Then soap and water (not detergent). Soap has the effect of resisting rust. Also cold water helps with preventing rust as corrosion is a chemical reaction. The more heat involved the faster the reaction. Finally rinse with cold water. If you have a compressed air source use this to dry all the parts. If not, then you are detailing drying all the surfaces, nooks and crannies with rags and swabs. Finally wipe all surfaces with a good preservative oil. If you are in a bit of a hurry, use WD-40 to displace the water from all the nooks and crannies. |
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I have a few cans of old gi bore cleaner for the garand, think this will work? You'd have to use a lot of it to ensure all of the salt is washed away. You'll be pulling salt back through the bore with the brush unless you can really rinse the crap out of everything like you can with hot soapy water and rinsing. |
| I bought a 36 caliber 1858 as well, and I have to shoot it with loose powder. You end up with leftover bore butter/crisco/lube on the pistol and in the cylinder and loose powder sticks to that unless you clean the bores of the cylinder. To me, it is worth the extra for the pellets and I shoot the 44 with pellets a lot more than the 36 with loose powder. |
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Use black powder. Don't have it locally, you can get it online.
Clean with hot soapy water or water- or alcohol-based cleaners (some people like Windex, I personally don't) only. DON'T LET ANY PETROLEUM BASED OILS OR SOLVENTS NEAR THE FOULING!!! Snake oil commercial "Bore Cleaners" are for subs only. Oil and grease come after the gun is clean. I can't emphasize that enough. The biggest gripe many people have with BP weapons is that they are hard to clean, and often it's a self inflicted problem. Never ever oil BP fouling, you will create a mess that will make you want to just throw the gun away. Real BP residue is easier to clean that any of the substitutes. You just have to remember that one little thing: It is not smokeless, don't clean it that way. |
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Use real BP.
Also, BP guns are MUCH easier to clean than people make it sound. All you need is boiling water and oil after. Either do the whole thing in a pot of boiling water or poor it over the pistol with the nipple off. Patch off the residue and the run a few oil patches through it. I've never had a gun rust out on me. |
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If you're gonna be blasting all day...which ain't hard to do, considering it takes 8-15min. to load when you're new.
Go to the dollar store, and find the plastic Ketchup/Mustard squeeze bottles. Snip the spout back until it's 1/4" or so at the opening. I had a buddy that was a baker by trade, and he used a piping bag for the same effect. Fill the bottle with Crisco or a generic Veggie shortening, for over the ball grease. It's not worth a damn for walking around in the heat, as it will eventually run out, but for the range when you're going to be shooting within a couple Min. of loading, it's cheaper than bore butter, and does the job just fine. Before starting the range session, spritz the whole pistol with a good coat of Pam, and wipe off the grip. It saves aggravation later. Loose Pyrodex is the way to go for the range. Make up a bench block that will hold your measure, or....6 .357 cases trimmed to hold your preferred charge of Pyrodex P. Put a dab of Gorilla grease on the nipple threads, BEFORE going to the range. Take a bottle of Windex with 5% Vinegar solution, and an old T-shirt to the range. The things get greasy quick. When you pack up for the trip home, give the thing a good spritz bath, and wipe down with the Windex mix, including the bore and cylinder. It makes clean up a LOT easier when you get back home. Windex+5% White vinegar is about the best solvent I have found for Pyrodex. When you are shopping for spare Nipples, look into Treso. They are tighter internally, so less pressure blows back into the cap mangling them, and hence fewer tie ups. They are also harder, and last longer than just about any other IME. The only PITA is they use a different wrench. Treso It's been years since I had the BP bug, so I'm sure there's a bunch of new stuff out there to make things easy, and more fun. |
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Use .457 balls. When pressed into the cylinder, a lead ring should be shaved off and tells you that the cylinder has been sealed.
Use only tight fitting #11 caps. Loose caps are the cause of chain fire. Elmer Keith wrote this in his book, Sixguns. I like 20 grains of FFF powder and use old cornmeal as filler material. I don't bother to grease the cylinder. |
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Use .457 balls. When pressed into the cylinder, a lead ring should be shaved off and tells you that the cylinder has been sealed. Use only tight fitting #11 caps. Loose caps are the cause of chain fire. Elmer Keith wrote this in his book, Sixguns. I like 20 grains of FFF powder and use old cornmeal as filler material. I don't bother to grease the cylinder. The old "grease over the ball" is not really necessary if you have a wad or filler over the powder charge, and as you said, chain fires generally are due to loose caps not sparks getting behind the ball (which is pretty unlikely even with nothing but powder and lead). A cap often splits and lets sparks blow out the sides when struck, if a loose cap gets blown off you have an open hole. |
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Yes. BP is actually easy to clean. You use cold water first. Then soap and water (not detergent). Soap has the effect of resisting rust. Also cold water helps with preventing rust as corrosion is a chemical reaction. The more heat involved the faster the reaction. Finally rinse with cold water. If you have a compressed air source use this to dry all the parts. If not, then you are detailing drying all the surfaces, nooks and crannies with rags and swabs. Finally wipe all surfaces with a good preservative oil. If you are in a bit of a hurry, use WD-40 to displace the water from all the nooks and crannies. Quoted:
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Enjoying cleaning it and coming back to find it rusted..... BP are fun, but a major PITA to try and get them clean enough to store. Any tips? Yes. BP is actually easy to clean. You use cold water first. Then soap and water (not detergent). Soap has the effect of resisting rust. Also cold water helps with preventing rust as corrosion is a chemical reaction. The more heat involved the faster the reaction. Finally rinse with cold water. If you have a compressed air source use this to dry all the parts. If not, then you are detailing drying all the surfaces, nooks and crannies with rags and swabs. Finally wipe all surfaces with a good preservative oil. If you are in a bit of a hurry, use WD-40 to displace the water from all the nooks and crannies. Thank you for the tips! May need to break my .45 cal BP rifle out to play with her armed with this new information. BP guns are a LOT of fun, just the cleaning is a bitch 
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I use hot soapy (dish soap is fine) water for cleaning.
WD-40 leaves a film and I don't recommend it for blackpowder. WD stands for water displacement. If you're worried about getting rid of any water that goes into the metal's pores, then toss it into the oven to dry (with grips removed). |
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Enjoying cleaning it and coming back to find it rusted..... BP are fun, but a major PITA to try and get them clean enough to store. Any tips? May have already replied to your question, but being lazy replying possibly again
BP guns are a LOT of fun, but require a LOT of maintence. Several other members have posted advice on cleaning that I myself will deploy. |