[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Fixing Social Security. (Page 1 of 5)
Posted: 2/20/2013 6:54:07 PM EDT
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I had an idea about how to fix Social Security.
We know we can't just stop it. That would never fly, and very few, if any, politicians from either side of the aisle would go for it. People have been forced to pay into it with some expectation of a return, so just stopping it would never be accepted. It will not happen. So hear me out, and tell me what you think. If I understand it correctly, once you've paid into Social Security for 40 quarters, you are considered to be vested and will receive benefits (with an exception for elderly immigrants). Correct me if I'm wrong on this point, and we can adjust the plan. So here's my plan. We have to make good on the plan for those who are vested, or nearly so. Again, to do otherwise would not be accepted by the general population, and would not be considered by politicians who want to keep their jobs (basically, all of them). All Social Security withholding would cease. Social Security would be funded from the general fund, from normal federal income taxes. Those who are vested, who have paid Social Security withholding for 40 quarters or more, would be paid their full entitlement at retirement age with COLA adjustments. We will make good on the promise. Those who have paid in for 20 to 39 quarters would have the choice of opting in to Social Security, or receiving a full refund of their Social Security taxes withheld, without interest, paid in a lump sum to invest or spend as they choose. The default would be that they opt IN, and must declare within one year that they want to opt OUT. Otherwise, they are in, at a reduced rate based on their contributions. Those who have paid in less than 20 quarters would be refunded their Social Security taxes withheld, without interest, paid in a lump sum to invest or spend as they choose. Yes, this would bite a bit in the beginning, and may result in an increase in federal income tax withholding, at least in the short term. In the long term, though, Social Security spending would be reduced and eventually eliminated. And those immigrants, who never paid a dime in, or paid very little, would be subject to the aforementioned terms. People would have to get educated about investment, and make their own choices about how their golden years will be funded. Investment opportunities are much more readily available now, and the government does not need to be in the business of doing what individuals can so easily and readily do for themselves. Do you consider this to be an acceptable, REALISTIC compromise? |
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its welfare for old folks (mostly)
unkle sugar should just be honest, its a tax. 1. take the same percentage from everyone, regardless of how much they make (end the ceiling). 2. means test about who gets it. lets face it, ted turner and bill gates dont need it. its no different from any other welfare and they need to be honest about and be done. |
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Won't happen!!!
Too many in the FSA would not invest any money or invest poorly, then when they are in thier 60-70's what would society do with them? Saying too damn bad is the quick easy answer, but it would just not fly. Seeing hundreds or thousands of homeless old people on the streets, people would be saying to the polititians take care of them. Knowing that one day they may or will need to be taken care of. Back to where we are now at that point. Social Security was set up to keep people from starving, it was not supposed to be to live off. But most Americans have no saving's and no investments for retirement. Those that do have something south of $25K for retirement, that won't last long. |
| How about we stop compromising. How about Americans get their head out of their ass and realize they can't have it both ways. Either you want socialism, or you don't. How about the goverment stop making me pay into something I do not want to recieve? I do not want Social Security. I do not want Medicare. I do not want any goverment assistance. So stop making me pay into it. Compromise??? Time for compromise is over. |
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What do you do when 30% of the population over 60 is homeless because they saved zero? What should the federal government do about it? Nothing. Let the states where they reside do what their voters want them to do about it. Free Market would take care of these people....Furthermore...it is not problem that people are idiots and do not think past this Friday. |
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its welfare for old folks (mostly) unkle sugar should just be honest, its a tax. 1. take the same percentage from everyone, regardless of how much they make (end the ceiling). 2. means test about who gets it. lets face it, ted turner and bill gates dont need it. its no different from any other welfare and they need to be honest about and be done. Sorry, I don't believe in means tests. The deduction was forced on them, they should be free to receive what was promised when those involuntary deductions were made, if they want to. |
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How about we stop compromising. How about Americans get their head out of their ass and realize they can't have it both ways. Either you want socialism, or you don't. How about the goverment stop making me pay into something I do not want to recieve? I do not want Social Security. I do not want Medicare. I do not want any goverment assistance. So stop making me pay into it. Compromise??? Time for compromise is over. I like that idea. Personally I never see myself retiring.... |
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How about we stop compromising. How about Americans get their head out of their ass and realize they can't have it both ways. Either you want socialism, or you don't. How about the goverment stop making me pay into something I do not want to recieve? I do not want Social Security. I do not want Medicare. I do not want any goverment assistance. So stop making me pay into it. Compromise??? Time for compromise is over. My plan would make everyone stop paying specifically for it, without unduly penalizing you for having been made to do so. |
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What do you do when 30% of the population over 60 is homeless because they saved zero? What should the federal government do about it? Nothing. Let the states where they reside do what their voters want them to do about it. That is how we got SS! At the federal level. You have greater representation at the state level. Use it. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: What do you do when 30% of the population over 60 is homeless because they saved zero? What should the federal government do about it? Nothing. Let the states where they reside do what their voters want them to do about it. That is how we got SS! At the federal level. You have greater representation at the state level. Use it. People look to DC to solve their problems. Poeple in DC promise whatever they want to hear. |
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What do you do when 30% of the population over 60 is homeless because they saved zero? Apparently they were such awful people that none of their family will take them in. Maybe they deserve to be homeless. Or maybe we can get the federal government out of it. If your neighbors need to be saved, let their neighbors decide if and how they should be saved. |
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What do you do when 30% of the population over 60 is homeless because they saved zero? What should the federal government do about it? Nothing. Let the states where they reside do what their voters want them to do about it. That is how we got SS! At the federal level. You have greater representation at the state level. Use it. People look to DC to solve their problems. Poeple in DC promise whatever they want to hear. They would have to start looking a little closer to home. |
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Saving social security is like trying to save the titanic.  True. But maybe we can offer people a better way to survive it. 
You're assuming that the total destruction of the country was not the end game all along. Either we have the most incompetent morons running the country (since 1900) or the most narcissistic sociopaths know to man. The blunders and outright criminal decisions that our so called leaders have made over the last century can only be one or the other. 
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| You can't win this fight in today's society. FSA is too big. Politicians win becuase they give out "free" stuff. People will vote for that everytime. Why? Because our public school system teaches them that. My generation(20-24) is full of FSA. All because of what school has taught them. They are entitled to (insert whatever) because they breath air. The only thing that will fix this is complete failure. We need our goverment to completely fail. Only then, will this shit stop. Oh, when it does fail...expect to see the FSA take the streets.....protesting about their "free" shit that is no longer there. |
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Saving social security is like trying to save the titanic. True. But maybe we can offer people a better way to survive it.
You're assuming that the total destruction of the country was not the end game all along. Either we have the most incompetent morons running the country (since 1900) or the most narcissistic sociopaths know to man. The blunders and outright criminal decisions that our so called leaders have made over the last century can only be one or the other. The real problem is the failure of the current politicians to undo the mistakes of the previous politicians.This would undo one of those mistakes in a realistic manner. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Apparently they were such awful people that none of their family will take them in. Maybe they deserve to be homeless. Or maybe we can get the federal government out of it. If your neighbors need to be saved, let their neighbors decide if and how they should be saved. They dont need to be saved. They need to be homeless. If their own family cant stand them enough to take them in, they have to be pretty awful people.
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An immediate buyout of people and an end to the program is what I would want. Or at least a way to opt out as a young person. .gov has no right to steal wealth from me that I might never see That's pretty much what my plan would do. Give the money back to those who have time to do something better with it, and make good on the promise to those who can't make that involuntary investment work for them because it's too late to make that money work for them. |
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An immediate buyout of people and an end to the program is what I would want. Or at least a way to opt out as a young person. .gov has no right to steal wealth from me that I might never see That's pretty much what my plan would do. Give the money back to those who have time to do something better with it, and make good on the promise to those who can't make that involuntary investment work for them because it's too late to make that money work for them. Sign me up! FDR really fucked up this country with these policies 
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Apparently they were such awful people that none of their family will take them in. Maybe they deserve to be homeless. Or maybe we can get the federal government out of it. If your neighbors need to be saved, let their neighbors decide if and how they should be saved. They dont need to be saved. They need to be homeless. If their own family cant stand them enough to take them in, they have to be pretty awful people. Yes and you are a sweetheart.... |
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Apparently they were such awful people that none of their family will take them in. Maybe they deserve to be homeless. Or maybe we can get the federal government out of it. If your neighbors need to be saved, let their neighbors decide if and how they should be saved. They dont need to be saved. They need to be homeless. If their own family cant stand them enough to take them in, they have to be pretty awful people. Look, if internment camps worked for Japanese Americans in the WWII era, they can work for Elderly Americans now. Wanna eat? Then plant and harvest. BTW, you should warn a guy when you change your avatar. Makes responding easier when you can recognize the poster without having to read usernames. |
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How about we stop compromising. How about Americans get their head out of their ass and realize they can't have it both ways. Either you want socialism, or you don't. How about the goverment stop making me pay into something I do not want to recieve? I do not want Social Security. I do not want Medicare. I do not want any goverment assistance. So stop making me pay into it. Compromise??? Time for compromise is over. Hear hear!! If you don't want to save for your future, that's on you! It's not the .gov's place (tax payers) to cover anyone's lazy ass. |
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An immediate buyout of people and an end to the program is what I would want. Or at least a way to opt out as a young person. .gov has no right to steal wealth from me that I might never see That's pretty much what my plan would do. Give the money back to those who have time to do something better with it, and make good on the promise to those who can't make that involuntary investment work for them because it's too late to make that money work for them. Sign me up! FDR really fucked up this country with these policies As did every politician, republican and democrat alike, that didn't repeal them. But hey, as long as they got reelected... |
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How about we stop compromising. How about Americans get their head out of their ass and realize they can't have it both ways. Either you want socialism, or you don't. How about the goverment stop making me pay into something I do not want to recieve? I do not want Social Security. I do not want Medicare. I do not want any goverment assistance. So stop making me pay into it. Compromise??? Time for compromise is over. Hear hear!! If you don't want to save for your future, that's on you! It's not the .gov's place (tax payers) to cover anyone's lazy ass. Yes, but same as dogs, you wean them, not yank them away from the teat and tell them to go find meat. |
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We have to make good on the plan for those who are vested, or nearly so. Again, to do otherwise would not be accepted by the general population, and would not be considered by politicians who want to keep their jobs (basically, all of them). All Social Security withholding would cease. Social Security would be funded from the general fund, from normal federal income taxes. That would mean an even bigger budget deficit than we currently have hastening the nearly inevitable collapse of the dollar. Those who are vested, who have paid Social Security withholding for 40 quarters or more, would be paid their full entitlement at retirement age with COLA adjustments. We will make good on the promise. Hyper-inflation due to .gov deficit spending will make COLA impossible to keep up with and destroy the SS payment value. Keeping this promise is like trying to keep a promise your drug addicted ex-wife made to someone else. Those who have paid in for 20 to 39 quarters would have the choice of opting in to Social Security, or receiving a full refund of their Social Security taxes withheld, without interest, paid in a lump sum to invest or spend as they choose. The default would be that they opt IN, and must declare within one year that they want to opt OUT. Otherwise, they are in, at a reduced rate based on their contributions. Those who have paid in less than 20 quarters would be refunded their Social Security taxes withheld, without interest, paid in a lump sum to invest or spend as they choose. More "stimulus" deficit spending to burden taxpayers with. No matter what SS is a pyramid scheme that can not survive the baby boomers. Trying to save it will just speed up the collapse of the country's financial stability which will kill SS even faster. The only way to save it would be for everyone to magically wake up with a complete grasp of how fucked we are and change their life plans in the interest of saving the country from collapse. Since that won't happen the system will collapse (all or in part) and folks will learn the hard way. Tons of old folks and especially little old widow ladies are milking the system dry as they whine about living on a fixed income. The reality for many of them is they have assets (CD's, Bonds, Property, etc.) worth hundreds of thousands of dollars but no income (because they and their dead husband are retired). At the very least SS payments should have a means test to get paid and it should be a mark of pride if you can retire without your .gov check. No income equals "poor" in the new America so these "poor" folks whine about how hard it is to survive on a fixed income while they jealously guard every dollar for their kids to spend when mom dies. These same poor folks demand free medical care for every ache and pain and a no-expense-spared approach to extending their lives. They bitch non-stop about how expensive things have gotten (back in my day you could buy a horse for $20 sonny) and how outrageously priced all the medical treatments and pills with no concept of how the massive "free" money from the government has warped the current medical system and inflated the price of everything they have to buy. |
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How about we stop compromising. How about Americans get their head out of their ass and realize they can't have it both ways. Either you want socialism, or you don't. How about the goverment stop making me pay into something I do not want to recieve? I do not want Social Security. I do not want Medicare. I do not want any goverment assistance. So stop making me pay into it. Compromise??? Time for compromise is over. Hear hear!! If you don't want to save for your future, that's on you! It's not the .gov's place (tax payers) to cover anyone's lazy ass. We are going to have a hell of a lot of homeless people with your plan do they just sleep on the street or do we go all Logan's run on their asses. |
| Humans aren't dogs. We were given the ability to make free choice. I do not care what the politicians promised you. I do not care if you have been paying into a failed program for 40 years. I do not care if you planned on living off of social security or it was apart of your "retirement plan". I am not here to care for other people because the goverment says I have to. I am here to take care of myself and people I deem worth my time/money. |
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Humans aren't dogs. We were given the ability to make free choice. I do not care what the politicians promised you. I do not care if you have been paying into a failed program for 40 years. I do not care if you planned on living off of social security or it was apart of your "retirement plan". I am not here to care for other people because the goverment says I have to. I am here to take care of myself and people I deem worth my time/money. Agreed. I am fed up with my assets being taken me me against my will to fund something I do not believe in
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How about we stop compromising. How about Americans get their head out of their ass and realize they can't have it both ways. Either you want socialism, or you don't. How about the goverment stop making me pay into something I do not want to recieve? I do not want Social Security. I do not want Medicare. I do not want any goverment assistance. So stop making me pay into it. Compromise??? Time for compromise is over. Hear hear!! If you don't want to save for your future, that's on you! It's not the .gov's place (tax payers) to cover anyone's lazy ass. We are going to have a hell of a lot of homeless people with your plan do they just sleep on the street or do we go all Logan's run on their asses. The fact that most people in today's society expect a safety net from the goverment is exactly why we will never be able to overcome this problem. People have been convinced that it will be a doomsday scenerio of the goverment stops providing for them. I call them sheep. |
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Humans aren't dogs. We were given the ability to make free choice. I do not care what the politicians promised you. I do not care if you have been paying into a failed program for 40 years. I do not care if you planned on living off of social security or it was apart of your "retirement plan". I am not here to care for other people because the goverment says I have to. I am here to take care of myself and people I deem worth my time/money. I don't disagree with the sentiment. However, we live in the real world, and if we don't develop a workable alternative, we will be stuck with what we have now. Don't you think it's better to come up with a less painful plan that works, than to be stuck with a plan that we know will not work? Which is better? A painful course that leads to an acceptable outcome, or a painful course that continues without end? I know that the ideal course is a full stop, but that's not realistic. |