[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Forbes:Tesla going open source (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 6/12/2014 10:54:18 AM EDT
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"Elon Musk has always been a rebel. Now he’s an open source rebel.
While many in Silicon Valley have railed against patent wars in recent years, and some have lobbied Washington to reform patent law, Tesla’s taking an unprecedented step of opening all its electric car patents to outside use." Link |
Fucking awesome.
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From the article.
Of course, there may also be a silver lining for Tesla. Musk says “the world would all benefit from a common, rapidly-evolving technology platform.” This may be true — but it could also aide Tesla’s rate of adoption. It may encourage other companies to start building charging stations and other products that would support Tesla’s growth. It’s also unclear exactly what using Tesla’s patents in “good faith” means. If Ford or GM decided to use the patents to create their own Tesla knockoffs, it seems unlikely Musk would let that slide. What if it’s a rival start-up instead? There are many unanswered questions. |
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He's not charging for use of the patent on their chargers. He's hoping that other cars adopt his charging standard which means more charging stations for his car.
He is NOT open sourcing his software (yet) though much of the in-dash system is built on linux and the components communicate over an ethernet network. The one guy who messed with the system and popped up firefox on the center console received a nastygram from Tesla telling him to knock it off. |
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He's not charging for use of the patent on their chargers. He's hoping that other cars adopt his charging standard which means more charging stations for his car. He is NOT open sourcing his software (yet) though much of the in-dash system is built on linux and the components communicate over an ethernet network. The one guy who messed with the system and popped up firefox on the center console received a nastygram from Tesla telling him to knock it off. LOL |
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LOL Quoted:
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He's not charging for use of the patent on their chargers. He's hoping that other cars adopt his charging standard which means more charging stations for his car. He is NOT open sourcing his software (yet) though much of the in-dash system is built on linux and the components communicate over an ethernet network. The one guy who messed with the system and popped up firefox on the center console received a nastygram from Tesla telling him to knock it off. LOL Apparently the system has tamper sensors in the software that reports back to them. |
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Apparently the system has tamper sensors in the software that reports back to them. Quoted:
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He's not charging for use of the patent on their chargers. He's hoping that other cars adopt his charging standard which means more charging stations for his car. He is NOT open sourcing his software (yet) though much of the in-dash system is built on linux and the components communicate over an ethernet network. The one guy who messed with the system and popped up firefox on the center console received a nastygram from Tesla telling him to knock it off. LOL Apparently the system has tamper sensors in the software that reports back to them. that is a good idea, and keeps ya from surfing arfcom on long trips.. |
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This. He just gave up billions of dollars. Quoted:
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Holy shit.  This. He just gave up billions of dollars. I think he actually just drastically increased the value of Tesla in the long term. With the Gigafactories that are are about to be built, Tesla will have 75% of the worlds lithium ion battery production under their control. If the opening up of the patents gets other companies to start building serious electric cars, where do you think they will be buying their cells from? Tesla has positioned itself as a luxury brand, they will never have more than a few percentage points of the total car market, but if they are supplying the batteries for virtually the entire electric car market, mass adaptation of electric cars by other manufactures will be VERY profitable for Tesla and Musk. Sure the argument could be made that the other car companies will simply build their own battery factories, but with Tesla having a huge head start, and 75% of the total production capacity, Tesla will be able to manipulate and control the market to make sure that the best option is to buy from them. Cars are a big business, but energy storage is an even bigger business. |
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Jervis Webb did this with some of his conveyance system designs. It's the same thing Magpul is doing with M-lok. You won't sell as much if it's proprietary. They want other people to make chargers and such. Tesla mission statement? "To accelerate the advent of sustainable transport by bringing compelling mass market electric cars to market as soon as possible. " |
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Awesome
Now hopefully everyone will standardize the battery packs and on charging stations. This was truly needed for electric cars to become feasible. Now you can drive a Ford electric car and charge at a Tesla station, or have the option of switching out the battery pack if you don't have time to wait for it to charge. I'd drive a Tesla, because it meets 98% of my need for a transportation vehicle and it looks good doing it. I'd still have my truck for other needs, but with a 275 mile range the Tesla makes a good case for electric cars. |
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Awesome Now hopefully everyone will standardize the battery packs and on charging stations. This was truly needed for electric cars to become feasible. Now you can drive a Ford electric car and charge at a Tesla station, or have the option of switching out the battery pack if you don't have time to wait for it to charge. I'd drive a Tesla, because it meets 98% of my need for a transportation vehicle and it looks good doing it. I'd still have my truck for other needs, but with a 275 mile range the Tesla makes a good case for electric cars. I think it's a mistake to standardize before the best feasible battery technology becomes available. If we standardize on what is available now, we will be stuck with it for many, many moons. New technology could come 5 years after everyone adapts Tesla's way of doing things, but even if the new technology is better in every way, nobody will touch it because there is too much institutional inertia and financial investment in the (new) status quo. Image what would happen tomorrow if a company invented a car that runs on sea water..... The four most probable outcomes would be: The designer either dies. The designer sells his patents, skips the country, and the patents are buried forever The government will outlaw the technology and make converting existing engines illegal The country will accept unfiltered sea water as the new norm, but it will cost you the same $4 a gallon to get it from a service station pump, despite being 2 blocks from the Atlantic Ocean, and if you 'dip 'n drive' the .gov will throw you in jail. I want something that is affordable, reliable, has directly comparable performance to an internal combustion engine FOR THE LIFE OF THE BATTERY PACK, something that works in all climates, something that is ecologically sustainable and can be recycled in a responsible, profitable way. To do anything less would be giving ourselves the short end of the stick. |
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I think it's a mistake to standardize before the best feasible battery technology becomes available. If we standardize on what is available now, we will be stuck with it for many, many moons. New technology could come 5 years after everyone adapts Tesla's way of doing things, but even if the new technology is better in every way, nobody will touch it because there is too much institutional inertia and financial investment in the (new) status quo. Image what would happen tomorrow if a company invented a car that runs on sea water..... The four most probable outcomes would be: The designer either dies. The designer sells his patents, skips the country, and the patents are buried forever The government will outlaw the technology and make converting existing engines illegal The country will accept unfiltered sea water as the new norm, but it will cost you the same $4 a gallon to get it from a service station pump, despite being 2 blocks from the Atlantic Ocean, and if you 'dip 'n drive' the .gov will throw you in jail. I want something that is affordable, reliable, has directly comparable performance to an internal combustion engine FOR THE LIFE OF THE BATTERY PACK, something that works in all climates, something that is ecologically sustainable and can be recycled in a responsible, profitable way. To do anything less would be giving ourselves the short end of the stick. Quoted:
Quoted:
Awesome Now hopefully everyone will standardize the battery packs and on charging stations. This was truly needed for electric cars to become feasible. Now you can drive a Ford electric car and charge at a Tesla station, or have the option of switching out the battery pack if you don't have time to wait for it to charge. I'd drive a Tesla, because it meets 98% of my need for a transportation vehicle and it looks good doing it. I'd still have my truck for other needs, but with a 275 mile range the Tesla makes a good case for electric cars. I think it's a mistake to standardize before the best feasible battery technology becomes available. If we standardize on what is available now, we will be stuck with it for many, many moons. New technology could come 5 years after everyone adapts Tesla's way of doing things, but even if the new technology is better in every way, nobody will touch it because there is too much institutional inertia and financial investment in the (new) status quo. Image what would happen tomorrow if a company invented a car that runs on sea water..... The four most probable outcomes would be: The designer either dies. The designer sells his patents, skips the country, and the patents are buried forever The government will outlaw the technology and make converting existing engines illegal The country will accept unfiltered sea water as the new norm, but it will cost you the same $4 a gallon to get it from a service station pump, despite being 2 blocks from the Atlantic Ocean, and if you 'dip 'n drive' the .gov will throw you in jail. I want something that is affordable, reliable, has directly comparable performance to an internal combustion engine FOR THE LIFE OF THE BATTERY PACK, something that works in all climates, something that is ecologically sustainable and can be recycled in a responsible, profitable way. To do anything less would be giving ourselves the short end of the stick. The energy density in battery packs, even if using bleeding edge tech, isn't remotely comparable to the energy density of hydrocarbon fuels. That's the fundamental problem with electric vehicles, and one not easily overcome. |
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I think it's a mistake to standardize before the best feasible battery technology becomes available. If we standardize on what is available now, we will be stuck with it for many, many moons. New technology could come 5 years after everyone adapts Tesla's way of doing things, but even if the new technology is better in every way, nobody will touch it because there is too much institutional inertia and financial investment in the (new) status quo. Image what would happen tomorrow if a company invented a car that runs on sea water..... The four most probable outcomes would be: The designer either dies. The designer sells his patents, skips the country, and the patents are buried forever The government will outlaw the technology and make converting existing engines illegal The country will accept unfiltered sea water as the new norm, but it will cost you the same $4 a gallon to get it from a service station pump, despite being 2 blocks from the Atlantic Ocean, and if you 'dip 'n drive' the .gov will throw you in jail. I want something that is affordable, reliable, has directly comparable performance to an internal combustion engine FOR THE LIFE OF THE BATTERY PACK, something that works in all climates, something that is ecologically sustainable and can be recycled in a responsible, profitable way. To do anything less would be giving ourselves the short end of the stick. Quoted:
Quoted:
Awesome Now hopefully everyone will standardize the battery packs and on charging stations. This was truly needed for electric cars to become feasible. Now you can drive a Ford electric car and charge at a Tesla station, or have the option of switching out the battery pack if you don't have time to wait for it to charge. I'd drive a Tesla, because it meets 98% of my need for a transportation vehicle and it looks good doing it. I'd still have my truck for other needs, but with a 275 mile range the Tesla makes a good case for electric cars. I think it's a mistake to standardize before the best feasible battery technology becomes available. If we standardize on what is available now, we will be stuck with it for many, many moons. New technology could come 5 years after everyone adapts Tesla's way of doing things, but even if the new technology is better in every way, nobody will touch it because there is too much institutional inertia and financial investment in the (new) status quo. Image what would happen tomorrow if a company invented a car that runs on sea water..... The four most probable outcomes would be: The designer either dies. The designer sells his patents, skips the country, and the patents are buried forever The government will outlaw the technology and make converting existing engines illegal The country will accept unfiltered sea water as the new norm, but it will cost you the same $4 a gallon to get it from a service station pump, despite being 2 blocks from the Atlantic Ocean, and if you 'dip 'n drive' the .gov will throw you in jail. I want something that is affordable, reliable, has directly comparable performance to an internal combustion engine FOR THE LIFE OF THE BATTERY PACK, something that works in all climates, something that is ecologically sustainable and can be recycled in a responsible, profitable way. To do anything less would be giving ourselves the short end of the stick. With Tesla the battery pack is warrantied for the life of the vehicle. If you want to get a new battery pack, just have it changed out at a Tesla charging station. They can remove the entire battery pack and install a 100% charged one faster than you can pump 20 gallons of gas. Yeah, the energy in the battery pack doesn't equal the energy of gasoline, but Tesla by far makes the longest range electric vehicle right now. It also happens to be an awesome car otherwise. That's why many luxury car makers are losing thousands of customers to Tesla. For an everyday driver the Tesla is perfect. Battery technology will continue to improve, but if the form factor for the battery pack is the same across all makes it's easier to offer services like battery pack exchanges. Otherwise you would be limited to only using the fast charge stations which take about 30 mins to charge the vehicle. |
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but Tesla by far makes the longest range electric vehicle right now. I have personally seen a BYD e6 go 450+km on a single charge although they only advertise 300km per charge. I believe the one I was in may have also been a test car since I was visiting BYD. Obviously its not available in the US. But, there are manufacturers that are getting similar distances to Tesla. |
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Can't wait for the new tesla jeep wrangler  I can't wait for the first manufacturer to put an electric motor inside each wheel on a 4X4. The gas motor could run a small generator to charge the battery pack volt-style and you'd have 100% torque available on demand at individual wheels at 0 rpm. You could still do regenerative braking, too. You would eliminate the transfer case, driveshafts, front and rear differentials (and center if full time), axle shafts, and front and rear lockers, and have the same capability. The only negative would be the increase in unsprung weight. |
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Quoted: I can't wait for the first manufacturer to put an electric motor inside each wheel on a 4X4. The gas motor could run a small generator to charge the battery pack volt-style and you'd have 100% torque available on demand at individual wheels at 0 rpm. You could still do regenerative braking, too. You would eliminate the transfer case, driveshafts, front and rear differentials (and center if full time), axle shafts, and front and rear lockers, and have the same capability. The only negative would be the increase in unsprung weight. Quoted: Quoted: Can't wait for the new tesla jeep wrangler I can't wait for the first manufacturer to put an electric motor inside each wheel on a 4X4. The gas motor could run a small generator to charge the battery pack volt-style and you'd have 100% torque available on demand at individual wheels at 0 rpm. You could still do regenerative braking, too. You would eliminate the transfer case, driveshafts, front and rear differentials (and center if full time), axle shafts, and front and rear lockers, and have the same capability. The only negative would be the increase in unsprung weight. I'm kind of surprised no one has. |
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I think he actually just drastically increased the value of Tesla in the long term. With the Gigafactories that are are about to be built, Tesla will have 75% of the worlds lithium ion battery production under their control. If the opening up of the patents gets other companies to start building serious electric cars, where do you think they will be buying their cells from? Tesla has positioned itself as a luxury brand, they will never have more than a few percentage points of the total car market, but if they are supplying the batteries for virtually the entire electric car market, mass adaptation of electric cars by other manufactures will be VERY profitable for Tesla and Musk. Sure the argument could be made that the other car companies will simply build their own battery factories, but with Tesla having a huge head start, and 75% of the total production capacity, Tesla will be able to manipulate and control the market to make sure that the best option is to buy from them. Cars are a big business, but energy storage is an even bigger business. Quoted:
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Holy shit. This. He just gave up billions of dollars. I think he actually just drastically increased the value of Tesla in the long term. With the Gigafactories that are are about to be built, Tesla will have 75% of the worlds lithium ion battery production under their control. If the opening up of the patents gets other companies to start building serious electric cars, where do you think they will be buying their cells from? Tesla has positioned itself as a luxury brand, they will never have more than a few percentage points of the total car market, but if they are supplying the batteries for virtually the entire electric car market, mass adaptation of electric cars by other manufactures will be VERY profitable for Tesla and Musk. Sure the argument could be made that the other car companies will simply build their own battery factories, but with Tesla having a huge head start, and 75% of the total production capacity, Tesla will be able to manipulate and control the market to make sure that the best option is to buy from them. Cars are a big business, but energy storage is an even bigger business. Very true. Not only that but now they don't have to pay for the R&D on advances of their own design. They just employed the world to figure out better ways to build their own products. |
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I'm kind of surprised no one has. Quoted:
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Can't wait for the new tesla jeep wrangler I can't wait for the first manufacturer to put an electric motor inside each wheel on a 4X4. The gas motor could run a small generator to charge the battery pack volt-style and you'd have 100% torque available on demand at individual wheels at 0 rpm. You could still do regenerative braking, too. You would eliminate the transfer case, driveshafts, front and rear differentials (and center if full time), axle shafts, and front and rear lockers, and have the same capability. The only negative would be the increase in unsprung weight. I'm kind of surprised no one has. If Jeep did that the purists would scream bloody murder because the solid axles are gone. |
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If Jeep did that the purists would scream bloody murder because the solid axles are gone. Quoted:
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Can't wait for the new tesla jeep wrangler I can't wait for the first manufacturer to put an electric motor inside each wheel on a 4X4. The gas motor could run a small generator to charge the battery pack volt-style and you'd have 100% torque available on demand at individual wheels at 0 rpm. You could still do regenerative braking, too. You would eliminate the transfer case, driveshafts, front and rear differentials (and center if full time), axle shafts, and front and rear lockers, and have the same capability. The only negative would be the increase in unsprung weight. I'm kind of surprised no one has. If Jeep did that the purists would scream bloody murder because the solid axles are gone. Just put a solid beam axle in there and suspend it from coils, they'll get over it. After thinking more about it, I would set it up like portal axles, with a hub drive planetary gearset and the motor offset above the axle axis. That way you could use conventional brakes, wheels, and tires with no backspacing concerns.
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If Jeep did that the purists would scream bloody murder because the solid axles are gone. Quoted:
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Can't wait for the new tesla jeep wrangler I can't wait for the first manufacturer to put an electric motor inside each wheel on a 4X4. The gas motor could run a small generator to charge the battery pack volt-style and you'd have 100% torque available on demand at individual wheels at 0 rpm. You could still do regenerative braking, too. You would eliminate the transfer case, driveshafts, front and rear differentials (and center if full time), axle shafts, and front and rear lockers, and have the same capability. The only negative would be the increase in unsprung weight. I'm kind of surprised no one has. If Jeep did that the purists would scream bloody murder because the solid axles are gone. Put the motors on the ends of a Dana 44.
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With Tesla the battery pack is warrantied for the life of the vehicle. If you want to get a new battery pack, just have it changed out at a Tesla charging station. They can remove the entire battery pack and install a 100% charged one faster than you can pump 20 gallons of gas. Yeah, the energy in the battery pack doesn't equal the energy of gasoline, but Tesla by far makes the longest range electric vehicle right now. It also happens to be an awesome car otherwise. That's why many luxury car makers are losing thousands of customers to Tesla. For an everyday driver the Tesla is perfect. Battery technology will continue to improve, but if the form factor for the battery pack is the same across all makes it's easier to offer services like battery pack exchanges. Otherwise you would be limited to only using the fast charge stations which take about 30 mins to charge the vehicle. Quoted:
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Awesome Now hopefully everyone will standardize the battery packs and on charging stations. This was truly needed for electric cars to become feasible. Now you can drive a Ford electric car and charge at a Tesla station, or have the option of switching out the battery pack if you don't have time to wait for it to charge. I'd drive a Tesla, because it meets 98% of my need for a transportation vehicle and it looks good doing it. I'd still have my truck for other needs, but with a 275 mile range the Tesla makes a good case for electric cars. I think it's a mistake to standardize before the best feasible battery technology becomes available. If we standardize on what is available now, we will be stuck with it for many, many moons. New technology could come 5 years after everyone adapts Tesla's way of doing things, but even if the new technology is better in every way, nobody will touch it because there is too much institutional inertia and financial investment in the (new) status quo. Image what would happen tomorrow if a company invented a car that runs on sea water..... The four most probable outcomes would be: The designer either dies. The designer sells his patents, skips the country, and the patents are buried forever The government will outlaw the technology and make converting existing engines illegal The country will accept unfiltered sea water as the new norm, but it will cost you the same $4 a gallon to get it from a service station pump, despite being 2 blocks from the Atlantic Ocean, and if you 'dip 'n drive' the .gov will throw you in jail. I want something that is affordable, reliable, has directly comparable performance to an internal combustion engine FOR THE LIFE OF THE BATTERY PACK, something that works in all climates, something that is ecologically sustainable and can be recycled in a responsible, profitable way. To do anything less would be giving ourselves the short end of the stick. With Tesla the battery pack is warrantied for the life of the vehicle. If you want to get a new battery pack, just have it changed out at a Tesla charging station. They can remove the entire battery pack and install a 100% charged one faster than you can pump 20 gallons of gas. Yeah, the energy in the battery pack doesn't equal the energy of gasoline, but Tesla by far makes the longest range electric vehicle right now. It also happens to be an awesome car otherwise. That's why many luxury car makers are losing thousands of customers to Tesla. For an everyday driver the Tesla is perfect. Battery technology will continue to improve, but if the form factor for the battery pack is the same across all makes it's easier to offer services like battery pack exchanges. Otherwise you would be limited to only using the fast charge stations which take about 30 mins to charge the vehicle. Yeah, swapping out battery packs instead of waiting around to charge them seems like the way to go. |
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Link to the sauces:
http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/all-our-patent-are-belong-you |
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This. He just gave up billions of dollars. Quoted:
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Holy shit. This. He just gave up billions of dollars. Or he just supercharged his future cash flow. By doing this, he most likely will stimulate the electric market by spurring the competition into action by giving them turn key solutions based on TESLA engineering. |
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already has. the mercedes benz b class electric uses a tesla drive train Quoted:
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Awesome! Can't wait for this to trickle down to other manufacturers. I'd love to be able to tweak my car's settings. already has. the mercedes benz b class electric uses a tesla drive train The mercs use it under license and all the parts are still made by Tesla. This new deal would/should let them make it all themselves and cut out Tesla entirely. |
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Quoted: I'm kind of surprised no one has. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Can't wait for the new tesla jeep wrangler I can't wait for the first manufacturer to put an electric motor inside each wheel on a 4X4. The gas motor could run a small generator to charge the battery pack volt-style and you'd have 100% torque available on demand at individual wheels at 0 rpm. You could still do regenerative braking, too. You would eliminate the transfer case, driveshafts, front and rear differentials (and center if full time), axle shafts, and front and rear lockers, and have the same capability. The only negative would be the increase in unsprung weight. I'm kind of surprised no one has. |
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This. He just gave up billions of dollars. Quoted:
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Holy shit. This. He just gave up billions of dollars. He also just potentially ensured the creation of the supporting infrastructure for EVs. One model of one automobile built in one factory is a novelty for the gentry. Remember when 300 Blackout was 300 whisper aka 300 fireball aka 300-221? I see it as a circumstance much like that. The industry needs more players. |
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The energy density in battery packs, even if using bleeding edge tech, isn't remotely comparable to the energy density of hydrocarbon fuels. That's the fundamental problem with electric vehicles, and one not easily overcome. Quoted:
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Awesome Now hopefully everyone will standardize the battery packs and on charging stations. This was truly needed for electric cars to become feasible. Now you can drive a Ford electric car and charge at a Tesla station, or have the option of switching out the battery pack if you don't have time to wait for it to charge. I'd drive a Tesla, because it meets 98% of my need for a transportation vehicle and it looks good doing it. I'd still have my truck for other needs, but with a 275 mile range the Tesla makes a good case for electric cars. I think it's a mistake to standardize before the best feasible battery technology becomes available. If we standardize on what is available now, we will be stuck with it for many, many moons. New technology could come 5 years after everyone adapts Tesla's way of doing things, but even if the new technology is better in every way, nobody will touch it because there is too much institutional inertia and financial investment in the (new) status quo. Image what would happen tomorrow if a company invented a car that runs on sea water..... The four most probable outcomes would be: The designer either dies. The designer sells his patents, skips the country, and the patents are buried forever The government will outlaw the technology and make converting existing engines illegal The country will accept unfiltered sea water as the new norm, but it will cost you the same $4 a gallon to get it from a service station pump, despite being 2 blocks from the Atlantic Ocean, and if you 'dip 'n drive' the .gov will throw you in jail. I want something that is affordable, reliable, has directly comparable performance to an internal combustion engine FOR THE LIFE OF THE BATTERY PACK, something that works in all climates, something that is ecologically sustainable and can be recycled in a responsible, profitable way. To do anything less would be giving ourselves the short end of the stick. The energy density in battery packs, even if using bleeding edge tech, isn't remotely comparable to the energy density of hydrocarbon fuels. That's the fundamental problem with electric vehicles, and one not easily overcome. I understand that you are never going to get a chemical conversion process as internal combustion-given that a gallon of gas will thow a car 25-30 mies when it explodes there is nothing this side of science fiction that will match that energy density. What I can ask for is enough battery to match the range of a practical gas car and meet the other criteria I listed. The care doesn't have to have 400 hp and 600 tq, most buyers will gladly give up the performance potential of an electric motor powered car for something they can plug in rather than fill up. Make a 4 passenger electric car with a 300 mile range for $18,000 with a reliable battery and performance warranty on the battery of 7 years and you'll have something. |
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I understand that you are never going to get a chemical conversion process as internal combustion-given that a gallon of gas will thow a car 25-30 mies when it explodes there is nothing this side of science fiction that will match that energy density. What I can ask for is enough battery to match the range of a practical gas car and meet the other criteria I listed. The care doesn't have to have 400 hp and 600 tq, most buyers will gladly give up the performance potential of an electric motor powered car for something they can plug in rather than fill up. Make a 4 passenger electric car with a 300 mile range for $18,000 with a reliable battery and performance warranty on the battery of 7 years and you'll have something. Quoted:
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Awesome Now hopefully everyone will standardize the battery packs and on charging stations. This was truly needed for electric cars to become feasible. Now you can drive a Ford electric car and charge at a Tesla station, or have the option of switching out the battery pack if you don't have time to wait for it to charge. I'd drive a Tesla, because it meets 98% of my need for a transportation vehicle and it looks good doing it. I'd still have my truck for other needs, but with a 275 mile range the Tesla makes a good case for electric cars. I think it's a mistake to standardize before the best feasible battery technology becomes available. If we standardize on what is available now, we will be stuck with it for many, many moons. New technology could come 5 years after everyone adapts Tesla's way of doing things, but even if the new technology is better in every way, nobody will touch it because there is too much institutional inertia and financial investment in the (new) status quo. Image what would happen tomorrow if a company invented a car that runs on sea water..... The four most probable outcomes would be: The designer either dies. The designer sells his patents, skips the country, and the patents are buried forever The government will outlaw the technology and make converting existing engines illegal The country will accept unfiltered sea water as the new norm, but it will cost you the same $4 a gallon to get it from a service station pump, despite being 2 blocks from the Atlantic Ocean, and if you 'dip 'n drive' the .gov will throw you in jail. I want something that is affordable, reliable, has directly comparable performance to an internal combustion engine FOR THE LIFE OF THE BATTERY PACK, something that works in all climates, something that is ecologically sustainable and can be recycled in a responsible, profitable way. To do anything less would be giving ourselves the short end of the stick. The energy density in battery packs, even if using bleeding edge tech, isn't remotely comparable to the energy density of hydrocarbon fuels. That's the fundamental problem with electric vehicles, and one not easily overcome. I understand that you are never going to get a chemical conversion process as internal combustion-given that a gallon of gas will thow a car 25-30 mies when it explodes there is nothing this side of science fiction that will match that energy density. What I can ask for is enough battery to match the range of a practical gas car and meet the other criteria I listed. The care doesn't have to have 400 hp and 600 tq, most buyers will gladly give up the performance potential of an electric motor powered car for something they can plug in rather than fill up. Make a 4 passenger electric car with a 300 mile range for $18,000 with a reliable battery and performance warranty on the battery of 7 years and you'll have something. It also needs a reasonable charge time. 15 minutes or less. |
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Quoted: It also needs a reasonable charge time. 15 minutes or less. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Awesome Now hopefully everyone will standardize the battery packs and on charging stations. This was truly needed for electric cars to become feasible. Now you can drive a Ford electric car and charge at a Tesla station, or have the option of switching out the battery pack if you don't have time to wait for it to charge. I'd drive a Tesla, because it meets 98% of my need for a transportation vehicle and it looks good doing it. I'd still have my truck for other needs, but with a 275 mile range the Tesla makes a good case for electric cars. I think it's a mistake to standardize before the best feasible battery technology becomes available. If we standardize on what is available now, we will be stuck with it for many, many moons. New technology could come 5 years after everyone adapts Tesla's way of doing things, but even if the new technology is better in every way, nobody will touch it because there is too much institutional inertia and financial investment in the (new) status quo. Image what would happen tomorrow if a company invented a car that runs on sea water..... The four most probable outcomes would be: The designer either dies. The designer sells his patents, skips the country, and the patents are buried forever The government will outlaw the technology and make converting existing engines illegal The country will accept unfiltered sea water as the new norm, but it will cost you the same $4 a gallon to get it from a service station pump, despite being 2 blocks from the Atlantic Ocean, and if you 'dip 'n drive' the .gov will throw you in jail. I want something that is affordable, reliable, has directly comparable performance to an internal combustion engine FOR THE LIFE OF THE BATTERY PACK, something that works in all climates, something that is ecologically sustainable and can be recycled in a responsible, profitable way. To do anything less would be giving ourselves the short end of the stick. The energy density in battery packs, even if using bleeding edge tech, isn't remotely comparable to the energy density of hydrocarbon fuels. That's the fundamental problem with electric vehicles, and one not easily overcome. I understand that you are never going to get a chemical conversion process as internal combustion-given that a gallon of gas will thow a car 25-30 mies when it explodes there is nothing this side of science fiction that will match that energy density. What I can ask for is enough battery to match the range of a practical gas car and meet the other criteria I listed. The care doesn't have to have 400 hp and 600 tq, most buyers will gladly give up the performance potential of an electric motor powered car for something they can plug in rather than fill up. Make a 4 passenger electric car with a 300 mile range for $18,000 with a reliable battery and performance warranty on the battery of 7 years and you'll have something. It also needs a reasonable charge time. 15 minutes or less. |