[ARCHIVED THREAD] - GAS! GAS! GAS! (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 12/20/2015 4:56:01 PM EDT
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Quoted:
The gas mask did nothing to stop the gas from burning your exposed skin. Hands, neck... anywhere the gas could settle on your skin. Even under your clothes. Lewisite and Sulfur Mustard were horrific things. I did not know that!  And here I was about to post some smart-alecky comment about "Ah, the good ol' days, when you didn't have to fight a war in an NBC spacesuit." 
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Quoted:
I did not know that! And here I was about to post some smart-alecky comment about "Ah, the good ol' days, when you didn't have to fight a war in an NBC spacesuit." Quoted:
Quoted:
The gas mask did nothing to stop the gas from burning your exposed skin. Hands, neck... anywhere the gas could settle on your skin. Even under your clothes. Lewisite and Sulfur Mustard were horrific things. I did not know that! And here I was about to post some smart-alecky comment about "Ah, the good ol' days, when you didn't have to fight a war in an NBC spacesuit." 
It was no joke. Still is no joke. Mustard is persistent too. It would freeze in puddles and then gas men when it thawed. Unexploded shells can still contain it, and it'll still wreck your whole week if it gets on you, eyes and mucus membranes and moist creases in skin first. Vast quantities were dumped offshore after the war, it turned into a waxy solid on the ocean floor and has gassed fishermen lucky enough to drag a net through it. Burns caused by it were messy, horribly painful and slow to heal. All of this was in the era before antibiotics too, so secondary infection of those burns was a frequent result. Still, by the time mustard came along most armies had a chance to learn gas defense on comparatively less dangerous war gasses like chlorine, phosgene, and various nonlethal harassing agents. It's really amazing how well the technology of the day was employed. Americans had a tough time of it, we didn't have the learning opportunities of the early war. We saw a lot more gas casualties than the others at the time we fought. |
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I just ordered the rare and expensive book titled " Tear Gas Munitions: An Analysis of Commercial Riot Gas Guns, Tear Gas Projectiles, Grenades, Small Arms Ammunition, and Related Tear Gas Devices" yesterday.If you're into the topic in general and haven't read it, I also suggest "A Higher Form of Killing: The Secret History of Chemical and Biological Warfare" by Robert Harris. I'd love to see the ww1 and prior portions of yours though, I'm sure that'd be really interesting. |
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http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/31/us/veterans-chemical-burns-expanded-military-doctors-knowledge-but-his-care-faltered.html?_r=0 "... Sergeant Mould, at the time assigned to an explosive ordnance disposal team on Dover Air Force Base, was dispatched to pick up the shell and bring it back the base. There, he said, he and a more senior noncommissioned officer misidentified it as a conventional, high-explosive 75-millimeter round..." |
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I just ordered the rare and expensive book titled " Tear Gas Munitions: An Analysis of Commercial Riot Gas Guns, Tear Gas Projectiles, Grenades, Small Arms Ammunition, and Related Tear Gas Devices" yesterday.I'd also like to recommend "Beyond Pepper Spray". |
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Quoted: Watching "Burning Dog" right now. You talking about when the reporter got his nuts stuck in the strap? Quoted: Quoted: Anyone else think of that scene from Gen Kill? Watching "Burning Dog" right now. You talking about when the reporter got his nuts stuck in the strap?  |
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Quoted:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/31/us/veterans-chemical-burns-expanded-military-doctors-knowledge-but-his-care-faltered.html?_r=0 "... Sergeant Mould, at the time assigned to an explosive ordnance disposal team on Dover Air Force Base, was dispatched to pick up the shell and bring it back the base. There, he said, he and a more senior noncommissioned officer misidentified it as a conventional, high-explosive 75-millimeter round..." Yep, lots of stuff was dropped off the eastern seaboard after the war. Even more later on, up through the 70's, in the Operation CHASE disposals. "Cut Holes And Sink Em". lol. The stuff in the clam beds off Delmarva always seems to be old ww1 stuff though. |
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Quoted: This. World War One must've fucking sucked. Quoted: Quoted: Hell on Earth. I just got done reading 3 books on WWI. It is hard to comprehend the hell the men on both sides faced. Tanks, machine guns, massive artillary shells, & gas all introduced for the first time. And a steep learning curve to counter them. Verdun alone is just soul sucking to read about. |
| During the Gulf War when Sadam was lobbing scuds at us we got a cherry a week before the ground offensive. His third night with us we figured out he was really buying into the threat of chemical attack. So while he was racked out on his cot we all threw on our MOP gear and stood around his bunk. We then made enough noise arguing about who didn't check on the cherry that he woke up. We then just stopped and stared at him. The dude just about shit himself and stopped talking to anyone for about two weeks. It was hysterical. |
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Quoted:
If you're into the topic in general and haven't read it, I also suggest "A Higher Form of Killing: The Secret History of Chemical and Biological Warfare" by Robert Harris. I'd love to see the ww1 and prior portions of yours though, I'm sure that'd be really interesting. Quoted:
Quoted:
I just ordered the rare and expensive book titled " Tear Gas Munitions: An Analysis of Commercial Riot Gas Guns, Tear Gas Projectiles, Grenades, Small Arms Ammunition, and Related Tear Gas Devices" yesterday.If you're into the topic in general and haven't read it, I also suggest "A Higher Form of Killing: The Secret History of Chemical and Biological Warfare" by Robert Harris. I'd love to see the ww1 and prior portions of yours though, I'm sure that'd be really interesting. I read that in High-School, pretty good book. |
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I spent 2 years as a tower-rat on a chem storage site in Germany.
Daily gas drill, lots of MOPP time, and always terrified to use my pro-mask carrier as a pillow because there were live auto-injectors inside. (Bored GI's take things apart to see how they work so a lot of the safety clips were just for show.) ETA: All of our masks were pressure tested every year by the chemical company responsible for maintaining the munitions. Mine failed every time.
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Quoted:
Anyone else think of that scene from Gen Kill? Living in MOPP and going to MOPP 4 several times a day for almost a month sucked. Outside of Ad Dywania my AXO woke my up in my fighting position one night in full MOPP by shaking me and saying GAS, it was a panicked scrambling to find my mask |
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Quoted: I just got done reading 3 books on WWI. It is hard to comprehend the hell the men on both sides faced. Tanks, machine guns, massive artillary shells, & gas all introduced for the first time. And a steep learning curve to counter them. Verdun alone is just soul sucking to read about. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Hell on Earth. I just got done reading 3 books on WWI. It is hard to comprehend the hell the men on both sides faced. Tanks, machine guns, massive artillary shells, & gas all introduced for the first time. And a steep learning curve to counter them. Verdun alone is just soul sucking to read about. before trench warfare set in, since it seems like such a weird period in the history of warfare. The alpine campaigns in Italy seem like their own unique shitstorm as well. |
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Quoted:
WW III will be worse.  I don't know. Depending on what site you use, deaths during WWI is around 35,000,000 -- that's just a hair under the population of California. Think about WW1. While on a timeline they were spitting distance to the Boxer Rebellion, Sino-Japanese War, Civil War, and others they were worlds apart. Gone were the times of picket lines, shooting muskets at each other from a few yards, and openly charging into the face of the rifle. Now they had machine guns capable of firing more in one volley than an entire division of muskets. Tanks and other wheeled vehicles were used, airplanes, explosives, gas, and so many other things to try to take the ground. No one had experience in these things so there was no precedent on how, how much, and when to use them. It was almost a "fuck it, let the dogs lose" kind of mentality. There just wasn't a metric to go buy. Now, with a century of knowledge, smart bombs, more accurate small weapons, and such I don't think it will reach that level. The only way I can see that happening is if major urban cities are actually in the fight, not targeted, but occupied an fought over. Or nukes. 
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Now, with a century of knowledge, smart bombs, more accurate small weapons, and such I don't think it will reach that level. The only way I can see that happening is if major urban cities are actually in the fight, not targeted, but occupied an fought over. Or nukes. Unleashing high end chem or biowarfare on population centers could do it too. Most of us have never seen what it looks like when major world powers wage absolute war though, so it seems impossible. We've got treaties, we've got agreements. They did a hundred years ago too though. |
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Quoted:
Unleashing high end chem or biowarfare on population centers could do it too. Most of us have never seen what it looks like when major world powers wage absolute war though, so it seems impossible. We've got treaties, we've got agreements. They did a hundred years ago too though. Quoted:
Quoted:
Now, with a century of knowledge, smart bombs, more accurate small weapons, and such I don't think it will reach that level. The only way I can see that happening is if major urban cities are actually in the fight, not targeted, but occupied an fought over. Or nukes. Unleashing high end chem or biowarfare on population centers could do it too. Most of us have never seen what it looks like when major world powers wage absolute war though, so it seems impossible. We've got treaties, we've got agreements. They did a hundred years ago too though. You're absolutely right that none of us here know what absolute war looks like -- civilians or military. And I'd wager to say the same globally, not many, if any, left. And we can all agree that treaties and agreements aren't worth the ink they are signed in, especially this day in age. Maybe it's just because I can't see all of a first world's major cities being occupied... Really, what I'm thinking is that the only way WWIII is worse than WWI is if the entire planet is kicked into the stone age. Which, as development advances, isn't outside the realm of possibility. |
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Quoted: Living in MOPP and going to MOPP 4 several times a day for almost a month sucked. Outside of Ad Dywania my AXO woke my up in my fighting position one night in full MOPP by shaking me and saying GAS, it was a panicked scrambling to find my mask Quoted: Quoted: Anyone else think of that scene from Gen Kill? Living in MOPP and going to MOPP 4 several times a day for almost a month sucked. Outside of Ad Dywania my AXO woke my up in my fighting position one night in full MOPP by shaking me and saying GAS, it was a panicked scrambling to find my mask I about rolled my fucking truck trying to mask up and not lose the convoy, because no one else was stopping, and our truck was the only one monitoring that net. |
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Quoted:
The gas mask did nothing to stop the gas from burning your exposed skin. Hands, neck... anywhere the gas could settle on your skin. Even under your clothes. Lewisite and Sulfur Mustard were horrific things. And to think that those are mild and ineffective compared to nerve agents.
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The US had a liberty ship full of mustard gas bombs blown up in a raid by the luftwaffe in italy in WWII with distrastrous results-
http://www.rense.com/general16/WWIIluftwaffe.htm |
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Dulce et Decorum
Bent double, like old beggars under sacks, Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge, Till on the haunting flares we turned our backs And towards our distant rest began to trudge. Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame; all blind; Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots Of tired, outstripped Five-Nines that dropped behind. Gas! Gas! Quick, boys! – An ecstasy of fumbling, Fitting the clumsy helmet just in time; But someone still was yelling out and stumbling, And flound'ring like a man in fire or lime . . . Dim, through the misty panes and thick green light, As under a green sea, I saw him drowning. In all my dreams, before my helpless sight, He plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning. If in some smothering dreams you too could pace Behind the wagon that we flung him in, And watch the white eyes writhing in his face, His hanging face, like a devil's sick of sin; If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs, Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues, My friend, you would not tell with such high zest To children ardent for some desperate glory, The old Lie; Dulce et Decorum est Pro patria mori. |
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Quoted: If you're into the topic in general and haven't read it, I also suggest "A Higher Form of Killing: The Secret History of Chemical and Biological Warfare" by Robert Harris. I'd love to see the ww1 and prior portions of yours though, I'm sure that'd be really interesting. Quoted: Quoted: I just ordered the rare and expensive book titled " Tear Gas Munitions: An Analysis of Commercial Riot Gas Guns, Tear Gas Projectiles, Grenades, Small Arms Ammunition, and Related Tear Gas Devices" yesterday.If you're into the topic in general and haven't read it, I also suggest "A Higher Form of Killing: The Secret History of Chemical and Biological Warfare" by Robert Harris. I'd love to see the ww1 and prior portions of yours though, I'm sure that'd be really interesting. I did get my book in the mail today. It starts with the French police gassing thieves and rioters with non-lethal gasses in 1912. No mention of poison gasses really which is okay because i didnt buy the book for that. This book was published in 1966 and whats most interesting is that while some devices like gas gun models have changed over time, the shells and grenades have not changed all that much at all since it was published. |