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AR15.COM
12/2/2014 11:25:01 PM EDT
Grid coordinates moving over the years.

A little back story, I purchased a used Garmin ETrex GPS unit and used it on a hunting trip recently. According to a topographic map dated 1983 my GPS coordinate taken from the ETrex was roughly 1/2 a grid square too far North. Is it possible that with the extra precision with today's satellites that my ETrex could have been that far off or has the grid moved over the years to reflect the fact that the topo map I had was outdated??

I saved the way-points and entered them into Google maps and it appears that the ETrex way-points are spot on! This led me to a conclusion that the 1983 survey for the topo map either moved or was off to begin with.

Discuss

AKASL

LIVE FREE OR DIE
12/2/2014 11:26:40 PM EDT
[#1]
Was the old grid based off of true north? Or magnetic North?
12/2/2014 11:30:32 PM EDT
[#2]
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Quoted:
Was the old grid based off of true north? Or magnetic North?
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The 1983 map was a USGS Topographic Map that uses Grid North with a Magnetic North indicator.

AKASL

12/2/2014 11:32:47 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote History
Quoted:


The 1983 map was a USGS Topographic Map that uses Grid North with a Magnetic North indicator.

AKASL

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Quoted:
Quoted:
Was the old grid based off of true north? Or magnetic North?


The 1983 map was a USGS Topographic Map that uses Grid North with a Magnetic North indicator.

AKASL




Declination angle.
12/2/2014 11:33:50 PM EDT
[#4]
Did you use the right datum in the gps for the map?
12/2/2014 11:34:35 PM EDT
[#5]
Was your GPS set in the same projection/coordinate system as the map?

If the map is a USGS topo from 1983, I'd assume it was in NAD27, while your GPS was likely in WGS84.
12/2/2014 11:36:40 PM EDT
[#6]
Probably related to the WGS84 vs NAD83 differences, or similar.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Geodetic_System
12/2/2014 11:40:54 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote History
Quoted:
Was your GPS set in the same projection/coordinate system as the map?

If the map is a USGS topo from 1983, I'd assume it was in NAD27, while your GPS was likely in WGS84.
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I don't have the map in front of me so I can't comment on the NAD27, but I do know the GPS was set for WGS84

AKASL


12/2/2014 11:47:46 PM EDT
[#8]
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Quoted:


I don't have the map in front of me so I can't comment on the NAD27, but I do know the GPS was set for WGS84

AKASL


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Quoted:
Quoted:
Was your GPS set in the same projection/coordinate system as the map?

If the map is a USGS topo from 1983, I'd assume it was in NAD27, while your GPS was likely in WGS84.


I don't have the map in front of me so I can't comment on the NAD27, but I do know the GPS was set for WGS84

AKASL




Just looked it up and verified that most USGS topos printed prior to 2009 use NAD27 datum.  That was likely the source of the error.

http://education.usgs.gov/lessons/mapmargin.pdf

12/3/2014 12:25:50 AM EDT
[#9]
Get a topo map from freetopomaps.com. I have the SE one, it has streets and roads, along with the usual topo symbols. Only the very newest roads are not on it.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
12/3/2014 12:52:38 AM EDT
[#10]
Check the datum in the GPS vs what's on the quad.

NAD83?
NAD27?
UTM?

Unless there's a software issue (and be sure to check for updates) there's no difference between the signals sent 10 years ago vs today.
12/3/2014 12:55:36 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote History
Quoted:
Probably related to the WGS84 vs NAD83 differences, or similar.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Geodetic_System
View Quote

For all intents and purposes there's no discernible difference between nad83 and wgs84. Huge difference between nad27 and nad83
12/3/2014 1:01:09 AM EDT
[#12]
The guys are right, the position is correct the map just moved.

It's a datum change/error.
12/3/2014 11:21:40 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote History
Quoted:

For all intents and purposes there's no discernible difference between nad83 and wgs84. Huge difference between nad27 and nad83
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Probably related to the WGS84 vs NAD83 differences, or similar.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Geodetic_System

For all intents and purposes there's no discernible difference between nad83 and wgs84. Huge difference between nad27 and nad83

Yeah I couldn't remember which ones were similar, vs different. So I tagged on "or similar" to cover myself