Posted: 9/4/2024 11:45:25 PM EDT
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Looking for info on the time frame that your department replaces everyones glocks. We are at 5 years on our MOS 45's. 10 years sounds realistic. Thoughts? ( also posted in LE equip forum) |
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Ask what does Glock recommend? Call and ask. Ask what does the FBI do? When using those two guides you will have a good idea. Part of the answer may be to replace wear parts and springs on a schedule. The last agency I worked for had the same Gen 3 Glock 22 for at least 15 yrs. There are still guys out there carrying old S&W revolvers that are over 30 yrs old. The key is having an armorer that stays on top of inspection and repairs. One of my favorite carry guns is a Gen 3 Glock 35 that I have carried since 2003. I would not be too quick to suggest changing from Glock 45 MOS there are good level 2&3 holsters for that. Glock 45 with MOS direct mount for Aimpoint ACRO would be good if you need additional. |
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Age has nothing to do with replacement. Average rounds fired is what you need to judge. Most agencies/departments will mandate qualification 2-4 times per year with 200-400 rounds fired for a total of anywhere between 500- 2,000 rounds per year. Some may be a little more, some may be a little less. 1,500 rounds a year x 20 years is well within the realistic modern service pistol life span. Swat or SRT members will be the exception to this average. As long as you have a schedule for maintenance, like "replace recoil spring every 4,000 rounds" and "complete rebuild and respring at 20,000 rounds", there is no reason a full size glock cant go 50,000+ rounds easy. Very few departments will ever exceed the actual service life of most common "duty guns", as long as preventive maintenance is done on a schedule. My old agency shot more rounds than anyone else in the government. By a wide margin... Our P229 DA/SA guns were on a strict 10,000 rebuild schedule. I had one pistol that was retired at around 60K when they found a hairline crack on the frame at the edge of the dust cover. My second was retired at 40K when it was sent in for service, because they needed donor guns to make simunition weapons... My old agency was the rare exception. You can probably figure out what fed agency that was... Very few LEOs will ever run a duty weapon to 50K in an average 20 year career unless they are part of an SRT or SWAT unit. If they are a real firearms enthusiast and enjoy shooting, that guy is probably going to shoot other personal guns on their days off. The issued duty weapon will probably live its life in his locker on days off, and rarely be carried when not on the clock. |
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NYresq1 is spot on. Another metric departments use for replacement is the service life of the tritium night sights, which is about 12 years. In larger departments, the logistics of swapping night sights and the armorers time, It's just slightly more expensive just to buy new. Remember they get a bulk discount and they get a trade in credit for their existing guns. You also have manufacturers that will outfit large departments almost for free ,including holsters just for promotional purposes. H&K, S&W and recently FN. |
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Originally Posted By Notthatkindofnurse: Looking for info on the time frame that your department replaces everyones glocks. We are at 5 years on our MOS 45's. 10 years sounds realistic. Thoughts? ( also posted in LE equip forum) Ten years is probably safe. We had Glock 22s and 23s. At around year 15-16 the metal slide tabs molded in the frame started cracking at the bend. A couple broke locking up the guns prompting an agency wide inspection. Our state agency followed the Glock service and maintenance guidelines. Unfortunately Glock maintenance schedules were based on their 9mm experience not the .40s. They were stand up about it. The replaced 350 guns under warranty as all our spring replacements and parts up grades were documented. All they really were insistent on was getting the three pre ban mags back for each gun. They also revised the .40 cal guns service and spring replacement interval. We had the replacements for about 6-8 years and traded them in for gen 5s. Somewhere during the warranty replacement guns we ditched the NY triggers for stock Glock triggers. I can tell you when I turned in my worn out original issue gun (that had a crack starting on the L rear slide tab) and had to qualify with the new gun out of the box the difference in the feel of the springs was drastic. Trigger, recoil spring.......hugely noticeable that the old ones were weak. Lol, scores dipped a little too with brand new NY triggers after the 15-16 year old worn triggers. We also had a hiatus from shooting around then due to lack of ammo availability. So new stiff triggers and rusty fingers for the ones that never shoot on their own time......well that got the bosses to ditch the NY triggers. You have to remember the reason for the NY triggers was the agencies were concerned about transition from the old 12 pound DA pull on revolvers. That was far enough in the rear view mirror and those that made the original NY trigger decision were all retired by then. Just after I left the three year old gen 5 .40 cals were replaced by 9mm Glocks. |
The only hyphenated names I like are cartridge names......30-06, 30-40, 38-55 etc.
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FWIW my EDC is a Gen 2 G23 with well north of 10K rounds through it. Honestly, I've lost count. I have broken or worn out almost every part on that gun at one time or another. The only original parts are the frame, slide, trigger housing, mag release, and extractor plunger and spring. Just the other week it got it's third barrel (Jarvis) and a new recoil spring assembly, the latter being replaced every year or two. If or when the frame cracks it will be a very sad day around here from a sentimental perspective. I am on the cusp of replacing it with a Gen 3 with almost no rounds through it. |
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The baseline for guns should be aircraft style maintenance- replace before failure, not after. You can do that poorly by trying to keep log books, round counts, excel spreadsheets… Or, you can figure out it’s logistically cheaper and safer (liability) to issue a new gun to new hires and replace all guns at the 8 year mark. All gear has a duty life. Don’t wait until it fails to replace it. The basic number is 8 years or when something is wrong with it. |
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Originally Posted By aa777888-2: FWIW my EDC is a Gen 2 G23 with well north of 10K rounds through it. Honestly, I've lost count. I have broken or worn out almost every part on that gun at one time or another. The only original parts are the frame, slide, trigger housing, mag release, and extractor plunger and spring. Just the other week it got it's third barrel (Jarvis) and a new recoil spring assembly, the latter being replaced every year or two. If or when the frame cracks it will be a very sad day around here from a sentimental perspective. I am on the cusp of replacing it with a Gen 3 with almost no rounds through it. What the hell are you doing that you have worn out parts on a glock, and three barrels in 10K rounds?? I have close to 25k through my 17, and around 20k through a 26 (both are gen 4) and the barrels are as accurate as anything new out of the box? Do you not lube anything? |
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Our Road guys first got our first Glock 22s in the mid-90s. Gen 2 IIRC. No finger grooves. I think it was about ten years before the road guys got new guns; the old ones went to the Corrections division and remained in service a distressingly long time, probably another ten years on those original Glocks before they were finally retired. I recall that the Federal ban was still in effect in the run up to getting new guns for the road guys. The old guns all had pre-ban mags, and wholesalers were offering stupid deals on trade-ins to get their hands on those old mags. By the time we actually pulled the trigger on new guns the fed ban had expired, and the deals were gone. Typically dragging our feet on a good deal cost us money in the long run. I remember carrying the RTF Glock 22s for a while, and those were pretty quickly swapped out for new guns. "Those RTFs did tear up uniforms and car seats, although I liked their "grip-iness" The very last iteration of Glock 22s we carried only lasted a couple of years and were swapped out right round the time the covid-era ammo shortage hit. Great time to be switching to a new caliber. I think that first year of carrying the Glock 17 we only had enough ammo per officer to qualify and run a few courses of fire. I much preferred the G22 over the G17 Now I hike with my G43 and carry a G29SF as my EDC. |
*post contains personal opinion only and should not be considered information released in an official capacity*
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Originally Posted By NYresq1: What the hell are you doing that you have worn out parts on a glock, and three barrels in 10K rounds?? I have close to 25k through my 17, and around 20k through a 26 (both are gen 4) and the barrels are as accurate as anything new out of the box? Do you not lube anything? Originally Posted By NYresq1: Originally Posted By aa777888-2: FWIW my EDC is a Gen 2 G23 with well north of 10K rounds through it. Honestly, I've lost count. I have broken or worn out almost every part on that gun at one time or another. The only original parts are the frame, slide, trigger housing, mag release, and extractor plunger and spring. Just the other week it got it's third barrel (Jarvis) and a new recoil spring assembly, the latter being replaced every year or two. If or when the frame cracks it will be a very sad day around here from a sentimental perspective. I am on the cusp of replacing it with a Gen 3 with almost no rounds through it. What the hell are you doing that you have worn out parts on a glock, and three barrels in 10K rounds?? I have close to 25k through my 17, and around 20k through a 26 (both are gen 4) and the barrels are as accurate as anything new out of the box? Do you not lube anything? Frangible eats barrels. Having said that...Glock barrels tend to go beyond 10K. I worked with an agency that had the bright ideal to clean their guns with a drill that they chucked a cleaning rod into and put a stainless steel brush on. It was on their cleaning bench and their "armorer" went down the line on every gun doing it. It made me cringe. They also did the "we run the guns dry because oil attracts dirt" nonsense. They were stuck in a feedback loop of stupid. |
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Originally Posted By FedDC: Frangible eats barrels. Having said that...Glock barrels tend to go beyond 10K. I worked with an agency that had the bright ideal to clean their guns with a drill that they chucked a cleaning rod into and put a stainless steel brush on. It was on their cleaning bench and their "armorer" went down the line on every gun doing it. It made me cringe. They also did the "we run the guns dry because oil attracts dirt" nonsense. They were stuck in a feedback loop of stupid. Originally Posted By FedDC: Originally Posted By NYresq1: Originally Posted By aa777888-2: FWIW my EDC is a Gen 2 G23 with well north of 10K rounds through it. Honestly, I've lost count. I have broken or worn out almost every part on that gun at one time or another. The only original parts are the frame, slide, trigger housing, mag release, and extractor plunger and spring. Just the other week it got it's third barrel (Jarvis) and a new recoil spring assembly, the latter being replaced every year or two. If or when the frame cracks it will be a very sad day around here from a sentimental perspective. I am on the cusp of replacing it with a Gen 3 with almost no rounds through it. What the hell are you doing that you have worn out parts on a glock, and three barrels in 10K rounds?? I have close to 25k through my 17, and around 20k through a 26 (both are gen 4) and the barrels are as accurate as anything new out of the box? Do you not lube anything? Frangible eats barrels. Having said that...Glock barrels tend to go beyond 10K. I worked with an agency that had the bright ideal to clean their guns with a drill that they chucked a cleaning rod into and put a stainless steel brush on. It was on their cleaning bench and their "armorer" went down the line on every gun doing it. It made me cringe. They also did the "we run the guns dry because oil attracts dirt" nonsense. They were stuck in a feedback loop of stupid. Frang ammo does eat barrels, absolutely. I have witnessed it first hand as an instructor at the academy where all they shoot is frang ammo. But even the worst I saw was a Sig 229 barrel that was key holing rounds after 10k... No way you are eating 3 glock barrels in 10k, I don't care what kind of ammo you are shooting. Glock has some of the hardest factory barrels in the business. I have seen test guns with documented round counts in the 30,000 round range of mixed frang, duty and fmj, that still print groups on par with new barrels. I have seen test glocks abused like no ones business, even some that were abused for testing with the intention of seeing "what breaks at how many rounds, when...?", but "I have broken or worn out almost every part on that gun at one time or another" in 10k rounds...? nah, not buying it. |
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Originally Posted By fergus556: We got G17's in 2013. I retired in 2020 and as far as I know they are still in service. Take care of them they last a very long time. The only Glocks we had issues were the 31's in 357 sig. Dumped them. What issues did you have? We switched to the gen3 31 in 2008. In 2018, we bought gen4 31s. Never had any issues. Even with sh!t ammo. In 2022, we switched to the 45 MOS-5 because Winchester didn't make any ammo and owed us ammo from 2019, 2020 and 2021 so we just gave up and switched. We're on a ten year replacement plan. I'll be retired before we change again. oh wait, we had one issue on a gen3 31 with the locking block pin breaking in half and walking out, but that officer shot a minimum of 200 rds a week and never changed his RSA. |
| A friend who I haven’t seen post here in a long while attended the FBI briefing on the Gen 5 Glocks. The choices made while making it were driven by a demand for more longevity, more accuracy, and greater parts compatibility across the fleet. You see that in the product, how as the guns change size the pins and locking block and everything except the barrel and recoil spring don’t change, and taken to the extreme with the 47 that gets a longer barrel but shares an RSA with the 19. It’s supposed to be the longest lived gun you can buy in terms of small parts. They didn’t say (or it wasn’t related to me) what the lifespan of the 9mm guns are, except that with small parts replacement the major parts weren’t supposed to be an issue in practice. Apparently the FBI was replacing small parts in low four digit intervals and replacing frames and ultimately guns before 10k when they were using 40 caliber. Glocks in 40 are an abomination before God. There’s a reason the Gen 5 40 caliber is quite different. |