[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Gold vs. Machine Gun for SHTF? (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 7/15/2009 12:33:48 PM EDT
Which should I get for SHTF, 12 oz. of Gold or a Transferable Machine Gun? 
Machine Gun Pros: 1: It's Cool. 2: I've always wanted one. 3: It may go up in value. 4: A weapon will always be useful. Cons: 1: If the ban gets over-turned or the country self-destructs it will lose it's 'monetary' value. 2: It's a lot of money for just one gun. Gold Pros: 1: It will have value if the economy gets worse. 2: It will have value in other countries if I have to leave the USA. 3: It's only 12 oz. so I can take it with me if I bug-out. Cons: 1: Our economy could get better and then it would lose value. 2: It could get so bad that the gold would become useless, i.e. you can't eat gold. |
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The Machine Gun!
New Con for the Gold Bugs: Gold could be seized like FDR did. Actually both would be pretty bad investments if things went to hell, but for right now, the machine gun would be more fun. In a real firefight, a semi is almost as good as full-auto. It might be better to buy (10) AR's instead of one M-16. |
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Why does everything have to be for SHTF?
Obviously for shtf, the answer is gold, or better yet, silver, or land. otoh, if you can afford a machine gun, and want one, why not just buy one? Every purchase does not have to be viewed through the SHTF prism. You are going to die within 5-50 years anyway. |
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Gold won't be losing value, particularly in any type of SHTF.
Correct though, you cannot eat it. There's not that much advantage of a machine gun over a good semi-auto. Can you afford to feed a spraying full auto? I say Gold of your choices. I'd go with ammo if you already have a solid semi-auto battle rifle. |
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honestly, if things ever get so bad we aren't using money here anymore, your gold won't really be worth anything either. what are you going to buy with a lump of gold that was worth $1000 BEFORE things went bad? how are you going to assess its' value, and divide it up to buy things you actually need, like bread, or chickens? if things are ever that bad, how are you planning to get to another COUNTRY, where gold MIGHT be worth something...? gold is a good hedge against inflation, but i [personally] don't see it as a SHTF currency. useable objects that are easily traded and transported will be worth much more. cartridges, foodstuffs, boots, ets. |
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Gold wont put food on your table. Its only worth what you and someone else agree its worth, the same with our current paper money. The MG will kill stuff, to kill with gold you will have to bludgeon people.
That being said. I would recommend you stocking up on food and ammo. Forget the gold. If you want an MG get it. |
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Quoted:
Why does everything have to be for SHTF? Obviously for shtf, the answer is gold, or better yet, silver. otoh, if you can afford a machine gun, and want one, why not just buy one? Every purchase does not have to be viewed through the SHTF prism. You are going to die within 5-50 years anyway. Because this is AR15.com. 
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The Machine Gun! New Con for the Gold Bugs: Gold could be seized like FDR did. No, it couldn't. At that time it was very common for people to store their gold in bank deposit boxes, and many many people owned precious metals and did so (back then, that's what cash was). Nowadays far fewer people do, and they don't store it as predictably. Gold is kind of an open question on confiscation, in that for a lot of the smaller pieces now in private hands, there is no paper trail of ownership (unlike any modern firearms). On the other hand, during "Depression v1.0" the science of discriminatory metal detectors was in its infancy, and was not useful. It is far more developed now. Government goons could conceivably sweep your house in just a few minutes (and without breaking everything open!) and find any gold you had hidden inside..... but I still doubt it would be a worthwhile effort with well over 99% of the population. After they got the lady's jewelry box, there's just not going to be much more to find. Actually both would be pretty bad investments if things went to hell, but for right now, the machine gun would be more fun.
In a real firefight, a semi is almost as good as full-auto. It might be better to buy (10) AR's instead of one M-16. Well, yea,,, that part is true. ;) ~ |
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In before pics of a gold MG  In true AR15.com fashion...  Get both. 
http://www.defencetalk.com/pictures/data/3186/medium/iraq_1811492_L.jpg /THREAD
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The Machine Gun! New Con for the Gold Bugs: Gold could be seized like FDR did. No, it couldn't. At that time it was very common for people to store their gold in bank deposit boxes, and many many people owned precious metals and did so (back then, that's what cash was). Nowadays far fewer people do, and they don't store it as predictably. Gold is kind of an open question on confiscation, in that for a lot of the smaller pieces now in private hands, there is no paper trail of ownership (unlike any modern firearms). On the other hand, during "Depression v1.0" the science of discriminatory metal detectors was in its infancy, and was not useful. It is far more developed now. Government goons could conceivably sweep your house in just a few minutes (and without breaking everything open!) and find any gold you had hidden inside..... but I still doubt it would be a worthwhile effort with well over 99% of the population. After they got the lady's jewelry box, there's just not going to be much more to find. Actually both would be pretty bad investments if things went to hell, but for right now, the machine gun would be more fun.
In a real firefight, a semi is almost as good as full-auto. It might be better to buy (10) AR's instead of one M-16. Well, yea,,, that part is true. ;) ~ Also to add, if you buy $10K or more in PM's, then you leave a paper trail. |
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Why does everything have to be for SHTF? Obviously for shtf, the answer is gold, or better yet, silver. If you can afford a machine gun, and want one, why not just buy one? Every purchase does not have to be viewed through the SHTF prism. You are going to die within 5-50 years anyway. Because this is AR15.com. Yeah, OK. Well from a survival prep perspective a legally transferable machine gun is one step up from getting your kitchen remodeled with new cultured marble counter tops. If you are really worried about SHTF in any sense, you would be better served spending the money on almost anything else. OTOH, there will always be people with excess wealth, and some of those people will always be interested in buying machine guns, so it should retain some value no matter what. You don't own an AR-15? WTF, OVER? Buy 9 new Colt AR15's. Shoot one and save the others for investments. Done. You may end the tread now. |
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MG is an investment and fun in good times.
If SHTF, ie end of rule of law, 15 minutes and a CoC violation makes a M16 out of almost any AR-15 so if planning on some serious combat it's retarded to shell out 10-15K for one gun. I have an A1 M16 because I can afford it....but if I couldn't or was fretting about it it's a waste of money comparatively. |
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Why does everything have to be for SHTF? Obviously for shtf, the answer is gold, or better yet, silver, or land. otoh, if you can afford a machine gun, and want one, why not just buy one? Every purchase does not have to be viewed through the SHTF prism. You are going to die within 5-50 years anyway. bullshit. 2012 is only 3 years away.
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gold is not useful in a true SHTF situation, starving people will not trade food for gold. gold only really shines in a situation where society still functions but there's hyperinflation of the currency.
that said, is a machine gun really all that much better than a semiauto carbine? I'd say 15k worth of ammo + several tier-1 AR-15s or very well made AKs is a far better choice ETA: also, don't forget to stock replacement extractors springs etc odds of numrich surviving the zombie apocalypse are not as good as you might think |
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gold is not useful in a true SHTF situation, starving people will not trade food for gold. gold only really shines in a situation where society still functions but there's hyperinflation of the currency. that said, is a machine gun really all that much better than a semiauto carbine? I'd say 15k worth of ammo + several tier-1 AR-15s or very well made AKs is a far better choice If I get the MG, I will also get at least 10k rounds of ammo for it, probably more... BTW I used to own 30+ firearms, over a dozen of those were EBR's.
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The Machine Gun! New Con for the Gold Bugs: Gold could be seized like FDR did. No, it couldn't. At that time it was very common for people to store their gold in bank deposit boxes, and many many people owned precious metals and did so (back then, that's what cash was). Nowadays far fewer people do, and they don't store it as predictably. Gold is kind of an open question on confiscation, in that for a lot of the smaller pieces now in private hands, there is no paper trail of ownership (unlike any modern firearms). On the other hand, during "Depression v1.0" the science of discriminatory metal detectors was in its infancy, and was not useful. It is far more developed now. Government goons could conceivably sweep your house in just a few minutes (and without breaking everything open!) and find any gold you had hidden inside..... but I still doubt it would be a worthwhile effort with well over 99% of the population. After they got the lady's jewelry box, there's just not going to be much more to find. Actually both would be pretty bad investments if things went to hell, but for right now, the machine gun would be more fun.
In a real firefight, a semi is almost as good as full-auto. It might be better to buy (10) AR's instead of one M-16. Well, yea,,, that part is true. ;) ~ Also to add, if you buy $10K or more in PM's, then you leave a paper trail. come on  we are smarter then that, buy a little at a time from diffrent sources, pay cash at the local pawn/coin shop ect. just don't break 5k at 1 place and your GTG
edit - personaly PM should only be considered after food/water/ firearms/ammo and other nessesary supplys have been aquired and stored. you also might consider silver as well as some gold |
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Depends on the SHTF event, now doesn't it.
Machine gun is only a good monetary investment if someone is willing to spend tons of money on one. An undocumented machine gun, on the other hand, is going to cost a shit-ton less than a registered one, and people seeking machine guns in the SHTF will likely be building or buying those rather than sending $200 to the ATF and asking to pretty please with sugar on top to get to own a used gun that's at least 23 years old and then spend thousands on it. Not that I'm saying you should be building and/or selling undocumented machine guns, you understand. I'm just saying that if you plan to sell it for money and are looking at it as a monetary investment, then the circumstances where that will occur are limited if there's some sort of SHTF scenario. Who's going to spend $15,000 on a machine gun when they're unemployed and trying not to lose the house or car and still feed their family, for instance?
A documented machine gun also has the problem of the feds knowing you have it. In the event they start confiscating machine guns, silencers, etc. they're going to know what you've got and whether or not you turned yours in. So in that sort of scenario, it's a liability. In a total TEOTWAWKI scenario where everything goes to shit and there's years of violence, corruption, and anarchy, that machine gun is going to look like a pretty sweet investment though, so long as you've got ammo for it. Gold, on the other hand, is a valuable commodity no matter what. Problem is, right now its value is high enough that it's not really worth buying any as an investment. Should've bought all your gold years ago. Silver's a good investment; it was cheap for a while, then it spiked in value dramatically a couple years ago (that's when everybody started selling instead of buying, making a tidy profit), then it went back down. Everybody who sold most or all of their silver when it was valuable then went and bought all their silver back after the value dropped and had their silver AND a shit-load of money. Now's a good time to get into silver, before it goes up again. If you're fleeing the country, precious metals are easier to take with you than a machine gun, especially since the overwhelming majority of countries have asshole gun laws. Of course, your precious metals could be a problem too, since some TSA goon will likely steal them whether or not the government has issued orders to confiscate all cash and precious metals from people fleeing the country. |
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Everyone seems to say "machine gun", but how hard is it to CoC violation your AR-15? You really want to pay $15,000 and have the government know you own it and where you live for a SHTF situation? I'll take gold, please. A lightning link requires no major tools (lathe, drill press, etc.) to make and takes literally seconds to install or remove from an AR-15. So long as the internal dimensions will accept one, anyway; modern Colts and other brands are designed so autosears and LL's can't be installed. If you have an AK, just buy the internals from a parts kit. All you need to do is drill a little hole and swap out the internals. And of course, if one were to do any basic research on people like Metral or Bill Holmes, they could find instructions on building machine guns and silencers from scratch. Even shoulder-fired recoilless launchers and claymores. Now, you of course have to ask yourself if it's worth the time in prison and loss of your rights to do any of that while there's still a government to prosecute you. Making sure you have the ability to do so if necessary, but not actually doing it, is perfectly legal and prudent. After all, if there's no more law enforcement or government to give a shit about machine guns, silencers, or bazookas, what's stopping you?
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Everyone seems to say "machine gun", but how hard is it to CoC violation your AR-15? You really want to pay $15,000 and have the government know you own it and where you live for a SHTF situation? I'll take gold, please. A lightning link requires no major tools (lathe, drill press, etc.) to make and takes literally seconds to install or remove from an AR-15. So long as the internal dimensions will accept one, anyway; modern Colts and other brands are designed so autosears and LL's can't be installed. If you have an AK, just buy the internals from a parts kit. All you need to do is drill a little hole and swap out the internals. And of course, if one were to do any basic research on people like Metral or Bill Holmes, they could find instructions on building machine guns and silencers from scratch. Even shoulder-fired recoilless launchers and claymores. Now, you of course have to ask yourself if it's worth the time in prison and loss of your rights to do any of that while there's still a government to prosecute you. Making sure you have the ability to do so if necessary, but not actually doing it, is perfectly legal and prudent. After all, if there's no more law enforcement or government to give a shit about machine guns, silencers, or bazookas, what's stopping you?I thought the ATF considers that 'constructive possession' of a machine gun? 
ETA: I can see it all now... Headline: BATFE raids home of libertarian extremist MEH, he is known to be a member of the infamous AR15.com.
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