Haenel CR223 German court orders recall and and destruction of sold units - Page 1

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Haenel CR223 German court orders recall and and destruction of sold units

Posted: 12/31/2022 7:22:29 PM EDT

I can see if they have to stop production after losing a lawsuit from HK for copyright infringement but how does a German court have the right to make you return something you legally bought? It's like the Volkswagen diesel mess.
https://www.overtdefense.com/2022/12/30/german-court-rules-haenel-must-recall-destroy-cr223s/

Anyone here have one? What are yall going to do?

Posted: 12/31/2022 7:26:15 PM EDT

[#1]

Did they ever import them here?

ETA NM, apparently they did, to the tune of $3099 a pop.

Buy one here.

Posted: 12/31/2022 7:34:49 PM EDT

[#2]

So you didn't read your own link?

Posted: 12/31/2022 7:37:51 PM EDT

[#3]

German government has been propping up HK for years.

Company is probably guilty, but beating out HK in a trial likely made things worse for them.

Posted: 12/31/2022 7:39:41 PM EDT

[#4]

Bolded part is the relevant bit:

“Due to the infringement of patent rights determined in the judgement, Haenel GmbH is not only obliged to [not] manufacture and sell the “Haenel CR 223? rifle, but also to destroy all rifles still in its possession, to ask its commercial customers to return rifles that have already been delivered in exchange for compensation, and to to provide the plaintiff with information about the profit made from the previous sale of the guns. On the basis of this information, the plaintiff can then assert claims for damages against the defendant.”

View Quote

Without having any knowledge of German laws or legal parlance, it reads as if Haenel is required to request any rifles they’ve sold be returned to them and that they must offer compensation for said return.

It does not appear to say any end users would be required to honor that request.

Even if it did, I’m not sure how a German court could have any hope of an order like that being obeyed or enforced internationally.

ETA: If I owned one, I’d lean heavily towards shipping it back for a refund. Not sure how large of a manufacturer Haenel is, but they’re about to be out a shit ton of money. That rifle looks like it has a fair amount of proprietary parts. I don’t think I’d want to hang on to a $2k firearm with no reliable source for replacement parts.

Posted: 12/31/2022 7:45:10 PM EDT

[#5]

Posted: 12/31/2022 7:47:12 PM EDT

[#6]

Weren’t these like 2k a couple months back?

Posted: 12/31/2022 7:47:18 PM EDT

[#7]

Quote History

Quoted:
German government has been propping up HK for years.

Company is probably guilty, but beating out HK in a trial likely made things worse for them.

View Quote

I’d venture a guess it made things 100x worse for them.

Contract bidding can get fucking ruthless and if you’re fairly small and trying to go up against a large contractor with a lengthy history of providing stuff to the government (aka have tentacles in everything), they will find a way to kick you into the dirt and keep you there.

Posted: 12/31/2022 8:20:55 PM EDT

[#8]

Quote History

Quoted:
Weren’t these like 2k a couple months back?

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Yeah bereli had them.

Posted: 12/31/2022 8:54:43 PM EDT

[#9]

Quote History

Quoted:

Yeah bereli had them.

View Quote

Looks like the still do, $2,199.

https://www.bereli.com/b-t-15-haenel-cr223-pistol-10-5-223-rem-5-56-x-45-mm-black/

Posted: 1/1/2023 1:00:30 AM EDT

[#10]

Quote History

Quoted:
Weren’t these like 2k a couple months back?

View Quote

https://www.bereli.com/b-t-15-haenel-cr223-pistol-10-5-223-rem-5-56-x-45-mm-black/

Posted: 1/1/2023 1:09:24 AM EDT

[#11]

Quote History

Quoted:
Weren't these like 2k a couple months back?

View Quote

I remember the RAL8000 Tan pistols being $1299 at one point, I was >< this close to buying one.

edit: this was also at Berelli's about 3 or 4 years ago.

Posted: 1/1/2023 1:15:25 AM EDT

[#12]

Quote History

Quoted:
Bolded part is the relevant bit:

Without having any knowledge of German laws or legal parlance, it reads as if Haenel is required to request any rifles they’ve sold be returned to them and that they must offer compensation for said return.

It does not appear to say any end users would be required to honor that request.

Even if it did, I’m not sure how a German court could have any hope of an order like that being obeyed or enforced internationally.

ETA: If I owned one, I’d lean heavily towards shipping it back for a refund. Not sure how large of a manufacturer Haenel is, but they’re about to be out a shit ton of money. That rifle looks like it has a fair amount of proprietary parts. I don’t think I’d want to hang on to a $2k firearm with no reliable source for replacement parts.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:
Bolded part is the relevant bit:

“Due to the infringement of patent rights determined in the judgement, Haenel GmbH is not only obliged to [not] manufacture and sell the “Haenel CR 223? rifle, but also to destroy all rifles still in its possession, to ask its commercial customers to return rifles that have already been delivered in exchange for compensation, and to to provide the plaintiff with information about the profit made from the previous sale of the guns. On the basis of this information, the plaintiff can then assert claims for damages against the defendant.”

Without having any knowledge of German laws or legal parlance, it reads as if Haenel is required to request any rifles they’ve sold be returned to them and that they must offer compensation for said return.

It does not appear to say any end users would be required to honor that request.

Even if it did, I’m not sure how a German court could have any hope of an order like that being obeyed or enforced internationally.

ETA: If I owned one, I’d lean heavily towards shipping it back for a refund. Not sure how large of a manufacturer Haenel is, but they’re about to be out a shit ton of money. That rifle looks like it has a fair amount of proprietary parts. I don’t think I’d want to hang on to a $2k firearm with no reliable source for replacement parts.

Investment gun. Ten years from now, that thing will be worth its weight in gold.

Posted: 1/1/2023 1:17:30 AM EDT

[#13]

Quote History

Quoted:
ETA: If I owned one, I’d lean heavily towards shipping it back for a refund. Not sure how large of a manufacturer Haenel is, but they’re about to be out a shit ton of money. That rifle looks like it has a fair amount of proprietary parts. I don’t think I’d want to hang on to a $2k firearm with no reliable source for replacement parts.

View Quote

Said no FAMAS owner ever in 2022.

Posted: 1/1/2023 1:22:53 AM EDT

[#14]

Pretty cool just not sure if I’m willing to shell out $2200 for a euro AR.

Posted: 1/1/2023 5:01:01 AM EDT

[#15]

Quote History

Quoted:

Said no FAMAS owner ever in 2022.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
ETA: If I owned one, I’d lean heavily towards shipping it back for a refund. Not sure how large of a manufacturer Haenel is, but they’re about to be out a shit ton of money. That rifle looks like it has a fair amount of proprietary parts. I don’t think I’d want to hang on to a $2k firearm with no reliable source for replacement parts.

Said no FAMAS owner ever in 2022.

I mean, that’s great and all, but I don’t think both scenarios are the same.

For one, the FAMAS was fairly unusual looking and in use with certain militaries. It had also become fairly iconic, with its presence in numerous video games and TV shows.

The rifle in this thread seems to be having its legs chopped off before it ever had the opportunity to do all that. It’s certainly not “iconic,” nor does it really have a presence in pop culture.

At the end of the day, it’s another run of the mill AR with some design cues that make it look like a 416. I’m sure you could find some people willing to pay extra money for it 20yrs down the road, but it doesn’t possess any of the qualities that lead to enormous popularity and large collector demand.

Just my $0.02