Posted: 3/19/2011 1:03:00 PM EDT
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Well, I finished up the first day of riding lessons - exercises 1-10. I don't feel I have enough practice for the tight slow turns, like the u-turns and offset cone weave. I had a lot of fun in the cornering exercise, just WOT in the straights, brake hard before the turn, etc... not too different from NASCAR in Bristol. But tomorrow is the written exam, exercises 11-17, skill eval, and the MI riding test. I'm not confident I have enough practice in just 1 day to pass the riding tests - how difficult is the actual riding exam? I think I was wasting too much time learning how to balance on a motorcycle. Once I understood where I needed to go and got a better feel of the bike, the controls were intuitive. It's just the actual handling of the bike that has me a bit concerned. The bikes we used were absolute shit. A Honda CB125T I had made my hips hurt because I felt like a giant riding on a kid's tricycle, and there was no room for my size 12 ACU boots to fit the gearshift or rear brake pedal intuitively. For those that went through the BRC, what can I expect on the last day? I've got a good feel for the basic controls, but if you put me on a modern motorcycle I'm not sure I could handle one well at low speeds. Any tips on passing the riding test and written test? |
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The rider course is great and I highly recommend it to all new riders. they teach you a lot of the stuff that's counterintuitive or hard to figure out on your own. However I didn't really feel that the course alone qualifies someone to go riding. It's hard if you don't have your own bike but I'd been riding daily for about 2 months before my class (there was a long waiting list). I was the only person in the class to show up to the class on a motorcycle.
The riding exam isn't hard - you'll practice it a lot before you take it for real. Once you get your license you'll still need LOTS of practice. When I first got my bike, probably 70% of my riding for the first few months was parking lot practice and long easy rides on lesser traveled roads. Balance is easy once you figure out how much speed is necessary for a given angle. I know what you mean about the bikes being small. I'm 6'1 and at the time was about 300 pounds (lost quite a bit since then  ) and they had me on a 125cc Rebel. It was comical.
I'm not sure what you mean about the controls of a modern motorcycle. It's all the same. Fancy touring bikes have a lot of extra electronics and such but it all comes down to brakes, throttle, clutch, and shifter. The only thing I can suggest is more practice if you don't feel confident. |
Relax, you worry too much.  The test is easy. Not a single person in my class failed and there were some that probably should have. If you've got the basics down well enough, you'll pass. And don't freak out if you make a mistake. There's room for a few mistakes on the scorecard.
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I kind of felt that the books I read 2-3 months before did help, and I did a zen thing on the first day where I started from a fresh slate but related stuff that I read prior as much as I could. I did manage to buy a bike a few days before the BRC but I didn't ride it, just got familiar with it - that helped a lot. I know the BRC is designed for people with 0 experience, but I felt the pace was uneven - it is too fast at times and they're rushing us through - which is understandable due to their schedule and the # of students. But I'd benefit from a lot more practice. Do you recommend I take the Experienced Rider Course in the next few weeks or should I wait a few years? I'm looking for more opportunities to practice in controlled environments. |
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Quoted: I kind of felt that the books I read 2-3 months before did help, and I did a zen thing on the first day where I started from a fresh slate but related stuff that I read prior as much as I could. I did manage to buy a bike a few days before the BRC but I didn't ride it, just got familiar with it - that helped a lot. I know the BRC is designed for people with 0 experience, but I felt the pace was uneven - it is too fast at times and they're rushing us through - which is understandable due to their schedule and the # of students. But I'd benefit from a lot more practice. Do you recommend I take the Experienced Rider Course in the next few weeks or should I wait a few years? I'm looking for more opportunities to practice in controlled environments. It all depends on what kind of bike you have and what kind of riding you'll be doing. If you have a cruiser type then you may find that the experienced rider course will help you. If you have a sportbike or plan to get one, you'd be better off putting those resources toward a track day IMO. I learned more spending a few days at the track than I did in the MSF, in any book and in months of riding on public roads.
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No one in my class failed either, so i wouldn't worry too much about it. plus they practically give you the questions ahead of time.
the course is great though i learned quite a bit in a short period of time, I gained a lot of confidence and an appropriate amount of respect for my limitations and the dangers out there -Mike |
| The fear of losing your balance will fade, as you get more experience, and ride a bike your more comfortable on. Remember, you have two giant gyros underneath you for support. you'll do fine on the test, like others have said, I've never heard of any one failing an MSF course. |
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metro:
Whatever shortcomings you feel today will likely 'come together' sometime tomorrow. The BRC is supposed to be ex 1-9 on day one. Tomorrow , ex 10-17. Ex 10 involves the dreaded "box", with tight U turns and slow speed control. This freaks some people out but it is teh LEAST important skill of the entire course. Do not let it get to you. If you TOTALLY fuck it up you can still easily pass. The primary purpose of Ex 10 9the box) is a warmup exercise with reinforced clutch control for day two. It is NOT a life saving skill. Cannot coutnerwieght a bike at 3 MPH in the real world? fine! power walk the bike! While you do the remaining exercises continue to practice your earlier skills. Every start is a chance to practice a clean start. Every stop is a chance to practice both brakes, down shift, and left foot down first. Every perimeter corner is a chance to turn your head and practice clutch control. Your most imporant skills are (in no order): Swerving. You have not done it yet. Its actually VERY easy. Fear not. Maintain a reasonable speed and it works well. Braking: Use both brakes, down shift. You have opportunities to practice. Use them Cornering: Slow, look, press and roll. Turn your freakin head and LOOK. You have plenty of time to practice this too. Much of the practice on these is yet to come. You'll do these tomorrow. There is little if any 'trying to balance" the bike. If you are trying to balance it, you are working too hard. The bikes do not want to stabilize at 8 mph. However, 12 mph+ and they stay up naturally without effort. Any extra effort you put into 'balancing the bike" isn't helping, its fucking everything up. the ONLY time you "balance the bike" is coutnerwieghting in Ex 10 (the box) and the slow, tight perimeter corners. Stop whinning about the bike. that is a novice type excuse. Odds are there have been 200 or 300 other riders who have been successfull on that same bike. Question: Do you need to look down to find the brake or gas pedal in your car? Probably not. However, if you got in my car, would the pedals feel oddly placed for the first couple miles? Probably. However, after 30-40 miles odds are that it will feel natural. Ditto for the bike. Balls of the feet on the foot pegs, don't hand your heels on them. Move forward to shift/brake, then back to balls of the feet on the pegs. |
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Quoted:
Relax, you worry too much. The test is easy. Not a single person in my class failed and there were some that probably should have. If you've got the basics down well enough, you'll pass. And don't freak out if you make a mistake. There's room for a few mistakes on the scorecard. I think they pass everybody. They just want to teach you as much as they can for your own safety. The hardest part for me was remembering what I was supposed to be doing. I grew up on dirt bikes, so riding was easy for me though. |
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I had 2 different bikes so far. The first one everything was fine except the clutch would start to get firm to the point I could not fully disengage the clutch. My left hand was numb by the time I got off. The second bike, the ignition was fucked, neutral was MIA, and there was about 1/2"+ of freeplay for the throttle. It wasn't impossible, it was just a challenge to deal with these items, learn new skills, and do it in a short period of time all in the same time. By balancing the bike, I meant just being able to deal with having a 300 lb machine under your legs at stops or at very very low speeds. I have a tendency to stop where the bike will lean toward the right side causing me to put my right foot down first. Ex 10 wasn't too bad, learning the route was more of a challenge since the second box was a half-assed attempt at making a box - the lines weren't painted there, they just told us to go "there" and do the u-turns. It's an interesting experience so far. I just read through the MSF manual and will have the written exam, skill eval, and MI MOST tomorrow. I enrolled my dad in the same class (he used to ride 80cc 2-strokes back in the islands during the 70s) and he seems to enjoy it. He says the pace is too slow though  |
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Quoted: Quoted: Relax, you worry too much. The test is easy. Not a single person in my class failed and there were some that probably should have. If you've got the basics down well enough, you'll pass. And don't freak out if you make a mistake. There's room for a few mistakes on the scorecard. I think they pass everybody. They just want to teach you as much as they can for your own safety. The hardest part for me was remembering what I was supposed to be doing. I grew up on dirt bikes, so riding was easy for me though. I had plenty of experience when I took the course so it was pretty ho-hum for me too. They actually asked me to chill out during the cornering exercise, I was trying to get a knee down.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Relax, you worry too much.
The test is easy. Not a single person in my class failed and there were some that probably should have. If you've got the basics down well enough, you'll pass. And don't freak out if you make a mistake. There's room for a few mistakes on the scorecard. I think they pass everybody. They just want to teach you as much as they can for your own safety. The hardest part for me was remembering what I was supposed to be doing. I grew up on dirt bikes, so riding was easy for me though. They don't. At least good instructors wouldn't. Three people in my class failed. One failed badly enough that he would have had to repeat the course entirely. He had originally stated that his intent in taking the course was to find out if motorcycling was for him; so he decided it wasn't, and moved on. That's actually one of the good things about the MSF BRC - it allows people to see if they are cut out for riding or not in a controlled setting. (The other two students only failed by one or two points and were allowed to schedule a time in the following few days to re-take the test.) Also note that the exact skills tests may differ slightly between states, at least for states that accept the BRC for licensing. |
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Before I took the MSF class, I had never in my life touched a motorcycle, much less sat on one.
I passed the test on Day 2 with a perfect score. That should help put your mind at ease. Just trust your instructors. They will tell you exactly what will be on the test and they will allow you to practice until the majority of the group feels good about each exercise. |
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Quoted:
Relax, you worry too much. The test is easy. Not a single person in my class failed and there were some that probably should have. If you've got the basics down well enough, you'll pass. And don't freak out if you make a mistake. There's room for a few mistakes on the scorecard. This was my experience as well. |
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I passed the BRC and got my MSF card, but I still don't have a good grasp on the friction zone - I need to do this more smoothly but I didn't have enough time or constructive feedback to really practice properly. Overall, if I had to do this all over again I'd probably just find a way to practice enough to take and pass the state skills test, get my endorsement, and practice - then take one of these MSF courses to improve. As a beginner to bikes, I found it very frustrating to learn at a comfortable pace in the BRC since I had zero fundamentals built up PS: They failed 2 people in our group, I'm not sure about the other group. One person failed after the MI skills test, the other failed right after the skill evaluation. They refused to let him take the MI skills test, which I thought was a joke. |
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Congrats on passing! Now go find a nice parking lot and practice!
Sorry you were disappointed with your experience in the course. It's possible that you just got a bad set of teachers; everyone I've known who has taken it has really gotten something out of it. |
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Just a FYI- the instructors generally are doing what they are required to do. Each exercise has a certain amount of time devoted to it, so if you feel like its dragging along or you didn't get enough time, that's just part of it. I know an instructor or two, and they generally go out of their way and do more than they have to, to get people to be safe, learn, have fun, and succeed in general.
As far as the bikes, all that stuff costs money, and a lot of it. I'm sure the instructors, administrators, mechanics, hell everybody would like to have nice new bikes. So you aren't alone, but there are a lot of worse options to learn on. Speaking of money, here in Illinois the class is FREE. You must pay a $20 deposit to reserve a seat (no deposit if you show up as a walk-in) but if you complete the course you can choose to have that refunded to you, or donate it to the program. |
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Good to hear you passed, Metro. When I took the BRC, I definitely didn't feel rushed. I did wish everyone else in the class would go faster, tho! We were doing the long oval to practice going into curves and such, and I wanted to go FASTER. I was the only one in the class to scrape a peg... and I did it twice.
You mention the friction zone, so I'm guessing you don't have much experience operating a manual transmission? I learned to drive a car in the ol' family station wagon - a bigass orange AMC hornet with power NOTHING and a three-on-the-tree manual transmission. I stalled it a few times before I got the hang of it. Since then out of about a dozen cars I've owned, 2 have been automatics. We had a woman in our class - a rather nice looking hispanic woman who showed up in an E class Mercedes - who simply couldn't grasp the concept and left early the first day. AFAIK, the organization that did the course will do some 1 on 1 for free for students who have difficulty. I had fun... someday I need to do the advanced course. I'm finding that low speed maneuvering on my 700lb + beast needs work! |
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Quoted: Good to hear you passed, Metro. When I took the BRC, I definitely didn't feel rushed. I did wish everyone else in the class would go faster, tho! We were doing the long oval to practice going into curves and such, and I wanted to go FASTER. I was the only one in the class to scrape a peg... and I did it twice. You mention the friction zone, so I'm guessing you don't have much experience operating a manual transmission? I learned to drive a car in the ol' family station wagon - a bigass orange AMC hornet with power NOTHING and a three-on-the-tree manual transmission. I stalled it a few times before I got the hang of it. Since then out of about a dozen cars I've owned, 2 have been automatics. We had a woman in our class - a rather nice looking hispanic woman who showed up in an E class Mercedes - who simply couldn't grasp the concept and left early the first day. AFAIK, the organization that did the course will do some 1 on 1 for free for students who have difficulty. I had fun... someday I need to do the advanced course. I'm finding that low speed maneuvering on my 700lb + beast needs work! I was ready to pass in the cornering exercise and slaloms, it was a lot of fun for sure! I had trouble with the friction zone on the bikes during the first part of the class. I own 2 cars with manual transmissions, but those are dry clutches and the only time I use the friction zone is for slowly (less than 5 mph) parking/reversing. As soon as I can keep the car moving above 5 MPH, the clutch is fully engaged. With the bike, I had 0 experience with any of the controls and had to adapt multiple concepts simultaneously. Of course the idea is simple and the same as a car but it is hard to adapt when the throttle response is all over the place or the handgrip is getting stuck - then I have to mix in the U-Turn/Figure 8 box. By the time I finished the skills test, I had a good grasp of it but I'd feel more comfortable practicing this a lot more. |
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friction zone messes a LOT of people up.
Many people think a bike clutch is like a car clutch. they try to engage/disengage rapidly since they don't want to "ride the clutch". This is bad. A bike clutch is not like a car clutch. unless you are riding one of a few bikes with a dry clutch (some BMW and Ducati come to mind) the clutch is in an oil bath. You will not hurt it. the clutch is NOT an on/off switch. If is meant to me "ridden". It helps to think of the clutch much like a soda bottle, full of vigorously shaken soda. If you grasp the cap and twist it of rapidly, you will end up hosed. Same for motorcycle clutch. Release it too quickly and you get hosed. If that soda is freshly shaken, how do you get the cap off without wearing teh contents? Simple: Twist the cap off slowly. As the gasses release you can gauge your prorgress. If all is okay you can continue to slowly ease the cap off. If somethingg goes wrong (akin to bubbles racing to the cap) you can squeeze the clutch (or in this case, twist the cap back on). friction zone will vary from bike to bike. No problem. get on te bike, start it up, and place in first gear. Do the rock and roll exercise: Leave feet on ground. Ease clutch out just enough that the clutch partially engages and puills the bike forrward slowly about 8 to 12 inches. Then pull in clutch just enough to disenege (about 1/4 inch). Roll the bike backwards (helps if you do this facing up hill on gentle grade). Slowly ease back out that same 1/4 inch so clutch partially engages and pulls bike forward again. Disengage abd roll back. repeat often. This exercize really helps reinforce friction zone. Helps a lot if you do NOT fully disengage the clutch (dont pull all the way in). Just sort of stay of either side of the threshold, engaging and disengaging. Once you've done that, practice more starts and slow speed stuff. For starts, release clutch until friction zone partially engages and then SLOWLY release the rest of the way out. It should take several seconds, gradually working through the enire friction zone (sort of like having that coke bottle partially open for ten seconds while the excess pressure bleeds off in one long 'hiiiisssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss".). Fro (rider coach) |