Posted: 10/27/2011 4:39:45 AM EDT
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I may be taking part in a formal handgun evaluation in late November. What features do you look for in a handgun for LE use? |
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Sorry if my response is not appropriate seeing that I am in the civilian sector but a former FFL and SOT.
1) Reliability (has to go bang when the trigger is pulled) 2) Lighter weight 3) Inexpensive replacement parts 4) Ease of use and function 5) Accuracy 6) Easy maintenance 7) Night sights 8) Comfortable ergonomic 9) Readily available accessories (holsters lights etc) Hope that helps a little |
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Amongst other things posted:
*Availability of support for warranty issues and armorer training. *Caliber selection (consider testing for new duty ammo when you test for the gun, as nothing sucks more than to find out that your issue ammo shoots only so-so out of your new gun). *Firearm finish (very important if the gun used in a humid climate). If you can swing it, get some people from the agency to shoot and provide feedback on the prospective weapons. This should be a mix of seasoned and newer officers, gun savy officers and regular joes, and male and female officers whose hand size and body types differ. Alot of agencies have started doing this and the troops seem happy with issue gun when they have had some input in the process. Also seems to limit the "rumors" about why a gun was chosen etc. When everything is said and done, statistically I imagine it will be some type of Glock 
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| Even though we carry Glocks and I love them, there's a lot to be said for the Smith M&P's too. Never shot one myself but I hear they are getting rave reviews. Don't exclude anything. Another local agency just recently (within the last 2 years) did switch to the M&P and their officers love them over what they had. I think in the T&E stage it'll be a toss-up between the two. |
| Thanks for the replies so far. They reflect what I've already come up with so that's promising. I want to be sure I haven't left anything out. The evaluation is part of a larger one run by the Met Police, inviting other forces to participate. We plan to send a newbie and an old hand to get some perspective. |
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Quoted:
Even though we carry Glocks and I love them, there's a lot to be said for the Smith M&P's too. Never shot one myself but I hear they are getting rave reviews. Don't exclude anything. Another local agency just recently (within the last 2 years) did switch to the M&P and their officers love them over what they had. I think in the T&E stage it'll be a toss-up between the two. We switched to M&P's in 2009 and have had a ton of issues with them. We had to have all of our magazines replaced due to faulty followers/ feed lips and have had rust issues on about 50% of the slides and sights. Granted: we switched from Smith 4046's so they are still a huge improvement. |
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I suppose it depends on the mission.
One of my personal evaluations that is on going is a survival pistol. That generally comes down to a .22 (a brick of .22 weighs practically nothing). Accuracy is essential, of course, as well as reliability, but one of the big things which currently fails just about everything is that it has to be able to be used one handed, from cocking to firing to magazine insertion and reloading. After all, it does not seem unreasonable that in a crash, one might end up with one arm in a sling. What's your mission? Consider the aspects, the possible scenarios in such, and build your requirements from there. After all........ If one is evaluating a pistol to be used in the tundra, a 1911 can place one at a severe disadvantage as compared to a USP (size of the trigger guard when considering that one could be wearing heavy gloves). ________________________________________________________ ("What's the drill?"––Croft, (w,stte), BSG (classic), "The Gun on Ice Planet Zero") |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Even though we carry Glocks and I love them, there's a lot to be said for the Smith M&P's too. Never shot one myself but I hear they are getting rave reviews. Don't exclude anything. Another local agency just recently (within the last 2 years) did switch to the M&P and their officers love them over what they had. I think in the T&E stage it'll be a toss-up between the two. We switched to M&P's in 2009 and have had a ton of issues with them. We had to have all of our magazines replaced due to faulty followers/ feed lips and have had rust issues on about 50% of the slides and sights. Granted: we switched from Smith 4046's so they are still a huge improvement. Really. Good to know. The agency I mentioned also switched from 4046's. My agency also tested the M&P when we found out the late-model GEN 3 GLOCKS's we had just upgraded to were crap. However, GLOCK agreed to replace them all with GEN 4's for free, and it would have cost big money to go to M&P's, which we had just spent 11 months prior to get the new GLOCKS in the first place. Not to mention everyone would have had to buy new holsters too. BTW, the feed issues we were having disappeared with the GEN 4's, and we got the adjustable backstraps. No KB's that I know of, either. 
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Even though we carry Glocks and I love them, there's a lot to be said for the Smith M&P's too. Never shot one myself but I hear they are getting rave reviews. Don't exclude anything. Another local agency just recently (within the last 2 years) did switch to the M&P and their officers love them over what they had. I think in the T&E stage it'll be a toss-up between the two. We switched to M&P's in 2009 and have had a ton of issues with them. We had to have all of our magazines replaced due to faulty followers/ feed lips and have had rust issues on about 50% of the slides and sights. Granted: we switched from Smith 4046's so they are still a huge improvement. Really. Good to know. The agency I mentioned also switched from 4046's. My agency also tested the M&P when we found out the late-model GEN 3 GLOCKS's we had just upgraded to were crap. However, GLOCK agreed to replace them all with GEN 4's for free, and it would have cost big money to go to M&P's, which we had just spent 11 months prior to get the new GLOCKS in the first place. Not to mention everyone would have had to buy new holsters too. BTW, the feed issues we were having disappeared with the GEN 4's, and we got the adjustable backstraps. No KB's that I know of, either. Rumor has it we are switching to G22 Gen 4's when the lease expires on our m&p's. We already have the option to buy and use our own Glock's but I wouldn't object to having another one laying around. |
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Quoted: I suppose it depends on the mission. One of my personal evaluations that is on going is a survival pistol. That generally comes down to a .22 (a brick of .22 weighs practically nothing). Accuracy is essential, of course, as well as reliability, but one of the big things which currently fails just about everything is that it has to be able to be used one handed, from cocking to firing to magazine insertion and reloading. After all, it does not seem unreasonable that in a crash, one might end up with one arm in a sling. What's your mission? Consider the aspects, the possible scenarios in such, and build your requirements from there. After all........ If one is evaluating a pistol to be used in the tundra, a 1911 can place one at a severe disadvantage as compared to a USP (size of the trigger guard when considering that one could be wearing heavy gloves). ________________________________________________________ ("What's the drill?"––Croft, (w,stte), BSG (classic), "The Gun on Ice Planet Zero") Good point....single handed operation. I missed that one thanks.  |
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Quoted:
Even though we carry Glocks and I love them, there's a lot to be said for the Smith M&P's too. Never shot one myself but I hear they are getting rave reviews. Don't exclude anything. Another local agency just recently (within the last 2 years) did switch to the M&P and their officers love them over what they had. I think in the T&E stage it'll be a toss-up between the two. I've had a S&W M&P40 now for about a year. This is after 4 years of Glock. I have TRIED to find fault with it, but I can't. It's a fantastic pistol. |
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Quoted:
Not sure about the whole range being looked at but we are expecting: SIG, H&K, Beretta, maybe CZ, Walther........oddly enough Glock aren't playing. Maybe they are supremely confident, already having @80% of the UK LE market.. They probably had that much of the US market not to long ago. Not anymore. And don't forget price. If you pick something that's twice the price of the next competitor, well, good luck with your administrators. |
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IN THIS ORDER:
1. Reliable 2. Accurate 3. Ergonomic 4. Ease of Use/Cleaning 5. Comes in popular LEO calibers (.40, 9mm, 45 auto) I prefer to have every trigger pull the same (ie: DAO, or SA), but not everyone is like this.... there should be separate sections for DAO and Double/Single. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Not sure about the whole range being looked at but we are expecting: SIG, H&K, Beretta, maybe CZ, Walther........oddly enough Glock aren't playing. Maybe they are supremely confident, already having @80% of the UK LE market.. They probably had that much of the US market not to long ago. Not anymore. And don't forget price. If you pick something that's twice the price of the next competitor, well, good luck with your administrators. Price will always be a factor. more so these days, particulalrly as we put new frames on all the Glocks last year................I get the impression there are larger forces at work. Last year, because of the Active Shooter concern, any Force that didn't already have .223 carbines, got free HK G36C's............. |
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Dont do all of the work yourself. You may want to contact other agencies and get their reports. it may alert you to things to watch for.
Remember. Lowest Common Denominator. non-"gun" people will have to be able to use this. But remember train will solve many issues as well. (ie.. dont be afraid of manual safetys, DA/SA, ect...) I would love to be able to carry my CZ. |
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Quoted: All forces are invited to participate, but I don't know at this stage how many will. I imagine it will be done by a number of regional presentations where local forces will get together.Dont do all of the work yourself. You may want to contact other agencies and get their reports. it may alert you to things to watch for. Remember. Lowest Common Denominator. non-"gun" people will have to be able to use this. But remember train will solve many issues as well. (ie.. dont be afraid of manual safetys, DA/SA, ect...) I would love to be able to carry my CZ. I know what you mean about the 'non-gun' people. That would be most of our officers, and the instructional staff!, which is why they are letting the dept. gun nut do it!..
 . Why would we be afraid of manual safeties,etc.? |
| Do like our Department does, torture test a bunch of different models and if they make the cut, approve them. Set a standardized set of rules minimum barrel length DA/SA or safe action, caliber requirement etc... That way not everyone is forced to conform to a firearm they aren't comfortable with. For the life of me I can't shoot a .40 cal glock thank god I'm not forced to carry one. This solution allows each officer to choose and purchase a firearm that they feel most comfortable with. |
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Quoted:
I know what you mean about the 'non-gun' people. That would be most of our officers, and the instructional staff!, which is why they are letting the dept. gun nut do it!..
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Hey - make a note of this date in history: An agency selected someone that actually had knowedge, experience and an interest in the topic to take point on a purchasing issue. If that ever happened around here, I think I'd be expecting to see four guys on horse asking for directions or a guy with horns and a pitchfork on ice skates offering me a sno-cone.
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Quoted: Quoted: I know what you mean about the 'non-gun' people. That would be most of our officers, and the instructional staff!, which is why they are letting the dept. gun nut do it!.. . Hey - make a note of this date in history: An agency selected someone that actually had knowedge, experience and an interest in the topic to take point on a purchasing issue. If that ever happened around here, I think I'd be expecting to see four guys on horse asking for directions or a guy with horns and a pitchfork on ice skates offering me a sno-cone. Well two out of three is quite good for us. Funnily enough, today I was granted access to a national knowledge/experience secure website dealing with UK Police firearms issues. Should I buy tinfoil.......? |
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Since not everyone's hand is the same size, the suggestion to get small and large males and females on the force to try them out is very important. My PD did that and evaluated both the .40S&W and .45ACP . . . hands down the officers chose the .45ACP. They ended up migrating from Sig 229 & 239 in .40S&W to S&W M&P 45 and love them . . . and qual scores took a large jump too. There was a rust issue on mags and S&W replaced all of them for the PD, no charge. I've noticed two small spots of rust on one of my M&P 9c mags that has sat in a mag case for 2+ years, but a quick call to S&W and they'll replace it. It's not a functional issue, so I haven't bothered to make that call yet. |