Posted: 8/5/2009 7:23:53 PM EDT
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I would like to start of by saying that I am a college student and don't really know anything about the world and how it works. Alright now that that is out of the way, there has been a lot of talk lately among me and my classmates about the Obama HELLthcare. Pretty much everyone agrees that the .gov isn't capable of running anything correctly. However one dude said we should implement a system like the Europeans. He said that everyone is required to have health insurance and insurance companies were required to insure people. IE no disqualifications for prior health conditions. Like I said, I really don't know much about inner-workings of social-economic issues. Would this work or is it another one of those ideas were the lazy ride on the backs of the hardworking? What saith ARfcom? ARnutt |
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That's how they do things in holland and iirc it has worked well there.
I'd just as soon have no welfare component at all, but that isn't going to happen here. End employer coverage, individual purchase only + mandated purchase + no underwriting / pre-ex (i.e. guaranteed issue) + sell across state lines/less regulation of rates + elimination of mandated benefits + vouchers for the "poor" who can't afford a basic catastrophic plan would be an amazing improvement over what we have now. |
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Europe has a bunch of different countries. Which ones did he say had the system he was advocating?  LOL
Yeah, I realized that. He really doesn't designate one country. I am not really educated in politics so I try to stay out of political discussions. That and I have to take classes with this group of guys for the next two years so i'm trying not to make enemies. |
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That's how they do things in holland and iirc it has worked well there. I'd just as soon have no welfare component at all, but that isn't going to happen here. End employer coverage, individual purchase only + mandated purchase + no underwriting / pre-ex (i.e. guaranteed issue) + sell across state lines/less regulation of rates + elimination of mandated benefits + vouchers for the "poor" who can't afford a basic catastrophic plan would be an amazing improvement over what we have now. . The reason the US has healthcare costs that have sky rocketed is solely due to access to easy money through the Medicare and Medicaid programs. The consumer has no incentive to save money, and the provider has no incentive to reduce costs. Add fraud, waste, and abuse on top on the part of providers and consumers, plus a powerful insurance industry lobby and you get the mess we have now. No one has the right to health care that is funded by theft of my labor. You're a flipping moron to believe that the US will be better off with another layer of socialism piled on top of the burden the productive citizens of this country are carrying right now. |
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Government just needs to butt the fuck out and let market take care of itself. Healthcare wouldn't be so fucked if government wasn't as involved as it is.
I have to ask this. If its not socialized healthcare you're asking for, but its a good idea to require people to have it who pays for it ? Oh you're going to force people to buy their own coverage ? Have you looked and seen how much that can cost ? I would be working every moment and just barely scrap by and be able to pay a premium. It would crush me and I'd never be able to save for a better life ( college, house, etc ) There are millions like me. Just leave it alone, let an individual pay for the health care he wants. |
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That's how they do things in holland and iirc it has worked well there. I'd just as soon have no welfare component at all, but that isn't going to happen here. End employer coverage, individual purchase only + mandated purchase + no underwriting / pre-ex (i.e. guaranteed issue) + sell across state lines/less regulation of rates + elimination of mandated benefits + vouchers for the "poor" who can't afford a basic catastrophic plan would be an amazing improvement over what we have now. **** ***. The reason the US has healthcare costs that have sky rocketed is solely due to access to easy money through the Medicare and Medicaid programs. The consumer has no incentive to save money, and the provider has no incentive to reduce costs. Add fraud, waste, and abuse on top on the part of providers and consumers, plus a powerful insurance industry lobby and you get the mess we have now. No one has the right to health care that is funded by theft of my labor. You're a flipping moron to believe that the US will be better off with another layer of socialism piled on top of the burden the productive citizens of this country are carrying right now. sure, a completely free market would be better. how likely are we to get that after decades of commie indoctrination? also, nice personal attack. |
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Government just needs to butt the fuck out and let market take care of itself. Healthcare wouldn't be so fucked if government wasn't as involved as it is. I have to ask this. If its not socialized healthcare you're asking for, but its a good idea to require people to have it who pays for it ? Oh you're going to force people to buy their own coverage ? Have you looked and seen how much that can cost ? I would be working every moment and just barely scrap by and be able to pay a premium. It would crush me and I'd never be able to save for a better life ( college, house, etc ) There are millions like me. Just leave it alone, let an individual pay for the health care he wants. under the scheme I outlined premiums would plummet. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Europe has a bunch of different countries. Which ones did he say had the system he was advocating? LOL Yeah, I realized that. He really doesn't designate one country. I am not really educated in politics so I try to stay out of political discussions. That and I have to take classes with this group of guys for the next two years so i'm trying not to make enemies. |
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That's how they do things in holland and iirc it has worked well there. I'd just as soon have no welfare component at all, but that isn't going to happen here. End employer coverage, individual purchase only + mandated purchase + no underwriting / pre-ex (i.e. guaranteed issue) + sell across state lines/less regulation of rates + elimination of mandated benefits + vouchers for the "poor" who can't afford a basic catastrophic plan would be an amazing improvement over what we have now. **** ***. The reason the US has healthcare costs that have sky rocketed is solely due to access to easy money through the Medicare and Medicaid programs. The consumer has no incentive to save money, and the provider has no incentive to reduce costs. Add fraud, waste, and abuse on top on the part of providers and consumers, plus a powerful insurance industry lobby and you get the mess we have now. No one has the right to health care that is funded by theft of my labor. You're a flipping moron to believe that the US will be better off with another layer of socialism piled on top of the burden the productive citizens of this country are carrying right now. sure, a completely free market would be better. how likely are we to get that after decades of commie indoctrination? also, nice personal attack. That wasn't a personal attack. That was an outburst at a proposal that digs us in deeper. |
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We should go to customer PAYS ALL. Then, you FILE A CLAIM and you MIGHT get coverage. This bullshit that some third party pays for all but a copay is why too many people go to the doctor for hangnails. When the CUSTOMER pays and the DOCTOR provides the service, the free market will adapt. Health care is a right? How about FOOD? You can live a long time without the need for health care. But you won't live longer than a month without food. Same with water yet people still pay their water bills, drill wells, collect rain or make daily trips to the watering hole. Be wary of the government that supplies everything for they then have the power to take everything from you. |
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That's how they do things in holland and iirc it has worked well there. I'd just as soon have no welfare component at all, but that isn't going to happen here. End employer coverage, individual purchase only + mandated purchase + no underwriting / pre-ex (i.e. guaranteed issue) + sell across state lines/less regulation of rates + elimination of mandated benefits + vouchers for the "poor" who can't afford a basic catastrophic plan would be an amazing improvement over what we have now. **** ***. The reason the US has healthcare costs that have sky rocketed is solely due to access to easy money through the Medicare and Medicaid programs. The consumer has no incentive to save money, and the provider has no incentive to reduce costs. Add fraud, waste, and abuse on top on the part of providers and consumers, plus a powerful insurance industry lobby and you get the mess we have now. No one has the right to health care that is funded by theft of my labor. You're a flipping moron to believe that the US will be better off with another layer of socialism piled on top of the burden the productive citizens of this country are carrying right now. sure, a completely free market would be better. how likely are we to get that after decades of commie indoctrination? also, nice personal attack. That wasn't a personal attack. That was an outburst at a proposal that digs us in deeper. How would it dig us in deeper than the multi-trillion unfunded medicare liability already has us? |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: That's how they do things in holland and iirc it has worked well there. I'd just as soon have no welfare component at all, but that isn't going to happen here. End employer coverage, individual purchase only + mandated purchase + no underwriting / pre-ex (i.e. guaranteed issue) + sell across state lines/less regulation of rates + elimination of mandated benefits + vouchers for the "poor" who can't afford a basic catastrophic plan would be an amazing improvement over what we have now. **** ***. The reason the US has healthcare costs that have sky rocketed is solely due to access to easy money through the Medicare and Medicaid programs. The consumer has no incentive to save money, and the provider has no incentive to reduce costs. Add fraud, waste, and abuse on top on the part of providers and consumers, plus a powerful insurance industry lobby and you get the mess we have now. No one has the right to health care that is funded by theft of my labor. You're a flipping moron to believe that the US will be better off with another layer of socialism piled on top of the burden the productive citizens of this country are carrying right now. sure, a completely free market would be better. how likely are we to get that after decades of commie indoctrination? also, nice personal attack. That wasn't a personal attack. That was an outburst at a proposal that digs us in deeper. How would it dig us in deeper than the multi-trillion unfunded medicare liability already has us? Think about serving free beer. And everyone knows it. Beer would become very expensive. Scarcity sets prices. You want to make an item or service cheaper, increase the supply. The obamacare does NOTHING with supply, ergo, it cannot work. |
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You decide to go into business......you want to sell widgets.
You do some market research, determine a reasonable price for your product, and open up shop. One day, the government comes in and tells you that from now on you are required to sell to everyone who walks through the door...regardless of whether or not they can afford the product. If they dont have enough money you need to eat the difference and make the product available to them.....because your widget is now considered a "right". You protest...wondering why you should have to take a loss. You are told that this is how its done in Europe. Widgets.....insurance policies...MRI's.... See where I am going with this? |
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That's how they do things in holland and iirc it has worked well there. I'd just as soon have no welfare component at all, but that isn't going to happen here. End employer coverage, individual purchase only + mandated purchase + no underwriting / pre-ex (i.e. guaranteed issue) + sell across state lines/less regulation of rates + elimination of mandated benefits + vouchers for the "poor" who can't afford a basic catastrophic plan would be an amazing improvement over what we have now. **** ***. The reason the US has healthcare costs that have sky rocketed is solely due to access to easy money through the Medicare and Medicaid programs. The consumer has no incentive to save money, and the provider has no incentive to reduce costs. Add fraud, waste, and abuse on top on the part of providers and consumers, plus a powerful insurance industry lobby and you get the mess we have now. No one has the right to health care that is funded by theft of my labor. You're a flipping moron to believe that the US will be better off with another layer of socialism piled on top of the burden the productive citizens of this country are carrying right now. sure, a completely free market would be better. how likely are we to get that after decades of commie indoctrination? also, nice personal attack. That wasn't a personal attack. That was an outburst at a proposal that digs us in deeper. How would it dig us in deeper than the multi-trillion unfunded medicare liability already has us? Think about serving free beer. And everyone knows it. Beer would become very expensive. Scarcity sets prices. You want to make an item or service cheaper, increase the supply. The obamacare does NOTHING with supply, ergo, it cannot work. I asked about how the plot I outlined would be worse than medicare/medicaid. Not how obunger care compared. The plan I outlined is pretty much what milton friedman proposed years a go as a compromise with the "everyone must be covered" crowd (recognizing that while a true free market would be best it is unlikely to be passed). |